…. who has spent 25 years observing and predicting ice patterns in the Arctic, and now does the same remotely from Ottawa for shipping company Fednav, said that it is important to consider differences between climate change and decadal oscillations.
“Climate change is really slow, long-term creeping change over centuries,” he said. Decadal oscillations, on the other hand, are changes in energy patterns around the world that come and go at cyclical intervals, leading to hurricanes, causing various shifts in sea-level pressure and ice formation.
He said that scientists are still figuring out the relationship between climate change and decadal oscillations. “It’s not really well understood,” he added. Despite this, some media mistakenly report the effects of decadal oscillations as caused by climate change.
For example, though a recent report by CBC suggested that a huge ice fracture in the Arctic’s Beaufort Sea area may be attributed to climate change, Gorman dismissed the claim.
“I see this every year,” he said.
Given that our monitoring of the Arctic Sea Ice still has significant errors, hasn’t been around for very long (especially in any amount of detail needed to monitor long term change), and doesn’t include the effects of Polar Bear Dung then anyone suggesting climate change and using Sea Ice data as proof should be “put out to sea on an Ice Flow to die”
This is similar to a previous story about the record number of ships that have made the polar passage this year. Well, of course, they didn’t really have such a thing as satellite monitoring and navigation even 30 years ago. So is it any surprise that we are getting better at it nowadays.
So when the CBC attributes it to climate change was that peer reviewed, paid for by exxon.
Course they wouldn’t say if it was would they.
Every local fart of the local weather is attributable to climate change but world wide conditions that don’t, are just local anomalies and within normals.
Hasn’t anybody figured out yet(besides thinking people) that the cult of Goracle attributes EVERY little blip to climate change. So was the recent fall and rebound in the stock markets also caused by AGW?? And BTW,glaciers are CONSTANTLY calving off icebergs.
melting of floating ice in the Arctic does not change sealevel. Archimedes figured that out 2400 years ago. CBCpravda has not figured it out yet.
Melting Antarctic ice on the land would contribute to a rising sea level – only one problem, the icecap is growing , not shrinking . it is caused by a wobble in the orbit. Mars has a similar disproportionate icecap distribution.
It’s fun to argue the science, but even more fun to listen to the liturgy sung in the Church of Gaia. It’s not hard to understand why a Bangladeshi or Chadian might be a tad concerned, but the neuroticism of the Canadian climate change crowd is a hoot. Our whole national self-identity is built on tales of heroic physical and mental struggles against the lethal, merciless cold and the joy and release that the spring warmth brings. Even the Inuit hate the dark and the cold. No country in the world would benefit more from upward climate change than we. Yet here we are panicking 24/7 about melting ice.
Anthropogenic climate change is largely a myth? Bummer.
Hey Cal2, does the expansion of water when it freezes have any effect on the overall volume when it melts again? Physics is not my thing, as you may have guessed. What I mean is, , if I draw a line on a glass of water with an ice cube in it, will the water line be the same when the ice is melted (assuming no evaporation)? I pride myself on not being afraid to ask the stupid questions.
Don’t tell me. A polar bear fell into that fissure, and now the pups are orphaned, and the earth is going to come to an end, and I must put out my recycling, and nuclear power is bad, and if you don’t use a euro-weenie push mower you will go to hell, and who cares if millions have died without DDT, and on and on and on.
Will the leftarded morons ever drop this AGW bulls@#$ ?
OC; YOU have ice,you have a glass and water,try it.In fact,what you should do is fill a container with ice cubes then put water in it up to the brim,put it in a pan and SEE how much water runs into the pan when the ice melts.Then you will KNOW who is telling the truth.Is this a result of not teaching physics and chemistry in our schools?
Here’s another natural phenomena that can cause climate change: Volcanic eruptions
Volcanoes are very environmentally unfriendly because they release tons of gases, such as sulphur dioxide and CO2 into the environment, they destroy large areas with pyroclastic flows, lava flows and lahars when they erupt.
For example, 1815 was known as the year without a summer when Mount Tambora erupted on a massive scale(The largest seen in recent times. Krakatoa(1883), Novarupta(1912) and Mount Pinatubo (1991) had nothing on Tambora). So much ash was sent into the atmosphere that temperatures around the world were reduced, resulting in widespread crop faliures and snow was even seen in the eastern United States in the middle of the summer.
