Duff was referring to this early election poll on John Gormley Live this morning.
(I couldn’t find an English version of the actual poll, so excuse the separtiste commentary of the link)
Conservative Party – 44%
Liberal Party – 31%
New Democratic Party – 15%
Segma is going one more than the other polling houses, calculating their own seat projection. With these numbers, Segma projects the following seat results, with the Conservatives in a majority government:
Conservative Party – 183 seats
Liberal Party – 62 seats
Bloc Québécois – 46 seats
New Democratic Party – 16 seats
Independents – 1 seat
UPDATE: “At the official outbreak of hostilities…” Automatically translated page here.
I’d say Harper has the small business vote in S.Ont. outside T.O.
This makes it the best chance for a CPC majority.
Lord knows the WEST wants it.
Rich:
Oh, I don’t doubt there’s a good chance a landslide will happen.
The only thing I was questioning Doug’s apparent mind-reading abilities.
free, it’s called ‘the protest vote’
The MSM (here and the US) are going to fall all over themselves to make damn sure that no conservative is elected to office, with over the top lies, distortions, fairy tales, etc.
I think the time has finally arrived that the MSM consuming public is about the tell the MSM to go f*&^k themselves by voting conservative.
Campaigns run in phases….if they run to plan then they will run in 2 or three phases.
Con Phase 1
Kinder gentler PMSH…makes attacking him so negatively more difficult. Calling him a liar will be difficult when his numbers are high, they’ll need to back it up.
Saying someone is controlling is a difficult argument. Most Canadians would like to think their PM is “in control”…you need to demonstrate why this is an issue.
So phase one bulletproofs the PM and includes him running on his record. Likely as an accomplishment a day.
Phase II. Start rolling out new initiatives, to show there is some direction….have surrogates answer the nastiness from the other guys. Hold back on the new initiatives if the Liberal campaign begins to implode as some suspect, under resourced, under staffed, under motivated…they would have to catch lightning in a bottle to avoid a major major embarresment. I can’t tell you what it is, just that the conditions for it exist….kind of like any natural disaster predicton, the conditions are there it is simply a matter of time.
Phase III close the deal. Depending on how the first two phases go, it is either new intiatives, hammering home the positive of leadership in tough times or a negative contrast to the other guy. If either of the two it will be a majority, if the last we are talkng minority.
This all of course precludes major dinosaur eruptions or well founded corruption allegations.
Quebecers have decided that they would be better off with an English PM who understands them and has credibility with the West rather than yet another native son, especially one they dont trust.
Ontario suburbs will return to their home base of small c conservtism…..depending on the NDP in Toronto you may actually get one or two conservative ridings in the 416, but I wouldnt count on it and I wouldnt sweat it, they need to learn. NDP surge and Tories get seats in TO, come on Jack!
The two political cartoons in Journal de Montreal are a hoot today as well.
They’ve got Harper (as a knuckle dragging, hairy back neanderthal, btw), knocking the crap out of all the pansies, er parties in the main ring.
Too funny -the BLOC is wearing the appropriate fascists face mask, Taliban-jackman -always stuck on the ropes trying to attack Harper from behind, dijon is a twisted green pretzel under Harper’s foot, whining about not hitting people with glasses.
hee hee
David,
The CPC has no positon on this subject as there is no subject. The court ruled.
Last election, Harper clearly stated on live TV that there would be no legislation and the fact that the CPC went so far as to squash a PRIVATE members bill of any pro-life leanings illustrates that there is no position.
Harper knows damn well it’s electoral suicide. This is why Steffie “harper keeps lying about my policies” hypocrite Dion keeps dragging it up with his media friends. That and useful idiots like you.
I hav been waiting for Dion to explain to this old taxpayer just how the “green shift will be good for me” I am still waiting anyway reminded me of a joke….
Replacement windows
Last year I replaced all the windows in my house with new, energy efficent low-e windows. Today I got a call from the owner of the company that installed them. He informed me that it has been a year since the windows were replaced and that he still had not recieved any money, heloooo……….your salesman told me that these windows would pay for themselves in a year..helooo
it’s been a year!….silence on the other end of the line I hung up I bet he felt stupid.
cheers Bubba
Doug,
You’ve been listening to too many nutcase, tin-hat conspiracy theorists.
What’s the frequency kenneth?
