“Did you know that the Jews murdered 25 of the Prophets of Allah, and that their black history is full of crimes of murder and corruption?
“Did you know that the criminal Jews frequently revile and curse our Lord? Among the things they have said is ‘The hand of Allah is fettered [Koran 5:64].’ [But] Allah is above this.
“Did you know that the Jews made several attempts to murder our beloved Prophet [Muhammad], but that Allah the Omnipotent saved him from their plot?
“Did you know that the corruption and deviance widespread in the world today are the result of activity and planning by the Jews, who are interested in leading people astray, away from the path of Allah?
Another antisemitic posting, in the “Members Participation” section, headlined “Murdering Children – Part of the Jewish Religion” by “Mahmoud Nabil,” claims that it is possible “to collect evidence from the Torah about the Jewish concept of annihilating [others], which has reached the level of ritual.”
More translation of the Muslim Brotherhood Children’s Website* up at Memri.
I am certain they picked up this non sense from early Christianity. Many Christians even today think there is a Jewish conspiracy. This Islamic anti-semitism does not surprise me at all. What does surprise me is how the Jews manage to survive through all this hate.
steve are you some kind of apologist for the muslims?
Kate posts an anti-semitic post from a muslim publication and you blame it on christians. Are you fucking nuts? Give your head a shake.
dimwit.
Is that like saying the nazis picked up their “nonsense” from muslims Steve?
People spouting crap like this to children need a good .308 lobotomy.
The sooner the better.
I prefer the .45 behind the head. It gets the point across…
Wow, that was amazing. He’s confronted with more evidence of hatred and instantly thinks of blaming Christians. I figure Steve had to be one of those people that would prefer a muslim prime minister.
Colin:
Ya have to open up more…express your feelings and say what you really mean…otherwise you’ll explode, bottling it all up like that 🙂
That said, ditto to your post to steve d.
What I continually wonder about is the why of anti-semitism.
Why does this hate continue to exist in a world where information is so readily exchanged and the truth can get to almost everyone on the planet so quickly.
It’s almost like Jewish people want to be persecuted/hated and feel guilty.
Why don’t they step up and deliver some positive PR.
Don’t any of you read to far into this and claim I’m anti-semitic because I’m not. I have Jewish friends/family members that I respect and admire.
I just don’t get it.
Those damn joos and their freakishly huge feet!
Blogwell,
I was with you until this:
“It’s almost like Jewish people want to be persecuted/hated and feel guilty.”
It is not the responsibility of the victim to justify their innocence.
It is the responsibility of the hater to provide a cogent, reasoned explanation of their hatred. In this regard, those who hate Jews have failed miserably to justify themselves — and that is simply because there is not justification.
They hate for the sake of hatred, and no amount of “positive PR” will change that.
Don’t blame the victims.
Alan
Try reading the Talmud sometime–I refuse to tar all Jews with the same brush but excerpts from the Talmud regarding Gentiles and pedophiles will make you shudder.
Blogwell
How would you define good PR to a suicide bomber or a taliban or an SS stormtrooper?
“I have Jewish friends/family members that I respect and admire.”
The same old canard of the anti-semite; the cliche & last refuge of the bigot.
The snake has poison in its mouth.
Of course, stevie d, the typical clueless lib pansy can’t resist trying to find some evil symmetry or root cause indicting Christianity.
So, stevie, our symmetry and root cause meister, your thoughts on this: We’ve got a major religious group that goes on a murderous jihad, issues homicidal fatwas over their perceived disrespect of Mohammed by some lame and really innocuous cartoons and yet their standard textbooks contain vile filth regarding Judaism for their school kiddie’s all over the ME; thereby disrespecting another’s religion which they claim isn’t an Islamic thing to do.
As contact with early Christians was the culprit, why not double down and go for the whole pot with historical specifics.
Bonus points, stevie, if you can work in post- traumatic stress d/o from Moses’s parting of the Red Sea.
Extra bonus points if you can indict the Apostles.
Extra bonus points, big time, if you can indict the Blessed Mother.
Go for it……
Notice the illogical path of two of our posters:
1)steve d. He moves from a Certainty (no proof other than His Own Certainty; a fallacy of false authority) that the cause of Islamic anti-semitism is –>Early Christianity.
