Yesterday I received an email that I’ve received permission to share. I’ve edited the identifying details, as the writer would like to preserve her privacy;
Hi Kate,
I have enjoyed your blog since discovered it during the election.
I trust if you share any of my email that you would keep me anonymous please. I am still having *issues* to say the least with regards to my husbands death.
[The investigation into the circumstances of his death during a training exercise] is still ongoing, at least I think it is. I have never EVER been officially updated on it. That said, the only thing that has been confirmed is there was no pilot error (important for me and my husbands memory to bring that up).
The reason I am emailing you is the issue of banning the media from the base when the soldiers’ remains are returned to their families. While my husband was not overseas, I will share with you my personal experience with the media and a very public death.
Thankfully the media had yet to discover my house when I had to go see my husband for the first time. They found me by 6 AM the following morning. My parents had driven up immediately after my frantic phone call. My father stepped outside to get the papers and he was besieged (to say it lightly) with media camped out in my driveway! They were knocking at my door, putting the cameras on us as we opened it. There was always their cars there, with them sitting in them, waiting for someone to come or go. Phone call after phone call to the house when the lines were needed for more important issues. Our grief was made very public. I was asked if I wanted media at the funeral and I agreed to have them there. I wanted the people of Canada to know that even when Canada’s sons and daughters do not go overseas, lives are put on the lone on a daily basis for the safety and security of every Canadian. To show them how the phrase “military cut backs’ translates into real life in the forces. I had insisted that there not be a close up on any family member. I was sure Joe Blow watching the news did not need to see my tears, or those of my children to know we were distraught. Yet this rule was broken.
The media also pushed for the release of the names of those killed ASAP. Why?? Does it matter to Joe Blow? Shouldn’t it matter more that ALL family (not just immediate) and close friends are informed personally even by phone than to hear it on the news? Families of victims killed in auto accidents can request that the names not be released and Joe Blow doesn’t complain.
About the Peace tower and the flag flap, if anyone understand tradition it is a military member and his family. Did I expect the flag at the Peace tower to be flown at 1/2 mast for my husband?? oh hell no! But I did expect a phone call or something from our Prime Minister? Just the letter with his stamped signature would have to be good enough. He was in Europe and there is no way that letter was written there and sent to me to receive so quickly. It is also noticeable the signature is from a stamp and not hand signed. I did get a touching phone call and a lovely letter from the Governor General, HE Clarkson.
I will end this letter now. I could go on but I am sure you don’t want to hear all the sordid details of how a military widow is really treated.
Except to add, that if I were to walk into funerals of people I didn’t know stating it is my right to know who they are etc I’d be frowned on or even thrown out.
Think of this email when you see the tape replays shot by CTV news yesterday from over the fence at CFB Trenton.
If you’ve never forwarded a post from SDA to family and friends before – consider doing it with this one. The media has been screaming for tranparency. Well, let’s give it to them. Turn the “camera” back on the microphone holders for a change, and let ordinary Canadians see the mob for the self-absorbed ratings vultures that they are.
I’m with ..Fred and Lakota..
It’s time to go after the advertisers.!
I think each family should be assumed to want privacy at this time. The military should protect the family as much as possible. Perhaps their names should not be released until after the burial.
I do think the public should know about everyone who dies for their country. It is our duty at least to know these people and how they served. This information and media of the soldier’s coffin should be made public, with permission of the family, after the burial. It is not essential we be made aware of who these people are immediately, but perhaps two weeks later.
The other thing the letter alludes to is that the military doesn’t follow up with the family afterward. Any and all questions the family has regarding the circumstances surrounding a military death should be answered.
I love the fact that she got a letter and phone call from the Governor General, I hope that is standard proceedure for all GG’s. A letter and phone call from the Minister of Defense should also be standard practice.
I hope that all those injured in the line of duty serving their country are also WELL taken care of until they are able to take care of themselves, however long that takes.
The homeless, volunteer, denizens of the Presstitutes Club of Parliament Hill:
CANADIAN PARLIAMENTARY PRESS GALLERY
ROOM 607, 150 WELLINGTON ST.
PI�CE 607, 150, RUE WELLINGTON
TELEPHONE (613) 992-6517
FAX (613) 996-2076
KIP 5A4
APRIL – 2006 – AVRIL
EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE – COMIT� EX�CUTIF
tr VALIGN=TOP>
PRESIDENT -PR�SIDENT
Stephanie Rubec
232-6078
Sun Media, 705-150 Wellington
VICE-PRESIDENT – VICE-PR�SIDENTE
Yves Malo
234-3357
TVA, 507-165 Sparks
TREASURER-TR�SORIER
Isabelle Rodrigue
231-8641
La Presse Canadienne, pi�ce 350-N, �difice du Centre
SECRETARY – SECR�TAIRE
Elizabeth, Thompson
751-3322
Montreal Gazette, 500-150 Wellington
DIRECTORS – DIRECTEURS
Jim Bronskill
236-4122
Canadian Press, 165 Sparks, 8th Floor
H�l�ne Buzzetti
232-1138
Le Devoir, 301-150 Wellington
Luigi Della Penta
751-3365
Global TV, 501-150 Wellington
Emmanuelle Latraverse
288-6813
Radio-Canada TV, 181 Queen
David Ljunggren
235-6745
Reuters, 400-165 Sparks
George Papadionysiou
236-7343
CTV, 1400-100 Queen
List: Includes:
Oliver, Craig
236-7343
CTV, 1400-100 Queen St
Van Dusen, Julie
288-6926
CBC TV, 181 Queen
Duffy, Mike
224-1313
Sunday Edition, 1500 Merivale Rd
Delacourt, Susan
237-1773
Toronto Star, 400-150 Wellington
more: http://www.gallery-tribune.ca/members.html
The below is a e-mail I have sent to CTV and CBC (with some changes)outlining my thoughts on this issue;
Your entire tone, not to mention your message about the “right” to cover the grief of the families when our fallen heroes return is repugnant. To whine about being shut out is at best an outright LIE. You have every opportunity to cover the ongoing mission (which you won’t, and I wonder why?), the Ramp ceremonies, and if the families choose, the funerals.
