I’ve been listening for weeks now as Liberals defend their party as though theft was simply a policy issue to debate on its merits – a small part of a larger, more important national picture, sometimes marketed as the Greater Good[tm].
These Liberals seem to genuinely believe that systematic dishonesty is just a point of disagreement for which a sensible compromise could be found, if only both sides would be civil.
“Compromise” is defined by Websters in this way:
“An amicable agreement between parties in controversy, to settle their differences by mutual concessions. “
Well, therein lies the rub. Conservatives aren’t wired the same way as you Liberals. As we are so often reminded, we tend to view the world in terms of “black and white”.
This Ayn Rand quote is illustrative of this uniquely conservative character flaw, the unreasonably rigid fixation on notions of right and wrong as though they are, you know – meaningful.
“In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit. In that transfusion of blood which drains the good to feed the evil, the compromiser is the transmitting rubber tube.”
Stupid woman. Rand should have known that so-called “poison” can be ingested safely if dosage remains within limits of toxicity. Lives are saved through chemotherapy every day by the very pharmaceuticals that would kill you instantly if administered in overdose. The grey area between safety and toxicity is scientific fact – a property of every chemical substance on earth, with the exception of agricultural pesticides, growth hormones and fertilizers.
Still, hard wired as the conservative that I am, I can’t help myself. I can’t quite resolve a middle ground between good and evil. While on some intellectual level I’m sure I know better – I cannot shake the belief that beaurocratic corruption is an institutional character fault so grave that it should disqualify those afflicted from any position of power. In the case of the Liberal Party of Canada, I believe the party should be deregistered. I know this is harsh, but that’s how I think. Black. White. Crime. Punishment.
It’s not as though the question of corruption remains in dispute. An announced $750,000 trust fund indicates that Mr. Martin’s Liberals have moved past denial and presumption of innocence, and have entered the plea bargain phase.
While I acknowledge this is progress of a sort, in the greater scope of events, it’s pretty clear that my outdated “conservative” definition of justice, a justice that includes punishment, will not be realized. Having admitted guilt, there will be no penalty outside of “community service”.
The Liberal Party will not only continue to exist, they shall continue to govern and enjoy the privilage of stealing from me for the greater good.
So, to my fellow moderate, mainstream, compromising Liberal Canadian citizens so tolerant of the mischievious ways of our political masters – today I concede.
You win. I lose. You are right. I was wrong. You were always right, and I was always wrong.
Having broken the shackles of black and white, I’m ready to venture into this brave new ethical world of “Grey” and work with you. I can’t say I understand it, but nonetheless – it’s time to adapt.
As my first step, as a show of good faith, I’ve arranged a compromise with you. We will find a middle ground between “honesty” and “dishonesty”, a happy litlle grey parking spot between “respect for property” and “systematic theft”.
In my previous life in the world of black and white, “fairness” would demand participation of two consenting negotiators to arrive at “mutual concession’. I’m glad we can dispense with that outdated notion.
I’m going to play by your rules. Just as I had no place at the table when you were conceding the fundamental honour and integrity of the political system I must live under, you’ll surely understand this compromise that I have chosen for you.
You get to keep your Liberal Party and then some – you may also keep your Liberal government in perpetuity.
Easy? Easy.
In exchange I am going to impose a similar system of institutionalized theft on you, but in a more streamlined version. (Some conservative habits die hard) .
While your political party is stealing my money to fund their own election campaigns and in turn, reward their supporters (which would be you and the others who vote for them), in my parallel system, we’ve cut out the middleman.
I’ve made a deal with your bank. They have agreed to allow me, at the time of my choosing, to dip into your personal account and take a few dollars when I need them. Or alternately, when I want them. It’s nothing to get worried about, because the amounts I take will be such a tiny percentage of the bank’s overall holdings.
I won’t be telling you when I’ll be accessing your account, how much I’m going to take or how I will spend it. (I negotiated that, too.)
Because this is a democracy, you will have the right to complain just as much as you wish – so long as you remain civil. No anger allowed, because I really am uncomfortable – distrustful really – of angry people. They scare me.
If the tone of your complaint meets with my approval, I will go back to the bank and we shall sit down and discuss your grievance. The process will be completely democratic. You may watch and you can comment, and you will even cast a vote. You, me and the banker all cast votes.
Majority rules.
Then, after the majority has ruled, I’ll admit that maybe I took some of your money, look you straight in the eye and tell you I’m very, very sorry about the mess and give you my solemn pledge – let me be very, very clear about this – not to steal from your personal account until next time.
