It’s nice to see a Quebec businessman take out a full page ad in the local paper supporting our troops and their mission in Afghanistan.
“Be proud of our Canadian Military” – indeed we are.
It’s nice to see a Quebec businessman take out a full page ad in the local paper supporting our troops and their mission in Afghanistan.
“Be proud of our Canadian Military” – indeed we are.
Quebec is no different than the rest of Canada. Once you factor out the urbane latte sipping idiots, the majority of them are conservative, down to earth people who will listen to a reasonable argument. Sadly, it is only the pot banging, whistle blowing morons who get the attention. I met many patriotic francophones while serving this great country, and the Van Doos are making me just as proud as the anglo regiments. GO ARMY!
Bravo! I agree, wonder outside of Montreal, and you get conservative, family minded people, you know…the backbone of Canada, the people who keep us strong.
“English translation
No one is in favour of war for the sake of war.”
Unless of course you sell bullets for a living
Damn alby. Must you inject your idiocy on every post. Let us patriots have our moment of solidarity with our french brothers. You go have a moment of solidarity with some bone smoking, latte sipping, che guevera adoring leftard. GO ARMY!
Sorry, forgot tree hugging, birkenstock sandal wearing dykes.
I think Kingstonlad will agree with me that when we were in , some of the nastiest, toughest, most capable soldiers were from the Vandoos…
I dare anyone to tell them they are not!…
Oh ya. Broken nose # 2 was picked up at the mess in Valcartier. But we had some beers afterward, and it was all good. They are excellent soldiers, in spite of what some people say.
“Let us patriots have our moment of solidarity with our french brothers.”
French brothers? Is that what you call them when one agrees with you, brothers? Funny how the right-wing tune changes when they aren’t talking about Quebec as a nation. What a pile of hypocrisy.
Alby..the conservatives talk about the Quebecois as a nation..you know, the people?
I am sure that little fact escaped you..
..and fellow soldiers are our brothers, past present or future..that’s just the way it is..i doubt you would understand that..
Buddy, you are one f@#$ed up moonbat. It does not matter to a soldier what your race, creed, religion or language is. When you share a trench with another man, it creates a bond that no agenda driven leftard could ever understand. Go f#$% yourself idiot!
So tell us kingstonlad with all of your 10 years as a part timer spouting of all of this army bravado, what shrapnel do you have dangling from a ribbon on your chest? Tell us the areas of conflict you set foot in or how you put your life on the line for another human being. Fill us in on the hardships of the typical reserve had to put up with. Hardships like uprooting your family every four or five years to move to a place that you didn’t have a say in. Tell us how you were yanked away from your wife and kids at the whim of the government to send you some place for no other reason than somebody in Ottawa wanted to play some political game. Tell us about being injected with anthrax vaccine against your better judgement and no say in the matter.
You can obviously tell us about “Broken nose # 2” at the mess in ValcartierCan, but can you tell us about any of the other things mentioned above?
alby,
You are quite the simple minded thing, aren’t you?
I don’t think it’s necessary to respond any further to alby’s last post, everyone can judge this at face value on where he stands.
“I don’t think it’s necessary to respond any further to alby’s last post”
Oh now I’m just asking for him to tell us what hardships that he faced. I know what he can and can’t answer, but I’m sure he would like to tell the rest what his experiences have been. He’s the one that’s willing to risk the lives of Canadian troops in Afghanistan, so it would be nice to hear some of his experiences in uniform.
Before this thread gets dragged, kicking and screaming, too far from its original intent…
Ottawa-area readers, take note: the man sells cars in your market. So, if you happen to be car shopping any time soon…there’s a concrete way to express your appreciation and support for a businessman who has taken the high road rather than the easy one, risking the patronage of quite a few customers along the way.
Tell us how you were yanked away from your wife and kids at the whim of the government….
People join the military, there isn’t any forced conscription. You don’t get yanked, you get assigned duty. Do you think anyone joining has the job description of the military confused with that of a hairdresser or school bus driver? They are too stupid and therefore duped into not understanding the risks in the fine print? Get real.
Your naivety and confrontational hyperbole are wearing thin.
alby my little brother recently retired from the Army, lots of experience in uniform. He’s ok, you should seek help
Penny, Kelly, I’m not asking about your little brother or what people think when they join the military. I’m asking kingstonlad to fill us in on his experiences.
