Sat-Tue: Windy, widespread rain and snow changing over to all snow Sunday. Snowfall will be heavy at times with considerable blowing and drifting of snow likely. Blizzard or near blizzard conditions will develop in parts of the province Sunday and Monday. Moisture totals will be 15 to 40 millimeters with local totals of 50 or more. Snow accumulations will range from of 12 to 30 centimeters with potentials for up to 40 centimeters if the storm is as intense as some model data suggests. Western and northern Saskatchewan will get the greatest snow.
Highs: 3 to 6 southwest and west central, 9 to 12 southeast, 4 to 7 east central, and 0 to 3 north; Daily high temperatures will be falling during this period especially in southern areas.
Lows: -11 to -8 southwest, -13 to -10 west central and north, and -8 to -5 east central and southeast
Winds: North wind 20 to 30 km/hr with higher gusts Saturday increasing tothe range of 25 to 50 km/hr with gusts to 65 km/hr Sunday and Monday. Winds will turn to the west northwest and diminish back to 20 to 30 km/hr Tuesday.
So much for just the lefties engaging in conspiracy theories.
Tin Foil hats anyone? I have them in Ruby Red, Flaming Orange and Indigo Blue.
Hugger
Jay Leno called global warming: “spring”.
Kate – always look at the positive side! This just might prevent ‘Worn’ from wanting to move to Delisle.
I want to see Al Gore and Suzuki move into condos, thats leadership not endless talk.
Oh my, Dan. You’re late to the party and didn’t bring your own beer…and you’re insulting the host of the party, too. You are a cad.
So, you are relying on “experts” eh? Similar “experts” claimed that:
– lizards were the descendents of dinosaurs and that the science was settled…until someone showed more compelling evidence that BIRDS are the descendents of dinosaurs
– ulcers were caused by stress and the science was settled…until someone proved that they were caused by bacteria
– and so on ad nauseum (boring…we’ve been through this before…every month, you’ll hear stories from scientists that exclaim “this completely changes our understanding of…”)
Human understanding and science never stops changing and improving. The science is never settled. You are a complete moron to think otherwise.
Dan,
You don’t seem to be stupid, so can’t you think of the many reasons why temperatures have risen by a whole 0.7 degrees Celsius over the last *ONE HUNDRED YEARS* – a period during which atmospheric CO2 doubled. Urban sprawl increasing the heat island effect; air conditioning was relatively rare before WWII, and very common afterwards; old temperature stations were often out on grassy fields, whereas now they are often placed over paved surfaces. Study after study has shown the Antarctic ice cap is still roughly the same size as it was nearly a century ago.
So what I want to know is “Where’s the beef?”. We aren’t seeing the dramatic rises in annual temp that most models predict; we aren’t seeing the rising seas that are constantly being predicted. Like I said, I’m just a stupid engineer, but when you have a theory that doesn’t predict what happens accurately – and often predicts the reverse of actual events – I think the theory is flat out wrong.
When your banker tells you to be fiscally responsible, he in fact is acting as the agent of the CEO of the Bank, right?
In the case of the CIBC, in 2006 the published figure for the CEO’s compensation was 9.42 million. So he can lavish himself with luxuries while preaching beans and wieners for the masses.
So how is the size of Gore’s and Suzuki’s house relevant?
It’s like yowling about Suzuki’s bus. How’s he supposed to get around? Buy a bike? Might need a few mods to get to some places.
Bus bus bus…fuss fuss fuss…
Hugger
Why is it that the scientists against AGW are more visible, senior and credible than the so-called “vast majority” who agree? Why do these vast majority of scientists remain anonymous? Why don’t Al Bore and Dr. Fruit Fly publicly debate anybody? Why does Wikipedia strictly police their climate change articles, eliminating factual counter arguments, making sure that only lying propoganda prevails?
How can leftists demand that Canada cut back greenhouse gases, while at the same time supporting population increase through immigration?
Why are leftists against Nuclear energy, which produces zero greenhouse gases?
Why do most leftists refer to a vast amount of pro AGW evidence but never reveal it?
Why is Al Bore still showing his discredited charts and graphs?
Ok, enough of this gup gup.
For those who would like scientific evidence, I suggest you begin at David Suzuki’s sight then google to your hearts content. It should keep you busy for a while.
Going outside of that box, let’s look at this in other ways.
First, are all the people and world leaders who have stated their support and belief in Global Warming idiots?
I asked earlier, is the Conservative Party of Canada lying when they say they accept this as reality? Nobody answered.
Moving on; what are the benefits and negatives?