Mount Pinatubo did not release as much ash as Tambora during its 1991 eruption, but it caused severe damage to the Phillipines by devasating large areas with ashfalls, pyroclastic flows and in the aftermath, lahars, or volcanic mudflows. The ash traveled long distances from the mountain, and obscured the atmosphere just enough to cause global temperatures to be lowered by 2 to 3 degress celsius.
Today finds me at the mouth of the Mackenzie River, Latitude 69 degrees 12 minutes North Longitude 135 degrees 37 minutes West and I can assure you… GLOBAL WARMING is nowhere in sight. A polar bear and her cub were spotted yesterday, ten kilometers east of camp, looking for shelter.
There are strange things done
Neath the Midnight Sun
By the men who toil for oil.
They tell us what happened but ignore what is happening. The Beufort sea freeze up is only a bit behind last year and almost at the mean for 1979-2000. Open water cools off a lot faster than ice covered water. The site below
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
shows that the global sea ice coverage is near the mean.
La Nina is in full swing and should be in effect till the fall of 2008. Solar flux is very low. It looks like most indicators are favouring cooling for the next while.
Yep, I’ve got about 3″ of global warming in my driveway right now, forecast is for about a foot of it. Or possibly freezing rain. Ew. Tire chains.
Funny how with all the global warming we have -more- snow this year than last. Warmers will accuse me of mistaking anecdote for analysis, memory for measurement.
I refer all’a y’all to Kate’s picture of the barbecue under the official NASA thermometer. Garbage in, garbage out. Its a purely political fad, and like the hula hoop its days are numbered.
Bill Clinton had a headline this week that sums up and perfectly frames the whole warming/climate change farce. He said “We just have to slow down our economy and cut back our greenhouse gas emissions ’cause we have to save the planet for our grandchildren.” That’s pretty much the whole thing in a nutshell. Emphasis on the nut part.
As an aside, this is the very FIRST TIME I’ve ever learned anything remotely useful from the Daily Kos or any Lefty blog. Turns out Clinton was taken out of context! Poor baby, now he knows what Republicans and CPC guys feel like.
What he went on to say was that starving to save the planet is a stupid idea because the Chicoms aren’t going to join in, so maybe we should grow the economy with some kind of sustainability blah blah and other happy horse shite. Moving his lips and it sounds good but nothing supportive of the Greenies is coming out. (See the whole thing at http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/8637.html)
Which proves my point even better. Clinton is a genius of slip ‘n slide slimeball politics. If he’s BSing the Greenies, he thinks they are joining the anti-gunners on the trash heap of discarded Democrat constituencies.
As an indicator of the Main Chance, Clinton is without peer. I rest my case…and a good thing too, it was getting heavy.
cal2
“Archimedes figured that out 2400 years ago.”
Archimedes then took to the streets naked, …, crying “Eureka!” “I have found it!.
So is he also responsible for setting out the format for Pride parades?
In response to the CBC article, I sent the folowing to them as a suggestion for a story on the ‘global warming issue’.
Two comments in your overzealous article:
1. “Huge fracture in Beaufort Sea ice pack worries scientists” According to other “experts” this is a normal occurrence. What is certain, is that we do not have near enough history to be drawing such conclusions.
2. “climate change continues to warm the Arctic, according to a leading climate researcher”. This is a very ridiculous comment considering that “as we speak” and since October, our Arctic has been at least at normal if not slightly below normal winter temperatures. IE A normal, ‘cold as hell’ winter. This person talks about the ice melting, nonsense, ice does not melt at minus 40 to minus 50 deg C which much of the Arctic has been consistently for the past three months. With three months of very cold temps to go, the ice will cover nearly the entire Arctic (it has already)and have sufficient thickness that it will not melt next summer.
Please ask your expert to explain why the very cold weather this winter nearly everywhere in Canada? Sure he will say it is caused by La Nina or El Nino, and what causes these phenomena, might it not have something to do with the planet’s oscillations and absolutely nothing to do with green house gasses?