Kingstonlad can’t respond right now…he’s nursing a bum knee, one that’s keeping him from going over there and killing the evildoers.
alby and liebeal id rather get shot in the ass than listen to u so shove off
They won’t get it until they have to defend their little posts …under the bridge.
They must feel so safe in there…under the bridge.
come to think of it…they won’t ever have to defend themselves …unless another troll terrorizes them and wants what they have …under the bridge.
In the mean time life is good from their point of view…
Altogether now
UNDER THE BRIDGE
(Sorry Kate)
Are you sure the vandoos still in Afghan,?
This thread is about a Quebecker’s support for the Vandoos and Afghan war. Unfortunately, morons like alby must inject their ignorance and bigotry into the matter. In alby’s world, conservatives hate Quebec. The tone of his posts make that fairly obvious. The reality is alby hates conservatives; he is a bigot. He doesn’t even know if poster are conservatives, he prejudges that to be the case. He certainly has no idea what a conservative is. He substitutes bigotry for his ignorance. Then he appoints himself winner of the argument. Quite pathetic really.
Why do these leftard idiots come here anyway?I remember one saying it was because he’s a debate junkie,too stupid to realize that he’s being ridiculed,not debated.Maybe they go and tell their lefty friends how they told off some right wing cons so as they can feel important,who knows or cares for that matter.We know their handles,iberia,albatros,jeffie.I say just skip over their comments.They have nothing to add,they just bait until someone bites.If we ignore them it will be like the sound of one hand clapping.Now I’m going to go to a lefty site and give my right wing opinion until someone responds,or maybe I’ll just get a life.
I see people are getting quite defensive over my questions. There’s nothing to be defensive about, I’m just trying to demonstrate a point. The funny thing is as my question goes unanswered the point is demonstrated for me.
I’ll ask one more question to kingstonlad and those who think military life is field-stripping rifles, buddies in foxholes and beer at the mess. Have you ever watched the life of a child ebb away in front of your face, and be powerless to help her because the political situation in the country you were in at the time put the value of their borders ahead of a child’s life and her access to a hospital?
Alby always swings between boring and downright silly comments. I don’t recall Kingstonlad, or anyone else say “military life is field-stripping rifles, buddies in foxholes and beer at the mess.”
He says his questions unanswered demonstrates a point to him. There is another possibility, nobody wants to bother getting into a rhetorical duel with an unarmed opponent. IOW, he is inconsequential, as are his views.
If the point you’re trying to illustrate is that you’re a freakin’ idiot, you’ve done an excellent job.
I don’t know “Kingstonlad”, nor do I know of his experiences. What I do know is that someone like you would not have the vaguest notion of the difficulties faced by someone like him in Basic Training alone – let alone in whatever other hardships he may have faced during his career.
You have no idea what words like “honour” and “discipline” mean. You do not understand what it means to be broken to the point where “self” has no meaning, and only the unit matters. You attempt to insult and ridicule that which you do not understand, and believe yourself to be superior to him in doing so. You are, in short, a buffon, full of self-importance, and very little else.
In return, I invite you to expound on the excess hardships that YOU may have faced. It must be a nightmare, living in your mother’s basement! Tell us of the difficulty of obtaining “munchies” at 4 am. Explain to us how your fascist parents continue to insist that you “get a job”. I promise, we’ll listen. And we’ll try not to mock you. Not TOO much.
Alex. Maybe you’re new or you just don’t believe alby, but he claims to have a CD. If he is being honest then he joined about the same time as me. I don’t know what part of the military he was in, it’s alien to my experience and I think the other miltypes would agree.
So he has no excuse for not being honourable or loyal to the organization for which he gladly drew pay, in spite of being harassed by ring knockers and early postings, and I’m sure a pension now.
For you non military types just delete:
field-stripping rifles, buddies in foxholes and beer at the mess.
and replace with:
In Afghanistan, near a minefield, dreaming of having a Timmie sometime this month.
Maybe he is a teenager in his parents’ basement; some here think so. I actually believe him but do wonder myself sometimes.
CD? No CD1.
Shamrock, have you ever been in/seen a minefield or how about burned your eyebrows with an immersion heater? I thought you were navy.
You really don’t get it do you?