Then, I’ll instruct your banker to increase your account fees. We shall then distribute the extra revenues to the bank accounts of your like-minded mainstream Liberal Canadian friends.
They, in turn, will remind you that we do not live in a world of black and white.
There you go again, complaining about the symptoms but doing nothing about the disease.
http://www.dailykos.com
http://www.dailykos.com – Note: positioned on the left.
LLL moonbat site with the apprentice mockpuppet.
Dailykos is the largest hatefest and tinfoil hat gathering. Fortunately they’re all talk, just like Libpuppet, who is also full of hate.
Rob, company’s here, so I can’t continue the fun with puppetgirl, have a good long weekend.
Kate for Senator! No wait, we can’t elect our Senators. You have to be some left wing windbag with a PHD in “The Victimology of Women” or something lame like that before Dithers would appoint you. So um, I don’t know, Kate for premier of Saskatchewan?
Kate,
You rock.
I had already been convinced by today’s Toronto Star that everything was Stephen Harper’s fault because he pressured Paul Martin into dirty sleezy bribes.
Now, you have sealed the deal. None of what is happening is wrong. It is all part of the normal ebb and flow of politics in Canada.
I am so relieved. I can now revert to my natural fetal position of voting Liberal.
Why was I so stupid to think I should consider voting for someone ethical like Stephen Harper?
I will never do something so foolish again.
Hey Cockpuppet, I thought you didn’t like angry people. After all, when Stephen Harper gets angry, it’s “SCARY”. Anyone dumb enough to think that compassion can come from a book is obviously too stupid to appreciate the finer points of a political debate, so why don’t you pull your foot out of your mouth and walk out while you’re ahead.
“I have plenty of books on compassion and fraternity, care to read one?”
That’s the difference between us Conservative/Libertarian types, and socialist ass clowns like yourself. We don’t need to read books to know what compassion is. Only a socialist could be dumb enough to believe that reading a book about compassion could make them more compassionate. That’s because in order to be “compassionate” in the socialist/secular humanist sense, you must first learn the appropriate language, the mindless platitudes, the braindead buzzwords, the childish slogans, and all the other politically correct boilerplate nonsense. Only then can you claim to be truly “compassionate”.
Now go attend a demonstration somewhere, little man.
Perhaps Mockpuppet is correct, perhaps honesty and honor is alien to canadian politics. It could very well be that all virtues should only be treated as a mask, that indeed all civil servants should be distrusted, even the RCMP upper officers, and certain up and comers in the lower ranks. As in the quote,
“First they sneak into federal politics on the coattails of a discredited conservative party.”
From one perspective, moonbat Mockpuppet is correct, from another perspective they boldly strode into federal politics picking up the battered, innocent casualies of a discredited and formerly corrupt conservatives. I suppose it all depends upon your level of cynicism, but again you are correct in stating that vigilance and cynicism are neccesary here.
“Then they fail to get a national mandate even in the face of obvious massive corruption scandals.”
Again this could be perceived as you have so poetically as a flaw in the conservatives policy and platform, or it could be indicative of the very mass, volume, and complete pervasiveness this corruption has spread to. As well you could interpret this as indicative of the apathy that allowed this corruption to spread in the first place. But who am I to disabuse you of your warm and cozy hatred of anything that intrudes upon the gloom of your cynicism.
“Then they try and try to take down parliament any way they can – even siding with the Bloc, to no avail.”
Are the Bloc already a seperate country in your mind, have they already declared quebec autonomous? No they haven’t have they therefore they are still a legitamate party within parliament. Certainly they are more legitamately there than the Liberals, who if parliamentary law were followed would have been declared ineligeble for riding nomination until the sponsorship affair were handled and any questionable members set aside for court. Also It is the duty of the opposition on all fronts including the duplicitous NDP to ensure that the laws of parliament are being followed by the government. Thus anything less than what they have been doing would be treason to the crown and treason to their constituents. Obviously I am not speaking of the NDP here. Again this failure of the opposition to bring down the government could, like in your case, be interpreted as a weakness of policy and or virtue. Or it could be indicative of the depth and breadth of the dragon these knights have to slay.
“Get the message – the right has no place in governance. (opposition maybe.)”