He provides no evidence for the connection between Early Christianity and Current Muslim opinions. No evidence of any awareness of the latter with the former.
Then, he tries to substantiate the Early Christianity opinions by linking them to “Many Christians of today’ – several more fallacies. How many is many? Provide proof that the Christian of today is equivalent to the Christian of ‘early Christianity’ and that the latter has affected/caused the former.
And then, as noted by most other posters, he totally, completely, rejects any intentionality to ‘hate Jews’ amongst the Muslims. They are obviously, seen by Steve d as either hapless children, or mechanical robots. They make no decisions on their own.
Has he read the Qu’ran and read what it says about Others?
2)Then, we have Blogwell – another apologist for Islamofascism. I’d like to ask him – “It’s almost like Blogwell wants to be persecuted, hated and to feel guilty’. His comments are so irrational, so illogical, so biased – that he always provokes instant criticism. I guess that’s what he wants.
By the way, shouldn’t some HRC be involved in this? Isn’t it against our Charter as well – the promotion of hatred against an identifiable group? Has the Islamic Foundation of Canada been notified, and have they openly, publicly, rejected these comments?
I don’t wish to be a Steve d. apologist, but there may be a tiny shred of truth in his statement (as they say, in every good lie is a grain of truth). Christians (some) certainly have blamed the Jews for murdering Christ and some still do.
It is, of course, entirely incorrect and despicable to do so…Christ’s betrayal and rejection by the Jews was foreknown and part of the overall plan of God. God considers and has stated that the Jews are his chosen people…Christians and Muslims should NOT harbour ill will toward God’s chosen people.
Be that as it may, Christ is considered another prophet by the Muslims and they may also blame the Jews from a similar perspective (pure conjecture on my part…I have no knowledge of the issue).
So, damn Steve d. for his idiocy and the overall negative intent of his post, but we should acknowledge the tiniest grain of truth that is contained therein.
Now I realize that I’ve opened myself up for criticism for saying that, but hey, I’m a Libra…I can’t resist trying to add some balance.
I refuse to tar all Jews with the same brush but excerpts from the Talmud regarding Gentiles and pedophiles will make you shudder.
I shudder when I read Beowulf or a historic psychiatric textbook. What’s your point besides trying to sneak in your anti-semitism?
George,
Selective reading from the Talmud will get you anywhere. As will selective reading from the cannon of any religion.
I think the point is actually that the trouble starts as soon as religions get in the business of having “cannons”.
Sorry, but you set yourself up for that.
I think the trouble starts as soon as religions get in the business of being religions. Who do they think they are, praying and such.
We should just get all the religions together, and instead of having Allah, or Yahweh, or God, or Buddha,or Vishnu… we could call it “Bob”.
We should all pray to Bob… Bob will provide us with justice!
Bob will save the weak, praise be to Bob!!
In the minds of the steve d’s of the world Christians represent the greatest threat known to man. What is that threat?
…Well thats never really well articulated or substantiated, but its there, trust them.
Christians are at work subverting the political process, and trying to force their beliefs on everyone. Thats why its so important that Christian ideas are silenced, and banned from public discourse. We wouldn’t want their subversive ideas seeping into our society (sounds a lot like the of anti-semetic consperacy crowd doesn’t it?) Faith in this fairy tale allows them to glaze over the glarring problems with Muslim ideology and society, and concentrate their fury on the one religion at the heart of the problem.
Most Christians (especially the really scary Evangelicals) respect and honour the Jews as God’s chosen people. The idea that hating the Jews arose from early Christianity is rediculous, most of the founders of the Christian church were Jews. So any hatred of Jews that arose in some Christian circles is clearly a subversion of the religion and didn’t occur until much later.
Mulsims don’t need to take any lessons in hating Jews from Christians, they can simply look to their beloved Prophet for inspiration. He beheaded 800 Jewish men in one day, infront of their families in Medina.
Hey, Irma, you are grasping for the “tiniest grain”, a grain so subpartical that physicists haven’t a name for it.
Irma, when the Christians were gassing the children of Abraham, a more important Koran prophet, where was the Islamic world’s anger on that? I don’t remeber any fatwas issued on Hitler. Following your logic, of course.
