Via Newsbusters
(edit: Patience/virtue waiting for the video.)
61 Replies to “March Of The Penguins”
Just don’t call me late for supper bob. But heaven forbid that manipulation could be behind anti global warming propaganda.
Manipulation is a good topic to discuss, as there is quite of bit of that going on. As ex. When people claim 500 experts recently came out against climate change proponents and when you do a bit of research you find other sources which say 400. Then still others who say many of these are economists, engineers, weathermen etc. Then you find more sources which say many of these people whose names were put on this list have asked for them to be removed because they weren’t asked, taken out of context or simply don’t support the anti GW theory.
Further to that you find many blog entries and posts that are just cherry picking and misrepresentation. Like a recent entry here about the UK weather site, which if you bother to go to it clearly says they support GW and Climate change positions. Other recent misleading and erroneous claims were made about a reference to Nasa and another to BP petroleum.I could say more, but that is manipulation.
Hugger
Posted by: Greg G at May 8, 2008 4:10 PM
There have been a number of factual based posts presented even on this blog that contradict just about everything you say, regarding climate change so you wasted your time and the time of everyone who read your drivel.
As for the rest of your childish rant, you certainly display the mentality of your kind very well. I only read bits of your skin head mentality garbage but it was enough to know you need to grow up and stop playing for sympathy. I bet you just impressed the heck out of your Aryan brotherhood buddies with your internet bravado.
Hasta la vista baby!
Hugger
I’m coming late to this talk, but Hugger, I gotta admit something. I’ve never been one to listen to scientists and experts unless I sought them out. The reason, mostly, is because those who talk the loudest usually have the most BS to shovel. Not always, but usually.
I don’t believe in AGW, not because some egghead says it is or ain’t so. I don’t believe in it for the same reason that I don’t believe in Santa Claus. I’d never seen him, and everything that I do know about science and physics makes me question the veracity of his existence. So when I was a kid, learning that Santa wasn’t real wasn’t a major blow for me, cause I’d figured it out earlier. See, I like science, and have a pretty good grounding in it.
Now here’s a point for just about any disaster. Mother Gaia, as so many enviros like to talk about our little planet, is pretty big. Big enough, in fact, to completely wipe us out in a geological sneeze. Big enough to take pretty much everything we dish out. And if she doesn’t like something that we do, we’re dead. Thing is, except for really major stuff, like igniting the atmosphere, we can’t really tell what will and what won’t make the planet decide that breeding intelligent bugs is becoming too much of a headache — so we can either try to do our best to get off the planet before it loses its patience, or we can try to live as cave-dwellers and pray for the best. Now if history is any guide, I’m pretty sure there’ll be a segment of society that does it’s best to make the decisions about who does and doesn’t end up living off of trail-mix — and who does or doesn’t go off to the ga…well, gotta avoid Godwin’s law here, eh?
That said, I’m thinking that we’re gonna see some major cooling in the next twenty years. The world is old enough to take care of itself — like in the past, we’ll probably survive most of what’s coming thanks to ingenuity and dumb luck. Maybe not all of us, but then, the world has had it’s little tantrums that killed off sizable populations before; volcanoes, tsunamis, floods, ice ages, and all the rest, such as meteor impacts.
The best you can do for short term stuff is make sure you’ve got a boogie-bag, and give some thought and a bit of preparation for dealing with a disaster. Getting overly upset over long term stuff isn’t gonna feed your family though, so I’d suggest keeping an eye on things and getting yourself set up as best you can to deal with the problem you can foresee.
But most important, like the HHG2TG says: “Don’t Panic!” Because while you might not want to believe it, neither you, nor Al Gore and David Suzuki in a love triangle with some drugged out chic that things she’s Mother Gaia, nor all the people of the Earth joining hands and singing kumbaya, can actually save us if the planet decides to take us out. So why worry about it?
Posted by: Trek at May 9, 2008 5:35 AM
Hey Trek..I agree with a bit of what you say, in so much as not worrying about every trendy cause that comes along and I very much take stock in being dubious about what I haven’t seen, touched or felt in some way. That is in fact why I support efforts to reduce our use of fossil fuels and technological improvements which make their use less offensive to the environment overall. From the tone of your post, I get the impression you haven’t been following my insightful comments on this blog, so I will summarize briefly.
The basis of my opinion is if we are to err, better to err on the side of caution. It is the conservative approach.
