“Make peace with us”. Or else;
Prominent Muslim scholars are warning that the “survival of the world” is at stake if Muslims and Christians do not make peace with each other.
In an unprecedented open letter signed by 138 leading Muslim scholars from every sect of Islam, the Muslims plead with Christian leaders “to come together with us on the common essentials of our two religions.”
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, and Pope Benedict are believed to have been sent copies of the document which calls for greater understanding between the two faiths.
The letter also spells out the similarities between passages of the Bible and the Koran.
The Muslim scholars state: “As Muslims, we say to Christians that we are not against them and that Islam is not against them – so long as they do not wage war against Muslims on account of their religion, oppress them and drive them out of their homes.”
The manager of a Christian bookstore in the Gaza Strip who was found dead last weekend was first publicly beaten and tortured by Islamic gunmen accusing him of spreading Christianity, according to witnesses and Palestinian security officials speaking to WND.
The body of Rami Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, reportedly was found Sunday riddled with gunshot and stab wounds. Ayyad had been abducted the previous night as he closed his shop, according to a local Christian group.
Ayyad, a Baptist, was accused by Gaza-based Islamic groups of engaging in missionary activity. His bookstore, owned by the Palestinian Bible Society, was firebombed in April after which he told relatives he received numerous death threats from Islamists.
You can’t accuse them of inconsistency.
The front page of your national newspaper features a galling attack on Christians in your own country, and you’re still on about Muslims in countries twelve time zones away?
Don’t pretend to care about Christians if you won’t stand up to them when they come under attack in your own country (and in the comments section of your blog, I might add).
Intimidation and threats from Muslims is set to become mainstream. Good. Westerners who enjoy not praying to Allah need to realize that these backwards fanatics want us dead or subjugated under their cult.
what madman would try to spread the christian word IN THE GAZA STRIP? besides, christians spend most of their time converting other christians.
Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly……..
Many in the West think that the lands in and/or around Israel belonged to Muslims. In fact, there used to be a large percentage of Christians. The Muslims are slowly but surely driving the Christians out.
An example is Bethlehem in Israel. Another example is the country of Lebanon.
The West appears to be very content with de facto Muslim aggression in these territories.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2564
And Hotair.com also has a link to the story.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali bluntly states in an interview that we are at war with Islam, it needs to be confronted and destroyed.
Islam guts the essence of Christianity by denying the divinity of Christ and his death on the cross. It then says “let’s make peace”. There is no peace to make. Islam is a johnny-come-lately revisionist religion. If Christianity is true in its essential claims, Islam is false.
A religion should not be respected either because it is ancient or held by a wide swath of the world’s population. It should be respected because it is a) true, and, b) beneficial in its effects when implemented according to its founder’s precepts.
“Ayaan Hirsi Ali bluntly states in an interview that we are at war with Islam”
Andrew bluntly states that Ali is a bald feminist atheist who once planned to sneak into Canada with bogus papers to make a bogus refugee claim. Try again.
I agree with you 100% Richard.
So why is it that Christians don’t come out and name Islam for the fraud it is? Why is it that when Muslims say they have Jesus too Christians don’t say “whoa whoa whoa, that guy your book has running around in Kashmir saying he’s not the son of god is a fake?”
Stupid liberals at work ….
In Toronto the Good …. Hallal food in cafeteria ….
U of T attempts to appease/accommodate the Muslim Student Association … falls flat…. NOT GOOD ENOUGH for the precious dears who can’t eat their hallal in peace with all that other evil stuff around!
Who is surprised? Leftards of the university faculty and staff….
It is stories like this one that assures me that George W Bush will go down in history as a great president. He was not shy about going out and killing these freaks of nature.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a great woman and a heroine. She too will find a place in the history books.
Andrew, you limp wristed jerk, get back under your bed.
“So why is it that Christians don’t come out and name Islam for the fraud it is?”
Perhaps they are too busy fending off attacks from – heh – “New York intellectuals”:
Slash-and-burn columnist Ann Coulter shocked a cable TV talk-show audience Monday when she declared that Jews need to be “perfected” by becoming Christians, and that America would be better off if everyone were Christian.
Coulter made the remarkable statements during an often heated appearance to promote her new book on advertising guru Donny Deutsch’s CNBC show “The Big Idea.”