Consider this, the Legion, the military brass, and the soldiers all support the Government’s position on this. So does a large proportion of the Canadian people.
Personally, I will not watch your newsnet, or any other CTV channel as long as you continue to treat our Military and thier families so shabbily.
I, for one, am not a paranoid conspiracy theorist, so why do I need to see the flag-drapped coffin on Canadian soil to know that someone has died in defense of our freedoms and who that someone was. The names and faces of the dead soldiers have been splashed across the media, so unless I think there is a conspiracy, why do I need to see the coffin on Canadian soil?
There is no overarching “media ban”…they just want the media ghouls to give the mourning families a bit of privacy when they greet their dearly departed back home…at least until they’re off the tarmac.
As for the flag lowering, what happens if there is someone killed every day? Do we keep the flag lowered to half-mast every day? If the flag is at half-mast and another is killed, do we lower it to quarter-mast? And then eight-mast? And then sixteenth mast…ad nauseum?
I suspect that this is reason for the policy in the first place. Practicality has to eventually take precedence over the honours due each dead patriot. The criticisms are nothing but empty political posturing.
When I think of the MSM, I remember that, during the recent election, a distinguished reporter asked Stephen Fletcher (MP for Charleswood, Winnipeg, who is in a wheelchair) whether he was offended, hurt, insulted etc that the motto for his Conservatives was “Stand up for Canada”. Now there’s an intelligent question wouldn’t you say??? I would call it disgraceful!!! So much for press sensitivity.
I’m a politics junky and usually I love the rough and tumble of political exchange. But this whole saga leaves me with a very sad feeling. The media has leapt on a non story to create a political football, the Dippers and Liberals dutifully kick it into play, and all of this while our latest casualties from Afghanistan are not even buried. The government has shown great restraint in not rising to the bait, but the Tory bloggers need to be careful not to feed the trolls. Don’t play this game. It’s not politics as usual. Politics govern the nature of our mission in Afghanistan. Politics should have nothing to do with how our nation honours the fallen.
“So what’s the point here? Because this anon woman didn’t like the media coverage of a a private funeral in which she was involved, we are supposed to conclude that the government is right to ban the media from a public ceremony?
Posted by Jason Cherniak at April 26, 2006 10:41 AM ”
If you don’t get the point, Jason, then your head is as thick as the block on the collective media they are using for a head.
They are , as a whole, a repugnant force whose tactics as outlined in the e-mail from the military widow as most unseemly, distasteful, disrespectful and unwarranted. IF children behaved in such a manner they would be discplined severely.
This is what is going to happen to the media collectively if they keep this up.
People in droves are cancellng their subscriptions, refusing to watch revolting behaviour by the media on television and are finally catching on to the ‘propaganda’ tactics they use regularly : ( Calling chain link “barbed wire” )
Pay attention, there, Jason. And put yourself in the shoes of every widow of a fallen soldier, or the grieving families of victims anywhere. The media are all the same: poking microphones in the faces of obviously distraught people.
It is cold, cruel, inhumane and disgusting.
THAT’s what’s wrong with it and why it should not be tolerated.
There’s another point. Jason Cherniak, as apologist for the Liberal Party, wrote that the writer of the letter was ‘anonymous’. Who ever indicated that? The individual wrote to Kate and asked that her identity be removed for privacy. She didn’t write Kate anonymously.
Again, the MSM is an appendage of the Liberal Party. It moved into that role over the past generation, for all its members have been brainwashed within the Trudeau utopian isolationism and emotionalism. And, the Liberal Party has deliberately linked itself to the MSM, using it as its major propaganda apparatus. (Rather than having a Ministry of Propaganda, the Liberals used the flattered MSM). Now, the CPC and Harper don’t want propaganda; they want to directly and factually, speak with the electorate. The MSM have lost their propaganda role – and are extremely angry – as it privileged them (rather than the electorate)..who were reduced to being meek Listeners of the MSM.
Harper has, sometimes, daily press interviews; his ministers are often on the MSM. There is MORE information coming out of our gov’t than ever, ever, before. And it’s facts, not fiction.
But – the MSM aren’t its purveyors and authors. They don’t like that.
I have sent my displeasure to news@ctv.ca most likley will not hear back & i have also sent to my local MP showing support for the government decision.
Just another point of interest go back & read yesterday’s on the flag issue…very end..
way to go kate good on you….seeya bcl..
IMHO there is precisely zero redeeming value in showing grief stricken widows, emotionally shattered, as their lives are now forever changed, on TV for the nation to see, as they FIRST encounter their spouses returning in a box.
It is so called journalism at its lowest; in the tradition of the “National Enquirer”. This is the video version of “drive by shooting”. Most likely the fallen soldier will have funeral which the media can and does monitor all they want, replete with widows tears if they absolutely have to show this to the nation.
Anyone who has ever buried a relative, knows the pangs of personal devastation, things left regrettably unsaid, hopes dashed, replaced by a disquieting emptiness.
I suspect the MSM are simply looking for a ‘wedge issue’ to corner some distraught spouse into saying they don’t support this or that mission in a moment of weakness a la Cindy Sheehan. What great copy would that make? Welcome to the viper’s club and the ice in their veins crowd. The MSM would be acting just like their “American” counterparts.