I never watched Inconvenient Truth, and I don’t read Gore unless someone publishes material related to him that I happen to want to read. What I have seen is the shoreline where I live continuously erode for decades. It is now a serious issue. I hobbled along the beach two days ago to see for myself the damage from this years storm surges and it is significant. The worst I have seen in 5 decades. For ex. One beach front lot close to me lost it’s entire frontage and it’s 3 ft. sq. cement block seawall lays on the beach in front of it. Another property had its conventional railroad tie wall destroyed and will need to be rebuilt completely. Plus they lost 5 to 6 ft. of earth behind it. I have twice posted links substantiating a 1 to 2 mm per year increase in the height of the ocean which translates into 1.5 metres of lost frontage per mm. This being an increase from .01 to .02 mm in centuries prior to the 20th.
I lived through the winters of the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and they cannot be compared to the last 2 decades. The most significant aspect being they were relatively predictable. Now, winter starts later and spring comes much earlier. It was 20 degrees here on the east coast two days ago. The ice pack was gone early this year, as it was last year.
These things “I” can see, feel and touch. That I take stock in. It just so happens, this supports Global warming/climate change scientist.
Briefly, I have also lived through the this is bad for you don’t eat it syndrome only to have them reverse their claims 10 to 20 years later. Or the this is good for you, eat it syndrome. Only to have them go into reverse 10 to 20 yrs. later. So I take a lot of it with a grain of salt too.
I also find society has a extraordinary tendency to swing from one extreme to the other before finding the middle ground some decades later. So I also bear that in mind.
As far as Santa is concerned, that’s isn’t a very appropriate analogy. And going about life with one’s head stuck in the sand and fingers in one’s ears going la la la la, I don’t hear you, isn’t very practical either. Don’t worry, be happy! There are far too many man made and caused, dangers that some would love for you to simply ignore because it’s profitable or expedient for them.
If you are not aware, you can’t plan for contingencies. This is where I take exception with manipulation and leading the herd mentality. I believe in examining things for there worth, and in the case of some uncertainty, erring on the side of caution if you can. Such is why I support new technologies that will significantly reduce damage done to the environment, the space we humans occupy on this earth and the air we breathe.
One last example. When I was young, wildlife in our area had nearly disappeared. When I went to the woods in the winter to cut firewood it was dead silent. No birds, no deer, barely a rabbit or a partridge left. In the spring there was no fish in the brooks either. This reality extended over a huge portion of my home Province. The reason was man made. Our forests had been sprayed extensively to control the spruce bud worm infestation and to slow it down so our local giant corporation could harvest as much wood as possible. This not only killed the bud worm, but infected just about everything else that was interconnected to the habitat. The birds and the fish ate the bugs and died. The rabbits, deer and moose ate the vegetation and died. I don’t know what happened to the Partridge, but they went away. Even the ducks and geese were few in comparison to prior. And the kick a** was that when the bugs were poisoned, the birds that ate bugs died and enough of the bugs survived that they destroyed entire species of trees such as the fir and in the end there was far more damage to the woodlots than if they had left it alone in the first place.
Moral to the story is that man’s tinkering with chemicals and other non natural agents can have devastating effects not only to wildlife, but to man too. So be ever vigilant. If not us, then who?
Hugger
The gregmiester says ..The basis of my opinion is if we are to err, better to err on the side of caution. It is the conservative approach……Now, winter starts later and spring comes much earlier. It was 20 degrees here on the east coast two days ago. The ice pack was gone early this year, as it was last year. These things “I” can see, feel and touch. That I take stock in. It just so happens, this supports Global warming/climate change scientist.
First how is it erring on the cautious side to move mankind in a uncharted,untested direction,embracing biotechnology,nuclear power,and who know what else.
Second nobody is disputing the climate fluctuating,that is obvious since there was 2 miles of ice over my head 10000 years ago. How can you think the world is going to explode because the winters were different when you were a kid,and its been a warm spring where you are.
My best advice to you is to watch the Chicken Little on youtube.
My best advice to you is to watch the Chicken Little on youtube.
Posted by: bob at May 9, 2008 12:30 PM
Do you feel better now bob?
I did you the courtesy of replying to your earlier posts, but your response on nuclear power and biofuels was very telling. I don’t need your advice bob. You on the other hand could use a down home heaping helping.