The Christian kids being slaughtered in Darfur are the “prophet” Christ’s followers. That’s not saving them.
Arabs have been tribally killing each other consistently since Mohammed more than other group. Like the Sopranos, a murder in the family isn’t a big deal to them. They’ve got no problem with the Jews on that score.
I think the point is being missed; none of the comments against the Jews, at Memri, are related to early or late Christian texts. Or to Jewish texts. They are current propaganda – such as
“Did you know that the corruption and deviance widespread in the world today are the result of activity and planning by the Jews, who are interested in leading people astray, away from the path of Allah? ” And,
“Did you know that today the Jews are inciting the entire world against Islam and the Muslims, on the pretext of the war against terror, and that they are conspiring against the rest of the Muslim countries as they did against Iraq and Afghanistan?”
These have nothing to do with old religious texts or ‘hearsay texts’. I’m an atheist; I’m not interested in religion except to analyze its actions within societies – but -these comments are basic anti-semitism. to try to find some kind of ‘first causality’ (a biblical text) is irrelevant. It’s the voiced opinion NOW that matters – and the indivduals who write and express those opinions can change ..The question is – why don’t they? Why is it functional to have a Hated Other? (Such as Canadians have their anti-Americanism). Why?
Bill MacDonell said:
“We should all pray to Bob… Bob will provide us with justice!
Bob will save the weak, praise be to Bob!!”
No, No, No simply won’t do; we need something more inclusive:
The new transmogrified Trinity will be:
All Hail Bill, Bob and Brunhilda!! the new inclusive Trinity.
Oh your “Billness, Bobness, Brunhildaness” we adore you and praise you for you are the Best!
Now Brunhilda will sport braided hair, a long sword, horned helmet, and long trumpet. Want a call to arms we can deliver!?!
Kind of like California, if you haven’t heard of a new religion by coffee break; you start one.
Tone down the rhetoric a bit, please, Penny. I think I was very careful in what I said…and I did not condone ANY hatred by ANYONE of ANY group. I think it is fair to say that SOME Christians (“so-called” Christians or some sects, certainly) blame the Jews for Christ’s death…and that can be a source of hate for small-minded, misled, “so-called” Christian zealots. And there ARE some of those around. I didn’t say “early Christians”, as Steve d. did.
Try to see the “speck that is your own eye” while you rail (and rightfully so) about the “log that is another’s eye”. Again, in every lie is a grain of truth (and as I said, it’s tiny…but I believe that it is there).
Of course it never ceases to inspire people to hijack religion under the guise of political purpose to achieve certain definable ends.
Naturally, the Divine is always on the side of the proponent. Atheists and agnostics need not apply, they will have to confine themselves to the distortion of the secular political process.
Isn’t the pursuit of power and its retention grand?
The lesson in democracy is don’t fall asleep or you will get the government you deserve.
Hans, I believe a quote from Plato (or some other philospher of that ilk) was “The penalty for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors”.
Lest it gets missed amid the rhetoric, let me point out that Jesus is a jew.
All this bafflegab about christians being anti-semitic because jews murdered christ is ridiculous. The jews killed one of their own, and the method (crucifixion) was simply the common form of capital punishment in those days in the Roman Empire.
When talking about bigotry, let us not forget that bigotry simply means hatred or prejudice against any group, based on the anecdotal examples of a few members of that group.
Whether we are talking about Christians, Jews, or Muslims, making negative generalizations is usually just bigoted opinion.
We should be honest, however, when the multitude of anecdotal stories together illustrate the truth of the situation.
It is easy to discount a single voice complaining of injustice or of hatred, but when many, many voices tell similar stories of abuse, torture, murder and other oppression, including the indoctrination of children to hate all Jews, it is then no longer a lack of tolerance to condemn, or at least challenge a group that represents such widely reported violations of basic civil and human rights.
It is, and has been for a long time, the responsibility of Islamic leaders of the worldwide Islamic community to stand up and clearly and repeatedly condemn the actions of terrorists in their midst. That includes the propoganda being taught to children on the Muslim Brotherhood Children’s website.
The failure of Islamic leaders to do this, can only lead honest observers to conclude that the stories of jihad and fatwa and infidels truly represent the beliefs of mainstream Islam.
