As Canada focuses on Afghanistan and what may be a new and more pronounced role in geopolitics, led by a reinvigorated military, Canadians are asking themselves some difficult questions. One question often forgotten is; what are you personally willing to do? Cjunk tackles the question with a historic twist.
Through training and technology, our soldiers may reign supreme on the battlefield, but our civilization on the whole may have grown vulnerable in its affluence, opulence, progressiveness, and humanistic enlightenment. Cruder, more blunt forces unhindered by these, may now hold the advantage.
At Celestial Junk we take a brief historic sojourn to look at one of the world’s most powerful civilizations, and we find that it collapsed when is was, in fact, at its greatest. Opulence, decadence, and an unwillingness to sacrifice was a significant factor in its demise: CLICK
What am I personally willing to do?
1. Vote against any left-leaning political party (Libs, Dippers, Greens) who destroy our Armed Forces through lack of funding and respect.
2. Vote for any party (usually conservative) that removes funding from socialist lobby groups and make-work projects and then puts the money towards equipping our military.
2. I own several guns. If we’re ever invaded I will very happily use them.
I think that there is a place for mandatory service.
Given the street violence, the relative unhealthy lifestyle many children lead today, the increasing drop-out rate, I have to ask myself, would it kill an 18 to 21 year old kid to serve in the Military for a year.
They’d learn disapline, it would get them off the street and out of the bars, they’d get some travel in, and they would learn something.
Many other western nations have mandatory service, I don’t see why we should be immune to it either. Given the fact that we have such an inability to recruit, perhaps it is time that we really consider this.
We could also provide mandatory service as an option to minimum security offenders.
When I was a kid, we had around 75,000 people in Service… well, we had the 3rd strongest navy in the world too(albeit as a result of owning an aircraft carrier, I have no way to back up the 3rd strongest navy thing, I just remember my Dad whining that we did and one day we didn’t)
Anyway, we have forest fires, blizzards, flooding, hurricanes, avalanches… would it kill to have a service that could actually contribute a large amount to rescue, recovery, and reconstruction.
Maybe we could take some of the billions being wasted each year and put it towards kids in service to their country.
W.Macdonell: Not a bad idea, but there’s no money for funding. It’s all being spent on harm reduction centres for drug addicts.(sarcasm)
Here in Kelowna, we’re trying to decide where to put a “wet” homeless shelter for the losers who break into our cars and homes. “Wet” means they can shoot up, smoke up, or drink up on site, as is their Charter Right.
Military service might mean stress for some of these unfortunates.
william macdonnel you didn’t answer the question which was what would YOU DO. you answered what others can do. now come what would you do idea man? Shouldn’t you be concentrating on dollars wasted on gun registry? You sound simply trigger happy. Reasoning missing here sorry to say.
william macdonnel you didn’t answer the question which was what would YOU DO. you answered what others can do. now come what would you do idea man? Shouldn’t you be concentrating on dollars wasted on gun registry? You sound simply trigger happy. Reasoning missing here sorry to say.
I wonder if mandatory service would fly any better in Quebec than conscription has historically?
Personally I am for it.
Great blog.
Yet in our �progressive� magnificence, we may have lost our will to fight for what we hold dear.
One need look no farther than Europe, content with its socialist subsidies, where churches are more like quaint museums than places of worship, where replacement birthrates are seriouly declining and where the leftist elites have browbeaten any dissenting opinion.
9/11 woke a lot of us up. Most of us admire Bush for taking decisive action, hunting the terrorist vermin down in their own neighborhood with the full force of our military. Clinton did nothing.
No horrific train bombings, vile death threats written on Muslim protest posters or chanted on their streets, no unrelenting rabid anti-Semitism spewed by Muslims or the censoring of free speech seems to awaken any self-preservation among Europeans.
Dhimmitude is their fate unless something drastically alters that. I doubt it.
This is a very good question. Right off the top it seems to me the most important job is to educate people and convince them of the need. The cynical side of me thinks that will be a very hard task when you think about the kind of people who would stand by and let an innocent man get beaten to death on a bus or walk past some-one in need. Not forgetting the many other crimes against humanity committed here at home.
With that being said I am a woman, a mother and a humanitarian first and it kills me to think of Muslim women and children who are abused and want a way out. Children who a brain washed to become suicide bombers. Taught to hate freedom and despise those who have (many who take it for granted). Do any of us know ( Muslims, Christians etc.) with 100% certainty, how God or Allah judges our actions?
With that in mind, and not being of any particular faith, I believe in my heart that it is wrong to oppress the rights and freedoms of anyone based on sex, race or religion in this world, and certainly on our soil. For my part I would sacrifice whatever is needed at home or abroad to keep our land and ensure the freedoms and security of my children and their children.
Maybe God would take a dim view of that, I will deal with that when my time comes. For now I believe in protecting my children and in my heart I believe God looks at us all as his children and does not descriminate based on sex, color, or other factors beyond our control or level of understanding.
So count me in whether it’s peeling potatoes, packing supplies or whatever else I’m capable of.
I will tell my children we have to make sacrifices now to make for a better future. Better living conditions for those oppressed and freedom (from dictators and fanatics) for those who seek it.