Hugger
History will make one of us a fool Greg. You are riding the wave of the latest hystaria , Do you know how many times this has happened before? There is nothing new here.
“Posted by: Greg G at May 8, 2008 4:10 PM
There have been a number of factual based posts presented even on this blog that contradict just about everything you say, regarding climate change so you wasted your time and the time of everyone who read your drivel.
As for the rest of your childish rant, you certainly display the mentality of your kind very well. I only read bits of your skin head mentality garbage but it was enough to know you need to grow up and stop playing for sympathy. I bet you just impressed the heck out of your Aryan brotherhood buddies with your internet bravado.
Hasta la vista baby!
Hugger”
Go f–k yourself you stupid twit!
You are obviously a legend in your own mind. Your pathetic ad hominem attacks speak for themselves.
A bit of light reading, if you can manage it with your obvious A.D.D.
Church, J.A. and J.M. Gregory. 2001: Changes in sea level, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, pp. 641–693.,UK and New York, NY: Cambridge University Press.
Davis, C. H., et al., 2005. Snowfall-driven growth in East Antarctic ice sheet mitigates recent sea-level rise. Science, 308, 1898-1901.
Wingham, D.J., A. Shepherd, A. Muir, and G.J. Marshall. 2006: Mass balance of the
Antarctic ice sheet. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A, 364, 1627-1635.
And please spare us the details of your noisy clumps through the bush, I remember the spraying very well, they flew two by two in refurbished P-40’s. We were taking as many salmon and cariboo as we wished, as well as moose, bear, rabbit and ptarmigan, those years and the years that followed. City f–kers like you are best keeping to fishing for gomgweg, stupid hugger s–t. I’m finished with you!
“gomgog” should be “gomgwej” look it up stupid tree fugger. BTW my son’s grandfather was in the camps in Poland, so that’s two. If you hear a wizz, that will be the last thing you hear fugger.
Posted by: Greg G at May 10, 2008 4:43 AM
Obviously you don’t read well, so I will print clearly these words from above;
“Take your extended flamewars to private email.”
So go email your Aryan brotherhood buddies. And quit playing for sympathy, baby. Don’t forget to wipe your chin when you take that wizz.
I’ll be bock, baby!
The Huggenator
Just don’t call me late for supper bob. But heaven forbid that manipulation could be behind anti global warming propaganda.
Manipulation is a good topic to discuss, as there is quite of bit of that going on. As ex. When people claim 500 experts recently came out against climate change proponents and when you do a bit of research you find other sources which say 400. Then still others who say many of these are economists, engineers, weathermen etc. Then you find more sources which say many of these people whose names were put on this list have asked for them to be removed because they weren’t asked, taken out of context or simply don’t support the anti GW theory.
Further to that you find many blog entries and posts that are just cherry picking and misrepresentation. Like a recent entry here about the UK weather site, which if you bother to go to it clearly says they support GW and Climate change positions. Other recent misleading and erroneous claims were made about a reference to Nasa and another to BP petroleum.I could say more, but that is manipulation.
Hugger
Posted by: Greg G at May 8, 2008 4:10 PM
There have been a number of factual based posts presented even on this blog that contradict just about everything you say, regarding climate change so you wasted your time and the time of everyone who read your drivel.
As for the rest of your childish rant, you certainly display the mentality of your kind very well. I only read bits of your skin head mentality garbage but it was enough to know you need to grow up and stop playing for sympathy. I bet you just impressed the heck out of your Aryan brotherhood buddies with your internet bravado.
Hasta la vista baby!
Hugger
I’m coming late to this talk, but Hugger, I gotta admit something. I’ve never been one to listen to scientists and experts unless I sought them out. The reason, mostly, is because those who talk the loudest usually have the most BS to shovel. Not always, but usually.
I don’t believe in AGW, not because some egghead says it is or ain’t so. I don’t believe in it for the same reason that I don’t believe in Santa Claus. I’d never seen him, and everything that I do know about science and physics makes me question the veracity of his existence. So when I was a kid, learning that Santa wasn’t real wasn’t a major blow for me, cause I’d figured it out earlier. See, I like science, and have a pretty good grounding in it.
