Bloomberg says “an explosives-laden truck blew up at the Marriott’s front gate, creating a 6 meter (20 foot) deep crater at the main entrance and sparking a fire that burned through the building for hours. More than one metric ton (2,200 pounds) of explosives was used in the device, GEO TV reported, without saying where it got the information. The detonation was heard 30 kilometers (18 miles) away in neighboring Rawalpindi. ” That’s what happened.
As to why it happened…
Fascist Islam striking at the “moral decadence” of the west by “morally” murdering unarmed civilians.
In the game of broadcasting one’s moralist one-upmanship, fundamentalist Islam’s symbolism approximates the act of fornicating for the cause of chastity.
Mr. Belmont is a master spinner, but a little too uninformed to pull it off.
“In any case, the finger of blame must always point to America. Pakistan’s Interior Minister, according to Bloomberg, believed there was “a possibility of involvement by foreign elements in this attack”, and that “sophisticated weapons have been smuggled into Pakistan from Afghanistan””
How is he blaming America? He is pointing a finger at Afghanistan which is hardly surprising given the blame games the two nations have been playing for the past two years. Theres a common joke in the subcontinent- all bomb blasts are caused by the intelligence agencies of the other nation. India’s RAW and Pakistan’s ISI are always the kneejerk culprits in bomb blasts in their enemies’ countries. Always.
I don’t see the blame America angle in here, despite Belmont’s best efforts. Its more a matter of Frankenstein waking up than anything else, and few, if any, in Pakistan’s upper echelons will argue otherwise, especially after yesterday.
This signals a very major shift in Pakistan – benign neglect is out, open confrontation is in.
Why do they hate themselves so? I am not sure what the author is getting at. But to put it mildly, if the terrorists were trying to just kill anybody, they would have put that bomb smack in the middle of the many bazaars in the region. A detonation of this magnitude would have devastating consequences there, and it would scare the hell out of the common man who frequents those bazaars.
This bomb was aimed at the elite – deliberately. Elites don’t go to bazaars (they send their domestic help to do their shopping). Elites go to five star hotels to celebrate iftar. They were the target. The question now is – how will they react? Benign neglect is no longer an option.
Incidentally, President Zardari has been certified as being mentally unfit to stand trial in a Swiss court (on corruption charges) by a New York based Psychiatrist. A strange and scary world, we live in.
Will the Army step in? Not yet, but you can bet they are going to be pivotal in the very near future. Pakistan elites are going to have to hammer out a real solution now. Or their family members will be targetted. Ten years after celebratinng their successes in Kashmir and Afghanistan, Pakistans leaders are between a rock and a hard place.Its become their problem too.
Why should Islamists bother trying to obtain nuclear weapons, when they can get themselves a country that has nuclear weapons?
As I read it somewhere else, the border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan is basically an ungovernable region. The Elites down in the lowland have always implemented ‘solutions’ to keep the tribes up there against each other. Most of these ‘solutions’ are brain child of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). Taliban is one of those solution. Now, those solution is coming back to hit the lowland.
“An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.”
Sir Winston Churchill
Perhaps the forgotten corollary, is that you do not negotiate with a metric tonne of explosives.
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
BigFire,
The NWFP and FATA – the ungovernable regions – have always had a testy relationship with the center – which again goes back to Pakistan’s creation. Both these regions were home to groups that had no interest in being a part of Pakistan – indeed most of them did not support the idea of Pakistan.
The center has always tried to control them, somtimes by playing them off each other. The Taleban issue started when the Rabbani governments challenged Pakistan on the Durand line (1993-94), demanding that it be renegotiated. The Durand line was based on an agreement between the British and the Afghan King at the time. Pakistans solution was to send in the Taleban to replace the Rabbani government, which is better known as the Northern Alliance.
The impact in the ‘lowlands’ was exacerbated, but not started by this. Southern Pakistan has a large number of Shiaas. By the late 1990s, the city of Karachi was the scene of considerable violence between the Sunni groups and the Shiaa groups (Sipah e Sabha, IIRC). This rivalry has been there since the beginning but it really took off in the 1980s, during Zias rule, and went out of control in the 1990s – though it has eased up since the PPPs return.
There is a complexity to this issue that cannot possibly be explained in anything less than a book. Simplifying it, however, provides an inaccurate picture.
And then you wonder – thanks for your knowledgeable comments.
So- what is happening, if I understand it correctly, is an emerging internal conflict in Pakistan. It isn’t just ideological, ie, between extreme and ‘modern’ Islam or political, between tribal versus national agendas…these variables are merged.
Since Pakistan is, itself, an external ‘construct’ rather than a self-organized state ..then, it’s going to be quite the fight.