Every Canadian citizen has a duty to learn and train in the use and deployment of small arms and conflict tactics…as in Switzerland…this way in peacetime we can spare the expense of a large standing army as we will have a large reserve force that can be called up if needed. Militia service for citizens between the ages of 18 and 28 should be manditory….2 years manditory service/training in a citizens reserve force (cadet reserves). Those who have served will be required to qualify on a course of fire to keep their access to the defensive small arms they trained with.
Canadians should stand ready to defend themselves, their nation and their freedom from aggressive criminal/hostile force both foreign and domestic and they should have access to the training and means to solidify a national civilian reserve defense force.
What I advocate was the way The national defense policy functioned prior to the age (I believe Mike Pearson was the patriarch) of this insane, self destructive dogma that dangerous individuals and regimes can be “talked” into leaving us alone….and that disarmament is not an open invitation to attack by aggressive hostile interests. We all know in our hearts that Canada would not have enjoyed such a long term of peace had it not been under the US defense umbrella….time to pull our weight or invite well deserved contempt from other free nations.
A person, or a nation which cannot/will not defend themselves will be a slave to those who can.
Celestial junk, I am in complete agreement with you. I have always been a little fascinated in the fact that history has proven that all the big empires imploded and were destroyed right at the peak of their power and glory. Has history got a lesson for us all?
After decades of our nations leaders trying to push our armed forces into the background by reducing their budgets and making them do their work with the worst wore out junk for equipment, we have now entered a new era. I least I hope we have. What am I willing to do? I am willing to have more of my tax dollars spent on refitting our armed forces… and I am willing to never complain about these expenses… and I am willing to support of troops and any government( of any political stripe) with my full support. I feel that this will also improve our national pride and hopefully make us a people who are willing to stand up for our freedoms we enjoy. As a nation we have spent far too long ignoring our place in the world by putting our heads in the sand. This may mean we have to go to bat in foreign countries, and sometimes it will get messy. But it is absolutely essential. Canada has become a nation of political do gooders. Many feel that if they throw some money at a starving child in some foreign country, that the problem will go away and they will feel better. Of course, foreign aid is important, and it is often essential, but it does not end there. We as Canadians, cannot simply sit on our butts, on our comfy couches, and reach for our cheque books. Sometimes, we will have to help by sending our forces and help these people re-establish democracy.
Our political leaders have done a bang- up job of deluting our national thought on these matters by convincing our population that we are ” peace keepers” and we are far too small to fight the big fights. We may be too small to fight the real big fights but we certainly can assist in fighting the big fights. This is why this trip by Harper is so important. Do you remember the last time Canadians felt this good about something? Can you remember a trip made by a previous Prime Minister that was as memoriable and meaningful? We have entered a new era, and I am hopeful we I think many Canadians are so new to the thought that we may have a role in war, that they are not yet ready to support our role in a country like Afghanistan. I think we have all heard someone say… well, the Russians couldn’t beat them so how can we?
Canada was a much smaller country when WW2 broke out, yet our country played a key role in ended it. Our country is still considered as heros in some European countries. The time has come for us to redevelop our honour in the eyes if the world.
Our military has experience. It is small, but our troops are well trained…. and they have a well developed ability to think. This is because they have not had the luxury of just ordering a ” new one” every time something has broke down. They have had to think …and find a new way to do the job. We need to redevlop a new found pride in our armed forces. We are a country in desperate need of true heros.
Personally, I spent nine years in the Canadian Forces when I was younger. Since then, in 1991, I identified myself to the local recruiting centre should they have needed my services, and most recently I’ve spoken to a colleague in the military to let him know I’m willing to serve a month or so over in Kandahar should they need someone in my profession. A couple of my other colleagues have done the same and two have actually been on short term deployments. A month isn’t much, but that’s the whole point. If everyone’s willing to do a bit, a small amount of risk and discomfort gets us one helluva good life.
What can the media do? From Nealenews: National Post: A Prime Minister we can be Proud Of
WOW!!! Awesome editorial especially in light of the source. The world must surely be about to end!(lol)
Cjunk,
Good posting (I read your blog too). VDH is truly brilliant.
It’s so refreshing to see a comparison of CANADIAN culture to that of ancient Rome. Your typical Leftist (who truly believes he has a better grasp of history than VDH) would never dream of such a comparison. The only thought they are capable of? “The US is like ancient Rome, corrupt (because of conservatism and GWB) and will fall.” Never once thinking that Canada is lumped into that same ball of wax. The fruits of “critical thinking” (as defined by the Left).
wlyonmackenzie: count me in! A lot of people look on Switzerland as the ideal of peaceloving and stable democracies. Those same people don’t realize just how war-ready Switzerland is. I’ve been friends with a number of ex-change students from there, and all of them have had to serve; and they all supported the concept, as well as the discipline and “growing up” that goes into having to serve. Now William made a point that may have been missed, so I’ll make it loud and clear. The Swiss live with their military issue weapons at home, as long as they are qualified.
Imagine the gnashing of teeth and screaming, hair pulling, whining, and pouting from the liberal masses here… guns… assault weapons… in homes… in cities… in Canada!
Personally, as I’m too old to actively serve, I believe in giving a significant portion of my taxes to those serving and in supporting anyone who understands the concepts of balancing freedom and strength. I am humbled by the young people who are willing to give so much, especially to make the lives of others better.