Alby I get it, you’re a disloyal whiner. Maybe you had some personal troubles when you were in the airforce, who knows. Do you think you were the only one. I watched people lose children and comrades, for God’s sake, but unlike you they still had respect for the Forces. I personally have lost two good friends on operations. OK, now do you get it? When you are in the military, you have to realize it is bigger than you, it demands hyperloyalty and dedication of the highest standards. Maybe you didn’t measure up, who knows.
BTW I was smart enough to step back when I lit an immersion heater. No I wasn’t navy. As usual, you’re wrong. You really don’t get it do you?
Shamrock:
The only thing to really get around here is that kingstonlad is an idiot. Being loyal to the military does not mean you run around yelling “KILL, KILL, KILL!!!” every opportunity you get. He makes a big deal of his military service (unlike virtually everyone else who actually has served and who posts here) and is a caricature of how many civilians see military and ex-military members.
Re.Shamrock at September 15, 2007 1:40 AM
No, you apparently don’t get it at all. The point isn’t about you or me. The point is people who are armchair warriors who think that all there is to supporting the troops is putting a magnet on the back of their cars, yet wouldn’t dream of supporting the cause by actually putting their own or their loved ones lives on the line. It’s people like kingstonlad who piss me of repeating these army aphorisms after he picked them up from “broken nose #2” trying to sound like the old seasoned vet, yet has no clue as to what is faced by our people in conflict areas. It’s far too easy to support a war when you don’t have a stake in game.
Don’t sit there thinking I didn’t measure up either, I did my twenty five years and retired honourably. That kid mentioned above was in my helicopter who I watched die in front of my face because the Israeli government wouldn’t let us cross the border with an Egyptian national (an 8 year old Bedouin child, a real danger there eh) to get medical attention. I was also one of unlucky ones who took the anthrax shots after a good friend of mine, Sgt Mike Kipling refused to take them. Thank you Preston Manning for that one. Kipling didn’t refuse to stay in theatre, he just refused the shots. The military, after a lengthy trial ended up dropping all charges, but not after Kipling had been financially destroyed. Yes the military was really looking out for him. Twenty-six faithful years and they couldn’t just let him retire quietly, they had to destroy him. Though the military court said he was entitled to refuse the vaccine, he is still ended up heavily in debt defending himself and will likely never see his pension because he will be paying for his defence for the rest of is life http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2000/05/05/anthrax_000505.html
I thought you were navy, it must have been someone else I was thinking of. So what did/do you do in the military. Did you face any minefields or go out on any hazardous missions? Do you speaking from experience when you support the troops or the mission?
If you managed to end your military career without seeing some of the horrors that some of the guys saw in the Balkans, then good for you. Last year at one of the Remembrance Day ceremonies in Winnipeg, there was this guy there about 35 years old. He looked emaciated, his hair down to his waste, a cigarette hanging out of his lips and generally looked like a complete crack head. You’d have thought this guy was just another bum off of the street, but he was wearing a combat shirt, his medals, and a barrette with a PPCLI cap badge. He had the usual Cyprus and Golan medals, but also had the UNPROFOR medal, meaning he was in the Balkans or what was left of him was in the Balkans. One can only imagine his trail that brought him to where he is today. I’ve talked to some of the guys who were there doing the patrols there and they told me some of the things they witnessed. These guys have some pretty serious ghosts in their heads and will never be the same again. My own brother wasn’t the same when he came back from Sarajevo either. You always hear about the guys who are killed and few of the guys who are wounded, but you never hear about the guys who come back and will never be the same person who got on the plane to go over there. Many find their lives irreparably destroyed but never took a bullet or shrapnel.
So don’t think I don’t support the troops, I don’t support the blank cheque that Harper if holding out to the US written in their blood. I also don’t like colonels, generals and bureaucrats telling our troops to hand over detainees to people who could torture those detainees. It’s not the generals who would go on trial for committing war crimes, it would be the sergeants or corporals who did the actual handover without knowing what those detainees were in for. All the soldier would know is what the senior staff told them about being on the up and up with the Afghanis. Don’t you believe me that the lower ranks would take the fall? Just remember what happened to Private Kyle Brown.
I don’t take the proposition of them being there lightly and I’ve certainly learned to never trust the leadership of the military.
So when somebody calls me a “f@#$ed up moonbat” for posting something showing disapproval of the war, then they’d better have put their money where their mouth is and not just a part time military hobbyist spouting off as if he was Sergeant York.