In response to a question from Deutsch asking Coulter if “it would be better if we were all Christian,” the controversial columnist responded: “Yes.”
“We should all be Christian?” Deutsch repeated.
“Yes,” Coulter responded, asking Deutsch, who is Jewish, if he would like to “come to church with me.”
Deutsch, pressing Coulter further, asked, “We should just throw Judaism away and we should all be Christians?” She responded: “Yeah.”
Coulter deflected Deutsch’s assertion that her comments were anti-Semitic, matter-of-factly telling the show’s obviously upset host, “That is what Christians consider themselves: perfected Jews.”
Now, read the actual transcript:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301216,00.html
So Andrew …. just what do you consider to be OUR national newspaper?
Would that be the Globe & Mail???
Who would see the front page of this fishwrap …. and where?
Who would be surprised by anything they would print?
Apparently you would … so do share your insights!
I’ve always wondered…. Shiite or Sunni??
Seems as though, everyone who believes in such mystical claims (christian, muslim, jew.. etc. etc.) will fight no matter what faith.
Last time I checked, protestants don’t like catholics either. (vise versa)
I like to chant, ‘fight’ in the background. Only way to get rid of bogus beliefs is to let them kill each other for bogus reasons.
otherwise people get offended.. haha.
“The letter also spells out the similarities between passages of the Bible and the Koran.”
And by that line of thinking, Hong Kong counterfeiters could demand that the likes of Louis Vuitton and Dolce & Gabbana engage in a “constructive dialogue” with them, given the similarities between their products.
The Karan is no better/worse than the bible.
Apples and Oranges.
They both suggest killing anyone who doesn’t follow their beliefs. Great source for morality.
“The Karan (sic) is no better/worse than the bible”
Real swell bunch here at SDA. You should all be proud of yourselves for so courageously defending western civilization from idiots like the one above.
Mao killed 70 million – in peace time. Precisely how many more must die under atheism before we can agree that it is the greatest threat to humanity that has ever existed?
Who said I was athiest?
I merely have read the bible. Sorry.
Sorry, bzloki, but I don’t recall my parish priest ever telling us to kill our non-RC neighbours in the name of God. If he had, he’d have been laughed at. I, for one, don’t take the bible as the literal “Word of God” although the Ten Commandments are a good guide by which to live one’s life. Don’t screw your neighbour’s wife, don’t steal, don’t dis your parents, don’t overeat, etc. – makes for a peaceful society.
I think that you have framed this letter in a bit of a negative light – National Newswatch has a link to an article with less colour commentary. I think that this is a great opportunity for Muslim Leaders and Chrstians to point out to ordainary muslims that we are very much alike in our beliefs, preventing them from listening to the radical set. With the leaders in ecumenical agreement, it will be easier for the masses to see things the way they could be, preventing acts similar to the aformentioned abduction and torture.
bzloky. you could not have read the bible and say what you said.
@Andrew, 3:45 PM – “Coulter made the remarkable statements…”
What’s your point? You disagree? Fine, your loss. You think it “bad” to hold that view? You want a law outlawing opinion?
She’s not saying ‘convert or die!’. She is expressing a preference.
Why people are so shocked is…shocking.
(Actually, it is revealing)
“@Andrew, 3:45 PM – “Coulter made the remarkable statements…”
Those aren’t my words, tenny, I was merely quoting the article, which would have been obvious to you had you been of clearer mind. I recommend at least 15 minutes of chi’ha in the muu la’ak position daily for optimal brain thinking.
bzolki is totally correct…the Bible and the Koran are full of man made fairy tales, cave man rules and calls for violence against non-believers….written by men to control other men…and oh by the way ….unprovable. Christianity, although slightly more palitable to western values,can not and should not assume the moral high ground.
Exodus 22:20
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed
It says things like this more than once. It also says good things, but lets not cherry pick anymore. K?
Chi’ha and muu la’ak. Yup, damn fine positions to be in. I’ll remember that when I next find myself in a position that requires optimal brain thinking. Sounds to me like young Andrew could use a little ma’tu’ ri’ty.
If you ‘knew’ The One Who said that bzloki you would be humbled, not critical.