Now YOU get the message, Mockpuppet, if virtue and honor have no place in governance this country is not worth paying taxes for. If corruption should be allowed to rule with inpunity, all is indeed lost. But if you are going to come out of your hibernation den of cynicism self doubt mistrust for others and convince others like yourself to do the same. Then maybe just maybe after a long long fight with many casualties going down in flames before this monumentally huge dragon of corruption, we may again have a country worth being proud of again. And I quote,”Don’t get me wrong.. I’m pissed at the gun registry money, the UN money, the airbus money, the hotel/golf course money,sponsorship money it goes on and on. The solution is not to switch one set of dead spark plugs for another.” Too true but the solution also is not to do nothing, in fact very often the solution is to take the sparkplugs out try some new ones, if they don’t work, maybe take a look at the carbeurator and timing, and so on untill the damn thing runs without having to hit it with a hammer.
Daryl
WL Mackenzie Redux said “Explaining the absolutism of ethics to a liberal is like explaining quantum math or astral physics to a sand flea….both are done in hopes of breaking through a geneticly programmed barrier to more evolved values and higher knowing.”
You’re in trouble now WL. I think the Liberal Women’s Caucus is meeting right now to discuss demanding an apology to all sand fleas.
“The Liberal Women’s Caucus has several sand fleas on retainer, who act as researchers and policy advisors. These sand fleas are integral to Liberal policy formation, and it is unconscionable for anyone to make remarks of that nature. We demand WL apologize at once. In fact, Stephen Harper should apologize too.”
Cockpuppet?? (CP)
pretty good, considering that CP is shelling out more insult than argument 😉
Anyway, mock/cock whatever, for one looking for shades of gray, how come all your agreements are based on the same form of either/or dualism. I mean, re-read your points. All either/or.
And what’s with all the non sequitors. Yeah, the talk is about the liberals and corruption and suddenly for you it’s iraq, WMD, chickenhawks, etc, ad nauseaum. jeez man.
I mean, do you LLL guys have only one speed, “rote drone” or what. What the point of even discussing things with you. Or maybe that is exactly the point.
Oh the rage, the out right astonishment. With Belinda gone the conservatives have no one tied to Power Corp and M Strong. How will this country survive. The Librano$ are Canada, and Canada is run by the circle of Power Corp.
What are we to do, Power Corp must maintain power. If the conservatives get in, our funding will be cut off. We must do everything to discredit Harper and the cons. They must not take control or there will be investigations. I call on all Canadaian(Moonbats) not to let this happen. Power corp/Martin/Strong must survive…
/sarcasim off
the solution, here, is not to change the sparkplugs, but to take the old heap to the boneyard and recycle it. An industrial crusher can do amazing things with a car, ( same as Saddam Hussein did with an industrial wood-chipper). Either way- you never have to deal with it again, and it sure as hell discourages others from pulling the same stunt.
Kate – this should be sent to every Letters to the Editor in Canada. Try the community newspapers – the independants- they may be less infiltrated.
BTW – the $750,000 trust fund account the Liberals set up? According to Ablonsky today in QP the balance there is 0.00.
They only SAID they were putting the money in in case there was an election. That’s the Liberal Way you have to practice.
Now they don’t have to. They will get their $2 million from elections Canada and now that they SAID they put the money in trust the media will tell us – well they SAID they did it so that’s good enough. Quit being “angry”. Play nice.
So Simple So True But Certain Places And People Will Never Even Have A Clue What You Said Because They Are So In Touch With Black They Cant Believe There Is Any Other Color
Dante,s Inferno
All hope is lost those who enter here.
I dont believe we are in hell yet so there is still hope.
I believe conservatives have a very good chance of getting rid of the crooks in the election coming up.
Im believing canadians will vote against the corruption which presents conservatives with an excellant opportunity,we very much need to capitalise on this and work towards this window of opportunity while it lasts.I guess that means involvement any way we can,Im speaking to myself here as I have trouble getting off the couch other than to go to the fridge.
If the corruption party gets back in this election I truly do fear Dantes Inferno.
Kate…YOU ROCK. (have I seen this somewhere before?)
After the budget vote I was almost ashamed to say I was Canadian, but as long as someone like you is out there telling it like it is, there IS hope.
Never stop girl.
Hey Doug,
Your right of course, and I’m continuing the fight, but I’m paralleling it with the separation strategy, If the election fails, the jump option has to be there as well.
If I, and others, were to continue on a singular path, there is not to many places you can go if the plan fails.
You know a little bit about me, and know that the basic strategy has to switch from reactive to proactive, defense to the aggressor, singular to multiple options. It’s the only way it will work.