You see, when I wrote- “No one is in favour of war for the sake of war.” Unless of course you sell bullets for a living”
I had noticed that the full page ad above put out by Andre Dupont, is not just an ad showing his support for the war, it’s a advertisement for Duportage Ford and Cite Chrysler owned by Dupont and Dupont. Why did he feel that if he was putting up an ad to support the troops he had a need to put his company logos on that ad. I don’t believe his intentions were completely altruistic. I think he just wants to sell cars.
BTW. if you’ve never been tempted to look inside an immersion heater then good for you. However under the right conditions it can be quite entertaining for the observer.
You had me interested Alby,until your Bush statement.Now I’m more inclined to believe you really do live in your mother’s basement.What exactly did you do in the military?My helicopter?Since when did military trials include civilian defence?
lberia, alby. I don’t agree with either of you. So armchair warriors piss you off? Have either of you been to Afghanistan? If you haven’t, then you aren’t maintaining a standard of debate you expect from others. lberia, you are the one who has created the caricature in your own mind. Kingstonlad is proud of our troops, as am I, and it frankly pisses him off when, based on specious or non-existent evidence, both of you diss the military. We are loyal to them, you are not; enough said on that.
Maybe if you took more considered positions, you wouldn’t get called moonbats. Anyway, if you can’t stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen (Truman was a Democrat too).
h.ryan. at September 15, 2007 12:30 PM
“Since when did military trials include civilian defence?”
The helicopter I refer to, I was charged with the care of at the moment. While my signature was on the paperwork I was responsible for it, the thing was mine until I’d finished with it and gave it back. Did I say anything about Bush?
Shamrock at September 15, 2007 12:32 PM
“Have either of you been to Afghanistan?”
As a matter of fact, yes I was. It was one of the last long distance missions I did. Thankfully it was only for an hour while we unloaded our cargo and left. Though the visit to Afghanistan was brief I’ve also been to Kuwait, Sarajevo, Uganda, Nicaragua, Honduras, Croatia, Serbia, Cyprus and some forty odd other countries at varying levels of peace, conflict and natural disaster.
Perhaps if you read a little closer you would find out nobody is “dissing” the military. I and I’m assuming Iberia come here to “diss” those who spew their hypocritical displays of emotions, but have no clues to the reality of what is really happening. Sometimes people like kingstonlad are the worst at this as they come here telling all how they wore a uniform, but in reality are no more clued into the reality as any civilian because they have never left the comfort of their office, warehouse or the mess at their home base in Canada. The infantry likes to call these people “remfs”, I’m sure you’ve heard the term before. Perhaps it may not have occurred to you, but Iberia and myself are part of the few who really do support our troops as human beings. There’s a distinct difference between supporting a uniform and supporting the meat inside that uniform.
Enough about me Shamrock, what did/do you do?
Perhaps it may not have occurred to you, but Iberia and myself are part of the few who really do support our troops as human beings.
That’s a laugh. You’ve either never spoken to any soldiers, or you only allowed yourself to hear what you wanted to hear.
So you’re 46, living in Manitoba, and a university student? Ok, I’ll grant that you’re old enough to have served 25 years. On the other hand, anyone who goes through 25 years in uniform isn’t likely to be a member of Amnesty International, nor be a “dedicated socialist”. It’s possibly, but you’d certainly be amongst a very small minority. As such, your opinion is pretty much worthless. You can’t claim to speak for the troops when you represent things which most of us despise.
Alby,my mistake,you didn’t mention Bush this time.But you did not answer my question,since when do civilians act as defence in a military trial?As well,you asked if I or shamrock have ever been to Afghanistan.No I have not.But I did spend ten years as an Airborn soldier,you know,the historied regiment that Cretin painted with the same brush and then disbanded. I have kept in touch with some of my trooper friends who did spend time in Afghanistan so I do feel somewhat qualified to discuss this topic.Care to talk with someone who has their finger on the pulse of the infantry,not someone who’s pretending.Btw,they love what they,re doing there,finally get a chance to test out all that training,what they dislike is the media,especially the embedded ones,more work having to protect their sorry asses.
Ref – civilian defence at as military trial.
I’m not a big fan of albatros but he is correct on that point. An accused is entitled to a lawyer and a summary trial that is open to the public. It probably doesn’t happen very often at the summary trial level because the stakes aren’t that high, but at courts marshal it probably does.