Islam…..BAM!!….thank you imam.
And then you wonder;
I don’t think it’s much of a stretch for Belmont to conclude that the Pakistani Interior Minister was referring to the US when he said there was a “possibility of involvement by foreign elements in this attack”, and that “sophisticated weapons have been smuggled into Pakistan from Afghanistan”.
With respect, you missed the signifigance of the two separate quotations of the Minister from Belmont’s article. The latter of the two, “sophisticated weapons have been smuggled into Pakistan from Afghanistan”, would seem to be a more general statement taken from a larger discussion that Belmont didn’t quote in full, and not likely a direct reference to this particular attack. A car bomb is not sophisticated. I doubt the Minister would think it was.
The operative word used in the quote was that sophiticated weapons “have” been brought into Pakistan from Afghanistan. The word implies past tense.
Since sophistication is not something I can recall Afghanistan ever being accused of, the word implies Nato/US origins. Sorry, but I’ll go with Belmont’s analysis on this one.
Regardless, of tribal conflicts, caste, political corruption and sectarian violence, the underpinning is the failed ideology of Islam. All Muslims (and after so many pogroms, Pakistan is pretty much all Muslim) share the same Quran, Hadiths, Sira and prophet, which when combined with politics, as in Pakistans case, guarantees the darkest savagery and economic failure.
Simply compare Pakistan and India. There are no genetic racial differences, yet India has gone on to build a successful democracy and economy. The richest individual in India outperforms Pakistan’s entire GDP.
The ideology of Islam, political and supremacist Islam is the root cause.
more of the same . . MoM violence from the Peacenik’s religion.
ET,
Yes, it is an extremely complex issue in the Pakistani context.
This conflict is not new. Prior to the 1970s, Pakistan was relatively stable, under military dictatorship, and enjoying economic growth that was almost double that of Indias.
In my opinion, the first major turning point came in 1971, when ‘Hindu’ India stepped in and successfully helped East Pakistan become the independent nation of Bangladesh.
Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who followed, was very western in his outlook, but he saw a country that had been demoralized – a country that had been created for Muslims, but had been rejected by Muslims. It reopened the debate on Pakistan’s national identity. This issue has an underlying issue prior to the 1970s, but it came to the fore under Bhutto and Zia. He wanted to rebuild Pakistan’s self-esteem – it had been humiliated in a 2 week war – so he turned to Islam. He banned alcohol (despite being a drinker). Few people know this, but it was Zulfikar Ali Bhutto who first used the term ‘Islamic Bomb’ to refer to the nuclear bomb – the phrase itself was meant to attract investment for its nuclear program from Islamic countries (Saudi Arabia etc) reaping in oil money.
Zia followed. Zia was a colorless, even dour, character. But he was devout. And he was often mocked by fellow officers in the military about his religiosity. His promotion came as a shock to most officers. He knew that, and didn’t try to ruffle any feathers in his initial phases – out of a very real fear that he would upset the secularists in the Army. Once the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, he cashed in. The creation of a holy war suited him – it certainly allowed him to override the secularists within the army, many of whom were quickly booted into ceremonial positions. Nizam e Mustapha – the Islamic reforms, were the ultimate contribution. And how they have ruined Pakistan.
During his rule the Ahmediyyas were declared non-Muslim, the Shiaas became public enemies. Relations with Iran deteriorated pretty damn fast with Pakistan cosying up to Iran’s mortal enemy, Saudi Arabia. Afghanistan happened. When it ended, the ‘mujahideen’ were rerouted into Kashmir, beginning the major phase over there that continues to this day. During this phase – the early 1990s, the relationship between the ISI and the terrorists was cemented.
The Taleban came into play when the post-Soviet Afghan government became a little too boisterous, demanding a revision of the Duran line. Pakistan’s response was to send the militants trained for Kashmir into Afghanistan. Afghanistan was meant to provide strategic depth, particulalry in light of India’s relationship with Iran. It also became home to the militant training camps, providing “plausible deniability” against India’s claims that the militants in Kashmir were Pakistan based (now they were Afghan based- what could Pakistan do?).
The elites variously patronized these groups for various reasons. Supporting the insurgency inKashmir was a major way to win public support. It also helped forment relationships with the wealthy Saudi wahabbi patrons – a significant amount of it was about money. Indeed, In 1999, shortly before his coup d etat, Gen Musharraf called these militants, freedom fighters.
September 11th changed the game. The elites had to cool their interest in terrorist groups for obvious reasons, but could not turn on them. Musharraf tried to purge the Islamists, and succeeded to a degree. But the Islamists amongst the elite were untouchable. Benign neglect reigned. Don’t touch us, and we won’t touch you. The dirty work was left to Musharraf and his army. And even he tried his level best to pacify them without being aggressive.