Salvation Army Captain Brekke was killed in Pakistan last week. We will never know if it was terrorist related. No one is saying.
See? I told you people this would happen.
I’ve been calling the Islamophobes here at SDA retards and traitors of western civilization for a year know because I correctly calculated that the war on Islam would certainly morph into a war on Christianity. And that is precisely what has happened.
I, and I alone, totally called it.
I don’t believe the letter from the Muslim scholars is as sinister as has been implied, nor can it be considered a threat. Rather, it is calling for reconciliation between the faiths. Implying that the survival of the world is at stake may not be so far-fetched, given the presence of nuclear weapons in Pakistan and possibly (soon) Iran.
As for the savage murder in Gaza, the terrorist group Hamas is in charge there, and can hardly be considered to represent mainstream Islam.
I don’t think the priests and bishops of the interfaith crowd [eg the Archbishop of Canterbury] realize what Muslims mean when they things like:
“As Muslims, we say to Christians that we are not against them – so long as they do not wage war against Muslims on account of their religion, oppress them and drive them out of their homes”
It sounds reasonable, or at least it would sound reasonable if a Christian or Buddhist said it. But what a Muslim means by ‘drive them out of their homes’ is a very different thing. It can include having a growing non-Muslim population like in Nigeria, or it could mean buying land from a Muslim like in Israel.
Basically everything we do short of quietly decomposing can be considered offensive or aggressive by one Muslim sect or another.
There is no space for dialogue. I hope that no one caves in and meets with these Muslim ‘Scholars’.
More people have died in the name of religion(any religion)than natural causes.Maybe we should just declare religion illegal?
good thought justthinkin…. but how would our masters keep us unwashed heathens in line?….we might even start thinking for ourselves!…that would never do!
Justthinkin,
You’re not that bright and can’t add. That was an absurd statement.
I’m no fan of religious nutters of any stripe but communism alone killed more than all religious persecution in the last 500 years if not in total.
As for natural causes, think of the billions of people who have come and gone.
Even as rhetorical excess it isn’t very bright.
The pope has already asked for dialogue on this.
The only thing stop this from going further is the problem of Apostasy in Muslim countries.
The pope doesn’t want further discussion until Muslims will accept Christians and Christian conversion in Muslim countries.
Christians often do Missionary work in places where they are not allowed. This is a Christian tradition stemming from St. Peter and Paul.
Christians understand the need for missionary work and are proud of the risks that missionaries take. Atheists and Agnostics will never understand it, because Muslim missionaries in Canada are not fearing for their life.
“Posted by: bluetech at October 11, 2007 4:44 PM”
– That’s nice.
But the same could be said about Allah.
I would rather think about things critically, than accept things because they are the ‘norm’.
No matter how humble I could feel afterwards.
Religion is the opium for the masses!
“I, and I alone, totally called it.”
Seriously, Andrew, you sound like a bright man, but most of the time you seem on the edge of a complete breakdown.
Awesome, andrew, just awesome. You, and you alone, “totally called it’. Awesome.
And you haven’t even mentioned Wikipedia yet.
I have just one problem, andrew – apart from your hubris. It’s something called ‘facts’ and ‘reason’.
You see, Andrew, I’m an atheist. Yes, yes. And I have a problem, just a slight problem, with your logic that makes a correlation into a causation.
Because Mao was an atheist, does not – factually or logically, – mean that atheism was the ‘root cause’ of communism’s murdering millions.
I’m sure you know that people of every religious belief have, in their time, murdered thousands and thousands.
No- it is utterly and totally irrelevant to do a ‘body count’ of these murders, and then, list ‘which religion killed the most/least people’ and try to set up some ethical scale. Irrelevant.
The problem, andrew, is that correlation doesn’t equal causality. And religion may have been a cultural belief justifying various murders, but, the root causes are, on that scale, always non-cultural and have to do with economic issues.
sceptic – your parish priest may not, now, be advocating war or murder, but, in other times, ie, several hundred years ago, I’d bet he was.
Christianity is quietly killing thousands of people daily…..the Vatigan’s middle ages stand against the use of condoms is wiping out countless Africans, while the religous GW Bush hides behind his church refusing to help fund stem cell research…a truly moral and progressive lot they are (as they continue down their one way street back to the time when you were stoned to death for saying the world was not the center of the universe!)