Now here’s a point for just about any disaster. Mother Gaia, as so many enviros like to talk about our little planet, is pretty big. Big enough, in fact, to completely wipe us out in a geological sneeze. Big enough to take pretty much everything we dish out. And if she doesn’t like something that we do, we’re dead. Thing is, except for really major stuff, like igniting the atmosphere, we can’t really tell what will and what won’t make the planet decide that breeding intelligent bugs is becoming too much of a headache — so we can either try to do our best to get off the planet before it loses its patience, or we can try to live as cave-dwellers and pray for the best. Now if history is any guide, I’m pretty sure there’ll be a segment of society that does it’s best to make the decisions about who does and doesn’t end up living off of trail-mix — and who does or doesn’t go off to the ga…well, gotta avoid Godwin’s law here, eh?
That said, I’m thinking that we’re gonna see some major cooling in the next twenty years. The world is old enough to take care of itself — like in the past, we’ll probably survive most of what’s coming thanks to ingenuity and dumb luck. Maybe not all of us, but then, the world has had it’s little tantrums that killed off sizable populations before; volcanoes, tsunamis, floods, ice ages, and all the rest, such as meteor impacts.
The best you can do for short term stuff is make sure you’ve got a boogie-bag, and give some thought and a bit of preparation for dealing with a disaster. Getting overly upset over long term stuff isn’t gonna feed your family though, so I’d suggest keeping an eye on things and getting yourself set up as best you can to deal with the problem you can foresee.
But most important, like the HHG2TG says: “Don’t Panic!” Because while you might not want to believe it, neither you, nor Al Gore and David Suzuki in a love triangle with some drugged out chic that things she’s Mother Gaia, nor all the people of the Earth joining hands and singing kumbaya, can actually save us if the planet decides to take us out. So why worry about it?
Posted by: Trek at May 9, 2008 5:35 AM
Hey Trek..I agree with a bit of what you say, in so much as not worrying about every trendy cause that comes along and I very much take stock in being dubious about what I haven’t seen, touched or felt in some way. That is in fact why I support efforts to reduce our use of fossil fuels and technological improvements which make their use less offensive to the environment overall. From the tone of your post, I get the impression you haven’t been following my insightful comments on this blog, so I will summarize briefly.
The basis of my opinion is if we are to err, better to err on the side of caution. It is the conservative approach.
I never watched Inconvenient Truth, and I don’t read Gore unless someone publishes material related to him that I happen to want to read. What I have seen is the shoreline where I live continuously erode for decades. It is now a serious issue. I hobbled along the beach two days ago to see for myself the damage from this years storm surges and it is significant. The worst I have seen in 5 decades. For ex. One beach front lot close to me lost it’s entire frontage and it’s 3 ft. sq. cement block seawall lays on the beach in front of it. Another property had its conventional railroad tie wall destroyed and will need to be rebuilt completely. Plus they lost 5 to 6 ft. of earth behind it. I have twice posted links substantiating a 1 to 2 mm per year increase in the height of the ocean which translates into 1.5 metres of lost frontage per mm. This being an increase from .01 to .02 mm in centuries prior to the 20th.
I lived through the winters of the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and they cannot be compared to the last 2 decades. The most significant aspect being they were relatively predictable. Now, winter starts later and spring comes much earlier. It was 20 degrees here on the east coast two days ago. The ice pack was gone early this year, as it was last year.
These things “I” can see, feel and touch. That I take stock in. It just so happens, this supports Global warming/climate change scientist.
Briefly, I have also lived through the this is bad for you don’t eat it syndrome only to have them reverse their claims 10 to 20 years later. Or the this is good for you, eat it syndrome. Only to have them go into reverse 10 to 20 yrs. later. So I take a lot of it with a grain of salt too.
I also find society has a extraordinary tendency to swing from one extreme to the other before finding the middle ground some decades later. So I also bear that in mind.
As far as Santa is concerned, that’s isn’t a very appropriate analogy. And going about life with one’s head stuck in the sand and fingers in one’s ears going la la la la, I don’t hear you, isn’t very practical either. Don’t worry, be happy! There are far too many man made and caused, dangers that some would love for you to simply ignore because it’s profitable or expedient for them.
If you are not aware, you can’t plan for contingencies. This is where I take exception with manipulation and leading the herd mentality. I believe in examining things for there worth, and in the case of some uncertainty, erring on the side of caution if you can. Such is why I support new technologies that will significantly reduce damage done to the environment, the space we humans occupy on this earth and the air we breathe.
