Charles Moore in the Telegraph.
What strikes one again and again about the reaction of the public authorities, of commentators, of the media, is the terrible lethargy about studying what it is we are up against. We are dealing with an extreme interpretation of one of the great religions of the world.
We flap around, looking for moderates and giving them knighthoods, making placatory noises, putting bits of Islam on to the multi-faith menu in schools, banishing Bibles from hospital beds, trying to criminalise the expression of “religious hatred”, blaming George Bush and Tony Blair. But if we do not know the way the faith in question works, its history, its quarrels, its laws and demands, we will not have the faintest chance of distinguishing the true moderate from the fellow-traveller or of bearing down on the fanaticism.
If you look at the Koran, you will find many glorifications of violence. In Sura No 8, for example, God is quoted as saying: “I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers!” This punishment comes to them for having “defied God and His apostle”. It seems reasonable to ask Muslims what this sort of remark means in the modern world.
[…]
I have asked, for example, if the Muslim Council of Britain, the mainstream umbrella organisation in this country, will condemn the killing of British troops in Iraq. They will not do so in absolute terms. They prefer instead to condemn the war itself, which is by no means the same thing.
Take a case from the dramas on Thursday. One heartening tableau was of the Bishop of Stepney, Stephen Oliver, appearing with Mohammed Abdul Bari from the East London Mosque, both condemning the attacks. But if you look up Mohammed Abdul Bari, you find that he welcomed to the opening of the London Muslim Centre Sheikh Abdul Rahman al Sudais, the Saudi-government-appointed imam of the Grand Mosque in Mecca.
In Mecca two years ago, al Sudais described Jews as “scum of the earth”, “rats of the world” and “monkeys and pigs who should be annihilated”. Yet, criticise al Sudais, and Mohammed Abdul Bari leaps furiously to his defence.
As I write, I have beside me an article that appeared during our recent election campaign in Muslim Weekly. By Sheikh Dr Abdalqadir as-Sufi, it calls for the replacement of British parliamentary democracy with “a new civilisation based on the worship of Allah”, attacks the Conservatives for being “in the hands of an illegal Jewish immigrant from Romania” and speaks of the “near-demented judaic banking elite”.
These views are expressed by an educated Muslim in a Muslim publication. Are these Muslim views, non-Muslim views, anti-Muslim views?
Meanwhile, the BBC is sanitizing its reporting.
Hard questions – indeed!
As long as we live in a western democracy that claims tolerance and multiculturalism to be greater goods the media is forced to sanitize all reports. Islam has always been a religion bent on destroying all jews and all that is jewish. Even the most moderate muslim will articulate that thought. In any other world muslim leaders would be charged with hate crimes. My own impressions of muslim thought is that the zealots want to destroy all of us, the moderates only want to destroy the jews.
There’s an old yiddish saying, ‘The fish stinks from the head down.’ To understand Islam, one must understand it’s so-called prophet. By definition, Mohammed was a mass-murderer – in just one instance he ordered the beheading of some 600 Jewish men. He was a pedophile – his youngest wife was 9 years old. And he was a plagiarist, his message was ripped off and then customized from sources such as the Torah and apocryphal book of Enoch.
Anybody read Second Chronicles, beginning about verse 20 or so?
Vicious brutality in one’s Good Book is hardly limited to The Koran. For that matter, messages of peace and extolling the virtues of loving one’s neighbour aren’t copyrighted to The Bible.
It’s time again to play The Muslim Leader Drinking Game!
When the Self-Appointed Spokesman for the “Muslim Community” says “Islam does not condone terrorism”, take a drink.
Everytime he says the word “but”, a drink.
When he mentions Israel and Palestine, take a drink.
When he condemns a “backlash against Muslims” that hasn’t happened yet, drink the whole bottle.
Oh, and styptic:
Here’s the deal. For centuries, Jewish and Christian scholars have studied and analyzed the Bible. Maybe you’ve heard of the Talmud or the countless scholarly books Christians have written, teasing out the meanings of every book of the Bible, learning history, Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew to better understand context and original meanings. There is a tradition of debate and criticism that continues to this day. Violent messages in the Old Testament (which are tellingly mostly absent from the New) are seen in light of historical events.