Long list. Everything from more mass transit in times when fuel costs are going through the roof, to new technologies and the incentive to pursue them. There is housing, heating, alternate fuel, there are even people who have come up with engines that run by virtual perpetual motion to the discovery of how to make salt water burn to temperatures sufficient to run steam turbines. Tata motors of India, the ones who recently acquired Jaguar and Rover are going to build a five seater that runs on AIR! I found this link quickly;
http://www.topnews.in/now-tata-come-out-five-seat-concept-car-runs-air-220805
We have ZENN electric car manufacturing here in Canada who are trying to market their LSV’s here, but no go thanks to our governments. They are marketing in other countries. Not to be deterred, they are working on a broader range and faster vehicles. I hope their money doesn’t run out on account of government stonewalling.
I could go on, but will move to the next consideration.
It’s going to cost some money, ok. Everything costs money and if it’s spent on developing another gas guzzler, that’s ok by some. But if it’s spent on windmills and moon shine apparatus’ (bio fuel distilling mechanisms”), well that’s not so good to them. In many European countries, they don’t bury trash, they don’t just compost human waste, they actually use it to power things like Electricity plants. They are so far ahead of us in these areas, its scary.
Now, I could argue for pages, but lets just consider what harm this save the planet program is going to do, or rather what good will come of it.
Cleaner air. People like me won’t be using twice the med’s to breathe if they live in some urban areas.
Cleaner water and natural habitats. Lakes, rivers, groundwater and such.
Renewable, easily accessible and cheap sources of energy.
Oil companies become just another company instead of puppet masters.
Home heating and cooling systems that cost virtually nothing to operate.
Reduction in highway usage, construction and maintenance costs.
Reduced noise levels.
New jobs to develop and implement new technologies and their usage.
OPEC becomes a small player.
George Bushco. goes hunting with Cheney.
So what do we have to gain and what do we have to lose?
For me, its not so much the science as it the common sense and what I can see, feel and touch. I know in the past 5 decades the weather has shifted greatly and I’ve lived across an expanse of 2000 klm during that time. I lived through multiple winters that were consistently cold, heavy snows, started early and finished late. Not like now. Not like this past decade.
Hugger
All politicans believe in Climate Change because it is always changing…hot, cold, hot, cold. They also believe in global warming-because they have to!!
Today, 18 April 2008, the usually useless Blub and Wail has an obituary of Ed Lorenz and his work on chaose theory. In essence he showed why weather is not predictable for more than about tthree days in advance.
It’s well worth reading – it’s not political, and Ed Lorenz struck me when I met him 20 years ago as a decent sort of person as well as a good scientist.
Kyoto is NOT about polution ! Never was.
Google ‘biofuels” – even fanatic greens are admiting the mistake.
The Hudson Bay Company’s weather data (couple of centuries) shows many decadal climate swings (Read; CLIMATE CHANGE)
Sorta puts our ego-centrist ‘but-the-last-decade-was-warm-blah-blah’ into context.
Posted by: ron in kelowna at April 18, 2008 1:09 PM
Do you want to address the points or do you prefer drive by smears? Keep up your subscription to the Farmers Almanac.
Hugger
Hugger/Glen: As with Dan, you are late to the party. We’ve been over this at SDA a thousand times already.
Yes, good, agreed…let’s reduce pollution, let’s increase the use of alternate fuels, let’s use more nuclear, let’s improve transit (but our population density is NOT enough to warrant it except in the biggest of cities)…all that good stuff, just like you said. We’ve argued that and agreed to it before whole-heartedly (although petroleum will STILL be the most cost-effective fuel for many years to come).
BUT…we will NOT pay carbon taxes and we will NOT pay carbon indulgence fees to China, India and Russia so that THEY can pollute the world and get paid to do it. Kyoto is a ponzi scheme.
Okay? Are you up to speed yet? And if you think we’re unedumacated, then hows about you mosey on to Kate’s posting about “Reader Occupation Survey” in her best-of list. Engineers, geologists, scientists, etc. are a significant number of the posters here…me, I’m a Professional Engineer.
By the way, what is YOUR education and professional background?
But don’t try suggesting that we consult a fruit fly geneticist for information on climatology…that’s just silly.
Hugger and Dan,
Endorsement by politicians proves nothing.
To politicians, “global warming” means more — more and bigger Government, more and nastier police, more and more expensive patronage, and more more MORE taxation to cover it. All of these are Good Things to the political class.
What puzzles us (to put it mildly) is the enthusiastic response. The very same people who shriek in agony if $1 is spent on military equipment, who scream like stuck pigs at the slightest hint of intrusion on “indigenous folkways”, who gather by hundreds to march in the streets protesting “illegal wiretapping”, are slathering for it. More cops! More taxes! More intrusions! More, better, and and more forceful intrusions into the lives of ordinary citizens! Let us have Government committees to decide whether or not people can have blenders — certainly a waste of perfectly good energy! And are not merely willing, but anxious to the point of paranoia, to cherrypick data, misrepresent scientific results, and viciously attack, misrepresent, and flatly lie about anyone who questions the dogma.