This is simple politicization of death, or as someone mentioned above “Necro-politik”. If the MSM want to “support the soldiers” their best bet would be in the budgetary cycle so their deaths aren’t numbered under the column “UNNECESSARY” due to outdated equipment.
Much as the MSM would like to “titillate” us with Janet Jackson’s “wardrobe malfunction”; they have spent little time perusing bugetary malfunction. But why do boring stuff when you can show a little T & A?
Regrettably, I would venture to say that more than a few deaths over the years may have been due to equipment or lack thereof. How else to explain 40 year old equipment still in the field? The chief nasty in the woodpile would be the funding levels being left, as Gen. Hillier noted some units are on the “skeletal” level. (No pun intended) The reason some investigations take so long? Try liability concerns, cover your ass, lawsuits, etc.
I suppose the watershed for many in the military is that “twisting in the wind” moment, when you know its all going for shit and there is little one can do about it.
As Ed the Hun noted over at Stephen Taylor there is lasting bitterness over episodes like Rwanda and Gen. Romeo Dallaire who despite personal best efforts was left to “twist in the wind” witnessing what has to have been among the worst horror shows since the end of WWII.
If this is the treatment of a General in the field, God help the rank and file. Why did this appalling disgrace to humanity happen. The short answer: A crisis of leadership at the political level of the UN.
What pray tell is the wisdom in sending people to do their sworn duty with inadequate resources?
Or is it that as Gen Dallaire noted, the job of bureaucrats to report “that there are only people and too many of them.”?
Maybe it is time for the MSM to scutinize their behaviour or lack of thereof and take a wider picture of budget cycle, equipment cycles, political landscape and the like. Maybe then the soldiers, that so many ostensibly support, will have fewer flaps over such issues as flags flying at half mast.
The problem with the MSM is they haven’t done their real job by half. Pseudo advocacy just doesn’t cut it. It is an insult to anyone who has ever donned a uniform.
It is lack of vision and lack of focus on the real issues that leave many tuning out the MSM because they are perceived as being part of the problem!! But hey why be self aware when one’s vision spans no longer than the next news cycle?
Imagine a public hearing. A witness makes a brief statement; the steno who is there to record the proceedings types for a few seconds, then waits for the next words. The judge utters a few words, and the steno types them out, then waits.
A witness who the steno dislikes is called up. He utters five words; the steno types for a minute. The commission chair asks a question, but the steno doesn’t type; when the witness responds with a single word, the steno starts typing, and continues typing for half an hour, rocking slightly and with furrowed brow,pausing only to scratch her chin.
The hearing adjourns for a lunch break. The steno continues typing furiously, as other stenos enter the room. They put papers on her desk and whisper into her ear as she types more furiously than ever. Finally, with a flourish, she grabs all her assembled minutes and hands them over to her publisher.
Canadian MSM journalism in a nutshell.
I will say it again. The MSM has lost ALL credability. They are lower than slime. Now is the time to tell the advertisers drop them or we will buy from others.
What really eggs me is that the media continue to egg on two points which are completely false.
1) They say the American policy is a result of George W. Bush. This is false. The policy went into place in 1991 and was restated by Bill Clinton in 2000. So, the American policy has been in effect for 15 years.
2) They say that Harper’s policy mirrors the American policy. This is also untrue.
The US does not allow pictures of the caskets in the warzone.
Canada does allow pictures of the caskets in the warzone.
The US does not allow pictures of the caskets being loaded into the planes.
Canada does allow pictures of the caskets being loaded into the plane.
The US does not allow pictures of the caskets in the planes.
Canada does allow pictures of caskets in the planes.
The only similarity is that upon the plane carrying the caskets landing on home soil, the media is barred from any interaction and photographing of the caskets and the family members.
Talk about a tempest in a tea cup. The media doesn’t have full access for photographing anything they want. Have we seen inside pictures of the fire damage in the HMCS Chicoutimi? No. And I agree that we shouldn’t since it is national security. Do we need to have the media in the faces of grieving family members? No, because that simply a question of common decency.
Anybody who doesn’t get that is missing a few screws.
The real problem is the insatiable thirst for what’s going on, usually somebodies pain and suffering.
If you don’t like the way that the MSM conducts itself my suggestion is to turn it off and stop talking about it. Stop slowing down when there’s an accident and finally, stop being interested by pain and suffering. The best way you can help is to get joy into your life.
My only source of news is blogs, by the people for the people. That’s it.
Let’s take the money we shovel at the CBC and give it to the Military, along with a few billion more. We will have less casualties and will be gratified to know that our troops have decent armour with with to defend their positions and take the fight to those blood thirsty terrorists. The stronger the better, the latest in military technology the better. They fight for us. Give them the tools. The CBC, the Media hourde should be relegated to the trash bin of history for the way they behave. They fail to realize we are at war and do not have the luxury of picking apart our military, our government ( now we have a decent PM who understands the fundamentals) endlessly carping about inanities while behaving like boorish swine.
Stop wasting time and let’s get this fight done.
Each act that disrespects our military , our PM and our government and hinders their efforts to defend and protect us is an act that aids and comforts the enemy. The media better get that and soon!
Jason – in response to your comment below
So what’s the point here? Because this anon woman didn’t like the media coverage of a a private funeral in which she was involved, we are supposed to conclude that the government is right to ban the media from a public ceremony?
The answer – YES!
The thing the irks me is this Liberal sense of entitlement has trickled down to the masses. The star is full of outraged lefties not allowed to see the dead. “We have rights as Canadians” they scream. Rights over private Canadian families mourning their dead sons, husbands, fathers?
I’m afraid these bloody Liberals have succeeded in raising a nation of peeping Toms.