IMHO, the second major turning point was the attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul. The Indian Military Attache there was a known bete noire of the Pakistani establishment – he had been particulalry successful in dealing with the insurgency in Kashmir. He was killed, and the Americans and Indians soon had evidence that it was linked to the ISI. Indeed Pakistani commentators were openly admitting that ti was probably the ISI’s doing. Then there was that farcical episode on July 27-28 this year, when the ISI was put under civilian control, before the order was rescinded.
The Americans and Indians heaped pressure – the Pakistani elite responded by passing on the pressure to the Islamists in the establishment. The ISI was purged, albeit with minimal public attention. This bomb blast is the response.
What I and many others who watch this region hope is that it has neutralised the Islamists amongst the elite. They always had the connections to hurt others (through their militant connections) and this made them untouchable in elite circles. These terrorists have turned their threats into a reality, effectively neutralizing their deterrent power. Their arguments ring hollow now. I certainly hope this will galvanize the Pakistani elite. They are a powerful lot, but they are up against their own creation. This is perhaps the first time the two have been pitted against each other in such stark terms. They were, in the past, allies; in recent times they tolerated each other. Now its war. I was expecting this. But not so soon.
That is what makes it interesting. And that is what makes it so damn scary.
bob c,
Fair enough. Belmot has his understanding of the region. I have mine. The referrence to a foreign element, however, is nothing new. Type in RAW, which stands for India’s Intelligence Agencey – Research and Analysis Wing, into any Pakistani newspapers archive search engine and you will get pages linked to bomb blasts in Pakistan.
The statements themselves are too ambivalent. India, for instance, is a key player in Afghanistan these days, and it has openly supported the Baluchistani freedom movement in Western Pakistan (as a counterwieght to Kashmir). For all you or I know, he could be referring to Indian involvement via Afghanistan. Particularly in light of the recent bomb blasts in Delhi, such an explanation will find resonance amongst the Pakistani masses. And, significantly, it allows the govenrment to unite the country against an ‘external’ threat at a time when the country is incredibly politically fractured. It is things like this that make me dismiss Belmont’s explanation as too simplistic.
Indeed, I would argue, justifiably I think, that in the absence of any group claiming responsibility, the Interior Minister is playing the old blame game – and pointing his finger at India and its new ally Afghanistan, both of whom happily accuse Pakistan of terrorism on many an occassion. He is externalizing the threat to unite a fractured country – I don’t now if you know this, but Pakistan’s ruling coalition government broke up late August – and in a very dramatic manner – indeed the country is still reeling from that. His reference to an external threat is about creating a common ground.
Pakistan lost self steem as being honest Muslim countries first of all Pakstian and new government need to clear this if they are Muslim need to clear all alchol and porn and supermodle Pakstiani model out of street and no mor pork and dance party get limited as most counties like Kewit and Iran and may be we can say Syria regular people are doing thery are Muslim they are good they are not criminal or participate in any terrorist bombing and they are good in decision of self confidence with West civll war and relgion argument. Government of Pakstian must clean all out people either wear scarf nothalf way throug people use scarf for culture not for relgion bascialy made countreis Muslim countires, Now Pakstian and Dubai system is corrupted sorry msut get fix at firs steps
we can be say we are Muslim and dress bikin of culture of new modern christianiy while even Mary mother of Jeses dress like Muslim women new Christiany and catholic Italin pop by force of Madona and moneya nd power change their religon to new modern to abuse women not give them gold
next this help in connection of Afganstan who very extremist get link and then those extremist in Afgan who do not l et women go to school and wear face cover out of way and basiclay eliminat Wahbi Saud regim and real problems is kingdeom of arb coutnrei such as Saudi who do not let women to drive and people saw tehm as real Musim while they are nto they are only lefti extermist who abuse and mix cultue with Islam Afganatan must control by own people and Pastain get out of way of Afgantan and money who USA igve for militry use to built both poor Paksitan and Afgant back on step again and police deal with criminal in the city nobody can get rird of criminal incit complety but not they are so much above border line
communiaton of Muslim contires must get started in demand of wealth in west wtih thema nd pressure of republicna to take their border and their resource for not let them gorw nad stay poor for them to loose secuiryt as we see it so far