I would rather think about things critically, than accept things because they are the ‘norm’.
Oh the irony. You liberal idiots [redundancy] are too much; you haven’s had a critical thought in your short miserable life.
Lenin had it so right when he coined the term Useful Idiot and you, bzloki, wear the title proudly.
Obviously you have no idea why Marx coined the term, “religion is the opium of the masses.” Pay attention stupid and I’ll explain it to you………
………….As long as the people had a higher authority than man- -God- -they would not view the communist govt as the Supreme entity. The goal was then to destroy God and make the govt the highest authority; Marx wanted communist government to be the opium of the masses, religion stood in his way.
Millennia ago Muslims did not allow Jews to ride camels because it would put the Jews head above a Muslims and that’s not allowed by the “religion of peace” practitioners. The orthodox Jews of the time would be seen praying in a swaying/bouncing motion [like you would while riding a camel] which was a way of mocking the Muslims.
bzloki, I guess you never made it to the New Testament. (I guess you also never figured out that this oversight might weaken your paltry argument.)
You and valster are, I’m sorry to say, drive-by morons, who add nothing of significance to the debate. E.g., valster writes, “Christianity, although slightly more palitable [sic: that should be ‘palatable’] to western values,can not [sic: that should be both a space and ‘cannot’] and should [on valsters’s authority? What’s that?] not assume the moral high ground.”
Gag. If valster had any sense of propriety, he’d be ashamed to spout such nonsense. However, being a bona fide member of the “ME-ME” generation, this person doesn’t even know he’s a fool. (The PC dispensation adjures us to tell the emperor he’s beautifully and impeccably clothed. In his narrow-minded, delusional, parallel to real life universe, valster’s obviously a sucker for this ruse.)
valster, the very FOUNDATION of the West IS Judeo-Christianity: there is no West without these two religions and the moral dispensation of the Ten Commandments. Societies that have practised this code have thrived. (No wonder Muslim societies, which have neither the compunction nor desire to follow the Ten Commandments, are such dismal failures.)
Now, even the West is turning its back on the Judeo-Christian moral code and, having spent nearly all of the moral capital of our Judeo-Christian birthright, just look where that’s taking us. See Reginald Bibby’s new study, and ask any teacher, priest, or police officer. Better yet, bzloki and valster, why not have a good (moral: no cheating!) look at yourselves in the mirror? (Going a few moves ahead in my mind, I realize that this suggestion is bound to fail: one needs self-knowledge and humility in order to assess one’s shortcomings. From the postings of these two, I see no evidence of either trait. Too bad.)
So, here we go again.
“Andrew bluntly states that Ali is a bald feminist atheist who once planned to sneak into Canada with bogus papers to make a bogus refugee claim. Try again.”
Really? I say she’s an amazingly courageous apostate, who’s life is on the line for speaking the truth.
And your courageous deeds are?
————————-
Abrogation, from the Quran:
“Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers,” (6:34).
“The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?” (2:106).
—————
Or, how about Islam claiming to be the ‘original’ religion, starting with Adam and including all the Jewish prophets?
“And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam,” (39:12).
——————–
How about just plain stupidity. Not to mention confusion:
“Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood,” (96:2).
“We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
“The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was,” (3:59).
“But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?” (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
“He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
So, which is it? I guess all four.
———————-
Now that we’ve established abrogation, how about the famous, “There’s no compulsion in religion” crap:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things,” (2:256).
“And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith,” (9:3).
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful,” (9:5).
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued,” (9:29).
—————-
Oh, looky here. The Quran says the Bible is the truth and not corrupted:
“And dispute ye not with the People of the Book [Jews and Christians and the Bible], except in the best way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you,” (29:46)
——————–
The master of lies says lying is okey dokey. Oh, and pre-meditated murder too:
“Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf]?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). “The Prophet said, “You may say it,” (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).
———————-
As I and others have correctly pointed out before, Islam is based on foundational violence and all manor of deviance. It is commanded and rewarded by Allah in the Quran. It is commanded for Muslims to emulate Mo, the “Perfect Man.”
