The Canadian Taxpayers Federation calls it a an ‘election herring‘. I call it a week’s worth of groceries for my family, or two and a half weeks worth of fuel for our vehicles. And I will spend it happily.
Note to the Conservatives: This is why the Liberals win elections and you don’t. They’re just better at connecting with Joe Canadian than you are. Run that around your noodle a few times.
In other news, you’re running out of time to put up your nominations for the Small Dead Blog Awards — I’ll be starting the voting early Saturday morning (probably).
Too bad it will not go to pay down the debt.
I hate thinking my children will pay for my lifestyle.
Will people in jail get the money?
Too easy to counter.
The liberals say they want to give back some of the money they took to some Canadians. We just want to stop the excessive taxing at the pumps on all canadians.
“Will people in jail get the money?”
Probably, and here’s an even worse thought: David Dingwall will get a cheque too.
As I just mentioned in a previous post, Sean, this is absolutely a “red herring” from the “red mafia”. Paying a dividend on “larger than expected” surpluses? The expectation is up to them and therefore, so is the dividend, right?
Need more votes for a looming election? Lower the projection and buy votes from across the country.
No elections in the near future? Raise your projection to eliminate the dividend and, instead, pay the excess funds to the people who will funnel it back in time to buy the next election.
Does this sound cynical and bitter? Good
“We just want to stop the excessive taxing at the pumps on all canadians.”
Just make sure you call it anything but a tax cut. Call it ’empowering the poor’ — call it something else so long as it sounds progressive and squishy.
Anyhow, this is a stroke of brilliance on the part of the Libs. People will want their cheques, and this gives the Libs carte blanche to keep right on going with their excessive taxation and fishy bookkeeping that produces these surpluses.
It’s dirty, but it’ll work.
None of us are going to see a single dime of any of this money.
“None of us are going to see a single dime of any of this money.”
Sure we will — this coming year because we have an election on the way. After that, probably not until another election comes along. Sure they’re buying us, but that seems to work in this country.
Sean:
If the Conservatives were to issue a platform statement that they were going to be rebating the same amount of dollars (prior to the Liberals doing it) they would be accussed of trying to buy votes. That would be followed up by editorials both in print and electronic stating that “this kind of transparent vote buying does not fool the average Canadian and that is why the Liberals remain in power. They would never be so foolish as to attempt such a manouver. Clearly this shows that the Conservatives are too inexperienced to run government.”
Liberals keep winning elections for one reason and one reason only. Lack of editorial balance or objectivity in the national media, and a lack of solid investigative journalism into matters Liberal.
I don’t think this fools any more people in the East than it does the West. They just pretend it does so that they can go on electing Liberals, which keeps their bread buttered just fine, to hell with what it means for the future of the country.
Your justification that this is why Liberals win elections is a great example of this.
Think about the alternatives — they could go back to buying people with government programmes. This way is definitely the lesser of those evils.
I agree with Sean; brilliant tactic.
As much as people have disagreed with me, I still believe the CPC has blown yet another chance to one-up the Liberals by not stepping to a mic and saying they were prepared to ELIMINATE the excise tax on gasoline.
When gasoline hit it’s Labour Day highs, that is exactly what the party should have done.
Now the Libs have something out the door that is gonna make ANY talk about tax breaks seem reactionary.
A thief takes half your money. Upon reflection he decides he took more than he needed. Of the surplus, as determined solely at his discretion, he promises to give back one third, buy shit for his friends with a third and pay off his credit card debt with the other third. Thanks a lot, buddy.
Ward said: “Liberals keep winning elections for one reason and one reason only. Lack of editorial balance or objectivity in the national media, and a lack of solid investigative journalism into matters Liberal.”
I guess you mean other than things like, um, Adscam and Dingwall which were both broken by the Globe, and the constant berating over spending habits, indecision, etc.
TB
Cerberus
WE need a change of government,if, for nothing else, just to make the change.
Look. It’s like changing the oil in your car. If you leave the old stuff there long enough, the motor starts to break down. Don’t you all think it’s time this country got an oil change before it’s motor, the taxpayer, breaks down?
As Occam has outlined – what we have is a thief who has stolen our money and gives 1/3 back, and we are grateful????!! We are supposed to say that it will buy groceries and gas…but..heck, if the taxes weren’t so high and hadn’t taken all that money from us..we’d be able to buy those broceries, gas and more, and for more weeks. I’m stunned why you are grateful when the thief returns part. And – is doing it only as a bribe.