poeple in west are not understand Isalm and not understand culture in midle east and Asian coutnreis and send few bad mouthing insulting Candain army to Afganstan mad tehm increase mor blodd sheet they are not even not who is who
in past 3 month I treid to give them so many refence to Islam web site to explain Islam is neve said go kill Muslim when they are in fasting month try to break their fast they are not undertand some of them ingornat
the total of my view in Cnada and USA:
they arenot informed well by bad direction from poltiian
they are not liek Muslim of our diffence andscare of theirjob
some are only hate cirme and are danger in Canda and mentaly are ill as some Muslim Wahabi are ill and danger too
we need to step one at a time
In pakstan bring up Ahamdiah as Muslim now they are builting the bigges mosque in West of Canda an Harpe went and say hi to them Harper do not understand who is Ahmadiah are and then hindo matter in east of Paksain and peopel in Paksitan re not realy act Muslim while tehy mix of west more than less of Muslim relgion and Afgnastan are extermsit Wahabi are not Muslim too embrased Muslim and Pakstian link with USA cause Iran arent work with them well now
if you see hanbeli and Shafia and Maliki and Hanfi are more branch in Pakstian are not alsofollow Islam well
we can say now Shia Muslim in Pakstian and link with Iran are doingsome good job now and less corrutped with few branch of suni group are good too
imgaine one of those mentally ill bad mouthing of Candaina nonMsulim go to war in Afgan and Pakstian as we it other day in our comments I spend month these peoel in this blgo are political mid clased more educated if we go otehr blog talk more scarey about Muslim
and with that cultre whihc not Cowboy culutre if you owrk among cowbody Cnadain and americna are watdch their mouth talking well but still in their heart are racist too
what the result come of this shamfull battle of loose of all innocent people and confusion among people and damgae lost wast time moneyhere and corution lose the trust and worst of all as they west are talking and bombing the Talbian show
here you are ” da da da ” surprise show teh picture of Maritan hotel for shake the world by what bomb by Americna bomb this can be trase back from what camp they took those devices toblow up people . Poltiicna loose tehir sense and l ooe priority and how can be fix first and more personla fight to understand real roots.
involve poltic take so much of your time I did it as I notice how much Canda agriclutre systems and food expert doing illegal by cut real muslim halal food and replace with corrpted Paksatni in Canda for sake of money and Muslim get arrest and charge for terrourt attakc for only take their money out of their pocket by lable muslim in falose unfortunaly , and export division of
sell pork to dubai and Iraq and desroy all canda export and do not let canda grow like China.
As afgan grow the druge westconsue tehm drugs as we can see how many mentally ill here and all damage in political and econmoic of not only Canda but also corruption is link together as corrutpion is increased in all shape of it or lack of neglct your job right and loose trust we all loose all good peopel in worl loose for few bad criminal in world we can not stop them we can reduce them or if they come like virus we can eleminate them faster than before.
Canadain Muslim are quete as we know who ever talk so far what they got the worst and no security here so far for them but we must talk
we need to let p eople who albe to know them and their culture talk to them I sometims can not hanld their abuse language in Islam nobody talk with amount of their insult and not get hit badly
He’s baaaaaaack with a new nic.
Actually, it’s an old nic, but the same old booooring content.
It took less that 24 hours to blame America and to absolve these idiots of their responsibility, of course.
And then you wonder – but, as you also note, does finding a common ground in an ‘external cause’ help or hinder Pakistan from coming to grips with its real problems and finding actual rather than irrelevant solutions?
If you are going to look realistically at a given situation, and admit that it’s not merely complex but filled with adversarial, competing agendas, histories and interests – then, trying to build ‘unity’ out of this chaos by focusing on an external agent (as good or evil) won’t do a thing to that internal chaos.
It will remain and indeed, remain entrenched..rather than assisting this multitude of perspectives to self-organize themselves into a coherent, even if diverse, whole.
Certainly, radical Islam won’t achieve this goal. That’s another strategy of attempting to create holistic cohesion. It’s an authoritarian strategy (eg, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Taliban Afghanistan) but authoritarian regimes cannot last without continual repression…and the money to maintain that repression. Pakistan doesn’t have the financial means to maintain that type of repression.
And, since fundamentalist Islam rejects reason, individual freedom, etc, then, it cannot promote an industrial economy. Pakistan requires an industrial economy, therefore, it requires freeom of thought and entrepreneurship.
So, it’s going to take quite the leadership to move Pakistan out of its dependency on some form of authoritarianism (Islamism, Evil Other)..and into a capacity to self-organize its economy and society.