So, therefore, sure there can be nice Muslims who don’t follow the Quran and Mo’s life to a T. But the cult is chronic. The virus can skip a generation and show up in the pups.
—————-
bzloki,
Whoever you are, you should stick to the shallow end always found on leftard blogs. You don’t belong in grownup debates. Save yourself the embarrasment.
I’m no fan of religious nutters of any stripe but communism alone killed more than all religious persecution in the last 500 years if not in total.
Warwick, I think this is a case of friendly fire; I know I’ve been guilty of it. You’re both right, communism is the political ideology and the leaders of those regimes, in this case China, identified as atheists.
ET
You are using causality one way.
Atheists like Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot murdered many millions.
Stalin actually murdered more people the Hitler, with Pol Pot and Mao not far behind.
Most Muslim Christian wars had more to do with economics then religion. With the biggest wars between the Ottoman Turks and Christian Europe.
By the way the Byzantine Empire was very liberal in allowing Muslims to practice their faith. The Ottomans converted people by the sword.
Also Christian nations like France and England didn’t do mass conversions of their subjects in Persia or in Asia, but the Muslim nations sure did.
In the end Jews suffered the most per capita tby both religious and Atheist protagonists and continue to do so.
lookout…it is you who looks in the mirror and sees a neanderthal me-me sucker/follower. If you weren’t so belligerant people would pity your ignorance
Belisarius, another poster, some grey matter short of a brain, writes, “I don’t believe the letter from the Muslim scholars is as sinister as has been implied, nor can it be considered a threat. Rather, it is calling for reconciliation between the faiths.”
Just like the Wolf asking Little Red Riding Hood to meet him in the woods to “reconcile”.
Some people don’t have the eyes to see or the ears to hear. In this instance, these fifth columnist, useful idiots will be among the first ones to be steamrollered by “that nice group of Muslims who just wanted to be our friends”.
(Where have these “friends” been in the last six years?)
valster – Bush isn’t against stem cell research; he has funded it with millions; he’s against aborting fetuses to use for stem cell research. A lot of stem cell research is being done using without destruction of an embryo.
Apollyon – I think the swaying of Jews when praying (and of other religions) as a continual act of mocking the Muslims is what is called an ‘urban myth’, ie, it’s simply false. Jews were also forbidden to ride on horses, and you don’t sway on a horse.
irwin daisy- I’ve disagreed with you before and will continue to do so; your quite violent hatred of anything Islamic has moved you out of any reasoned debate and discussion. I maintain that as a creation of man, it and any religion, can be reformed.
One group of Muslisms says one thing. A different group of (presumed) Muslims does something else.
Golly. In related news, some Christians exhort others to love their neighbours, while other Christians murder their neighbours.
“You can’t accuse them of inconsistency.” That’s right. You can’t. Not without committing an absurd fallacy.
irwin:
You can be all self-rightous… Go ahead, I won’t lose sleep over it.
I don’t pretend to be the smartest guy. I also don’t feel any embarrasment about reading what people have to say; and commenting on it.
So what? I am young, and am more willing to learn than YOU.
I can tell right now, that my morals are better than yours, but thats my opinion.
I don’t need a book to tell me how to live, if you do.. that’s fine. If you want to fight over whose book is better, thats fine with me too.
lookout:
I never stopped before I hit the NT. There is a lot of garbage in there too, but I don’t have 3 days to discuss these FOOLISH books.
I’m glad you are aware that the New Testament is a bit more humane, but again.. cherry pickin!
I merely wanted to point out how dam hypocritical it was to slander the Karan, yet follow the bible. Thank you for helping!!
ET…. I think you’re wrong about the stem cell thing…from what I’ve read anyway. But prove me wrong. Stem cell research can be the breakthrough in saving millions of lives.
lookout – Where have these “friends” been in the last six years?
Are you aware that most of the soldiers and police doing the fighting and dying in the Afghan National Army/Police are Muslims? Or that the bulk of the casualties sustained in the war against al-Qaeda in Iraq have been sustained by Shiite and Sunni Muslims fighting for their new government?
In Pakistan, more than 4000 Muslim soldiers have now been killed fighting the Taliban/al-Qaeda. And lets not forget the casualties sustained by Muslim soldiers in Algeria fighting the Islamic insurgency there.