The Liberals are expecting and planning a spring election. Sooooo…this returning ‘here’s a bit of what I stole’..is an election tactic.
The thing to remember about the Liberals is they have only ONE agenda. Power. Not Canada, not the people. Their own agenda. Power. Anything and everything they do – is focused to retain that power. There is no other reality.
The money is ours; it is taxpayer money, and what I think many are missing is that this is showing how the Liberals treat our money as their private bank. The reason they have the money is because they took it from us; Canadaians are heavily, seriously, overtaxed. That’s why Canadians don’t themselves develop our own major investment industries but piggyback on the US – and increasingly, on China and India to do the heavy-duty investing for us. We’ll work in their factories, labs and franchises; because our gov’t has so taxed us that we can’t afford to enage in primary investment.
And we are supposed to be grateful? Also- I don’t get why one can expect the CPC to offer similar suggestions. It is the Liberals who are in power; they alone have access to the bank which holds all our money; they alone make the decisions on how to spend our money. We don’t; neither does the CPC.
And finally, it is unethical to steal and return that money only as a bribe. The CPC wouldn’t do that. They have already called for gas relief and stopping taxation..but remember, their voices are not heard in the House. The Liberals never, ever, ever, ever, answer any questions. They just pontificate about how great they are. There are no opposition days permitted by the Liberals to introduce anything or confront or dissent.
This enormous power that the governing party has, with its control over the money, and its huge patronage powers, means that it’s almost impossible to turf them out.
I don’t like being bought with my own money. There’s something smarmy about that.
I’ve read that paper it’s got to be the most left leaning, I’m gonna get a job as the Consul-general in New York the Lib’s can’t do anything wrong rag I have ever seen in my life.
I’m not a stupid man and I know propaganda when I see it. That paper is disgusting. If thats your Idea of objective journalism then all I can say is your one sad dude.
ET has it right. There is something smarmy about being bought with your own money. There’s something smary about being bought ,period. How come more people don’t care about that? Try explaining to Eastern Canadians that living six months of the year on EI isn’t being bought. They respond with, “I pay my EI premiums”. OK. But if this program was with a private insurance company and you put in a claim EVERY six months, would you be able to afford the premiums? NO! but because it’s the government, those people have made it a way of life and the Liberals tell them they are entitled to it. It’s another form of prostitution. Screw the working taxpayer to pay for Liberal votes. Know what’s even sadder?
It’s never gonna change!
Shhh?-On! wrote:
“This is why the Liberals win elections and you don’t. They’re just better at connecting with Joe Canadian than you are. Run that around your noodle a few times.”
It’s been said repeatedly, but it bears repeating – if the CPC’s only path to electoral success is to be as good or better at the Lieberals sleazy, dishonest tactics as the Lieberals, they are doomed to eternal opposition – absolutely nobody can out-sleaze Little Paul and his band. And even if you could, is the party that succeeds really who you want governing the country? And if that’s the only way to federal power, isn’t the better use of our time and energies the abandonment of the pathetic excuse of a nation such a reality would unequivocably establish?
“A thief takes half your money.”
It’s horrid. I’m not denying it. What’s even weirder, is that the tax surplus money I’m allegedly getting back isn’t my money. Thanks to the layoff earlier this year and my business expenses, I’ll get back every single penny I paid in taxes for 2005. This means that my ‘tax surplus’ cheque is someone else’s money. I’m ashamed to admit it, but it probably won’t stop me from cashing the cheque if it were to show up tomorrow as our finances are not all they could be.
So the Libs are stealing money from one group to buy the votes of another group — that’s nothing new. And Canadians seem to tolerate it and lick it.
Of course, theft is becoming a rather casual pastime in a country where a good chunk of the population is busy downloading ‘free’ music, movies, and software off the Net. No wonder the Libs feel comfortable encouraging more of it.
The worst thing about the Libs, speaking for myself at least, is not their corruption, but the fact that their corruption seems to mirror so much of what the rest of Canada is doing. 🙁
“And if that’s the only way to federal power, isn’t the better use of our time and energies the abandonment of the pathetic excuse of a nation such a reality would unequivocably establish?”
This is exactly why I purchased a membership in the SPA. I’m going to try and find a bit extra to donate as well, once the finances stabilize.
unless you breed like rabbits and have no job [i.e. mentally ill] or are over 65 and indigent [and registered as indigent] you won’t get a wiff of this latest Orwellian slight of hand. So wake up and see it for the election herring it is! Liberal apologists, media suck ups, and opposition bashers who think the Liberals give a single solitary crap about them and their well-being make me puke becasue you have no clue.