Gramsci’s plans for you:
“…the role of western Marxist intellectuals was to create a ‘counter-hegemonic project’, that is, an alternative form of political and moral leadership.”
This form of leadership includes: feminism, political correctness, multiculturalism, queer studies, historical revisionism, & etc. The communist “movement”, after the fall of Soviet Russia, split into segments to push the agenda. The agenda remains: Crush Western Civilization; Build Utopia.
Left liberals pursue this agenda; left liberals and other nihilists are now allied with Islamist murderers to effect the goal of the crushing of the West. Their desired end result would be a global, totalitarian order which was the goal of Communism & Nazism, etc.
Intellectuals play a key role in the new “Utopia” as seen by Gramsci et al. More here:
HIST382 – The Treason of the Intellectuals: Power, Ethics, and …
Raymond Aron, THE OPIUM OF THE INTELLECTUALS Simone de Beauvoir, THE MANDARINS Julian Benda, THE TREASON OF THE INTELLECTUALS …
http://www.wesleyan.edu/course/hist382f.htm – 6k – +
Hegemony and the hidden persuaders
the power of un-common sense
George Clark (June 2002)
HEGEMONY in sociology, political science and international relations, is generally used to describe dominance or control rather than leadership. Thus ‘hegemonism’ describes the policies of states which control or bully those within their sphere of influence; ‘hegemonic control’ refers to a system of ethnic domination in which the political elite controls a subordinated ethnic community (or communities) in such a way that it is incapable of effective revolt; and ‘hegemonic party’ refers to a political party which is the only effective party in control of a particular society.
The widespread popularity of the concept of hegemony is the 1970s and 1980s derived from the western Marxist rehabilitation of the Prison Notebooks of the Italian Communist leader, Antonio Gramsci, who died at the hands of Mussolini’s Fascists.
Drawing on the work of Machiavelli and the elite theorist Pareto, Gramsci used the concept of hegemony to describe the way in which he believed the bourgeoisie established and maintains control even in a democratic system in which workers and peasants might make up an electoral majority. The dominance of the bourgeoisie was not based on their control of the coercive power of the state, but rather rested upon their ability to exercise moral and political leadership, and to win consent for their vision of what was possible and worthwhile.
In Gramsci’s thought, each successful political system requires the creation of an ‘historic bloc’, unified around an ‘hegemonic project’, in which the dominant class builds alliances beyond itself, and wins consent for its institutions and ideas. The appeal of this idea for western Marxists was twofold: it helped account for the failure of revolutionary Marxism in Western Europe, and it suggested that intellectuals played a key role in building hegemony for a historical bloc. By implication the role of western Marxist intellectuals was to create a ‘counter-hegemonic project’, that is, an alternative form of political and moral leadership. +
http://www.caledonia.org.uk/hegemony.htm
What are you willing to do?
I think a lot of Canadians are unaware that they could do something. Many think that joining the Armed Forces is tantamount to a lifetime of servitude to a totalitarian command structure, and are therefore repelled by the thought.
As a Reservist, I have found myself explaining Reserve service countless times to my civilian friends and acquaintances.
They are surprised that:
-Reservists can be between 17 and 54 years of age.
-Reserve service is completely voluntary, you can quit anytime.
-Reserve service pays, and pays better than most think.
-Reserve service does not mean a person is subject to call-up to a theatre of war.
-Reserve service carries many financial benefits for students and working people.
-Reserve service looks good on a resume.
-I can comment on blogs, run a business, have a family and home, and serve too. So…Will I see all of you down at my unit soon? Why not?
A wider education of the general public in this area may go a long way to solving our recruiting problems.
In todays fast-moving and dynamic world, a large and flexible Reserve should be best answer.
Remember, that’s what those Roman armies actually were…Citizen Soldiers!
10:36 AM
Is this like a daycare [producing better human beings]for adults?
NDP and Libs would surely get behind it then.
The posterboys for the NDP, Holland have national service.
It is lofty stuff “to serve your country”
In addition to internal failings of our societies to commit to a more robust effort towards preserving our own values, there are clear threats from outside as well. Published at lgf is an interview with a person described as a refugee claimant:
“Norway�s most controversial refugee, Mullah Krekar, told an Oslo newspaper on Monday that there�s a war going on between �the West� and Islam. He said he�s sure that Islam will win, and he also had praise for suspected terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.
�We�re the ones who will change you,� Krekar told Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet in his first interview since an uproar broke out over cartoons deemed offensive to Muslims.
�Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes,� Krekar said. �Every western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries are producing 3.5 children.
�By 2050, 30 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim.�
He claimed that �our way of thinking… will prove more powerful than yours.� He loosely defined �western thinking� as formed by the values held by leaders of western or non-islamic nations. Its �materialism, egoism and wildness� has altered Christianity, he claimed.
Krekar, who�s been supported by the Norwegian government since arriving as a refugee from northern Iraq in the early 1990s, now faces deportation after violating the terms of his refugee status and being deemed a threat to national security.
Krekar told Dagbladet that he favours Islamic rule where political and religious leaders are one and the same. One such leader he respects, he said, is Osama bin Laden. �Osama bin Laden is a good person,� Krekar said. He claimed Osama bin Laden is considered a terrorist simply because he lacks his own state.
�Those who say Osama bin Laden is a terrorist are themselves killing our women and children,� Krekar said.