We can only conclude that the Muslims who claim that Islam is a peaceful religion are the minority, and do not faithfully reflect the sentiments of the majority.
At what point then does the rest of the world begin to challenge and condemn Islam.
I say it is later than you think.
3�-Year-old Egyptian Basmallah: Jews Are Apes and Pigs – Video
Memri.Org
http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?
Warning on Muslim schools ‘abuse’
Muslims could face a child abuse scandal on a par with the Catholic Church, a report has warned.
A group of Muslim leaders says the community is in denial about child abuse in religious schools, known as madrasas. The UK has about 700…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4831184.stm
Dar Al-Arqam Islamic Centre
Ontario
Homeschooling: A Muslim Point of View
…�Muslim Americans, for example, are the (Basham�s italics) fastest growing sub-group within the home-schooling movement. The number of home schooled Muslim Americans is predicted to double every year for the next eight years.�…
…Muslim families view public schools with concern because they are seen as places that can weaken the Islamic character. In the early grades, parents feel that sending their children to school creates confusion in establishing an Islamic identity. Children are exposed to many different holidays, mannerisms, and ideas that do not fit with Islam…
http://alarqam.com/almanar/homeschooling_muslim_view.php
Ima, any attempt to correlate the vileness of modern Islam with some footnote in the past – be it the Crusades, colonialization, whatever – gets a hit from me.
I’m sick and tired of pure unadulterated evil being given passes or the hesitency to condemn Muslim’s behavior because of root causes or some historic footnote. Individuals, groups, heads of governments, religions have choices. I really don’t care if Hitler, Stalin or Moussaoui sat too long in a wet diaper. We all have our issues.
I’m still not getting your “grain of truth” and where you are trying to go with it, but you are free to pursue it and I am free to say “that’s crap”.
An interesting juxtaposition I noticed in an earlier post, illustrates how your perspective tends to govern your opinion.
It has been said that Jews can justifiably hate Christians because it was Christians who persecuted and gassed them in WW2.
Within that frame of reference, this is a perfectly logical syllogism:
– Hitler was Christian
– Hitler hated Jews
= therefore Christians hate Jews
And yet I don’t know any Christians who believe Hitler was one, or condone any of his crimes.
Now imagine a Christian trying to have a conversation with a Jew, and the Jew refuses to associate with him because of Hitler.
The opinion is based on faulty logic, and the prejudice continues.
Likewise a Muslim who believes Jews are murderers and haters because of the false propoganda taught to them by their parents and Imams, might choose to avoid any contact with Jews, and may even decide to kill some as part of his faithful service to Allah and the Prophet.
Truth is the missing element.
Without it people will believe what they want to, and will act accordingly.
The truth might someday set us free, but as long as people buy the ridiculous idea that what’s true for one person is not true for another, then we are destined to never find it.
Truth is truth, and it is true for everybody.
Anything less is just politically correct BS designed to not offend any but the honest.
People need to grow a spine and some tough skin and start placing a premium on truth.
I think we are missing the point. This just proves that Muslim Governments in the ME have been
conducting a proxy war for years on the West and Jews. Hiding behind Radical terrorist.
It’s time they were called out.
Shit or get off the pot!
Anti-Jewism is as old as ancient Egypt. It just morphs into some new form every couple of generations. Jews have been hated as because they are capitalists and because they are communitsts; because they are rich and because they are poor; because they clique together and because they try to fit in. For quite awhile the canard was that they had performed deicide. After the enlightenment when religion became less important, the Nazi racial reason for hating Jews came up – they are Asiatic and they are taking our businesses and marrying our daughters. The present form is “they stole the land of the ancient Palistinians”. Some day this will be seen for just this generation’s version of the same old sickness.
Islam hates Jews because Islam knows that it ripped off the entire Torah and Talmud and New Testament. They have to posit that Jews are liars and terrible because the Koran has taken the Bibles and rearranged the contents and then added jihad to kill anyone who might know different.
When will it end?
Scott Merrithew – nice comments. I agree – there is an objective reality, and reality doesn’t consist only of how I or my group define it. Teaching people to hate, isolating them from each other, rejecting their experiences and insisting that their knowledge is only faith-based – leads to trouble.