Marc Lalonde re NEP “Our proposal [rape of Alberta… rape of power…rape of lives – old and hard working alike] was to inrease Ottawa’s share appreciably, so that the share of the producing provinces [2 out of 10!!!] would decline significantly [for control!!]”
8 out of 10 … 5 out of 10… 2 out of 10… soon to be 1 out of 10… Liberals suck! Sean… send your entire paycheck to Ottawa and let them decide what to do with it if you think they’re so smart.
Will I get interest on it as well? If not, I would rather they just did not tax me as much.
Well Sean, there comes a time where you stop thinking about what makes good politics and starting thinking about good policy.
So many people marvelled at how brilliant Chretien’s golf ball stunt was. They marvelled so hard and so long they forgot how absolutely offensive the whole thing was.
Previous posters have it right. This prosperity rebate will be manipulated by the liberals to buy votes. They will use this as justification for not lowering taxes.
Stop marvelling and start thinking critically.
I seem to remeber folks on here thinking that Ralphy was a true man of the people when he pulled the same stunt. Some of you are so predictably inconsistant it’s scary.
My opinion?
Ralph’s $400. Good politics. Shitty policy.
Martin’s $133.00? Good politics. Shitty policy.
If heaving a few bucks at the public so that we can see a spike in CDs and shoe sales is what passes for vision……
I used to work for the Taxpayers, and while I have some issues with them, I don’t have any at all with the research that used to come out of the old Manitoba Taxpayers Association. So, based on that; “churning” the process by which tax dollars are taken from taxpayers, costs subtracted and then they are returned (very poor definition but you get the idea)as services or monies. Don’t know what it is now, but it used to be that about 72 cents of every dollar taken in tax was churned by the system. Joe taxpayer got about 18 cents on the dollar in returned services etc. The rest got swallowed. So how much does Mr. Martin et all have to collect to graciously give us back some of our money these days? Here’s another thought. Again, don’t know what today’s numbers would look like, but the MTA used to estimate that, when all levels of geovernment were considered, you could get better services on about 40% of the then current tax take by changing the incentives in the system and changing how the services are delivered. Note: more services, less taxes. So lets be generous to gov. Say you paid 60% of what you now pay in taxes (not 40%). Would you still need the handout?
Don; at least in Alberta EVERYONE will get an EQUAL amount…[even the lowly taxpayer]… even people whose lives don’t depend on voting Liberal for handouts… that at least deserves a fraction of praise. I can’t believe all of this fawing MSM press for the libs over a paltry 33 cents per day for the feeble… such transparent propoganda with such cost effectiveness is ironically galling… and genius of greed. don’t equate Ralph with the federal Libs on even his worst day much less on one of his more generous ones re this topic… because they are 2 very different things (see part at top re equality…)
Frankly, I think a tax cut on gas excise tax is a very bad idea. If you believe that the gas market is not perfectly competitive – it being hard to argue otherwise – and if you believe that Canadians will not curb their use of cars even in the face of high prices (which all the cars I see driving around more or less demonstrates), then there’s no reason to believe that a cut in the excise tax would do much more than lower the prices marginally and increase gas company profits measurably.
As for the Liberals, they may not be smarter than the Conservatives, but they start from a natural advantage, and they know when to buy votes.
Obviously we’ll take it.
But lets never lose sight of the fact that they fill their own corrupt pockets first and foremost. Lets not forget how much they waste on grants and subsidies to their buddies. Lets not forget the masses of waste. And wehen we think about all that they should cut and re-allocate to gas/income tax relief and debt reduction, this is but a pi$$ in the bucket.
Alberta’s and Ottawa’s plans are nothing more than another hidden equalization program. They are direct transfer of funds from citizens who pay taxes above the average rate, to citizens who don’t, without even integrating the program into our already generous pogey schemes.
Make the Rich Pay!, the losers ululate. Maybe some people should think a little bit about this short essay from Dr. Kamerschen, distinguished professor of economics at the University of Georgia:
“Let’s put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, 10 men go out for dinner. The bill for all 10 comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
“The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh $7. The eighth $12. The ninth $18. The 10th man (the richest) would pay $59.
“So, that’s what they decided to do. The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.” So now dinner for the 10 only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.
“So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share’?
“The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being PAID to eat their meal.
“So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
“And so: The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings). The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings). The 10th now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
“Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got $1 out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the 10th man and exclaimed, “But he got $10!” “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved $1, too. It’s unfair that he got 10 times more than me!” “That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!” The nine men surrounded the 10th and beat him up.