It is time for you (the CBC), to get off your ‘global warming’ agenda and regain some balance and objectivity. Since you like to put together ‘objective’ documentaries on major events that have a profound effect on our lives, take a ‘fact finding’ trip to where all of this globally warmed, melting ice is actually occurring, where the cause of future world flooding is happening, where the polar bears will drown, and where real climate change is actually taking place. EG charter an aircraft loaded up with winter survival equipment and supplies, bring your leading spokes people on global warming (Mansbridge et al), invite David Suzuki and Al Gore to accompany you; then fly to Ellesmere Island for a two week stay. While at Ellesmere, (Eureka) witness first hand the unusual phenomena of ‘ice melting’ on a minus 50 deg day, then cut holes in the ice for polar bears to go for a dip in as they may not find any water to go fishing in until next June. Search the shorelines for carcasses of drowned polar bears. Witness how these endangered species fear going into the water for fear of drowning. Record the amount of ice melt during your two week stay then extrapolate that data for the next ten years projections. Take air samples for CO2 analysis. Visit the Inuit at Griese Fiord, get their views on GHGs, global warming and how the declaration of the polar bears as an endangered species will affect their lives. Have Linden McIntyre put the documentary together. This could be an award winning documentary and would get a tremendous amount of attention in the GHG community world wide. And if it was really objective, it might cause a whole lot of objective rethinking and research of the whole global warming issue.
It is time to get off the obsession with climate change.
I think Archimedes had switched from taking cold baths to warm ones.
Since the CBC has absolutely NO credibility why bother with them?
The real culprits in this matter are now the politicians who are enacting policies based on the fraud!
Go after these b*stards before it’s too late.
OC
To your question: “if I draw a line on a glass of water with an ice cube in it, will the water line be the same when the ice is melted (assuming no evaporation)?”
THe answer is yes.
Lewis, how many people are going to tune into CBC to hear “Nothing much happened today…everything’s going well!”? While I detest the media and CBC, you’ve got to understand that they are ALWAYS going to look at the sensational side of ANYTHING in order to drive up viewership and attract advertizing dollars.
So, in part, the media will NEVER stop with the AGW stuff until enough people figure out it is bunk and start tuning out…drops in ad revenues will force them to look for OTHER sensational stories.
It’s like the story of the frog and the scorpion…it’s in their nature!
I posed my stupid ice cube question because I thought maybe the ice returning to a state that takes up less volume would actually lower the overall level. Evidently the stupidity of my question has been confirmed. Thanks.
There’s no such thing as a stupid question. However there is such a thing as a stupid scientist, re: anyone insisting on agw.
Side note: The region of the Antarctic that produces the ‘Rhode-Island-sized’ icebergs we hear about, such as the one in ‘The Day After Tomorrow’ (where the nation of Canada does not even Exist), is 2% of the entire polar cap. Those icebergs are less than 2% of that 2%. They’ve been breaking off from the Ross Ice Shelf for at least 20 million years.
“While I detest the media and CBC, you’ve got to understand that they are ALWAYS going to look at the sensational side of ANYTHING in order to drive up viewership and attract advertizing dollars.”
CBC is not concerned with advertising dollars. They have an agenda.
I agree that MSM sensationalizes stories to increase market share but why can’t just one them venture forth with the real sensational story; “AGW is the Hoax of the Century”?
it does my heart good to see that global warming has taken over ontario and especially toronto today. now they will cry for the canadian military to come home from afganistan and do what it was designed to do in the leftoid land….shovel snow in toronto.
i’m hoping for colder temps in hog town
Posted by: Grandad at February 1, 2008 10:52 AM
“There are strange things done
Neath the Midnight Sun
By the men who toil for oil.”
The arctic trails have their secret tales
That would make your climes turn cold.
The northern lights have seen queer sights
But the queerest, by God, they swore,
Was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge
When we cremated dat feller Gore.
Stubby:
I second your motion.
Had to laugh at the WWF ad about how the poor ol’ polar bear didn’t have enough arctic ice to cling to and, BTW, send your money.
Fundamentalist environmentalism is as dangerous as any fundamentalism (my definition … a group that purports the we’re right and everybody else is wrong … the ‘settled science’ part is also a big clue).
Now Gore-for-Fee was from Tenessee
Where the cotton blooms and blows.
Why he left his home in the south to roam
’round the pols, God only knows.