Off topic, but the Spanish Socialist Party has now granted full human rights to the Simian population. That’s right, any chimp in socialist Spain has the same rights as a human – because there’s so little difference between monkey DNA and human DNA.
Where stand the socialist commentators on this? Will this become the next great plank in Jack and Olivia’s (r)evolutionary march? Restitution for all the caged apes down through history? Could monkey/man marriage be far behind?
@LGF
Hey bigpiggysicko how about when your daddy dies we send a bunch of scumballs to harass and bother you while you cry? What a good reason for retroactive birth control.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/04/26/sinai-blast.html
“Two suicide bombers attacked an air base in the Sinai Peninsula on Wednesday which is home to a multinational peacekeeping force made up mostly of Canadian soldiers.
The Multinational Force and Observers (MFO) said in a statement that none of its personnel was injured in the attack just north of its base in el Gorah, Egypt. However, it did say that a vehicle had been damaged.”
At the end of the piece:
“The Canadian contingent consists of 29 volunteers, from the country’s armed forces, ranging in rank from corporal to colonel,”
Two points – firstly the posting to MFO is a normal rotation not a volunteer post. I had several Canadians working for me when I was there as part of my staff and they were posted as part of a normal career structure.
Secondly the MFO has some 2000 odd soldiers, three infantry Battalions (Fiji US and Colombia) with supporting staff and choppers etc from NZ Norway Australia Uruguay France Italy etc.
Why did CBC get their facts so wrong when they even mention the MFO website in their article? Are they trying to play UP the very small (although welcome) Canadian contribution and therefore the danger or what?
I emailed them – no correction 12 hours later!
My god, bcl – your ignorance is boundless. You seem to be ‘frozen in stupid’. It’s really quite astonishing to read your posts. They are always the same. They are always factually incorrect; they have one agenda – to express your hostility to good government and your support for the Liberals, the party of corruption and money laundering. Incredible.
Rather than reading a MSM propaganda rag, read the Canadian Heritage protocols; the flag on the Peace Tower is NOT flown at half-staff for each and every military death. The Peace Tower flag is ONLY flown at half-staff on the full day (from sunrise to sunset) of November 11th. That’s protocol; that’s tradition.
Harper is observing due protocol. Get it? Due protocol. He isn’t Chretien – who ordered the Peace Tower flag half-staffed ONLY for the ‘four-friendly-fire’ casualties – and Chretien did that for Political Partisan purposes – to bolster anti-Americanism. Chretien didn’t give a damn about the military; he reduced their funds to nothing, permitted them to use 40 year old equipment, purchased rusted subs – a vicious and narcissistic and unprincipled man.
Harper, unlike Chretien, has principles. Harper has ethics. He is observing due protocol and not singling out some, and ignoring others – for that Peace Tower flag.
And, bcl, our local ignoramus, the flags on OTHER buildings, such as Defence, such as military barracks ARE flown at half-staff for each death. OK?
So, bcl, your ignorance is incredible, your aversion to facts is astonishing.
Oh- and you never, ever, answer questions.
Why not?
Therefore, in conclusion, Harper’s reasoning about the flags is NOT crumbling. It can’t; he’s following protocol, as outlined in the Canadian Heritage rules. OK?
A couple of things. While it is a chainlink fence, like most bases, including the armoury that I walk past on my way to work, the chain link fences are topped with barbed wire. Sure, they don’t have to look through it, but there is some there.
As well, I will continue to slow down by 10 km/h for accidents by the side of the road. I do so not to rubberneck, but out of concern for the safety of the people involved and emergency personnel. The OPP requested that of the public a couple years back.
John M Reynolds
“Each act that disrespects our military, our PM and our government and hinders their efforts to defend and protect us is an act that aids and comforts the enemy. The media better get that and soon!”
Snowbunnie, please don’t take this personal, but that is precisely the propaganda sleight-of-hand that should have no place in a democracy.
You are putting disrespect/disagreement/criticism of the PM and/or of the government on a par with lack of support for the troops, with hindering defence efforts, and even treason. If I were in government, I would consider this ideal. There would be no further need of discussion, politics or even democracy. The government could govern as it sees fit in the national interest as perceived, and everybody else would salute or shut up.
Would your opinion be the same if we had a Liberal government?
If we had a liberano government do you really think the MSM would say or do anything against them? As it sits they are all guilty of treason.
“The Harper rationale for not flying the flag at half-staff continues to crumble. From the Montreal Gazette:”
BCL:
I think that you are really missing the point here. The protocol for half-staffing the flag on the Peace Tower has been readily available on Cdn Heritage Ministries website for quite some time.
It has always been the case that the PM has the authority to order that particular flag lowered at his discretion.
Chretien changed the practice when the “friendly fire” incident occured. Although many say that was a result of his desire to poke the American in the eye, his motivation is not at issue. What is at issue is that the Canadian military is founded on a very proud tradition, and many of us think that it is a good idea to respect that tradition. Basically, the tradition is founded on the basis that all fallen members of the CAF should be treated equally and with common respect.
And the irony of Chretien, who demonstrated nothing but contempt for our military, posturing by lowering the PT flag would be humourous if it wasn’t so sad.
The fact is, many politicians, including Moore, really don’t know what the protocol and traditions are, and they can be forgiven for their lack of knowledge.
But this unseemly furor being initiated by media and politicians over the issue is a grave insult to the sacrifices made by the fallen soldiers. I cannot fathom why these people think it is OK to try to make political points using the bodies of dead soldiers as a springboard.
The PT flag is a unique symbol. It is the country’s special flag. If you start mucking with tradition, where does it end?
For example, in the case of one of the solder’s who died in Afganistan, the PT flag was not lowered. Why? Was his life less relevant? We’ll never know.