Thus my reason for becoming a card carrying separatist so that the defensive strategy can be quickly turned into the aggressor with no mercy. It’s not anti Canadian etc. etc., it’s just good planning to have multiple exit strategies.
Here in Tranna Ontario, des only git’s excited bout when de cable TVs goes up. Yup, de only time I seen em’ git excited round here. But boys they did git it up though, maybes we tories kin tells dem Tranna hi-societies types we is gonna raise em’ kable Tvs bill. That aught to git em excited!!
“Stupid woman. Rand should have known that so-called “poison” can be ingested safely if dosage remains within limits of toxicity”
Rand wasn’t a biologist. Toxic is a relative term as there are no toxic substances, just toxic amounts. Gaaah.
I think it’s time for some rather uncivil disobedience.
Didn’t SoDamn InSane read Dostoyevski? I’m sure the Liberals too, like Radya, were disgusted at the THOUGHT of the crime before it was committed…(default to sarcasm)
Sean is correct. It’s time we started oppossing the Liberals directly. And the means have always been there in the Provinces. Alberta alone has had 3 great opportunities to stick it to the federal Liberals in the last few years.
The gun registry.
Health Care.
Same sex marriage.
All of these are areas that the province could have stood up to the federales in, but the lame duck Klein didn’t.
It’s time we start, from thr grass roots up.
Okay, a stupid question maybe – but does all this mean that the liberals get to keep the money?
that question assumes the Liberals were ever really going to give it back. I mean, if you can bilk and steal money from the masses, and survive THAT, what in God’s name would ever convince you to give back what you stole?
Kate:
The rain it raineth every day,
It raineth on the just and the unjust fella,
But mostly on the just, because,
The unjust hath the just’s umbrella.
Western Standard?
Unable to comment? Problem here or there?
It�s isn�t simply the Liberals. There is a deeper problem with our political system. As I’ve posted elsewhere in Shotgun, compare Canada with Australia.
Australia has a vibrant economy, with a higher GDP than Canada, and is, unlike Canada, robustly visible on the international scene.
What has happened in Canada over the last generation, is the erosion of democracy. This has been enabled by a political infrastructure amenable to such an erosion. Why? Because it is set up as unaccountable and alienated from an electorate.
The Australian political system is, like that of Canada, the US, etc – bicameral. Two houses. BUT, unlike Canada’s, the entire Australian (and US) system is accountable to the electorate. Both houses are elected.
In Australia, the Senate has 76 seats. Twelve EACH from each of the six states (provinces) and two from each of the two territories. Notice the equality. Notice the accountability. one half of the state members are elected every 3 years..for a six year term. The territorial elections are every 3 years. Notice the responsiveness, the accountability to the electorate, the clear agenda of variation to prevent any one-agenda take-over.
The Senate in Canada? About 105 members. ALL, ALL, ALL are patronage. NONE, NONE are accountable to any electorate. Only to the person and party who appointed them, and to their …ahem…morality. No fixed terms; keep this taxpaid nonsense until the age of 75. Are we insane?
The Australian House of Representatives, akin to our commons, is 150 members..elected for 3 years. Ours is 308 members (why so many…???) and for at least 5 years.
What we have set up in Canada is a system that can readily be moved beyond the reach of the electorate, beyond any and all accountability, and beyond the electorates ability to change.
The extent of the patronage system in Canada is enormous. Note merely the Senate, but, the G-G, the judges, the deputy ministers, the heads of our media systems (CBC, CRTC) which control our information systems, Bell Canada, Via Rail..the list goes on an on. Health care systems, research systems…they are all appointed.
What this sets up, in a population of ONLY 32 million (Australia has 20 million) is a system that can be rapidly and easily corrupted. That is exactly what has happened over the last generation. (A larger population can also be corrupted but it’s easier in a smaller population). Note how Australia has genuinely worked to prevent such a corrupt takeover, while Canada has set itself up for corruption.
Are we that naive to believe that each and every individual in our political and economic realm operates ethically? Morally? With accountability to the public that PAYS THEM?? How dumb can we be?
Our political system has been corrupted, in that most of our political and economic power has moved beyond the reach of the electorate. They are not elected; they are not accountable to elected officials. They are beyond the reach of the Auditor-General (and note how the Liberals denigrate Sheila Fraser and try to prevent her from reporting, from searching..).