“The next night the 10th man didn’t show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
“And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore.”
Peter:
Gas taxes are not just derived at the pump. The government even taxes it’s own tax. this is amazing and yet you find virtue in this. An enormous portion of the tax starts at the well head only they call it royalties. The Libs tax oil every step of the way. Before the stuff comes out of the ground they gotta tax. It is amazing to me that someone would be in favor of more taxes or the maintenace of the status quo. These people are stealing from you. I can’t understand someone who finds that a virtue or condons such behavior. Apparently you do.
Jeff: If you think taxes are stealing, then we probably shouldn’t even start a conversation. BUt anyway, my point is that, as a public policy, reducing excise tax is not likely to reduce prices anytime soon. I am making a positive, not a normative statement.
Thanks Tony. Well said
Earlier suggestions was that the rebate was similiar to getting 1/3 of the original back.
Using rough figures an income of about $50,000 would have taxes in the neighbourhood of $20,000.
So $100 (rebate) /20,000 (total taxes paid)= about .5% (diddly squat)
Now thats how you buy votes, give people back a meaningless fraction of the total paid out.
The checks will only arrive if the surplus is over a certain amount. With the last minute spending spree this years surplus is magically down to 1.9 billion, sorry no checks this year. Whatever happened to the NDP budget that would take effect only if the surplus was over 2 billion dollars(?). Over the past 12 years the Liberals have squirreled away about 7 billion dollars into various ‘foundations'(which by the way are beyond the reach of the Auditor General) to make the surplus appear smaller than it actually was. “In 2002-03 – Ottawa estimated a $3-billion surplus that ended up at $9.1 billion” if the surplus is that much then obviously the taxpayers are being grossly overtaxed. The Liberals are good at making promises(do away with the GST, etc.)which fail to materialize. Given the Liberals past record of being able to cause the surplus to disappear down a black hole, I see no reason to believe they will not follow the same path. Of course Sean there will always be the gullible out there who truly believe they are going to get a bonus without realizing they are being bribed with their own tax dollars. Lie, steal, cheat, “This is why the Liberals win elections”
“Of course Sean there will always be the gullible out there who truly believe they are going to get a bonus without realizing they are being bribed with their own tax dollars.”
Y’know, you *may* want to read the comment thread first before adding your own remarks. I’m just sayin’…
Is taxation theft, Peter? Well, now, I do feel the common human emotion that says that if a starving man steals a loaf of bread, he’s not really culpable. And I understand that our governments do some good things with some of our taxes. I am a minarchist, not an anarchist.
The problems start to crop up when the state starts stealing our televisions to give them to people who aren’t starving, and stealing our good will and charity to give it to their cronies and henchmen.
In the latter cases, taxation is, indeed, theft via extortion by the protection racket known as the state.
“Taxman”, by the Beatles
Let me tell you how it will be,
There�s one for you, nineteen for me,
�Cos I�m the Taxman,
Yeah, I�m the Taxman.
Should five per cent appear too small,
Be thankful I don�t take it all,
�Cos I�m the Taxman,
Yeah, I�m the Taxman.
If you drive a car, I�ll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I�ll tax your seat,
If you get too cold, I�ll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I�ll tax your feet.
Taxman.
�Cos I�m the Taxman,
Yeah, I�m the Taxman.
Don�t ask me what I want it for
If you don�t want to pay some more
�Cos I�m the Taxman,
Yeah, I�m the Taxman.
Now my advice for those who die,
Declare the pennies on your eyes,
�Cos I�m the Taxman,
Yeah, I�m the Taxman.
And you�re working for no-one but me,
Taxman.
Right you are Tony!! I appreciate your post about the diners – this is EXACTLY what is happening in this country and Adscam martin and his ilk are getting nervous; how long can ‘they’ prop up GM and Ford Motor Cos., Magna etc. so their mawish minnions in Ont can continue to work for the new finance min s(buzzzz and jacko) dictated wage? Ont. MUST retain it’s affluence so the Libs can be re-elected, the vote buy off goes well beyond just buying the ‘I want my cheque’ nobodies, this murder of crows (black robbers) must also buy off some major companies or the latter will move out!! This is a MAJOR Hit and YES!! Alta is the target. The eastern minnions are drooling as we post.
(Meta-comment: for the record, that story about the diners was by Dr. Kamerschen, not me, as I mentioned at the end of my two paragraphs of introduction. I’m not sayin’ anyone’s said otherwise, I just don’t want anyone to accidentally give me credit for something I didn’t do.)