David,
The CPC has no positon on this subject as there is no subject. The court ruled.
Posted by: Warwick at September 8, 2008 3:19 PM
Very well, that amounts, by default at least, to a pro-choice policy. Right?
…. so by default, “STUCK ON STUPID” is the real problem here then?
Or could be; he doesn’t want it and she does?
Don’t forget, the eagerly awaited reappearance of the Liberal Mole…
183 seats?
Well, I suppose a Liberal collapse leading to increased CPC support is possible sometime before election day. However, I doubt that this poll accurately reflects the current mood. Harper’s prediction of an increased minority government is consistent with other, current polling data.
One of the things that I will want to see is how well the Liberals do outside Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver. Although the combined population of Canada’s three largest cities is a significant political demographic, I think it will interesting to reexamine the question of how “national” the Liberals are as a Party outside of these cities after the current election.
Latest Nanos poll taken Aug20 to 27th/08
(LP 35%, CP 33%, NDP 17%, BQ 8%, GP 7%).
Nikonthenumbers.com
sheesh, david – don’t you understand basic reasoning? No position means: No position.
The political parties did not take a position on abortion. The courts did (1988). The courts are, legally, not part of the legislature; they are not political. Therefore, what a court says is NOT the policy of a political party.
Because the Supreme Court of Canada ruled a certain way, does not make it a policy of the Liberals, or the Conservatives, or the NDP or the Bloc or the Green, or the Communist or the Marxist-Leninist..and any other political party. It makes it LAW.
stephen – nice outline. Yes, I think that there might be a seat or two in Toronto for the Conservatives. I think Glenn’s outline of yesterday, in another thread, was a good one. He predicted quite a loss for the Liberals and a rise in NDP numbers. We’ll see.
Hugger:
Interesting change since Aug. 27, don’t you think?
“Just say, ‘In that case, vote for the party that promises to spend the least amount of your money.'”
Didn’t we do that last time? And what happened? Record breaking spending by Harper. Record breaking spending on self-interested polling to boot.
Maybe Harper’s New Liberal is better than Classic Liberal, but it is NOT conservative.
And DO NOT give me any crap about “incrementalism”. There was NO need to break spending records. There was NO need to break his promise with record breaking corporate welfare (the Ford flip flop is ghastly and he’s lucky the media are ignoring it).
I remember when Harper won and all the conservative bloggers and commenters went on and on about how they will keep Harper’s foot to the ideological fire. The fire’s been put out by too much kool-aid.
Atacl:
Any suggestions on who to put your X beside instead?
Living in a time warp, hugger?
The fight between the ‘left’ and the ‘right’ or the Liberals/NDP/Bloc and the Conservatives is really about class.
The Liberals/left have since WWII moved themselves into an upper class, made up of ‘urban professionals’, most funded by the govt (civil service, media, education). They view themselves as an elite intellectual and superior class, who are, by nature, entitled to Rule over the peasants.
The peasants are always victims, impoverished, uneducated etc etc. They are as well, ‘rednecks’, ignorant, etc. Immigrants to the country are rapidly moved into ghettos, isolated and funded to remain ‘as they were’ in return for their votes.
There is no middle class in this scenario.
The Conservatives are the party of the middle class. A class that is self-made, that does not see itself as entitled or others as entitled.
Here’s a picture and article that says it all:
http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/08/its-the-class-war-stupid/
It’s talking about the US election and the contrast between McCain-Palin and Obama-Bidin. Take a look at the drawing! It’s perfect!
Then, read the analysis. Also very astute.
SYF,
The poster is a plant with a similar IQ.
ET, above is right, the left think they have right to rule the middle class having tricked us into emptying our pockets into their mouths all the time. When are the rest of us going to wake up anyways?
…. so by default, “STUCK ON STUPID” is the real problem here then?
Posted by: ldd at September 8, 2008 3:33 PM
Or could be; he doesn’t want it and she does?
Posted by: ldd at September 8, 2008 3:36 PM
Perhaps you can explain why it’s stupid to ask for clarity on such an issue? As for your he/she remark, I suppose you can interpret that one too while you’re at it.
Nice link ET. “Popcorn and beer.” It’s the same Liberal attitude both sides of the border.
“The Conservatives are the party of the middle class. A class that is self-made, that does not see itself as entitled or others as entitled.