Attempts to �spread democracy,� he claimed, are merely a ruse to wage war against Islam, adding that �the West destroyed the Taliban regime in Afghanistan� because �it feared the Islamic state.�”
Sadly, the policies of overly generous treatment of people like this seems to have produced exactly the reverse of the intended results. Seventeen years of government support to this SOB and his ilk seems to have brought, not gratitude, but a feeling of entitlement and the attitude that the west is weak. The “revenge of the cradle” seems to pose a true threat to the west.
The Neoconservative doctrine is all but finnished even within the political party that spawned dead. It was always braindead and moraly bankrupt. The only people still clinging to it are the party faithful who bought the spin in the first place.
The US isn’t going to be doing any large scale preemptive wars for a long time to come.
I don’t suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years. No I thought not.
Hail Big Brother
Re: Switerland
At one point it was the offical poilicy of the NDP to base our military on the swiss model. Circa 1984-85.
My question is, when the deluge of baby boomers retire starts (Year 2009), who will protect and dictate our country’s future?
The younger generation of course.
So let’s see what values they have…well if the Capitalist Piglet is any indication, we might have an issue. This isnt’ a debate on the cartoon or “freedom of speech” so stop that stream right here.
We can talk all we want about freedom but are we willing to uphold it by war?
This is about who will fill the shoes of the retiring people. Who will protect this country from the barbarians?
Being the government is full of liberal leftist airhead thinkers – that worries me, who will run this country when we become top heavy with age and medical needs?
Soylent Green may not be too far away…
Ah, yes. “Jose” appears…
Whose comments are like small odiferous piles, gently steaming on the highway…of Kate’s blog.
We see you, jose, and merely smile and step around you.
I don’t understand the advocacy for national military service. The use of conscripts usually leads to an expensive military organization with diluted capability. This is the case in most European countries – they spend a greater percentage of GDP on their militaries than Canada, but can’t deploy anywhere and have very poor readiness. A typical conscript serves 2 years, which really isn’t long enough to become competent in any profession. In the meantime, the resources of the true professionals are soaked up in babysitting the latest class of recruits who’ll be out the door right away. I understand the desire to instill some civic virtue into young Canadians, but I wouldn’t want to compromise the military to do it.
Mad Mike; you probably won’t see me if you’re in Saskatchewan, but I promise to check it out here. I have to confess I am clueless about the reserves. My mother was in the millitia and I can remember her going to Kingston for a couple of weeks when I was young.
I just came across a video via Alberta Blogs > Thems Fightin’ Words > Celstial Junk > Little green footballs – Feb 28/o6 from MEMRI TV – http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19460_A_Clash_Between_the_Middle_Ages_and_the_21st_Century&only. LGF says; “Arab American psychologist Wafa Sultan is a very brave lady, as she confronts a bearded cleric on Al Jazeera television and gives him a severe dose of righteous truth.”
She is indeed one very brave and well spoken Lady!!! It is women like her and the suffering of the Iranian/Canadian Journalist, Zahra Kazemi who inspire me. To think that the Ontatio Government for even one second considered allowing Sharia Law within Canadian Borders! That and the Liberal Government’s handling of Kazemi’s death. SHAME!
It simply amazes me how theres always an anon in the crowd ready to critique, yet never adding anything.
In fairness though, I’ll answer your question.
I serve my nation by educating children on the history of the nation, by holding the history my family has been part of as something to be learned from.
I wish more people would. Time and again I hear people say to me “well, I don’t really have a history, my family came here in 1945, or 1960, or 198o, or 1999”.
That is just the point, you do have a story, we all have a story, whether it’s us directly, or our parents, or grandparents, or for some of us our many great grandparents.
Canada is not a 7 eleven store that is located so you don’t have to walk so far for cigarettes. It’s a nation founded and capitalized upon by people who in one way or another could not live life in another country, be it because of oppression, poverty, war or what have you.
The end result of each is a tale. Although each tale has a different beginning, of seeking a better life for oneself and one’s family, they all have the same ending, Canada.
Children today are profoundly ignorant of yesterday, and I’m a true believer in the old adage “you can’t know where your going, unless you know where you’ve been”. By remembering the why, and how, of our arrival in this country each child understands that none of us has an inherit right to any of this. It is earned, and oft times paid for in blood.
I like to think that people like myself are a link to the foundations of Canada, that I hold some of the keys to remembering the people who created this nation, and that through that knowledge, I help people achieve even more.
When my family members come over to visit, they will sit in my living room, often not knowing that most everything in my house has a piece of Canada’s story behind it, spanning the last 4 centuries.
I love nothing better than when I get to pull out the family tree, and tell the children about the many, many people who they were descended from and related to, and the wars they fought, the lives they built, and the prices they paid to make their lives happen.
The furious details I pick out of my wifes fathers aging memory, as I struggle to put his story together. A story of a Ukranian boy, stolen from his homeland when he was but a lad of 13, forced into slave labor on a German farm, witness to atrocities, and then at the age of 18 brave enough to cross an entire continent and ocean to end up PeaceRiver, Alberta, where he settled, had a family, did an honest days work for the City of Edmonton for 35 years.