By the way – you refered to both ‘a perfectly logical syllogism’ and ‘faulty logic’. As I’m sure you know, it is faulty and not ‘perfectly logical’. The syllogism you set up:
Hitler was Christian
Hitler hated Jews
Therefore, Christians hate Jews
is syllogistically faulty. Your major and minor premises are undistributed (Christian, Jews). Called the ‘illicit major and illicit minor’ faults.
Another example could be:
All dogs eat meat.
All dogs can bark.
Therefore, all meat-eaters bark.
Tell that to a cat.
As you say, the decision to consider and search for truth, rather than rely on fictional tales, is a key action. Why don’t Muslims around the world speak up, and reject this type of propaganda?
arrgh…..off topic….Hitler was not a Christian!
Being born and raised in a Christian family does not make you a Christian, going to a certian church does not make you a Christian. Belief in the power of Christ’s sacrifice to transform you into a new person makes you a Christian.
Hitler was a Nazi, what he did he did in the name of the Nazi movement, the horrors perpetrated by the Nazis demonstrate the antithesis of Christianity. (Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength & Love your neighbor as yourself)
Furthermore Hitler, along with Himmler, were trying to resurrect the traditions of ancient Germanic paganism in an effort to create a new blood cult, in following with the “pure blood” philosophy of the Nazi Aryanism. Hitler looked to astrology and numerology for guidence, not God.
Hitler was evil, please don’t insult me by calling him a Christian. The shoe just does not fit.
Thank you ET for the correction on my semantics. I’m not an expert on logic theory, but I think whether the syllogism involves Hitler and Jews, or dogs and cats, the error in reasoning is evident for the honest observer.
Somebody in an earlier post wondered how ignorance can continue to flourish with knowledge as close as the internet. Unfortunately, even if the truth is there, it is often difficult to rightly divide the truth from the spam and crap that is so pervasive.
Trying to find truth on the internet is risky business.
It is still better than total isolationism and insulation from all divergent influences though.
I think a forum such as this one, where people can propose and defend differing opinions, is an excellent place to expose yourself to all perspectives, and equip yourself with enough material on which to base an opinion.
My friends and family say I’m very opinionated.
I say if you don’t have an opinion on something, you’re just not paying attention!
Cheers.
Thank you Ryan.
My point exactly.
All these savages think the Jews are so great that they even teach their own children to be evil and hate filled towards Jews.
Jews are just like everyone else, a little more persecuted than most, but other than that they’re pretty much the same. But these savages, along with some others, think the Jews are some kind of master-race that’s able to rule the world by proxy – sorry whack-o’s but it just isn’t true.
Why don’t they step up and deliver some positive “PR.”
Blogwell, how about 150 Nobel prizes in all diciplines compared to the Mulsim world’s 8.
There are approximately 18 million Jews on the planet and one and half billion Muslims.
Would you accept that as PR or do you think they should get into Vaudville or something. Actually they created it.
Well how about the Movie industry? Well I think they pretty much started and still run that too … think Metro Goldwin Mayer etc. many movie stars are Jewish and musicains and politicians and bankers and Lawyers and Doctord and Business men … well they do try.
Let’s see now … there are Muslom Mullas, terroists and peasants. The women don’t count and the kids keep blowing up.
Forgive my large numbers of typos and errors. I am in a hurry. I have to follow a big rabbit down a hole in the ground.
The Jews are successful democratic capitalists in the heart of the 7th century gutter of Islam. They will always be vilified. They are everything that your basic mullah and macho, women abusing, Koran-thumping Islamic male doesn’t want to ever compete with. Mired in the non-science, non-capitalistic and non-human rights of Islam, why wouldn’t the Jews be objects that need destroyed in Islamic eyes.
The Palestinian rejection of the Oslo Accords proved a point that a fair settlement wasn’t their goal. They would have had to accepted the best, most generous offer, shut up and made it on their own. The Jews were generous. No country is required to return land gained in the spoils of war. Wars, mind you, that the Arabs always started. The Palestinians, who have failed to make the same desert bloom themselves, will squeal for European aid forever and continue doing their internal politics like the Sopranos.