And anyone who has ever served knows that combat operations are an extension of the nearly endless training exercises undertaken at home. If a soldier dies in a training accident at Petawawa, does the PT flag get lowered too? Clearly the base flags would be lowered. But if the PT isn’t lowered, does that mean his life is less valuable? Or that the sailor who died in the submarine fire, an accident in a non-combat situation, was more important because the PT flag was lowered to mark his death?
Treating the PT flag in the traditional manner eliminates these inequities.
Shirley mentioned Stephen Fletcher: Man of courage; a warrior in his own right.
Stand with Stephen Fletcher. Note his mention of the “media”.
Stephen Fletcher,Conservative M.P., Charleswood-St. James-Assiniboia riding; Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health.
Standing up for Canada: Stephen Fletcher stands in the House of Commons. Bravo,Bravo, Bravo. +
Fletcher stands in the House of Commons
Demonstrating through action that “everything is possible”
By Garry Angus
On Dec. 8th, using a special wheelchair to elevate himself to a standing position, Conservative MP and senior health critic Steven Fletcher rose to address the House of Commons during question period. It was a personal “first” for Fletcher and significant for raising awareness of the ability of people with disabilities, and the requirements for their active participation as full citizens.
Fletcher, who represents the Charleswood – St. James riding of Winnipeg, was elected last June 28th, beating out former Winnipeg mayor Glen Murray. Fletcher, a quadriplegic resulting from a 1996 car accident, is the first person with a significant disability elected to Canada’s top government.
Commenting on this ‘first’ in an interview for the Disability News, Fletcher says, ” I’m amazed on the one hand, and then not on the other hand� after going through the [electoral] process”.
In the very competitive nomination process, Fletcher was faced with tough questions about his ability to do the job from a wheelchair. “The general feeling of the community out there was, “How is he going to get there; how is he going to fly; how is he going to door knock?”” says Fletcher.
He found that Winnipeg major media outlets, radio and television, were not wheelchair accessible, making it necessary for him to “give his pitch” as he says, from phone or at a remote location.
” I had to demonstrate through action that everything was possible, ” Fletcher said.
Beating out the former Winnipeg mayor Murray sent Fletcher, with his unique perspective, to Ottawa and the House of Commons – first and foremost as the representative of his constituents and for issues affecting all Canadians, not only people with disabilities, he said. + more…
http://www.reachdisability.org/news/050210_fletcher_stands_in_the_house_of_commons.html
Lord love a duck, Free, what is the point of painting the MSM as the enemy? Look, I had no trouble falling out of love with the Liberals from my daily intake of MSM, and had some pretty nasty LTTE (about Gagliano and Radwanski, for instance)published instantly.
Abandon the MSM-prop-of-the-Liberals line. The MSM are not responsible for the conservative years in the wilderness – the Conservatives were. And the current spat is churlish and will neither win you friends nor influence people (in your favour, that is.)
Bruce – thanks – that was an excellent post.
By the way, Lorrie Goldstein has a nice outline of the ‘flag flap’ in his april 26 column in the Toronto Sun. He critiques the Liberals, who gutted the amount spent on defence to 1.1% of GDP, which is 17th out of 19 NATO members, just ‘ahead of Luxembourg’. He critiques the NDP, with their history of “anti-NATO, anti-NORAD, anti-military’.
He asks – why don’t these ‘flag-flappers’ “support decent pay, pensions, housing and survivor benefits”… “why don’t they demand they be given the best weapons, uniforms, training, and equipment”…rather than “ancient airplanes that can’t get off the ground, helicopters that fall from the sky and submarines that leak”.
All of that – is directly and only, due to the Liberals.
The only thing I object to in Goldstein’s column, is his support for the media at the base in Trenton. I agree with Harper – that’s a private matter for the families and we, voyeurs, rubber-neckers, have no right to intrude on that privacy.
Peace is an aberration in the “story” of mankind. War is the norm.
There are those who cry out for peace when there is no peace.
There are those who style themselves “peace activists”; there are so-called peace-keepers.
Then there are the peace makers; the soldiers, the warriors.
Blessed are the peace makers. +
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for it is they who will be recognized as sons of God. … Online Parallel Bible � Blessed � Children � Happy � Peacemakers …
bible.cc/matthew/5-9.htm – 6k –
The MSM is the enemy. They lie, spin, twist, etc. I have witnessed many violations of the treason act by these scum. They lost my trust a long time ago. One would think you must be one of them to defend the lies they spread so well.
OMG, I never thought it would happen but Steve d actually made a point: The return of the soldiers to their loved ones was a PRIVATE moment and to sensationalize it for the sake of a spot on the nightly news is just wrong. As was mentioned earlier, it just isn’t news anymore but an op-ed piece where “journalists” ask each other questions about what they think about it Trust me, not everything has to be done like Sports Beat.
Say what you want but the Canadian military is a family of sorts and as such I would never want to subject any of my family to the media unnecessarily, especially is times of grief. Remember this is not a JFK being flown back from Dallas where the press never really hounded Mrs K & family.
ET, I am sorry that I have to appear as the defender of the Liberals, but the facts should not be ignored.
The decline of the CF in the ’90s cannot be blamed solely on the Liberal Government. “Rust out” was a condition that the CF tried to address in the 1987 White Paper, but the Mulroney Government couldn’t find the money either.
There is only so much money any government has to spend, and there are statutory obligations, as well as competing priorities and requirements. Rightly or wrongly – fortunately? – Defence has not been a major requirement and priority for Canadian governments for decades.
If you were old enough to have to make ends meet in the mid-’90s, you will recall what the financial state of Canada was. I came back after five years overseas, and the feeling of despair among my contacts was palpable. Also recall that the Cold War was over, and that there were expectations of a “Cold War bonus” in the form of defence savings, since we no longer faced an enemy on the expensive “high-intensity” battlefield. Can you imagine the hue and cry if the government (regardless of party) had diverted additional billions to DND under these circumstances? There was no perceived requirement, and there certainly was no money.