Her mother, whose family was Polish Nobility, and of her grandfather, who went from aristocracy to a cavalry facing insurmountable odds, to utter and total destruction, to a journey to freedom in Canada on a boat that shouldn’t have gotten here.
Thats at my house, what goes on in yours?
What tales would we find behind each persons front door. Canada is a mosiac built on the stories behind each of those doors, and the parents aren’t doing enough to let the second and third generation know what that tale is.
One doesn’t have to pick up a gun to serve the nation. One merely has to be willing to serve in some capacity.
The person who delivers your newspaper, the cashier at the gas bar. The teacher teaching your children, the people who work at your bank, the civil servants… we all play a part in one way or another, and we all do our bit even when we don’t realize it.
What we fail to understand or we allow ourselves to forget, is that we are privledged beyond the dreams and ambitions of roughly 4 billion people on this planet.
I contribute by playing witness to this nation, and by adding to it in every way that I can find to contribute.
Working as a lad on highrise buildings, educating myself, and starting companies and giving people jobs.
By pushing the boundries on technologies you are only now starting to enjoy. Things that you take for granted, that I’ve fought many a legal battle just to get into the country. I did that so that people like you Anon can enjoy and make living a little easier, even when larger interests didn’t want you to because it eroded their profits.
Just like others have done for me, which I take for granted too.
I create techonology that saves your taxpayer dollars, and makes your government more accountable to the public purse as my principle contribution to Canada. I create technologies that allow small business to become big business.
I’ve traveled the length and width of Canada, from ocean to ocean to ocean. I have had the pleasure of many hundreds, if not thousands of people taking the time to have coffee, or a beer, or just a chat with me, and tell me about themselves.
I did that for the education of it, so that when someone from another part of this nation says something that I don’t agree with, I can at least understand the “why” of their position. That way I don’t just ignorantly assume that my arguement is more valid than theirs, without at least having some glimpse of their side of the coin.
I like to be a part of, and to revel in, the greatest single nation in the world. A nation of compassion, and intelligence, one of charity and a thirst for understanding. One which is slow to anger, but undaunted when united, and doesn’t shrink in the face of adversity. Canada is the most diverse nation I’ve ever experienced, and I’m proud of it.
It’s also a nation which has lost it’s way, and needs to get back to the basics. We can’t help other nations unless we are willing to deal with our own backyard first, and we’ve been working damn hard to ignore our backyard for about 30 years.
I live a good life, one which I appreciate.
I appreciate it because I have had the displeasure and heartbreak of witnessing poverty, disease, and famine, both at home and in other nations. I was lucky, I could get on a plane and come home… those people I left behind didn’t have that option.
A Canadian can contribute a great deal by simply getting off their ass and excercising their most fundamental right… the right to vote. If I had my choice, it would be law that you had to show up on voting day.
It’s a spoiled, lethargic, and unappreciative peoples in a country when only 61% of them show up to do their duty. The municiple turnout in Calgary last election was like 40%.
Lord knows its a real bitch to go to a polling station and cast a ballot. The irony is that if they put mandatory military service on as a ballot issue, you can bet your ass the turnout would be the highest in 60 years.
These are the things I consider my responsiblity, and in my own way, I pass on a legacy that is hand in hand with how this nation came to be, and in line with where it’s supposed to go. At least that was what I was taught, at a time when the nation had a common vision.
Perhaps not much in the view of some, but something I feel comfortable with. When I die, I won’t regret my time here, and it won’t have been wasted.
So then Anon, those are my thoughts and ideas in regards to contributing to a nation…
What about you?
I would like to mention a school in Edmonton, specifically Vimy Ridge Academy.It is a public High School.When my son applied he met with the principal for an interview, he was asked to write a 100 word essay on the spot on “What it means to be a Canadian”The school has a Canadian Studies program, the halls are filed with Canadian military photos and artifacts.There is a uniform code with enough flexibilty that nobody can get too upset [the kids actually voted to retain the uniform code]I loved that my son attended there.I know that he is a better person for it.
Calgary now has a similar charter school called Juno Beach
FOr those who are interested, I am reposting the following:
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/home/index_e.aspx?bhcp=1
and the Reserves:
http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/reserve/index_e.aspx?bhcp=1
Cheers
JMH
No Jose I don’t give a shit about the 200 detainee’s in Gitmo… I’m more concerned about the 700000 First Nations members living in poverty.
Perhaps if you got your liberal head out of your ass, you’d be a bit more concerned about the general well being of people as a whole, and less about a few individuals, who, at the very least, chose their friends poorly… and are still eating better than people on Indian Reserves.
Jackwad
Ian, my nieces attend Vimy Ridge & they love it. They both went to Ottawa for Remembrance week, one’s a cadet & they are both in the pipe/drum band. It’s a great school.
�By 2050, 30 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim.�
Maybe higher.
I predict that France will have a Grand Mosque where the Louve once stood by 2050 with all of those offensive nudes burned. All of the vineyards burned and the Notre Dame leveled.
When your culture, values and history become meaningless, as the Left elites(Yale has a Taliban scholarship student as we speak) have gutted them over decades, Islam is and will continue to gather strength.
We are very luck we are separated by a large body of water. I’m not so sure that Americans and Canadians are going to save Europe again or care too.
I myself served 9 years in the military. I served in the first gulf war along with about 3000 others. What we did there was important and i know we did alot of good for alot of people.
do i think everyone should have to serve in the military…. no
There are many ways to support our troops and our country.