Here’s a picture and article that says it all:
http://neoneocon.com/2008/09/08/its-the-class-war-stupid/“
Posted by: ET at September 8, 2008 4:08 PM
Except that the Republicans have just chosen a man from a wealthy family who owns so many houses he’s lost count of how many. And before that they chose a nominee from the uppercrust of elite political and wealthy families in the United States!
That doesn’t let the Democrats off the hook and you may be right about them, but saying the Republicans are any less upper class and elitist is hyperbolic partisan piffle.
david – you aren’t asking for clarity. Clarity has been provided; namely – abortion is not a political issue. The Conservatives have NO policy on it. The issue has been decided by the Supreme Court. What further clarity do you want?
ETWTF- no, you don’t understand the definition of a ‘middle class’. It has nothing to do with current wealth. The defining attribute of a member of the middle class is that it, as a class, is open to membership. You can move in; you can equally move out.
A member of the middle class is someone who has done it on their own. They may now have multiple homes; they may now be very wealthy. But, they achieved this on their own.
Furthermore, a key attribute of a member of the middle class is that there is no sense of entitlement, no sense that he is entitled to Rule over others. No sense of superiority in birth, intellect, value.
The Republicans have made it very clear by their choice of McCain and esp. Palin; and in their rhetoric – they are against the ‘Washington elite’, which is a ‘code-name’ for that elistist class. The Democrats are shocked that anyone would select for governance an ‘ordinary citizen’.
Again – this has nothing to do with wealth; a middle class person can become, on his own, very wealthy.
Interesting change since Aug. 27, don’t you think?
Posted by: set you free at September 8, 2008 3:55 PM
Almost amazing don’t you think?
I remember a black comedian telling a tale once where he used the line, “Somebodies lyin'”
The TV broadcasters have rejected May as a participant in the leader’s debates.
I suspect that she would either be seen as an appendage of Dion, speaking ‘for’ or ‘as’ him or even, bleeding votes away from him.
I’ve said it many times before, that I think it is completely undemoratic to have the Bloc as a national party. Why? Because it isn’t. It makes governing Canada, as a democracy, extremely difficult. That’s because it, as a local party only available to people in Quebec, becomes by default, their party regardless of its stated policies. Since Quebec is also allotted 75 House seats, this is a substantial number. [I note that the West, with the same population as Quebec, has eleven fewer seats].
And Dion has now come up with an ‘I’m A Victim’ explanation of his inability to speak English. He’s now saying that he has a hearing problem. That’s new; we’ve never heard that before.
The only problem is – this would also have affected his ability to speak French. It hasn’t.
I suggest the real reason is that he left it too late to learn English, and he has no linguistic ability.
Living in a time warp, hugger?
Posted by: irwin daisy at September 8, 2008 4:07 PM
Umm, it does take a few days to compile and publish the stats I expect. But ya, I have a special relationship with the space/time continuum. Something to do with Truth, Honour, Democracy and the subversion of those lofty concepts.
ET: “A member of the middle class is someone who has done it on their own. They may now have multiple homes; they may now be very wealthy. But, they achieved this on their own.”
Like George W. Bush?!?!?! or McCain?!?!?! Pray tell, how did they achieve their uber-wealth “on their own”????
ET: “Furthermore, a key attribute of a member of the middle class is that there is no sense of entitlement, no sense that he is entitled to Rule over others. No sense of superiority in birth, intellect, value.”
Where on earth has ANYONE defined “class” in that way? This may very well be an attribute of Democrats vs. Republicans, but it has nothing to do with any class definition. You are simply making that up because it makes it feel better voting Republican.
ET: “The Republicans have made it very clear by their choice of McCain and esp. Palin; and in their rhetoric – they are against the ‘Washington elite’, which is a ‘code-name’ for that elistist class.”
By picking the multimillionaire son of a multimillionaire former President and former Senator in 1999, both of whom were the upper crust of Washington elite? And then by picking one of the longest-serving Washington insiders they could possibly pick – who can’t remember how many houses he owns (and no – McCain is NOT a self-made wealthy man, it is inherited and married wealth) and says he endorses pretty much everything the President did in the last 8 years and voted with his party over 90% of the time? This is how they try to distance themselves the Washington elite?
McCain himself in his speech last week said he has been a part of every major national security or defence decision since he became a senator. How more “inside” could you get short of being the majority/minority leader???