He was into debits, but the land of credits
Seemed to hold him like a spell,
Though he’d often say in his homey way
That he’d sooner freeze in Hell.
yoop, That was a pretty cute take on the lines of Robert Service. I hope you will not mind if I quote it here in the hysterical, PC Yukon. Not 30 years ago the Land of the Midnight Sun was still Robert Service country – it was the wildest, most tolerant, most PC incorrect place in Canada …then the Conservatives stayed home on voting day and we got a Dipper government. It has been a icy, fast slide DOWN. The Yukon MP Larry Bagle is the fella that wants to erect a statue of Comrade Turdo!! I cringe in shame when I think what Klondikers like Robert Service would have to say about that!
My apologizes to Robert W. Service 😉
The question about ice in a glass of water and what will happen to the level of the water has more than one answer. To get the correct answer
you need to know the initial temp of the water, the initial temp of the ice. The mass of the water and the mass of the ice. You also need to know if this is fresh water/ice or salt water/ice.
Fresh water shrinks until it reaches 4 degrees C then expands until it freezes. If the initial temp of the water is around 4 degrees C the ice will cool it down causing it to expand. If the ice can only lower the water temp to 4 degrees then the level will go down as fresh water is most dense at 4 degrees.
Ahh, Lake Lebarge… brings back memories of wandering around Deep Creek around break-up and taking non-stop pictures. Beautiful country.
‘Course, Jema’s right — the place is serious PC-ville. Not a shocker, really, given that the enviro-weenies have replaced the real, hardy Yukoners of times gone by.
Oh well, it’s still my second-favorite place to be in Canada… just behind the Whiteshell in Eastern Manitoba.
Here’s an interesting statement from
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=bigfoot-anatomy&page=1
“Neither side can win its case without a Sasquatch specimen or fossil or without the true confessions of a fleet of perhaps fleet-footed hoaxers. In the meantime, observers watch a debate that is striking in that both sides use virtually the same language, refute each other’s interpretations with the same tone of disbelief and insist they have the identical goal: honoring the scientific method. And the question of how science on the fringe should be dealt with remains open: some observers say that Meldrum, who has been lambasted by colleagues and passed over for promotion twice, should just be left alone to do his thing; others counter that in this era of creationism, global warming denial, and widespread antiscience sentiment and scientific illiteracy, it is particularly imperative that bad science be soundly scrutinized and exposed.”
So according to Scientific American, which I thought was an excellent science magazine, global warming denial has the same scientific credibility as bigfoot hunting.
And why the term “denial”? It brings to my mind holocaust denial, which is even less credible than bigfoot, and a tad more odious.
How long did it take for global warming to move from fringe to mainstream? About five years? Seems kinda quick to me. Sorry this was so long. I’ll get my own damn blog maybe.
Oh you guys are gonna love this one:
From BBC Science (Jonathan Amos):
‘What maybe the oldest known remains of a polar bear have been uncovered on the Svalbard archipeligo in the Arctic.
The jawbone was pulled from sediments that suggest the specimen is perhaps 110,000 or 130,000 years old.’
‘If the jawbone’s staus is confirmed, and further discoveries can show the iconic Arctic beasts have a deeper evolutionary heritage, then the lookout for the animals may be more positive than some believe.’
‘And what’s interesting about that is that the Eeemian – the last interglacial – was MUCH WARMER THAN the (present) Holocene.
This is telling us that despite the ongoing warming in the Arctic today, maybe we don’t have to be quite so worried about the polar bear.’
So how many warming periods have these bears live thru?
I can hear all the polar bears yelling ‘but we want all the attention and blubbering about us.
We demand our Arctic-centric entitlements.’
Keep trying people, don’t give up.
Remember, if you admit that Climate Change is real, and caused by humans, the gay terrorists win!
And BTW,glaciers are CONSTANTLY calving off icebergs.
Probably because glaciers move, naturally, towards warmer temperatures. When they start to stop moving or start going backwards, THAT’S when I’ll start to worry.
Doncha just love how easy it is to use images to manipulate peoples’ emotions? Even better is to add an ominous-sounding soundtrack to the background.
“how many people are going to tune into CBC to hear “Nothing much happened today…everything’s going well!”
lets try this one
“Today we are going to tell you that global warming is a lie, sponsord by billions of dollars of government money, to foster polital agendas.”
hell even I would tune in.