Anyone who voted for the Conservatives should opt out of the bonus and demand an opt out provision.
But, Steve, if I am allowed to opt out of the bonus (which, as an opt-out, would mean that I don’t have to pay the taxes used to implement the bonus programme either), then you will get less money, honey.
Steve, Why?
steve, personal taxes are a tiny portion of Alberta’s revenues. The bulk is royalties on oil (the stuff in the ground, not in your car). Alaska has been giving bonuses, from the same thing, for years. It’s very different from what PMPM & crew are proposing, which is returning OUR overtaxed dollars.
What’s your problem with it? You don’t live in AB?
Actually Candace, according to an article by Licia Corbella in the Sun the other day, Ottawa syphoned enough off Alberta in Equalization Payments, that the amount exceeds the royalties that Alberta receives on Oil and Gas. That means that Alberta and all its prosperity has little to do with Royalties, but all to do with the relatively good management of its tax base.
Hey, I never thought of that, Wayne. That means that if Albertans piss away more of their taxes, like Quebec does, then we won’t have to pay as much to the “poorer provinces”, and we’ll get to keep the baubles, bangles, and bling-bling, and they’ll be “poorer”.
Gosh, isn’t equalization wonderful?
Oh man, Wayne, it just gets better! This means that we can now justify the $40 million for a tarted-up “extension” to the beautiful minimalist Edmonton Art Gallery, since at least it will save Edmontonians a lot of time: instead of having to stop and actually go in to the EAG to see bad art, now we’ll be able to see bad art just by driving by. All while giving less money to Quebec. Really, you must admit, Canada is, if nothing else, amazing.
Come on – use your head. We’ll never see a thin dime from from the Liberal Party.
Oh they’ll say that they are going to send us cheques. Hell, they’ll say it right before an election. “But!” They’ll say, “You’ll only get the cheques if we win the election.” And then if they do win the election, we still won’t get the cheques. The budget surplus will evaporate, or we’ll have to wait until Gomery Report (Gomery? Who is Gomery? Remember him?) is published.
Liberal MP’s will never comment on it again, and if it is brought up by the opposition, it will be brushed off until any further question is redundant and it is clear to anyone paying attention that they will not do it, and in fact never did intend to do it. And then it will be quietly forgotten about forever.
You know it will. A sane person can’t even beginn to count the number of Liberal Party promises and scandals that have gone the same way.
Hello Conservatives: strongly promise lower taxes – a Flat Tax system, if you wish to be bold – and you will pick up huge votes in Ontario, guaranteed. The silent majority votes for lower taxes! God only knows why Harper et. al. are so quiet on this issue. Harper should be saying every day: we’ll cut income tax, cut corporate taxes, cut the gas tax, and stop throwing your money in the toilet. His position on the new Governor-General? “We’ll lower your taxes.” His position on immigration? “We’ll lower your taxes.” His position on gay marriage? “We’ll lower your taxes.”
You guys are too funny with your criticisms of the Liberal Government. There is no conspiracy at work here. Let me be clear: Canadians don’t want a conservative government. We see the wackos in charge of the US and think to ourselves “That doesn’t make any sense.” Every plank in the Conservative platform other than the ‘corruption’ red herring is totally abhorrent to Canadians everywhere. If the Conservative Party were a viable alternative philosophically, perhaps they’d be in power today. The simple fact is we in Canada don’t want idiots of the faith-based initiative running government. Religion has no place in politics.
Now on to the old cranks whining about taxes. Don’t you people have better things to do with your lives but complain? Our standard of living here in Canada is one of the greatest in the world, and our cities are consistently up there in rankings of livability. Our country is working. Government isn’t like ‘an oil change’. I’ve never heard of a more moronic analogy. They have the experience and knowledge; why replace them with no-nothing, morally reprensible weasels? We want to keep our ideologically liberal government in place; it’s what makes people happy and our country continue to prosper. There is nothing broken here.
Sean, Now that you admit to being a whore, all we have to establish is what is your price?
Of course the Liberals know how to win elections with brain-dead supporters like you as a supporter. We know an election is coming up real soon when they step in and make sure all the Pravda workers are back propagandizing at the CBC, and they get the cheque book out and buy off all the whores. Right?
The Cockeyed Optimist.
‘There are probably very few Canadian Socialists’.
Sean, your such a fool.
There are so many hoops to jump through YOU will not see a dime.
Horny Toad