This is what I don’t get about blind partisanship. Putting policies aside (meaning only looking at leadership and experience), McCain is clearly the better choice. Biden is as much an insider as McCain if not more so, so the Democrats are certainly not better. So what make stuff up? He’s a stand up leader who’s own real story beats out the others. So why invent attributes for McCain? Why can’t Stuck on Stupid partisans say, yeah, he has his faults but he is a good choice, the better choice, even the far better choice.
Stuck on Stupid, indeed. And the rest of us suffer from the vitriolic blind partisanship.
Hugger, I guess we believe the polls we choose to believe. The mind sees what it wants. Do you really want a Fiberal government?
Be careful what you wish for; you might get one.
For those who remember “Frank” magazine’s day in the sun:
All we allowed to call him the “Puffster”, or is that verboten?
and he has no linguistic ability.
Posted by: ET at September 8, 2008 5:15 PM
I am very limited in that aspect too ET. Does that make me unworthy? I see shortcomings in Dion but do we need to make his command of a second language a focal point?
At this point in our space/time continuum his largest fault is lack of political savvy. Mr. Harper doesn’t have that problem. He has a problem with integrity and subversion of Democratic process. Just cause the Libs do it, doesn’t make it ok.
Actually, ET, the Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) did not decide the abortion issue. It struck down the 1988 (I think) law, but left it up to Parliament to draft another one. I believe the Conservatives made a stab at it and the law didn’t pass.
As a result, Canada is the only democratic country in the world with no law concerning abortion: there is no protection of any kind for the unborn human being in this country, for the full nine months of gestation. E.g., If a doctor should perform an abortion in Canada before the birth, at a full nine months, he/she would be perfectly within his/her rights to do so.
By and large, the left-wing parties in this country are quite satisfied with this state of affairs, as are a good number of Conservatives. But, abortion is most definitely a political issue and should be decided by our elected representatives. However, it’s such an incendiary issue, all the political parties are quite happy (cowards) to hide behind the SCC and say the issue is out of their hands.
It’s not.
That said, the Conservatives have made it quite clear that this issue is not a priority.
The mind sees what it wants. Do you really want a Fiberal government?
Be careful what you wish for; you might get one.
Posted by: Tim at September 8, 2008 5:26 PM
Tim, I think that the wide spread that we see in the various polls makes them all very questionable. I have come to suspect their purpose is to manipulate the opinions and votes of the electorate.
What I wish for is a Democratically elected government that respects you and I, represents the wishes of individual ridings and the much touted principles of the will of the People.
As things are now, what we will get is either the Liberals or CPC based on who runs the best medicine show.
Hugger: “I am very limited in that aspect too ET. Does that make me unworthy? I see shortcomings in Dion but do we need to make his command of a second language a focal point?
As I pointed out in another thread, “what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”. The Quebec press pilloried various Conservative candidates like Bob Stanfield, Joe Clark, and John Crosbie because they weren’t fluent in French. If the French (20% of mother tongues) feel they’re justified in DEMANDING the PM can speak French intelligibly, then English Canadians have every right to demand a PM who can address them in their own language without a translator required.
And it’s not like this is an unprecedented request. PET, Bouchard, Levesque, Parizeau – all of them were francophones first, but all spoke English quite well. Why does Dion merit a pass?
I’ve noticed a trend. Many people try to take issues such as abortion, fiscal policy, social policy, and cubbyhole them into black and white issues, like they are a digital 0 or 1. They are not.
Take abortion for example (just talking here folks). Some people are against abortion for any reason, some others think people should have abortion on demand, anytime they want, as many times as they want. Those are the polar opposite issues. The vast majority of people are in between somewhere. For instance, they may personally object to abortion, but don’t feel they have the right to, or don’t want to, dictate for others.
Some people may feel abortion on demand is fine, but have problems with late term abortions (yes, they do happen in Canada every day).
And, there are many other positions in between.
The same goes for fiscal policy – there are many shades of gray between black and white (total government or no government at all – views shared by very few IMO).
It is intellectually lazy IMO to try to take complicated issues with wide ranging thoughts and viewpoints, and turn them into yes or no arguments.
The discussion re: AGW fall into this fallacy more often than not, I’ve noticed.
Before David and ET WTF go nuts on me, all parties and leaders do it. Why, because it’s way easier to explain.