As you say, it’s possible that uniting against an internal enemy, one of their own creation, might be beneficial.
you have no brain to talk but also you have tonge to bark
as last night you had alchol usage get more in our brain while i thing in you caseis not avaiable and as really this morning people will notice what kind of animal talk you are
I saw these kind of talk in spanish and Italin in god father and suprano movie alot. using all he insult to each other F and B and S an A and
use all a to z of alphatical order of english
extremist nonMuslim use tonge and bomb
and extremit Muslim used picture of Mariat hotel
both is wrong as ethic and moreality of take away personal view but also put feed back of what is best solution for today probmes in Asia as we seating hear in peace with our nonMuslim freind and hearing them all the thing they think tehy have permited to say untill HRC call thier door and say it STOP even i saw the case teh guy who hate muslim judge said leave tehm alone agian not let them alone follow p eople is also call salking and boehr people is harrasment and insult then stop it right there Ha yo!!
even word “ha co ma co” is not working, right?
Mr Marriott has commented on this at his blog. Quite a few comments followed.
http://www.blogs.marriott.com/
It is (was) a beautiful hotel
http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/isbpk-islamabad-marriott-hotel/
However if you go to the link, you will see the “make a reservation” thingy is gone.
Given that the head of the latest government in Pakistan is someone who has quite a reputation left over from the days of wife Bhutto’s term in power, the message the bomb delivered was “Get money for us from Americans right now or you are next.”
ET,
I am not sure I completely understand what you are getting at here.
Yes, Pakistan has always focused on an external threat – indeed it has been used in the nation-building exercise. Pakistanis across the spectrum will often point out the fact that in the initial post-independence era, Indian leaders have often stated their belief that Pakistan will fail as a state and fall back into the Indian fold. India is seen as a hostile power waiting to pounce, and the Army finds its legitimacy in this threat. Indeed, its sole raison d’etre is fear of India. The Army is a remarkable institution – it controls large sectors of the economy, and has significant interests in the industrial sector. It also has a great degree of influence over the industrial sector, which it has ensured is concentrated in the hands of a single community (the Memnon community, IIRC). The Army has controlled Pakistan for most of its six decades of existence.
The degree of the importance of the external threat to Pakistan’s elite cannot be emphasized enough. Pakistan’s elite need the Indian threat to justify their hold on power. They are, in a sense, the guardians. Criticizing Pakistani policies in Kashmir was unacceptable and bought on an instant ‘traitor’ tag until as recently as 2002.
And to be fair, there have been many power plays within the country, hence the constant army takeovers. Pakistans ethnic composition contributes to instability. In the North the Pathans and tribals don’t care much for Pakistan. In the west, the Baluchis, egged on by the Indians and Iranians, cause plenty of chaos. Punjabis have traditionally dominated Pakistan, but they are not strong enough to control the state. To their South, Pakistan Sindh (Bhuttos region), is also pretty damn powerful. Indeed, the adoption of Urdu as the national language was not without controversy, and it created the initial divide between East and West Pakistan. To top it off, there is the divide between ‘Pakistanis’, and Mohajjirs (those who immigrated from India following Partition – Musharraf, for instance). There are further divisions, but these are the main divisions.
A heavy emphasis is put on regionalism and language. The religious lot were obscure until the mid 1970s. For good reason. They opposed the creation of Pakistan as a nation for India’s muslims – a fact often lost on foreign commentators on the region. The reason was simple – they saw it as a political dividing up of the Ummah – which is meant to supercede political entities. As a result, they sought no representation within the government, and got none.
Religious extremists traditionally functioned on the periphery of society. There were devout Muslims in the establishment, but they were more the exception than the norm. The religious groups did evntually create political parties, starting in the 1970s, but these have fared very poorly until the September 2001. After that they did slightly better, by tying up with Musharraf as he tried to stave off the opposition from the exiled Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhuttos political parties. Complex, I know.
I wouldn’t go so far as to suggest that radical Islam is the primary belief of all Pakistanis.It is certainly a lot more common than it was in, say, the 1960s, but it is not, how should I put it, a majority phenomenon.
Nor has any leader ever tried to implement it completely – apart from Zia. Zia (who died in very mysterious circumstances) was succeeded by Bhutto, whose father was hanged by Zia – and she was too western to adopt an Islamic ideology. Nawaz Sharif – Zia’s chosen one, was always too busy defending himself in the slippery political atmosphere of Pakistan. No elected Prime Minister has completed a full term in office. Musharraf was never a radical, and September 11th allowed him to carry out his purges. His high regard for Ataturk is linked to his childhood in Turkey – he always saw secularism as the way to advancement, but he has always known the political benefits of adopting Islamic rhetoric – indeed that is how he went up the ranks in Zia’s Army.
What I am saying is that Pakistan is by no means in the grip of radical Islam or Islamists. The realities in the south are different to the realities in the west, which in turn are different to the realities in the North. Pakistani elites have often been too distracted by this to take a united stance on anything. When things get too tough – Blame India. And how do you do that? By flaring up Kashmir in a Wag the Dog-esque way.