One last example. When I was young, wildlife in our area had nearly disappeared. When I went to the woods in the winter to cut firewood it was dead silent. No birds, no deer, barely a rabbit or a partridge left. In the spring there was no fish in the brooks either. This reality extended over a huge portion of my home Province. The reason was man made. Our forests had been sprayed extensively to control the spruce bud worm infestation and to slow it down so our local giant corporation could harvest as much wood as possible. This not only killed the bud worm, but infected just about everything else that was interconnected to the habitat. The birds and the fish ate the bugs and died. The rabbits, deer and moose ate the vegetation and died. I don’t know what happened to the Partridge, but they went away. Even the ducks and geese were few in comparison to prior. And the kick a** was that when the bugs were poisoned, the birds that ate bugs died and enough of the bugs survived that they destroyed entire species of trees such as the fir and in the end there was far more damage to the woodlots than if they had left it alone in the first place.
Moral to the story is that man’s tinkering with chemicals and other non natural agents can have devastating effects not only to wildlife, but to man too. So be ever vigilant. If not us, then who?
Hugger
The gregmiester says ..The basis of my opinion is if we are to err, better to err on the side of caution. It is the conservative approach……Now, winter starts later and spring comes much earlier. It was 20 degrees here on the east coast two days ago. The ice pack was gone early this year, as it was last year.
These things “I” can see, feel and touch. That I take stock in. It just so happens, this supports Global warming/climate change scientist.
First how is it erring on the cautious side to move mankind in a uncharted,untested direction,embracing biotechnology,nuclear power,and who know what else.
Second nobody is disputing the climate fluctuating,that is obvious since there was 2 miles of ice over my head 10000 years ago. How can you think the world is going to explode because the winters were different when you were a kid,and its been a warm spring where you are.
My best advice to you is to watch the Chicken Little on youtube.
My best advice to you is to watch the Chicken Little on youtube.
Posted by: bob at May 9, 2008 12:30 PM
Do you feel better now bob?
I did you the courtesy of replying to your earlier posts, but your response on nuclear power and biofuels was very telling. I don’t need your advice bob. You on the other hand could use a down home heaping helping.
Hugger
History will make one of us a fool Greg. You are riding the wave of the latest hystaria , Do you know how many times this has happened before? There is nothing new here.
“Posted by: Greg G at May 8, 2008 4:10 PM
There have been a number of factual based posts presented even on this blog that contradict just about everything you say, regarding climate change so you wasted your time and the time of everyone who read your drivel.
As for the rest of your childish rant, you certainly display the mentality of your kind very well. I only read bits of your skin head mentality garbage but it was enough to know you need to grow up and stop playing for sympathy. I bet you just impressed the heck out of your Aryan brotherhood buddies with your internet bravado.
Hasta la vista baby!
Hugger”
Go f–k yourself you stupid twit!
You are obviously a legend in your own mind. Your pathetic ad hominem attacks speak for themselves.
A bit of light reading, if you can manage it with your obvious A.D.D.
Church, J.A. and J.M. Gregory. 2001: Changes in sea level, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, pp. 641–693.,UK and New York, NY: Cambridge University Press.
Davis, C. H., et al., 2005. Snowfall-driven growth in East Antarctic ice sheet mitigates recent sea-level rise. Science, 308, 1898-1901.
Wingham, D.J., A. Shepherd, A. Muir, and G.J. Marshall. 2006: Mass balance of the
Antarctic ice sheet. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A, 364, 1627-1635.
And please spare us the details of your noisy clumps through the bush, I remember the spraying very well, they flew two by two in refurbished P-40’s. We were taking as many salmon and cariboo as we wished, as well as moose, bear, rabbit and ptarmigan, those years and the years that followed. City f–kers like you are best keeping to fishing for gomgweg, stupid hugger s–t. I’m finished with you!
“gomgog” should be “gomgwej” look it up stupid tree fugger. BTW my son’s grandfather was in the camps in Poland, so that’s two. If you hear a wizz, that will be the last thing you hear fugger.
Posted by: Greg G at May 10, 2008 4:43 AM
Obviously you don’t read well, so I will print clearly these words from above;
“Take your extended flamewars to private email.”
So go email your Aryan brotherhood buddies. And quit playing for sympathy, baby. Don’t forget to wipe your chin when you take that wizz.
I’ll be bock, baby!
The Huggenator