We don’t think deeply enough about issues that affect us and our society. I believe that very strongly. Sorry, can’t provide definitive evidence, it’s just my opinion.
I can’t do true justice to this idea of nuances and complications to political positions because, well, that idea itself is gray and not black and white.
The fact that Duff referred to any poll which would seem to be good for Conservatives, is of course suspect.
I would assume the reason Duff would do so, would be so the media can IMMEDIATELY start to ‘inform’ the public of the ‘catastophic’ possibility of a ‘scary’ conservative majority.
hugger – yes, I think that Dion’s inability to speak English is an important political issue. That’s because the majority of Canadians, over 80%, speak English. And only English.
It is elitist to assume governance over a population when you cannot speak their language. Such behaviour was common in medieval Europe where the upper class governed within French and Latin. Never English or German or…
I also reject Dion’s current strategy of defining himself as a Victim, claiming that he has a hearing problem (unproven) and that this is the reason he can’t speak English. As I said, if this were true – and the fact that it’s never, ever been mentioned before makes it unlikely – then this would also have affected his abilities in French. It hasn’t.
lookout – yes, I think your history outline is correct. The Senate rejected Mulroney’s bill outlawing abortion.
But I wonder. I haven’t come to a conclusion but I feel that abortion is not a political issue. It’s moral and in some areas of life, I think that the state has no right to interfere. I don’t know that I’d want a political representative to make such a private decision for me. Personally, I’m against abortion; but that’s only personally. I don’t know if I can judge another person. It’s a reality that illegal abortions were killing women. And, no matter what the law says, women would always be trying to abort unwanted children.
The way abortions are used now, as a kind of birth control – well, I’m against that. I’m also against the idea that the fetus is the ‘private property’ of the woman. The father is involved. Equally, and I mean equally, so is the fetus. So, it’s a terrible situation and I don’t know if there is a ‘just’ final decision.
hugger: “As things are now, what we will get is either the Liberals or CPC based on who runs the best medicine show.”
Well then. It’s in the bag. It’s clear that the CPC are the ones who will run “the best medicine show.”
Stephane Dion and his party can’t even start off their campaign running, let alone run a medicine show.
Why does Dion merit a pass?
Posted by: KevinB at September 8, 2008 5:53 PM
The best answer I can give you, is that the Liberal party chose Dion as their leader knowing his problem with the English language. That is their burden to bear politically. As an English Canadian, I understand your sentiments. I also understand that the challenges of diversity in our country are not unlike that which other countries experience. What may set us a notch higher is how we all deal with it.
If Canadians can get past being manipulated on regional and linguistics lines, we will be a stronger Nation.
I’m curious as to what would happen if the courts were to say that the libs were not allowed to use the greenshift thingy and ruled in Jennifers favor during the course of the election. Would there be repercussions ala Adscam? It probably cost Martin the election and this could be the tipping point to give PMSH a majority.
Any legal beagles that have an opinion?
Posted by: ET at September 8, 2008 6:01 PM
ET, honestly, is it really a Political issue or is it a personal issue? As I said in a reply to another poster the Libs choose him and will have to live with his language challenge. I certainly don’t think it was smart politically. I also think it was very questionable. So much so that I wonder sometimes if they actually want to form a government at this time given current economic realities.
Elitism is a hallmark of governance. Those that govern, and their prodigy who follow in their footsteps, increasingly assume they have divine right. Democracy provides something of a reality check. If Democracy is circumvented via medicine show tactics and demagoguery, what are we to do? Piss and moan and vent on the internet?
Shamrock:
I don’t know why you think I’d jump all over you: you’ve laid out the issue of black and white partisanship quite nicely. I understand why the politicians do it – they want power and those sweet pensions and health benefits, and they want to make sure the other guys don’t. And we the sheeple buy it, so who can blame them. We get the politicians we deserve.
But while I can understand a bit from a practical electioneering view why the politicians do it, I don’t understand why ordinary supporters – and the partisan kool-aid drinking monkeys here are certainly no worse than the Liberal and Dipper monkeys – not only automatically and unquestioningly adopt all of the talking points but also feel the need to invent, fabricate things about their preferred candidate and their opponent for fear of giving or losing even the slightest advantage.