There is no such tradition in Islam. The Koran is meant to be memorized or written out in one’s blood, not interpreted. It is printed in order from shortest chapter to longest, not in linear order, which doesn’t exactly make “context” easy to discern.
The Daily Telegraph
NOT
===
“Times of London”
I wonder what it’ll take to get the CBC to clue in
And to think that just yesterday I was giving Kudo’s to the BBC for finally calling a spade a spade…
The Western World will resist what is necessary until the bloodiest remedy is inevitable. Many now alive will soon be dead, and dullards of apologia, like “styptic”, will, despite their alleged shock, be, in a great way, responsible. We’re fighting two twisted and allied religions; Islamofacism and the Secular Left.
Thanks for the link.
I second Kathy Shaidle’s reply to styptic. I would also add that the Bible is accepted by Christians to be a collection of different genres of writing — history, allegory, proverbs, psalms, laws, advice, and so forth. Each work must be interpreted with reference to its genre; a described historical event is not necessarily set forth as an example of how God desires us to live, for instance.
By contrast, the Koran is taken by Moslems to be the word-for-word dictation of Allah and the only perfect revelation to mankind. Allah is Arab, or at least speaks Arabic, and every part of the Koran is taken to be a commandment binding for all time. So if it says “kill the infidels”, it’s not something that they discount as applying only to the seventh-century Arabian peninsula.
“I think that Tolkien says that some generations will be challenged. And if they do not rise to meet that challenge, they will lose their civilization.”
– John Rhys-Davies (from interview I recently posted about)
I agree with Mr. Rhys-Davies. Our challenge, however, stems both from forces that seek to destroy our civilization from within – by denigrating and subverting any contributions from ‘dead white guys’ for example – and from without, as in the case of radicalized Islam. ‘What is Islam?’ is the most important question we should be asking in regards to the latter.
Thanks Colin – will correct the error.
I like the bit about the media and politicos flapping their arms anfter each terror attack then , provide some hysterically inane solution like running about madly searching to find token, uncle Tom “moderate” Muslims to heap phony liberal honors upon and parade around as a tamed “house nigga”….at the same time placating Islamic intolerance by removing bibles from hospitals and prosecuting mostly Christian churches fro their “intolerance”….when I see this in my leadership at a time where we are at war, I think that leadership is actually aiding the enemy, ans as such must be treated with the same contempt.
Two thoughts:
1. “By contrast, the Koran is taken by Moslems to be the word-for-word dictation of Allah and the only perfect revelation to mankind. Allah is Arab, or at least speaks Arabic, and every part of the Koran is taken to be a commandment binding for all time.”
“By contrast,” ???
“From the Christian perspective, fundamentalist has traditionally referred to any follower of Christ who believes that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and who believes in its literal interpretation and fundamental teachings.” (The Oxford Dictionary of Christianity)
and 2. “There is no such tradition in Islam. The Koran is meant to be memorized or written out in one’s blood, not interpreted.”
I find it disheartening (but revealing) that you’re willing to dismiss out of hand the interpretation (and yes, that is the word) that Islamic scholars (and yes, there are such wise people) have put on The Koran for both the faithful, and for those in the larger non-Islamic world who are interested, since the eighth century.
Charity, love of one’s neighbour, fundamentalism, violence, brutality, extremism, and abhorrence of same in the case of the latter trio. Neither Islam nor Christianity holds a claim to exclusivity of, or exemption from, any of them.
Septic, er styptic, you must be Islamic, or a fundamentalist believer of spinesless, unprincipled, unmanly, multi-culti Leftist Islamo-bootlickers religion. Admit it, please. That way, if I come across you, I’ll make sure to ask Ahmed to sit beside you in the bus just before he sets off his splodydope belt (right after my bus stop).
9 words or phrases IN ADDITION TO "terrorist" that the BBC has decided need editorial finessing
"freedom" → "the soft tyranny of out-of-control consumerism" "insurgency" → "soccer hooligans" "Islamic fundamentalism" → "slightly miffed Muslims with a bone to pick"…
Doug…
No, I’m just not you.
But don’t let that stop you from leaping so far into the pool labelled “wrong”, you can’t see the mark left by your ass at the kiddy end.