Blame the Liberals for what they did wrong, but stick to what they actually did. We’ll know soon how Defence will fare in the Conservative budget.
And Free, I never worked in or for the MSM in any capacity, and stand by the views and recommendation you don’t like.
Abandon the MSM-prop-of-the-Liberals line. The MSM are not responsible for the conservative years in the wilderness – the Conservatives were. And the current spat is churlish and will neither win you friends nor influence people (in your favour, that is.)
Posted by agitfact
well said.
Bigcitylib said:
“Now Afghanistan is a political problem”
But it was no problem when the Liberal government sent them there in the first instance?
The logical connectors are just stunning!
The Liberals were inconsistent in their policy of lowering the flag. Harper as is his nature made a decision and that is the flag will only be lowered on Nov. 11th. Good decision and Graham is a hypocrite for challenging the government for this decision because Graham made the same decision in Nov. 2005.
Watching coffins on a conveyor belt and being carried to a waiting hearse is ghoulish and morbid in the extreme. The only reason the MSM want to be there is so they can videotape the grieving families for their newscasts. It is disrespectful to our military. By allowing the MSM to cover the repatriation it allows them to have every wingnut on air to say they support the troops but don’t like the mission. Give me a break. Once again Harper is showing leadership. He makes a decision and it makes sense. He is not covering anything up. We saw the ramp ceremony in Khandahar and saw wall to wall coverage all weekend. What more do we need? If the families want to open the funeral for the loved one to the media it is their right. Then the media can proceed with their ghoulish activity. Once again, if it bleeds, it leads. Shame on them.
First, to the Canadian forces widow who wrote to Kate at SDA, my deep condolences on the loss of your husband and the father of your children. I hope and pray that aside from the government which was not helpful–and I note that it must have been the Liberal government as Mme Clarkson was still the GG–you have the support of your family and friends. I am one Canadian who is deeply grateful for the sacrifice your husband made on our behalf and on behalf of the free world. Both of my grandfathers served in WWI and WWII and my father served in WWII. By God’s grace, they came home…
I am grateful that you have said, so eloquently, how intrusive the MSM can be at a moment of private grief. I believe that the CPC policy of making the return of slain soldiers to Canada a time of private, family grief is sound, and you have underlined the truth of this sensibility.
I am going to forward a copy of your letter to my CPC MP and to Bill Graham, the Leader of the Opposition.
Thank you, again, for taking the time to let us know what the reality is for families who have lost a loved one in battle.
God bless you and your family.
Lakota:
“The General Hillier muzzling story was invented by a reporter who is now the new head of the Parliamentary Press gallery. In her article she claimed that “an anonymous source” and “according to an un-named official” said that the General had to clear all of his speeches with the PMO. Good reporting huh! ”
Deaner:
“Not correct – as the PMO has stated, and Hillier’s ofice has confirmed, the PMO asked Hillier to advise them of the subjects he would be covering in public statements so that Harper could be prepared to respond if asked about them. The PMO did not assert any right to determine the content of Hillier’s statements, or even to be made aware of the specific comments in advance. Hillier’s office was quite adamant that he would refuse either request in any event.”
Well, thats interesting considering my husband heard this from the lips of his base commander, and I also heard this from my father who works at NDHQ who has also heard this same thing first hand, from his CO. I havent read or heard about the gag order via the media, just through military sources that I consider very good.
Military members in general are always briefed on what they can and cannot say to the media. They are not allowed to express a political affiliation, displeasure or to censure the government in anyway. What makes you think the top brass is exempt from this? My husband is not even allowed to wear civilian clothing with “statements” nor is he allowed to attend any demonstrations, rallys or protests.
But hey, beleive what you want.
I am a regular force infantry soldier (PPCLI). I have been deployed to Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. I have not been to Afghanistan yet, but I eagerly await my turn to go there and do my duty to help the people there who cannot help themselves. I and many other Canadian soldiers all know the risks, and have decided that sometimes there are more important things to worry about than our own personal safety. We are not children, misled, unknowing, and unthinking robots following some blind policy set in Ottawa or Washington. We know what the issues are. We chose to serve our country. We chose to do what we do because we feel it to be the right thing, and we act on it. Now the recent flag flap and all the bother about the media being denied access to the arriving caskets has raised some important points. First I would like to address the point of where was all this discussion when we were being blown to hell and killed in the former Balkans in the �90s? That was Peacekeeping you say and thus acceptable to be marginalized by the media and the rest of Canadian society? Hypocrisy! The Liberals sent us to these places and when we got into firefights, shot missiles at tanks and got wounded and/or killed, it was hushed up far more effectively than anything that Harper or even G. Bush could have dreamed of. The Battle of Medak Pocket is one example, coming to public attention years after the incident. Why are casualties only now really being hyped up by the media? The media and opposition politicians have an agenda, and there are using dead soldiers to promote it. At least this is what appears to be happening to me. The Harper government is not trying to hide deaths and casualties. How could they with the sheer amount of media in Afghanistan right now. If it happens last night it will be news by morning. If you ask the soldiers, they will for the most part tell you that they would just as well prefer it if people (this includes the media) would just let them get on with it, do their damn jobs and get home safely. Without all the hype and hoopla. Quit making every injury and death a national catastrophe, and start focussing on the good that those soldiers did! They want to hear how Cpl Bloggins�(fake name) gave stuffed animals to the local children, and everyone liked him, and he saved three of his fellow soldiers before being killed in a fierce firefight with Taliban insurgents. That is what the soldiers want to tell, and that is what I feel, the people want to hear and see. As for the casket homecoming ceremony, if so much as one child from the deceased family doesn�t want publicity, then that is it, no media present and to hell with the right to know and inform. As for the Flag at half-mast. For myself, if I am killed overseas, I would rather die knowing that the flag of my country will continue to fly high and proud, and that my death, though tragic, was in service to a higher cause and in the name of the people of my country. I know that my unit and base, even the town I live in will lower their flags to let the local people know that one of their own has died. For the rest of the country, watch the news (if you can still stand them that is) or listen to the radio, just like everyone else does for when one of us is wounded or falls. On November 11th, the flags will be at half-mast for ALL soldiers who have died, no matter when, where or the circumstances that were involved. Lets just apply some common sense, decency and respect to these matters and give the families of the wounded and killed, a bit of space and peace.