While the ET-type lies are common, the worst by far are those conservatives who were saying they would rather vote Hillary than McCain when they were trying to get Romney/Huckabee/Thompson elected or those Democrats who said they vote McCain instead of Obama while trying to get Clinton elected… only to claim now that McCain or Obama as the case may be is the perfect candidate and the other the most dangerous candidate.
Noticed that Grits can now use, under license, Green Shift trademark. I kind of glad to see the end of that one; it really had no bearing on the election. The issue is not the use of a trademark, but a bad policy that simply shifts wealth from one region to another, while doing zip for the environment.
I don’t think Dion’s lack of English skills is worth commenting on, hearing problem or not. The voters can make their own assessment without peanut gallery comments, IMO.
That Segma LaPresse poll seems a rogue to me. It’s nowhere near others and their seat projection of 180 CPC seats, based on 43% of vote, doesn’t make sense to me.
IMO, it will take about 43% votes for Tory to give them slim majority. Their vote is simply not as efficient as Liberals, where they have solid blocks of votes in large urban areas, and are nowhere in other parts. This means they can get piles of seats with a fairly low share of popular vote.
Chretien ruled with iron hand upon receiving 38% of tallied vote (under 25% of eligible voters if you do the math). The CPC vote is more evenly spread out, and while this possibly gives them better national scope, they need a higher percentage than Liberals to obtain majority.
That is, and will be a tremendous challenge. Then again, Dion and Layton are not likely inspiring either their supporters or potential voters so far, so we will see.
I concur with ET and others, I personally am against abortion but in the end I feel it really isn’t my business. I also have concerns about the fathers rights[sarc on] but I do not see how they can be accommodated. (I would rather focus the fathers rights[sarc on] energy on issues that can be fought ie…not giving babies to mothers in jail when their is a father available:)
In a country of individual choice there is no collective responsibility for one persons act ie… abortion; so the fight should be to stop public funding of these procedures, that is the true embarrassment. The typical leftard successfully implicates “society” for the consequences of the individual’s choices, or as they say “having your cake and eating it to”.
I’d say Harper gave a hint of a coming campaign promise tonite in Regina.
He noted the Conservatives “started” with a $100 month child tax benefit.
“It’s a reality that illegal abortions were killing women.” – ET
One question.
How many?
You hear this a lot from abortion supporters – “Oh no, we can’t have women getting back-alley abortions! They die!” But what’s the number? How does it compare to the number of pregnancies terminated every year? Especially in the second and third trimesters?
I suspect the number was very low. Poland banned abortion except for strict circumstances in 1993. There are now fewer than 1000 reported abortions in that country every year, down from 200,000/yr in the 70s and 100,000/yr in the 80s.
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-poland.html
So where are all the deaths from these desperate women getting these back-alley abortions? They must have exploded in Poland. Surely we’d hear about it?
*chirp chirp*
A poll showing a huge majority for the Conservatives is just what the media wants to put out.
Harper won’t co-operate with them by telling them he expects or seeks a majority. This is their way of attempting to interfere with how people vote and to encourage the “strategic voting” they like to yak about to prevent a majority.
It could be a rogue poll but it could also be exactly what will happen. The only thing the Liberals have going for them is the support of the entire media in this country and thanks to the blogosphere, more people are onto them.
Don Newman is looking pretty drawn and concerned, a good sign for the Harper Conservatives.
In answer to your question, Ian – I/we don’t know. Statistics weren’t kept and after all, many deaths could be given a different cause, just as many AIDS deaths in Africa are defined as ‘pneumonia’ or whatever ..rather than the real cause.
But I think there are a few facts to think about. Any illegal medical procedure is going to be, heavily, risk-laden because of lack of equipment, care, etc etc. To say that there were no deaths from illegal abortion would be incorrect; to say that there were no lasting effects from inadequate care would be incorrect. That’s all we can say. We can’t put a number on it.
Women are always going to try to terminate pregnancies and have always done so. A major problem now, with the mantra that “It’s a Woman’s Choice’ is that it has become a form of contraception. It isn’t. It can be very harmful to the woman.
Morally – it’s difficult. Whatever one feels personally, and I’m personally against abortion, – this can’t be a universal ‘Truth’.
As I said, there are three lives to consider: the fetus, the father, the mother. I have no idea how to deal with all three in a universal or societal sense. I can only deal with those issues for myself. And not for anyone else. I simply can’t make the decision for anyone else, or judge them.