First thing is stop this nonsense about having some sort of debate about being overseas. It is too late for that. To even question it now is to say that the soldiers that died did so for no good reason.
Second learn Canadian history. We were not always a weak country. We held a place of honour in the world which thousands died for. To learn of our history can only make you proud.
Third Support our troops.Always.
When i was overseas i was sent a letter from a nine year old girl who told me how proud she was of me. I still have that letter. It meant so much to hear from a young person from Canada while in the middle of the dessert.
Everyone should pick up a pen and write to these brave men and women many who arent much more than kids themselves and tell them how proud you are and thank them for what they are doing for you.
Jose said: “I don’t suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years. No I thought not.”
Actually Josie, I would’ve prefered to release the gtmo boys right away, to the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. No mess, no fuss, just a smear on the desert. A more fitting end; the Americans were far to kind.
I live 30 miles from the US border. After my last posting, I had to run into town. I thought it was quite fitting that I followed a Montana SUV with the” Support our Troops” sticker proudly placed on the back of the vehicle.( the yellow ribbon intertwined with the American flag)
I wondered if we as Canadians were coming to a place where we would proudly place the Canadian version of a similar sticker on our vehicles. I certainly hope so. I think many Canadians have made jokes about our armed forces for far too long. I have heard more people actually proclaim some real pride in our forces in the past few days, and most of it has occurred since our PM visited the troops in the field. I think if it would have been possible for Harper to go to Afghanistan prior to the election, he would have a resounding majority in the H of C today.
Maybe the time has come for Canadians to stand up to be counted. Maybe it is time for a “Support our Canadian Troops” sticker. i think it might even add to our Canadian unity and hopefully pull this country a little closer together
Dave: Thanks Dave! I think that many of us don’t realize how much a simple letter of appreciation can do. My son’s heading into basic, and I know what you mean when you say that many are very young themselves. We ask the best of our youngest; so I suppose the least we could do is send a note of appreciation.
Well said William. However, I pondered over the mandatory service part of your earlier post. Once you start making others fight your battles, freedom is no longer freedom.
I agree about giving the wasted youth a meaningful existance. What would it take that would make a person willing to serve? I think it comes down to giving youth choices for service. It has to be enticing.
I don’t suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years.
Worried? Nah. Not one tear shed.
When you are captured on the battlefield as an non-uniformed combatant, the Geneva Conventions don’t apply to you. Under International Law, you can be executed after the most minimal due process in the field.
Just guessing that they left with all of their fingernails, one eye not poked out of their heads and their teeth in their mouths, it was Club Med compared to the alternative….and probably the best chow they’ve had in years.
I’ve met a few people from Germany who had nothing bad to say about their mandatory “Civil Service.” I suppose it wouldn’t be a bad idea, though I’ll have to look into it more to see how effective it is; George raised some doubts in my mind.
And to the person who mentioned using his/her guns if we’re invaded, Venezuela is way ahead of us on that one!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4777972.stm
Well, I hadn’t meant mandatory service as in perpetually sending our children off to war.
There’s peace keeping, humanitarian deployments, and no end of roads to build here at home. Not to mention infrastructure up north, on reserves, rural needs like dams, dikes, canals.
So I don’t think war is necessarily the end result of mandatory service.
We could have mandatory forest Fire brigades, or programs such as kitivamik which are broader and mandatory.
I’d personally love to see a Canadian made Peace Corps. Let the little buggers travel see the world, dig irrigation ditches, help farmers, build schools, hospitals… etc.
Any literate 18 year old is pretty qualified to teach english and math and social studies to children under 12.
So I think it is more about giving the youth a mission. One which isn’t about avoiding school or responsibility, but perhaps more about appreciating the fact that they have access to school, good jobs, and that responsibility is a privilege.
Hell, you’ll never say no to a meal after a month or two in a third world country, nor will you be picky about what you eat.
Although it still amazes me how many different ways there are to eat chicken.
I think in the end, we need to focus on ways to broaden the minds of the youth of Canada. They are spoiled, even the good kids are without knowing it. These kids need to see more than California’s Disneyland, or the beaches of Mexico.
The world is a large and violent place, with little forgiveness for naivete.
While I don’t like to remember it, seeing people living in cardboard box’s, dead on the street from malnutrition, or malaria… it reminds you very quickly, and with no uncertainty, that there but for the grace of god…
“I don’t suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years.”
Yeah right…utter torture for four years…below are a couple of quotes from these poor, poor souls (who by the way, on average, gained 13 lbs. in body weight during their “torture”…
“However, for some curious reason, the Indy doesn’t see fit to mention the most interesting aspect of the testimony of this individual, one Abdul Hakim Bukhary (set 3, page 60). Perhaps it doesn’t fit the picture of Guantanamo that the likes of Mr. Sutcliffe and his employers (whether at the BBC or the Indy) wish to convey:
“Prisoners here are in paradise. American people are very good. Really. They give us three meals, juice, fruit and everything! My God! Here they [i.e. the Arab detainees] bother me everyday, every time. Now about 30 months to this day, they bother me. They call me a hypocrite. They call me a spy. You have to say, ‘thank God!’ I thank you for America! If you are in a Taliban prison, they do not treat you well. Here we are in paradise. It is 100% paradise. Yes, really. Thank you!”