Oh, and when these monsters defiled the Church of the Nativity during their hostage taking episode – peeing and defecating on the alter, literally and abusing the priests – what exactly was their root cause issue again, stevie d?
http://www.aish.com/seminars/whythejews/index.htm
this is an easy read on anti-Jewism.
eg.
” . . .the exquisite irony of Jewish history – Although Jews posed no military, political or economic threat,and were never more than a tiny fraction of the world�s population, they were always a major power in the eyes of mankind. Why? It is the message they carry � the Torah.
On a certain conscious level, people recognize the Jews� message as truth. Those unwilling to embrace the truth have found that the only way to rid themselves of it is to destroy the messengers � for the message itself is too potent to be dismissed.
That is what is so irksome about the Jews, and that is why, for some people, nothing less than total destruction of the Jews will do. If Judaism were just another ideology, people could laugh it off and continue on their merry way. But deep in his soul, every human being recognizes the essential truths of morality � people can�t just laugh it off. ”
Have you had a look at the updated;-
www’religionofpeace.com ?
How intense is the hate to beat your own boy with the feet off the floor. Muslim adult males seem frustrated and are taking it out on their kids?
The day by day list of killings and bombings is just un-ending. It goes on for 3/4ths of the blog page. Sick. TG
That is supposed to be..
http://www.religionofpeace.com
TG
I am late getting here today, but I can see that Steve d. has not got any smarter in the past few days. Steve you certainly have a warped sense of reality and I think there have been several posts on here that you should read over a few times. Maybe some sense will seep in.
Way to get the conversation going Steve d. This whole conversation would have been boring without you. Are you sure you are who you say you are? Let me see if I can do the same.
– I blame Bush for everthing including killer Bees.
– All Muslims are good, just misunderstood.
– What did we do wrong?
– Harper is evil and will destroy us all!!
– blah blah blah blah “barf’ blah blah blah
Ryan, adherance to a religious dogma is a matter of self-identification. If Hitler publicly identified himself as a Christian (and I don’t know with certainty that he did) then he was a Christian. Stalin, who self-identified as an atheist was an atheist, even if most atheists don’t like the association.
About sixty five years ago, in a small town called Noranda, I arrived late for school for the afternoon session. Since I lived about sixty feet from the school being late was a usual occurence for me. On the school grounds, covered in snow, were about fifteen people, gathered in a protective but peaceful group surrounded by a much larger multitude. I asked one of the latter what was going on, and he said,”They killed Jesus.” It was my first experience with anti semitism. I wandered out to the smaller group, and asked one of my best friends,”What the heck is going on?”. I was completely ignored, they had such a acceptance of the situation that all I could think of was, why dont you fight back? I found out later that the very acceptance of the situation was their battle. I like to think that those children have given me the beliefs and hope that has remained with me since then, my seventy third year.
Today, observant Christians are the best friends of Israel. It wasn’t always so.
Christians have/had a problem with Jews because Jews said that Jesus was not G-d.
Muslims have a problem with Jews (and Christians) because they (Christians and Jews) do not accept Mohammed as the Last of the Prophets.
Fundamentalist Atheists have a problem with practicing Jews and Christians, because they (Jews and Christians) bear witness to the existence of G-d.
Fundamentalist Atheists find common cause with Islam because they both want to put an end to Christians and Jews?
Zog
“If Hitler publicly identified himself as a Christian (and I don’t know with certainty that he did) then he was a Christian”
I don’t know that he did either, but it seems to be infered often, mostly by those who hate Christianity.
As for your statement “adherance to a religious dogma is a matter of self-identification. If Hitler publicly identified himself as a Christian,then he was a Christian” First of all, which is it? Does self-identification make you a Christian or adherance to religous dogma? One can identify himself as a Christian but not adhere to any dogma. Second, since when did Christianity teach that adhering to the rules (dogma) make you a Christian? It doesn’t. You can follow all the rules you want, but if your heart is not right with God, its all for naught.
How did Hitler adhere to Christian dogma? He didn’t, in fact he violated it in the most egregious ways. I can call myself a vegitarian but if I am constantly seen eating meat, then one would logically have to assume that I am in fact not a vegitarian. Self-identification means nothing. The only one who knows the heart of a man is God and the man himself.
Good posts Ryan!
Its about walking the walk.