(“Septic” instead of “Styptic”. Heee-yuk. When you get to three-syllable cleverness, try again. That’ll come next year, when they finally get you to try a reader written at a Grade Four level.)
Idiot.
Look up the etymology of the word “idiot”
I think you will see an apt description of your life. All alone.
Feminized PoMo socialist bootlick. Where’s Che and Fidel?
Neener-neener. (last word)
Sheila: You write “Islam has always been a religion bent on destroying all jews and all that is jewish.” That is not historically true, whatever the situation today. Jews were on the whole much better treated in the Caliphates of Cordoba and Baghdad (Abbasid), in Muslim Egypt, and in the Ottoman Empire, than they were in Christian Europe at the same times.
When the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492 “The most fortunate of the expelled Jews succeeded in escaping to [Ottoman] Turkey. Sultan Bajazet welcomed them warmly. ‘How can you call Ferdinand of Aragon a wise king,’ he was fond of asking, ‘the same Ferdinand who impoverished his own land and enriched ours?'”
That is from the Jewish Virtual Library:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/expulsion.html
And in fact ex-Spanish Jews in Salonika spoke a Spanish dialect, Ladino, until murdered by the Nazis.
We will only defeat the Islamic terrorists if we stick to the facts, and do not give them ammunition by making false statements that they can use to inflame other Muslims.
Mark
Ottawa
To follow on Charles Moore’s piece: Gamal Solaiman, Imam of the Ottawa Mosque, has a generally good letter, “Cowardly Acts”, condemning the London bombings in the Ottawa Citizen, July 9. Nonetheless he finds it necessary to write: “But we must find out the underlying reasons for their [the terrorists’] bent on this extra-judicial demeanour.” Once again the plea for understanding “root causes”–plus a strangely understated and convoluted description of mass murder. One wonders where the Imam’s heart really is.
Mark
Ottawa
Regarding the BBC and its phobia for the word “terrorist”: to think that in WW II occupied Europe listened to the BBC because of its truthfulness. Today they would refer to the Nazis as the “National Socialist Workers’ Party”, leaving out the “German” for fear of causing offence.
Mark
Ottawa
They would also leave out the words Socialist
and Workers for fear of upseting left wing opinion.
National Party; that’s about right. Then we can use it to stigmatize Conservatives and other patriotic people.
One reason the West, with its tolerance, liberalism, and secular democracy, is superior to other cultures is it has distanced itself from traditional Christianity, which, by definition, is intolerant & dogmatic.
In fact, most, perhaps all, religions are intolerant and condemn the sinner & the infidel.
One day, also the Muslim world will have its own enlightenment and evolve from the Middle Ages, just like Christianity once did.
Btw, the one common characteristic of all terrorists is that they are all collectivists (fascists, socialists, fundamentalists…) as opposed to individualists. I.e. kill people because the belong to or are associated with a certain group, regardless of the particulars of the individuals actually being killed.
With an individualist ideology, like classical liberalism or moderm libertarianism, one cannot become a terrorist.
Regards,
/Johan
I love these threads they always draw out the paper thin or phony morality of the left gawd how they love to preach….shouda been born behind a pulpit. Say I know why they hate the christian church so much…because they never gave this type of dylexic morality a pulpit to preach fro…that leaves only the errant political orthodoxies that’ll have ’em…frik now I think of it I never did see a lefty -libereal spook that wasn’t semonizing and preaching down to the soiled masses. meh 😉
Islam and Violence
The question is, does Islam promote terrorism? Now, I am not an expert on Islam, and I am not going to say that it does, however, should one take a look at the behavior of its followers, there is something wrong somewhere, something that leads many t…
“Unless we are much misled about the facts, the sound we heard yesterday was Mecca–that capital of ignorance and superstition that forbids the tread of the infidel–sending an impotent message to its free, expansive, ever-living opposite.”
– Colby Cosh 8 July 2005
Enough said.
Mossad willing to sacrifice some Jews
In this opinion piece, Daniel Finkelstein is angry that Mossad didn’t warn him prior to the London terrorist bombings. The ongoing conspiracy theory (I say ongoing because you hear it or something like it after every major terrorist strike) is that M…