BCL…
when are you going to quit re-gurgitating the same trash over and over and over. give it a rest.
“Bottom line is there is no protocol , or the Liberals were already following it. That’s what the various revelations of the past couple of days have demonstrated.”
BCL:
I trying really, really hard to be courteous and polite to you, because I believe you merit it. You are not a troll, and you often add interesting aspects to the discussions here.
But to say there was no protocol is to deny facts staring you in the face! Read Gen. Lewis’column in the National Post yesterday. He was clear about the past protocol. Talk to a vet. Visit any branch of the Royal Canadian Legion, or read the quote below from today’s Ottawa Citizen:
“…Bob Butt, a national spokesman for the Royal Canadian Legion, said the Legion was initially opposed to the practice. But once the flag was lowered for the first Afghanistan casualties, that started a tradition that should continue, he said.
“If you do it for one, do it for all,” he said. “You can’t be selective.”
Cliff Chadderton, chairman of the National Council of Veteran Associations, which represents 55 veterans’ groups, said it was a “mistake” to start the half-staffing in the first place. It unfairly distinguishes those who die in Afghanistan from those who have died in past wars, he said.
The memories of soldiers who have died in Afghanistan, he added, should be commemorated along with those of every other military death when the flag is lowered on Nov. 11, Remembrance Day.
“We don’t draw a distinction on a death in Afghanistan or a death in Normandy,” he said…”
To call Chretien’s change to a tradition that extended back to the Boer War a “protocol” is akin to stating that Chretien’s interest in the military extended past putting a helmet on backwards.
Oh and by the way, before you start comparing Harper to Bush on this issue, please note the prectice of denying the media access to the unloading of coffins at the Dover airbase was initiated under Clinton.
Chretien altered the tradition because he was a vicious, narcissistic bully who wanted to score political, anti-American points by using the corpses of dead soldiers.
And to clarify my personal position, until Chretien was elected, I was a life-long Liberal (and being a vocal Trudeau supporter in Calgary during the NEP era was no picnic, believe me). Once Chretien took office, and I saw first-hand what a corrupt SOB he and his minions were, I switched sides forever.
Jennifer (12:04 p.m.): You say, “I worry that this media ban will eventually lead to a permanent gag order concerning all the Afghan deaths and events.”
Excuse me?
There are three stages in this process:
1. The slain wo/men in their coffins are given a military send-off home to Canada with cameras and embedded media personnel reporting. Anyone who wanted to saw the four flag-draped coffins in Kandahar. No cover-up here, no “gag order.”
2. The coffins of the slain soldiers arrive in Canada and out of respect for the mourning families, no cameras and no MSM “reporters” are given access to this event. Given that three out of four of the families did not complain about this protocol, I don’t know what the fuss is about–except a shameless and brazen attempt by the MSM to use our fallen soldiers and their families as a cudgel against Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his government.
3. When families arrange for the funerals of their loved one, they can invite the MSM to cover the funeral, to talk to them, etc.
So there is no attempt to gag anyone or cover up anything, and any suggestion to the contrary is to ignore the facts of what the CPC is doing here.
Again, Bruce – many thanks for an excellent post.
It’s remarkable about bcl; she’s ‘stuck in stupid’. Now – she’s saying that ‘there is no protocol’..other than that the PM can do what he wants with the flag. Ridiculous.
I suggested he check out the Department of Canadian Heritage
http://www.pch.gc.ca/
She obviously hasn’t bothered to do that; she prefers fiction to fact.
As you point out, there IS a long-established protocol. The Peace Tower flag is only lowered to half-staff on Nov. 11th. Period. Other flags on Defence Headquarters, military barracks, town halls, may be lowered at other times – but – that Peace Tower flag is only – Nov. 11th.
So now, bcl, denies truth; denies that there IS a protocol. Chretien broke that protocol – for his own political agenda. He wanted to provoke a giant anti-American emotion in Canada; he used the deaths of those soldiers, for his own political purposes. He broke protocol. But, bcl, locked in ‘stupid’ – won’t accept the truth.
Harper is following the protocol, exactly as outlined by the official government heritage mandate.
By the way – I’ll continue to blast the MSM for their anti-Harper and anti-CPC agenda. I’m NOT saying that the decline of the PC party was due to the MSM! That’s a different issue.
I’m saying that the MSM moved into a role, particularly during the time of Chretien, as his propaganda tool. Chretien governed by propaganda, by behind-the-scenes arrangements, by money laundering in Quebec, to pay for Liberal ridings, by cronyism. The MSM never critiqued him, never criticized. And now, the MSM has become accustomed to that privileged role as the Mouthpiece of the PMO…and doesn’t like being relegated to conveying FACTS, rather than writing FICTION.
In regard to the flag flap, those that know something of what it means to be a soldier, know, understand and applaud that the flag MUST fly, even in the face of death.