I was a captain, so I have dealt with a few summary trials, as both the person laying the charge and as assisting officer.
I think the public access and right to retain council probably came out of the charter of rights and freedoms.
Minuteman, not really relevant to topic, but to best of my knowledge accused at summary trial not entitled to civilian lawyer; have to elect court martial – unless things have changed since I got out. Same goes for public trial – court martial only. Mil legal types can correct me on this if I have mispoken.
The government is responsible for military policy. Military personnel go where they are told to and do what they are told to. Not supporting government policy is different than not supporting the military. Unfortunately, right wingers in Canada, who have taken their cue from right wingers in the US, keep trying to twist things around (“If you don’t support the war, you don’t support our troops, you don’t support FREEDOM and you support terrorism.”) in order to stiffle debate. This is bullshit!!
Only the truly deluded would claim that things in Afghanistan and Iraq are going well. If the governments involved can’t figure out how to make things go well, they deserve to be criticised. They are responsible for the welfare of our troops. Why should our troops sacrifice themselves needlessly just because politicians are too proud or too stupid to manage this conflict properly? Blind, unquestioning support of government policies led to the horrific casualties of WW1. Our troops deserve better, or we haven’t learned anything from history.
h.ryan. at September 15, 2007 4:52 PM
Sorry for the confusion, that was a cut and paste failure. Before it happened I too was under the impression that it was to be a military lawyer for courts marshal, but Para 10b of the charter apparently translates into, he can have civilian lawyer if he is willing to pay for him otherwise he gets what we give him. Buy this point Kipling wasn’t about to trust anyone in an officer’s uniform to protect him. Pober liking the case did it at a reduced rate, but it still broke Kipling.
Now regarding Somalia. Quite simply disbandment may have been overkill, but before Airborne’s Somalia deployment, the CAF leadership was warned not to send them http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0011348 and that they weren’t ready. As I’ve said before here, it’s the upper level leadership that is the problem and many can’t be trusted with the well being of our troops.
Re. Alex at September 15, 2007 2:44 PM
No Alex, I’m 47 now
”On the other hand, anyone who goes through 25 years in uniform isn’t likely to be a member of Amnesty International, nor be a “dedicated socialist”
And why in your opinion do you think that? Is this just another case of looking at a uniform and failing to noticing the meat inside? That is typical right-wing thinking that one must conform isn’t it? Did it ever occur to you that it’s experiences that drive a person to hold the views they do?
E-mail Romeo Dallaire contact@romeodallaire.com and ask him about his views, or are his opinions pretty much worthless too? Let’s face it, stereotypical generals aren’t supposed to speak out against their bosses either, are they.
Is this just another case of looking at a uniform and failing to noticing the meat inside?
What?
Listen, I know a lot of guys like to start with the after they get out, so I’m not going to criticize you excessively. All I ask is that you refrain from that stuff before speaking to me, ok?
E-mail Romeo Dallaire contact@romeodallaire.com and ask him about his views, or are his opinions pretty much worthless too?
You mean the guy who stood by while soldiers were massacred, and then whined about it afterwards and made a off a book?
I don’t much care what he has to say, no. I’d gladly trade his life for just one of those paratroopers.
On the bright side, I’m sure he got a GREAT glimpse of “the meat inside the uniform” when he saw what was left of their bodies.
“Listen, I know a lot of guys like to start with the after they get out, so I’m not going to criticize you excessively. All I ask is that you refrain from that stuff before speaking to me, ok?”
Want to try that one again?
I’m sure you can figure it out. Unfortunately, the computer I was using has that dumb-ass cybersitter program installed, which likes to block words that some idiot somewhere deemed “bad”.
I’ll give you a hint – it was an allusion to drug use.
I’m sure you can figure it out. Unfortunately, the computer I was using has that dumb-ass cybersitter program installed, which likes to block words that some idiot somewhere deemed “bad”.
I’ll give you a hint – it was an allusion to use.
Ah, it was a slur, an incoherent slur, but a slur none the less.
Why do you need a net nanny anyway? Oh never mind.
Alby,can’t argue with you on that one,no leadership was their downfall.However it should have been the liberal’s defence minister’s head that should have rolled,not the entire regiment cause of a few bad apples.
Bring the troops home. We don’t need anymore dead heroes.