So- since most of this power has moved into unaccountability, what has emerged is a cabal of power – the PowerCorp/Desmarais Group…an almost inevitable emergence in a small closely knit population..especially one that has reduced electorate participation in the gov’t by the insane insistence on bilingualism. This cabal runs our political system.
Since so much power in Canada has moved beyond the reach of the electorate, than, it is naive of us to expect an elected leader (Harper or anyone) or party (the CPC) to ALONE be able to solve this crisis. Remember, all that the elected representatives can do- is use the upfront powers of the House. They have no ‘reach’ elsewhere. They are shackled – and I mean that word.
What to do? It is up to the people of the country to ‘take back democracy’ in Canada. We have to talk, write MPs, write newspapers, blog, talk, and talk.
Otherwise – it will get worse. We are seeing the phenomena of an utterly corrupt Liberal govt (but it could be any party!!)..beyond the reach of the electorate. And..it will get worse.
The only thing worse than a liar and a thief, is a sanctimonious liar and a thief.
I am beginning to think that the only way to save this country is for all conservatives to pretend to be Liberals long enough to get inside the Party, take it over with stealth, and eviscerate it. Maybe that’s the hidden agenda, and Belinda is just the first of many.
Meatpuppet:
I suppose the transient values and fidelity in the lib-left utopian kingdom left you feeling a tad hollow and unfulfilled what with all the superficial “friendship” there….so you sojourn to a world where words mean things and what is promised is a bond…the world of the new right…of rational non compromise.
Fidelity and absolutist ethics….. not used in lib-world any more.
I sense that your need to so vehemently deny the obvious infidelity of the Martin cartel is a telling trait of someone who does not really swallow the partisan dogma fed him. I think you realize that anything Martin promises will never be a reality….we won’t see the NDP budget, we won’t see an election writ after gomery, we won’t see systemic clean up of government or solution to the “democratic deficeit” or western alienation or fractured confederalism. We WILL se an ethically devolved Liberal political cabal cling to power by employing ANY deceit needed.
What we can rely on is the liberal track record of broken promises and hidden agendas…..the only ethics present in the modern Liberal creed is: power for power’s sake and at any cost.
There’s your Liberal morality right there bucko. But you want so desparately to believe there’s more…a higher value…”a greater good”…like the mythological soap the lib spin team wax you useful partisan idiots down with.
Well there isn’t more…..and the only way you will placate any sense of higher ethical values is to shed relexive partisanism to a thoroughly debauched ( so-called) Liberal political cartel and their fallacious dogma.
ET,
Australia definitely has a more accountable system, and it would take almost an uprising here to get that implemented. To do it over time would be difficult as one corrupted element, or attempt to maintain power, would circumvent the process.
WL Mackenzie Redux
Your comment should be in every paper in the county…sadly there, for the most part, against truth.
Rob- it wouldn’t take an ‘uprisiing’ (i.e., violent revolution) to implement the Australian or effectively, an entirely elected and accountable political system here. It would take, siimply and only, the will of the people.
We have reached a bifurcation point in Canadian history; a crossroads. Either we continue, as we are, which is downhill into a corruption that is entrenched, that is almost a theocracy in that it assumes a legitimacy merely because it ‘is’ over time – or – we take back democracy. I mean it; our current situation is as serious as that.
We are economically protected from the results of our political corruption by the fact that we have a constant consumer at our doorstep – the USA. Without that protection – which we denigrate and deride – we’d be like Zimbabwe in a few years – with a dysfunctional economy.
But, make no mistake. Our political system is no longer ours, i.e., we, the people, do not control it. The extent of the patronage infastructure is increasing, as we have seen, to the elected bodies. The current Liberal government is being shown, by the Gomery Inquiry, to be in power due to non-elected and unaccountable actions. That will continue and increase, because as it increases, it silences opposition, silences reason, silences calls for empirical objective evidence.
Our elected Opposition, the CPC, cannot take back democracy on its own, because it is shackled within the requirements of accountability. Unlike the Liberals.
Therefore, it is up to the people of Canada – not to sit back and watch passively but to take active participation. Write MPs, write newspapers, set up more blogs. Blog and blog.
I absolutely reject that inserting democracy into Canada would require a revolution. It requires only the will of a group of people. Once they begin to be heard – the GreyPeople – those middle of the road people whom Kate talks about – The GreyPeople will follow.
ET – Agreed, and it would be nice to have a peaceful solution, but history has shown, sometimes violence is necessary to remove dictators, and I’m not necessarily opposed to that if it takes that extreme to restore democracy.