To lower the flag during the course of battle (and we remain “in the course of battle”, in Afghanistan), is to surrender. Soldiers fight so that the sovereign banner of the nation, and its principles, may be held strong and high for all to see. This is one of the oldest traditions in a military history. Soldiers expect nothing less that the banner under and for which they fought and died to remain held high, regardless how grave the effort, how horrific the losses. A nation which lowers its flag in the face of battle signifies its surrender.
This is part of the purpose of Remembrance Day, so that a nation may in concert, and with pride, and humility, and in defiance of its enemies, dip its ensign not in surrender, but in salute to those who gave it life.
But those who from personal grief or simple lack of understanding would lower the flag, simply do not comprehend the commitment the soldier has made: to offer his life so that the flag of the nation would NOT come down.
The flag on the Peace Tower must only be dipped for matters of state. The soldier’s vow, in life, and in death, is to keep it flying high. By breaking the faith, the previous government signaled its contempt for the sacrifice. It was to time to set it right.
God rest them all.
The only time the Liberal party of Canada cares anything about the military, is when they are looking for votes. to hear Liberals screaming about anything to do with the military sickens me.
When my brother returned from Somalia, the press treated his unit as if they were a bunch of baby murderers.
I even remeber a cartoon that portrayed Canadian soldiers as goose stepping fascists.
So please….lefties and the press….leave the families of the deceased soldiers alone.
Oh ya…I served from 77-85…never once was the flag lowered on the peace tower for any my 6 buddies that died while serving in my various regiments.
“A nation which lowers its flag in the face of battle signifies its surrender.”
Nicely put, Skip…
For the very same reason, our national flag is never “dipped” on parade. Regimental colours etc. can be dipped on review, but the flag of the nation is always held high.
It’s a real shame this sort of material isn’t part of school curriculum any more. Heck, do we even have flags in classrooms these days?
Volk of PPLI said:
“First I would like to address the point of where was all this discussion when we were being blown to hell and killed in the former Balkans in the �90s? That was Peacekeeping you say and thus acceptable to be marginalized by the media and the rest of Canadian society? Hypocrisy! The Liberals sent us to these places and when we got into firefights, shot missiles at tanks and got wounded and/or killed, it was hushed up far more effectively than anything that Harper or even G. Bush could have dreamed of. The Battle of Medak Pocket is one example, coming to public attention years after the incident. Why are casualties only now really being hyped up by the media? The media and opposition politicians have an agenda, and there are using dead soldiers to promote it. At least this is what appears to be happening to me. The Harper government is not trying to hide deaths and casualties. How could they with the sheer amount of media in Afghanistan right now. If it happens last night it will be news by morning.”
The simple answer is that in ’93 the build out of the mass media internet connection was still in its infancy. Now 13 years later anybody with a blogging site can become an armchair analyst.
I agree, yes it was damn hypocritical then and is still hypocritical now.
If the government in its wisdom sends troops into a Medak firefight or a slaughter like Rwanda then the public should know about the general involvement and the reasons for it. Operational details are obviously off limits, but it goes without saying that most Canadians would at the very least expect that their soldiers have reliable tools and support at their disposal. Have the troops been given a fair shake at these times? Probably not, but they should have been.
Political posturing won’t go away, but steps can be taken to minimize the obvious “taking out the trash” for the cameras nonsense.
In ’93 ignored and in ’06 cause celeb; go figure.
ET, the alleged role of the MSM is only a tangent on this “Widow” thread, but it keeps on cropping up as a fixation and source of conservative
tribulations on this and other threads.
Again, the Liberals’ shenanigans – from “Shawinigate” to HR billion to Gagliano to Gun Registry to Radwanski to Sponsorhip to Mr. Dithers and Dingwall – were reported and discussed extensively in the MSM, and famously ridiculed in CBC (!) cabaret programs. If the MSM had been Chretien’s or the Liberal Party’s “propaganda tool,” I and millions of other Canadians would never have known about these scandals – and the Conservatives would still be in the wilderness.
Like it or not, the facts mitigate against conservative MSM claims. If you can name a post-1993 Liberal scandal this consumer of MSM news hasn’t read or heard about, I will be happy to apologize.
Skip (7:36 p.m.):
“The flag on the Peace Tower must only be dipped for matters of state. The soldier’s vow, in life, and in death, is to keep it flying high. By breaking the faith, the previous government signaled its contempt for the sacrifice. It was time to set it right.”
Thanks for your post. Who would know?
I am deeply moved when I find out that for the soldier it is imperative that our flag keep flying high. Our soldiers, by definition, are not self-interested; they put themselves in harm’s way in order to protect the sovereign rights of their country–and of their love ones to lives of freedom, responsibility, and peace.
How DARE the self-interested, selfish, and sycophantic members of the “loyal” (sic) Opposition and the MSM skew the meaning of our flag flying from our Parliament Buildings? They need to go back to Civics 101–only problem is, in Canada, we don’t have Civics 101. Since Trudeau, we’ve been kept in perpetual ignorance of our history and of our government and military protocols.
‘Time to bring Civics 101 back. And, yes, we do have flags in our classrooms, but they’re mostly paper posters. Perhaps we need to have real flags installed.
Sheila, where are you when we need you?
Unfortunately, the MSM seems to have taken the deaths of these men, and their families, hostage.
I believe that the Canadian public has more empathy with the soldiers and their families than with MSM (I do … just projecting).
It is unfortunate that MSM has chosen to “spit the dummy” (Aussie term dummy=soother”) at a time that detracts from honor, duty, and supreme sacrifice of our brave sons.
RIP. My condolence’s to all families that have lost a loved one and my deep appreciation for the sacrifice they have made.
It’s the ratings, Stupid!
We should all follow Molarmauler’s example and quite watching CTV and CBC. Jane Taber is the worst!