“Climate” has always changed. A thousand years ago people were farming in Greenland, growing wine-grapes in Thuringia, and living in large numbers in Chaco Canyon and Angkor Wat; a few centuries later the Thames froze, with people ice-skating under London Bridge. There are still polar bears, and there is no record of Acre being inundated by seawater, so even if global warming is real there is no reason to expect catastrophe. And accurate thermometers were invented, and accurate records began to be kept, during the Dalton Minimum, a time of low solar output that resulted in ten-meter snowbanks as far south as Kansas; the record is biased by that. The situation is not “unprecedented”, and Mann is a damnable, palpable, bald-faced liar.
We get accused of not being “concerned”. That, too, is DPBFL. What we are not is sufficiently panicked to turn our entire lives and fortunes over to people not fit to manage a Queen Street bar-fight. Why are you?
Regards,
Ric
Eeyore at April 18, 2008 2:15 PM
My credentials. That would take a while. It encompasses everything from the Military to Computer Networking specialist. Also farming, taxi driver, auto and industrial mechanic, long time business owner and more. I think if you really read my post and absorb it, you will realize that its basis is common sense. Where do you go to get certified in that? Once you figure it out, kindly let them know in Ottawa.
You say many of you have credentials. I say that’s nice. I’m pleased for you. I graduated Summa cum laude from the University of life, so don’t try switching the train. I worked for the Railways too. Where in my post did you find a reference to Kyoto?
I began working when I was 16. Actually before that if you want to include family farming.
Oh, and I’m pleased to be afforded the opportunity to debate with such distinguished people. I guarantee, you will find it interesting.
If you are as you say, a professional, why do you feel it appropriate to refer to Suzuki as a fruit fly geneticist and engage in being condescending? Do you feel your qualifications allows you such latitude? Do you feel your experience and knowledge is so superior?
I am also pleased that you have had this discussion, and arrived at a destination which encompasses 29% of the population. The other 71% seem to favor the other position on this matter.I find, that once those who can be easily lead, are, the debate degrades to a chorus of head bobbers. You wouldn’t include yourself in that description would you?
You refer to limited population base, and then say except for the cities. Well, other than some mega projects, where does the offending pollution/Co2 come from in appreciable quantities other than the cities? Let’s not argue China and India ok? The money didn’t sprout on trees. It came from disgruntled corporate interests who saw the opportunity for the South to rise again. Ponder that.
Having said that, I’m going to show you how a critical thinker operates. It’s hard road lad. The social degradation of North America and Europe have brought this about. The result is money moving away. That does not excuse those who profess patriotism, and pursue unbridled greed. It’s just an assessment of reality. Common sense. This is not the first time in the annals of History, that this sentiment has existed.
As I said, University of Life, Summa cum laude.
Please post a link to your references, I would very much like to read them.
Hugger
What we are not is sufficiently panicked to turn our entire lives and fortunes over to people not fit to manage a Queen Street bar-fight. Why are you?
Regards,
Ric
Posted by: Ric Locke at April 18, 2008 4:19 PM
Ah Grasshoppa, you misunderstand me. I agree with you in respect to the erosion of our freedoms. I understand the morass of bureaucratic indulgence. I have felt the steel of the apathetic, condescending and lazy bureaucrat. And now that I am empowered with the free speech of the Internet, I will not let them forget it, until the reaper comes for his debt.
Unlike many, I will not be duped by false idols, regardless of political orientation. I refuse to follow the ideology professed by a puppet like George Jr, who can’t even manage to quote “fool me once” properly. I understand well the effect of the influence from the US government and its purveyors of propaganda.
I also understand that our political situation in Canada has declined in step. Studying the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party of Canada is what has lead me to this conclusion.
Hugger
Greg/Hugger: “why do you feel it appropriate to refer to Suzuki as a fruit fly geneticist?”.
Umm, gosh, Mr. Life Experience, I guess I would call him a “fruit fly geneticist” because he is a geneticist who made a name for himself studying fruit flies. Please note that he is NOT a climatologist and did NOT study climatology.
If I want to know about genetics, I would talk to a geneticist…when I want to know about climatology, I would talk to a climatologist. Or did you not come to that realization in your Summa Cum Laude of Life Experience?
I am NOT going to post my references…they are readily available in Kate’s archives from dozens, if not hundreds, of posts she has done on Y2Kyoto and Settled Science. Tell you what…you show me yours first. You are the one who started talking down to us SDA-ers first, so you must be speaking from a position of knowledge and authority…so go ahead, give ’em up. I’ll warn you though…we’ve seen and heard it all before.