Pakistan is not as economically backward as you suggest either. It has a fairly strong industrial sector (a significant chunk of which is controlled by the Army through its proxy – the Fauji Foundation). And for what its worth, the Pakistani economy has been running up growth rates nearly matching India’s in the past six or so years. The economy is in a bit of a mess in the recent past because of the political fragmentation over the past six or so months, and the impact that has had on investor confidence, but radical Islam has no bearing on it or the industrial sector beyond shaking up investor confidence every now and then. Indian companies are looking to invest in Pakistan these days.
What we all hope, well what anybody who knows a little bit about the region hopes, is that this attack will end the decades of blaming India and focusing on external threats, and forcing the elite to come to terms with what this religious monster that it has created. The monster served its masters very well. Now it has turned on them.
The fundamental question of what Pakistan is will continue to haunt Pakistan. Musharraf tried to answer it in an Ataturk-esque way – englightened Moderation or something. But the question that has always haunted them continues to haunt them – Islam or Pakistan: which comes first. This attack may force them to put Pakistan first.
A tad bit too long, Apologies to ET, the moderator, and anyone else who bothers to read this.
And then you wonder – I was, in my inadequate way, trying to say exactly what you concluded:
“end the decades of blaming India and focusing on external threats, and forcing the elite to come to terms with what this religious monster that it has created. The monster served its masters very well. Now it has turned on them.”
That’s my point- Pakistan’s identity and existence can’t be defined as Not India. Equally, I am not suggesting that radical Islam is its primary belief. My point about radical Islam is that it, as an ideology, doesn’t support an industrial economy. So, there is no way that Pakistan could move into radical Islam (as a means of uniting the country) AND also continue to develop industrially.
My point was that Pakisan is going to have to self-organize; its identity is going to have to emerge from within the internal diversity of its ethnic composition and geopolitical realities. Not from defining itself as Not India.
That will take time, but as you point out, this Marriott attack might be a catalyst for a turning point.
Again, thanks for your knowledgeable posts.
Well the Pakistani newspapers are demanding action. Some Choice quotes:
From one of the leading dailies – Dawn:
THE carnage at Islamabad’s Marriott Hotel has shocked Pakistan and has been rightly condemned. The target may have been ‘western’ but the timing — soon after iftar — ensured that the majority of victims were Pakistani. In the days ahead, the bombing will take to a fever pitch the debate about whether Pakistan is fighting its own war against terrorism or America’s. The debate will miss the point: it is an internal war, and it goes to the heart of what we want Pakistan to be. Do we want a country that provides a decent standard of living in a safe environment for its citizens? Or do we want to fight ideological wars that will condemn us to a vicious cycle of death and destruction? For the terrorism apologists, a strange distinction holds: that those opposing the Americans or Indians or the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan are not our concern because they do not want to harm us. This is not true. They do harm us because they retard our future and, as the Marriott bombing so viciously demonstrated, they destroy our present.
From the Daily Times:
However, despite all this special attention from Al Qaeda, the security agencies have not been able to “secure” Islamabad. One reason is obvious. Suicide bombers are virtually unstoppable. Another is the existence of Al Qaeda sympathisers and facilitators at every level of Pakistani society, but especially at the lower level. A third is the lack of anti-terrorist training in our civilian intelligence agencies which are ill-staffed and ill-equipped. Low levels of pay account for low levels of motivation too.
Regrettably, there was some “deflective” journalism in evidence soon enough. One commentator said President Zardari should go to the US, stare President Bush in the eye and challenge him. Another seriously wondered if the blast might actually have been caused by “foreign” powers, a reference that could embrace anyone from India, Afghanistan, Israel and Russia to the United States. One journalist alleged that the Marriott was a target because some American Marines had secretly holed out there during Admiral Mike Mullen’s visit to Islamabad last week. A cleric in Quetta said he could not condemn the attack because it was a fidai hamla (suicide attack) aimed at “America and its accomplices”. A leader of Jama’at-e Islami thought it could be a sequel to blasts in India, meaning that it could be a tit-for-tat incident from India and not from someone inside Pakistan. It is amazing how these people are deceiving themselves and the people of Pakistan by not calling a spade a spade —Al Qaedi did it — because of their anti-Americanism, however justified that may be.
Thankfully, it was Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani who was direct and clear in his designation of the enemy. He said the attack had come from Al Qaeda and its thousands of “foreign” terrorists now located in the Tribal Areas. President Zardari was more exhortative when he said he and the people of Pakistan would together face the onslaught of terrorism and referred to “the wife that he had buried” after she fell victim to the same terrorists not too far from Islamabad last December.