Another admitted Taliban fighter, Mohammed Yacob, shares Mr. Bukhary’s positive feelings towards his captors (set 2, page 55):
“I’m very happy with the Americans. I don’t blame the Americans for capturing me. I blame someone who reported me; I got captured because of him.”
Next installment, a graphic account of the actual torture admistered to yet another poor soul…
Re: mandatory civil service
I believe that by offering(or sentencing)our troublesome youth to serve 2 yrs+ in our military would solve a host of problems.
1.They’re off the streets for a few years,something our current system can’t manage.
2.Will learn many positives in serving that they are probably lacking in spades(respect,teamwork,etc).
3.Would probably top up our ranks as much as presently needed.
When it comes to the rest of our youth,give them a chance.If required to defend our nation I’m sure they would come forward and make us as proud as previous generations have.
“I don’t suppose any of you personal liberty types are worried that 200 innocent people have been released from Gtmo after being tortured for four years.”
Well okay, Jose, in the interest of balance, here are more transcrpts that outline the actual torture (to those who have already seen it, apologies for the redundancy…
Over at lgf are descriptions/links to some statements outlining the unimaginable horrors of the torture treatment to which detainees are subjected, including one poor soul’s description of the despicable unhumanities dealt to him (Caution: graphic content). Gee, no wonder they want to decapitate us all:
“Finally, and in all honesty, it’s my duty to add that another former detainee, Feroz Abbasi, is not nearly as happy with the treatment that he received. In lengthy handwritten statements, included with the newly-released documents, Mr. Abbasi – who “left Britain to either join the Taliban or fight for Allah in [Indian-occupied] Kashmir”, being driven by “pure hate” for Americans – details the extent of the torture to which he was subjected.
The list of abuses (set 5, page 14) makes for unpleasant reading, to say the least – but the whole thing must be included, for the sake of completeness.
During his time in Guantanamo, Mr. Abbasi (writing in the third person) alleges that he was:
subject to [unspecified] “mental stress and pressure”
“willfully misdirected … to pray north”
deprived of “comfort items”
subjected to an [apparently failed] “attempt to withdraw Qur’an”
able to hear two guards having sex, while
they “assumed he was asleep”
distracted from his prayer by the “sharp intake of breath” of a female MP who’d been “sexually fondled”.
offered a plate of pork
the object of a conspiracy “to keep detainee ignorant of detainee’s allotted Tuesday recreation”
subjected to a “partially successful” attempt to administer injections “under the guise of immunisation”, designed to “unhinge detainee’s mental and emotional stability”
While all of these acts are undeniably horrifying, being on a par with the worst excesses of Torquemada, even their totality pales in comparison with the most extreme of the tortures to which Mr. Abbasi was subjected.
Of course, countless abuses have been committed against war prisoners throughout the ages – no one denies that. But, while not downplaying their suffering, it must be admitted that even the most unfortunate of these victims can only breathe a sigh of relief that he was not subject to what Mr. Abbasi was forced to endure when he:
had his peanut butter eaten by a guard “right in front of him”.”
O the horror…O the humanity…
(note to self: always avoid coming between a stone-age Islamist barbarian and his peanut butter)
Needlemeyer “Actually Josie, I would’ve prefered to release the gtmo boys right away, to the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. No mess, no fuss, just a smear on the desert. A more fitting end; the Americans were far to kind.”
You’re under the mistaken impression that these people are somehow involved with the Taliban or Al Qaeda. American military and intelligence officials have come to the conclusion that they are not.
Only 5% of the Gitmo detainees were taken by the Americans in combat. The rest were handed in by Afghanis and Pakistanis in exchange for substantial rewards. The majority of these people have no ties to radical islam. The americans got played for suckers basicaly.
One of the detainees is a political satirist who lampooned radical clerics. They handed him over to the americans out of revenge.
Its time for the right to wake up and smell the coffee.
William-
I didn’t know that my position against torture would lead to First Nations people starving. Please explain your logic and perhaps I’ll reconsider my views.
A voluntary military service is usually the best, as people are there for a reason.
Hauling people off the street, with drug abuse or mental problems, will likely lead to explosive consequences.
Remember the guy who sprayed lead across the Quebec Assembly?
If you are asking people to potentially lay down their life for their country; then at the very least it is a useful precondition to actually believe in the worth of the country and its missions whether at home or abroad.
PM Stephen Harper’s visit to Afghanistan has done much to remedy the public/military disconnect fostered under the Liberals most recent attack ad election drivel.
It is not the job of the government to abuse members of the military by making them out to be little better than “goon squads” marauding “In your cities, In Canada”.
The mindless criticism by the lefty press and media posturing completely undercuts the outrage felt by those who are “taking a bullet on behalf of the nation.”
Prime Minister Stephen Harper is crack on, when he suggested that the military need our support; not another round of abuse, navel gazing.
The Liberals made the decision to send troops to Afghanistan; now you simply follow through. FULL STOP, PERIOD. The time for debate has passed. Monday morning quarterbacking, while one’s troops are in theatre, on the field receiving incoming RPGs and assorted IEDs hardly shows committment to their sacrifice. It shows that those that hold such opinions are deficient in their understanding of the notion of honour, bravery, courage and discipline while under fire.