I questioned your education only because you were posting in a condescending manner to us…and I’m aware of the wide variety of education and professions of the SDA commenters. I am fully aware that education does not guarantee intelligence, so the quip about education was just a bit of a backhand against your condescension.
First, are all the people and world leaders who have stated their support and belief in Global Warming idiots?
No (not all), but they can see a way to soak us all for more money and usurp more power for themselves.
Eeyore at April 18, 2008 8:46 PM
Speaking of condescending, I mention again fruit fly geneticist. And in your humble and expert opinion, that summarizes Suzuki’s accomplishments and expertise. I would also note how Mr. Suzuki’s detractors like to refer to the size of his house and that nasty bus he travels in. Convincing arguments indeed.
Quote from yours;
“I am NOT going to post my references”
Then we have nothing further to discuss at this time. I gave up fishing when I lost a good part of my knee.
I will post further supporting material incrementally. Please feel free to post yours to rebut. No farmers Almanacs please.
You might want to have a gander over on the blog entry of April 18, 2008
Y2Kyoto: Bomb Kyoto!
and read a post by Samuel; Samuel at April 18, 2008 8:10 PM
Hugger
The climate change/global warming debate is not a science debate but a political/economic debate. The IPCC are non-science bureaucratic organ whose mandate is to find a relationship between carbon and global warming and then build a case for nuclear power.
The non-governmental members of the IPCC, i.e. scientists are pissed that they are being manipulated into supporting the “cause’ or lose funding.
It’s politics and control – not science.
It’s a scam supported by ignorant people who think the sky is falling because of the exploits of the Goreacle and fruit fly experts.
Trolls, spam – same thing. Perhaps trolls can be eliminated the same way google’s gmail virtually eliminates spam from your inbox. (with trolls, you’d think embarasement alone would do it)
sda, and millions of others, would belong to a master troll registry. When ever one blog site bans a troll, that troll would also be baned from the other millions of sites. One delete would be worth a million. Problem solved.
Never allow truth and common sense to stand in the way of your head bobbing. Couldn’t have that, now could we?
Hugger
“Quite right…. and that’s why “greenhouse gases” play such a huge (to us) role. Those “minor greenhouse gases” have the ability to apply a tiny, fractional increase in radiative forcing.
Posted by: Samuel at April 18, 2008 8:10 PM”
The global warming advocates place so much credence into the computer models that they believe them to be true. The above statement is an example of that.
The smugness of these people know no bounds. We are all just a bunch of dumb f*cks for not buying into the line.
The earth was warmer before, the earth was cooler before, there was less CO2 before, there was more CO2 before.
I don’t trust the advocates. They are agenda driven politico’s pushing this, not scientists. I would not let an environmentalist run a popsicle stand for the public.
Any politician who stands up and says that they support Kyoto is irresponsible and is not looking after the public interest. A “green” politician is chasing a tax increase and looking for justification.
“Quite right…. and that’s why “greenhouse gases” play such a huge (to us) role. Those “minor greenhouse gases” have the ability to apply a tiny, fractional increase in radiative forcing.
Posted by: Samuel at April 18, 2008 8:10 PM”
The global warming advocates place so much credence into the computer models that they believe them to be true. The above statement is an example of that.
The smugness of these people know no bounds. We are all just a bunch of dumb f*cks for not buying into the line.
The earth was warmer before, the earth was cooler before, there was less CO2 before, there was more CO2 before.
I don’t trust the advocates. They are agenda driven politico’s pushing this, not scientists. I would not let an environmentalist run a popsicle stand for the public.
Any politician who stands up and says that they support Kyoto is irresponsible and is not looking after the public interest. A “green” politician is chasing a tax increase and looking for justification.
Glen/Hugger: All you have done is talk in a condescending manner, as if you know better. You have not explained the physics or the chemistry…you are just promising to post links to other “believers”.
I don’t have the time to search through Kate’s archives and post the relevant links to the “skeptics”…I have a job. But all we would do is trade links between “believers” and “skeptics” and neither one of us would be convinced by the other’s links.
So, the upshoot to this whole discussion, we’re wasting our times trying to educate each other.
And I still don’t understand why you don’t like referring to a fruit fly geneticist as a fruit fly geneticist. Don’t like the truth?
Eeyore at April 19, 2008 8:40 AM
I attempted to post the Battery technology information, twice, but it may have been caught in a filter as a message saying it will be reviewed came up.
You can read it at your leisure and do with it as you choose. If your mind is closed, then that is your choice. There are others who may take an interest.
Hugger