The News International:
Even in a nation that has become resilient to shock and accustomed to terrorist violence, the attack has created horror. It is being described as the worst suicide bombing yet to take place in the country – Pakistan’s very own 9/11. The bomber is believed to have used 1000 kilograms of high-quality explosives in the attack. There can be no doubt about his intentions. The act has proven too that terrorism is an evil that Pakistan must fight. It is not a war that involves the US, or other powers. It directly affects each and every one of us; we must therefore fight it. The people who died are almost all Pakistanis. Most among them are poor security guards, drivers, waiters, hotel staff – caught as the explosion ripped through the building. Those who killed them are too Pakistanis. They are not aliens, not outsiders. It is our flawed policies that have allowed them to grow and to develop the maddened mindsets of hatred that spurs their actions. It is senseless to point fingers elsewhere. We must wake up to the fact that these people come from amongst us; they target venues within the country and they kill their own countrymen.
It is time we accepted this war is our own. There must be no ambiguity about this. The Marriott, for many, was the face of Islamabad. Its destruction is a reminder of the scale of the threat we face. No one in the country is safe, no place secure.
But there are ways to try and overcome terror, provided there is will, and commitment and a shared vision. The measures that are required include an improvement in security and the training of personnel at checkposts. In Iraq, such an enhancement in their skills has helped bring down the number of bombings and the number of deaths. But far more is needed than mere security. The fact is that today, thousands of persons recruited through the years for ‘jihad’ by militant outfits – with or without official patronage – roam in our cities, our towns, our tribal areas. In most cases their only skills involve the use of guns, grenades and bombs. A means has to be found to rehabilitate these people and prevent them from leading still others down the staircase that leads to violence. In times of high unemployment and high desperation such recruitment is taking place rapidly. We must also act decisively against key militants, their outfits and their seminaries. Many in northern areas are able to identify seminaries where killers are trained. Such institutions exist too in our cities.
They must be closed down. The immediate task for the government is to build the consensus required to go about this. There is no time to lose, no time to waste. The still smouldering remains of the Marriott are a reminder of the need for urgent action. If we fail now, there will yet be worse to come in the days ahead.
Well, heres hoping they actually do something. The BBC says Pakistan intends to attack some strongholds along the Afghan border very soon.
Hey New we’re having a pig roast at my place this afternoon. If you’re hungry feel free to stop by. Bring your boyfriend if you like, there’s plenty of food.
Now imgaine Muslim extremist and nonMuslim extemist and how they are attacking each other is reall made the rest of world wonder too much too little and when you give one of those bad nonMuslim who hate Muslim gun to go and fly over Paskitna to kill then we see those unfortunate picture that take us time and money to fix mess!
USA has not right to send any more hate group without UN permison to interfer in Muslim country
ENOUGH is ENOUGH
you vot for Mrs. Clintona and /or SaraPalin
Muslims are not interest to talk to both thanks
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A Storm IC:
Thank you for your invitation
few more days of month of RAMAZAN is left
still we are fasting and we eat about 7:45 PM
you better know time and month of Muslim year and event before ask any Muslim to eat with you
If you like to invite Muslim ask for ” halal food” you can find 300 stores in Metro Torono easy and all in west of Canda and Alberta, Qubec isactive too. YOu can study what is Halal food is and if you can in reach of Halal food order pure veggie foods with no animal ingredietns or simple fish with hars scale similar like Kosher fish, if you know this food and rules in food you may have lots of freind among Muslim but you loose all your freind if you are not do step # 2 of my advice which is:
Rule #2) Next : we are not call any freind Name to your culture and the most problems in your culture is abuse freind with coworker with wife and husband with family member and not your limit of your talk or watch your BIG MOUTH
and talk nice and not F and S and insulting word to them Muslim are polite and kind and never take any food and help with barking and bomb from you to eat with you thank you . first learn how to talk with young old and children of Muslim family to respect you as a freind and welcome you the secret recepiee is your keep your bad tonge to them and talk nice they will listen to you and you will have the best freind.
We know Madona change all women dress code among Christian and said to POP who baned her enterace to ITALY later gave her free to come that Mary Mother of Jeses dress code now change to Madona and hollywood and other celberity and they are the one who teach you and your politicna to mix serious talk with all kind of talk as freedom of talk to say anything you like to say as free country and sometiems you get emrased of all consequesnce they made or they talk about it
RULE #3: COULD you also ask all POP in ITALY and all religion minster and find my question which is important regard to PORK
Jewish and Muslim are not eat PORK as you know well and some group of Christian Iknow them they are alsonot eat pork too
for Catholic Christian who their pop said eat pork excet few days of year
could first read your bible said pork is Haram andnot permisable and read all histroy adn tell us
WHO and WHICH POP in ITALY and when they order Christian that Pork is free to eat and also find out what documetn you have has proof jesus or his mother eat pork too and even drinking alcohol proof Jeses drink it and show the documetn proof that
if BIBEL and your holy book ban this how and who give and in which part ofhistory open thsi free trade to eat what you like to eat?