In short, they don’t understand simple civics and the concept of nationhood.
Your military is the LAST line in your nation; if they fail there is no nation. Calgacus said it best when the legions returned to Briton:
(Insert Taliban for Romans and the quote is up to date)
��.beyond us lies no nation, nothing but waves and rocks and the Romans, more deadly still than they, for you find in them an arrogance which no reasonable submission can elude. Brigands of the world, they have exhausted the land by their indiscriminate plunder and now they ransack the sea. The wealth of an enemy excites their cupidity, his poverty their lust of power. East and West have failed to glut their maw. They are unique in being as violently tempted to attack the poor as the wealthy. Robbery, butchery, rapine, with false names they call Empire; and they make a wilderness and call it peace.�
I have to admit this idea of ‘doing my part’ made me think of how I would feel 6 or 12 months from now if, for instance, the Liberals got back in with Martin or someone like him as leader. Would I be as ready and willing to serve then? Sorry if that makes me sound horrible, I want to assure everyone I do live up to my committments to do my duty, but I wouldn’t be honest if I didn’t admit the thought occured to me.
Anyways, that’s when it occured to me, as someone who’s felt left out as a Canadian for as long as I can remember, that the TRUE PATRIOTS are the men and women, and their families, who are in Afghanistan right now ( even before Harper became P.M.). They do their duty, put their lives on the line, no matter what is being said and done at home, who is leading the Country or whether or not they are appreciated. Just a thought.
Thankyou to all the members of our armed forces, past and present, their families and friends. Please extend my gratitude and rest assured this is one Canadian that get’s it.
I think the same can be said for all of our emergency/health services who do likewise, day after day, no matter the conditions, amid bitching, internal investigations and contract negotiations. Thankyou again.
The majority of these people have no ties to radical islam.
You have a link to that fact or do we have to fact-check your a$$?
You throw a lot of garbage out, Jose, none of it linked to a reliable source. Try linking to reliable sources and not some whacked out lefty site or paper.
(note to self: always avoid coming between a stone-age Islamist barbarian and his peanut butter)……..or Saddam and his Doritos.
jose it looks like you use aljazeera.com as your news source. If not you write very simular to their slanted twisted B.S. news.
And in the real news– “About 10 former detainees have rejoined the fight against US forces after being released from a US military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba in the belief they no longer posed a threat, Pentagon officials said on Friday.
Some have been recaptured, others reportedly killed and an unknown number remain at large, the officials said.” this does not count the 4 captured in Russia where they are finding out what a real gulag is like.
Alan, I just noticed that the number of detainees you cite in your comment exactly matches the statistic supplied by Jose for detainees taken in combat.
That being said, I will read the article (and more) that contains the information you present. A link would be nice though.
Jose, those people in Gitmo are there by the actions and choices they made, or the actions and choices of people they knew. Either way, the US picked them up because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, by their own choice.
The Liberal says what about the little guy, while blithly fucking over the mass’ to ensure the little guy is looked after.
You would have the audacity to worry about a few, a very few, who may or may not be involved in the deaths of thousands. You would admonish those who write here over the very same. You’d have us feel guilt over these few criminals, while thousands of people in your own nation are persecuted, abandoned, and basically left in third world conditions… in the middle of your own country.
By liberal governments who repeatedly promised to help them.
Where are your priorities best placed, on those who most likely do belong where they are, or on those who truly need yours and mine attention.
No one asked those fuckers in Gitmo to be involved in terrorism, no one asked them to attack the US. Over 3000 people died in the twin towers, and you worry about the treatment of 200 people who would cheerfully gut you like a fish.
Get a life man. There will always be Gitmo’s, and there will always be poor people. We can’t solve it all, but we should be able to solve that which occurs in our backyard,and if we spent more time looking to our own, we’d have more time to look after the few.
Instead you chose to task people over what may or may not be abuses by another nation, not our own.
Wow. Thanks for all of the great feedback guys, especially from the veterns.
“When it comes to the rest of our youth,give them a chance.If required to defend our nation I’m sure they would come forward and make us as proud as previous generations have.”
The main thesis of my piece was that there probably is a point where those needed DON’T come forward. As appealling as the modern military is in many ways, who wants to give up the absolutely supreme and unmatached comforts of our post-modern civilization do go sit in a hole somewhere and get shot at?
The Romans, some of histories most vicious, determined, and brilliant warriors reached that point where they were unwilling to fight. I would never assume that our civilization couldn’t reach that point. And I would also never assume that our civilization will remain intact and without serious threats.
On the modern day militia, vis a vis Switzland, its a nice idea, with one major drawback. A key factor in the supreme fighting abilities of modern day western armies is that their members are volunteers. The professional volunteer army gives you the most dedicated and toughest soldiers possible. Constricpts and militia’s don’t carry that vital edge.
“Jose, those people in Gitmo are there by the actions and choices they made, or the actions and choices of people they knew. Either way, the US picked them up because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, by their own choice.”
William Macdonell, I think you are two different people!Sometimes you make sense and sometimes you say things that… are really weird. By the logic of that statement, if you get killed by a drunk driver it is your own fault.
Go ahead, have another go at that.
Agreed that Aboriginal issues should be a primary concern for right-minded Canadians.