I am curious to know and have not time to find my answer yet?!!
I do not think law of humantiy or what is good for human to eat by order of pop who change you christian to eat Pork was allow and unknow still!
Oh man, do you have to encourage him?
A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.
Sir Winston Churchill
I am not agree that if some one do not like to change his mind are necessary all are fanatic
if you force people change their mind by gun most likly call you fantic to origianl people
some times you must give it up to chnge people you can not but you can change teh violance
—-
I call that
Muslim
and
NonMuslim
and extremist-Muslim
and Extremist-NonMuslim
===
This is my dictionay may be people are not agree with my word
such I call Candain born in Canda
Real Candaina-Canadian
people who become citizne within a 5 years or less are “simply-Candaina”
and few Canadian who are vote for USA, ISREAL nd middle east and Europe and has two president in two different countreis are
“few-stupid-canadian”
I also for Candain who live in canda and has no idea what is going on in this country and /or the people who are born in Canda but never live in Canda enough years but suddenly come and become counties leader while they live in USA or other countires and still has no idea what is going in Canda
—
today major problems among Muslim and non-Muslim which I used my wording is only some differne in theory and none of them are doing volienc act gainst each otehr but do not like each others
—
on the other hand
we have extremist nonMuslim are these groups:
love war for any differnece among Muslim with them they are not seeking any solution and using all bomb and etc
– people who are hit muslim by word of hate every where by intentiaonly use wrong inforamtiona and defamting muslim and Isalm and holy Quran by hate speech ans insulting in maximum that any human can not describe it they are have human hear
– people who mostly are belong to racist nd discrimination and can be in all pareies in Cnadanad USA bur most seen in Republican so far
– people who use sesz for any language they use for woman for gay and for dress code for talk and for use abusse woman not use their brain only use their body like supermodle and hate Muslim
– group who have job that has in conlfict iwth Muslim and those like gambling fun company and pornnn and bikin beach and all hollywood actoer and job related not seen Muslim welcome there
+++
now in Muslim extremist are we saw mostly
people we call them Wahabi whaile you call them
AlQaia or Taliban
while we see them as their mentaly are made them any hting up to here
they are seen any wrong to should get kill
in Case we have 200,000 gay in Metro Torotno we seen them are not normal people first need to get them helped but hey see get rid of them in extremway
when we see women naked they cover even face of womn ando not let them work or go to school while our prophet’s wife Khadigeh was busines woman and no need to cover face and so much like do not drive in Saudi that is not religon that is extremist to see woman get abuse as west nonMuslim extemist take woman close off udner freedom those Muslim extreimst dress tehm too mcuh under use of Islam while that is not Islam minum requirement or not give them job in talben rejim
they see any body drink alchol must join Mariot hotel game picture while the solution to change nonMslim to becoem Muslim or respect law in Muslim coutris must go to parlementa nd let peopel made decision if Paksitna decide nto call themself Muslim countires and not follow minimum requirement of Msulim coutnris thene they msut remove their name of that list liek Dubai is not follow Muslim countreis then Duabi and Pakstian should made dicion to eitehr are in or out of this relgion and do not confuse two parties over this matter
any dictionay of threat for life is wrong and not every bad person shoudl get killed for people has differne degree in their guiilt and change people is challenge get rid of them by bomb is not solution as extermist in amon nonMusim and Muslim exterimst both are put hit to each other head so far.
—
we have problems in corruption taht Ahmadiah think they are Muslim while they changed so much and we have corruption in christiany to change all eating pork is ban by and no pop can chang new law by change chrisian law
we have problems with hindo and budim in Asian we are in risk of too Asia is center of so many problem in comonist plus hindo nd bodism is reject god and Muslim belive god
we have in so many diffretne world for survival
if we calm down these two groups extremsit among Muslim and NonMuslim and cut their viloeance in any shape
then we left with muslim and nonMuslim to communiate in better way
people can free to say their opion to their parlementa nd free speech iwth limit to do what is best for them not for fear to accept all that
this required more talk and think and review for best of all human kind and progress to be better to best you can not expect some one by fear to become Muslim and by fear to loose their relgion
As per above:
How to confuse a Muslim.
Define “sex” with the word “pork”.