The hardest obstacle to overcome, and the one that will be the biggest challenge and fight, is the representation by population. The challenges to this item in the past have already been rejected a few times. Senate is the best example, AB attempts to put in place elected senators, and there rejected for patronage by the ruling party. That would have been a starting point, but the thirst for power overwhelmed the needs of fairness and accountability.
BlueEyes: Sorry, but I’m for SSM and while I’m opposed to the gun registry, I tend to favour compound bows as I’ve always regarded guns as being the choice of unskilled pussies.
What I have in mind is a propaganda campaign aimed at the Liberal’s core constituency that amplifies all of the areas where the Libranos fall down (e.g. Paul Martin’s company CSL has a suck ass environmental record while PM the PM himself uses a private physician). The idea would be to drive soft Lib votes over to the NDP or Greens.
I’m a Green supporter myself, but I could live with a less corrupt CPC government in the meantime until the Greens get some traction.
I’m going to drive out to Saskabush for a week this summer and bounce some ideas on this off of Kate after I’ve had time to firm them up more.
“I am beginning to think that the only way to save this country is for all conservatives to pretend to be Liberals long enough to get inside the Party, take it over with stealth, and eviscerate it.”
This approach worked well for Ralph Klein. That pinko b*****d is about as ‘Conservative’ as Svend Robinson is honest about paying for his purchases. **COUGH ** When you live in a one party state (or province) the best solution is to commandeer the leading party.
The challenges that conservative Canadians face are daunting. And I know from my own political activitsm here in the States how difficult it can be to move a comparatively minor issue into the possibility of reform.
In the US, of course we finally managed to become completely dominant on talk radio. We have Fox News, and there are other instruments that help to keep the conservative agenda viable.
You guys have something we don’t have. At least the potential for separation. Here are my thoughts.
1. Alberta, we love you. Join us. We need you to help us deal with the dark forces around the world. You would get at least a 30 percent better deal across the board. Alberta would be great for the US, and the US would be great for Alberta.
However, here’s what you could do.
2. Get some of your oil executives in touch with some of our oil executives about the possibility of joining the US. Let our guys take these back-channel converstations back to Bush. Have off-the-record exploratory conversations and iron a lot of things out before you ever go public.
3. Consider becoming a US territory. Then if you liked the US, you could join. If you decided it wasn’t for you, you could leave. Meanwhile, while you were a US territory, you could place all the demands that ET so eloquently presents at the doorstep of Ottawa. If they want you back, they have to change all this stuff.
4. If they don’t want to change, you become a US state and automatically have a large number of ET’s considerations (elected senators and so forth) as automatically part of the deal anyway. What’s the matter with leading a 30-35% better life? Worse things have happened.
5. Once you become a state, you can have all of your elected politicians relentlessly carry on a campaign to change Canada for the benefit of all of the friends and family who still suffer under the yoke of the current system. At this juncture, you would not be able to re-join Canada.
So in short, you could use separation as a lever to demand the changes you want from Canada. If you couldn’t get those changes, guess what? You’re a US state anyway and then you can relentlessly hound them for a better life in the security of US citizenship. You’re up against such a daunting challenge I don’t see how you’re going to be able to move things off square 1 without powerful leverage.
The “Green Party” has been mentioned.
This “party” uses the word green as a cover for its dogma of Communist tyranny.
Not for nothing is the “Green Party” named the watermelon party: Green on the outside; red in the inside. (Search the ‘net).
Beware the sweet, succulent, siren-song of the “Green Party”.
The “Green Party”, as is the NDP, is a natural ally of the Liberal/Socialist Party.
Furthermore, the “Liberal Party” is a socialist party; the National Socialist Party.
Read and listen to ET’s message.ET is based here on earth,in Canada, today.
Blog on, ET. Join with ET and blog on.
Greg,
Exactly, and very well put. Because we don’t have the population base, and because the system is based on rep by pop., we have no lever and are considered a bunch of winers.
In any strategy there has to be multiple approaches and responses to the ultimate outcome. The weaker approach generally is squashed by the stronger response.
Your method would deliver a very strong approach which would leave the choice of continuance in the hands of the people that created the problem. That would determine if the rest of the country has the will to even maintain a union, or if there comfortable with the situation there in.
It wouldn’t be a struggle for power, it would be a struggle to see if the rest of the country wants a better democracy, or if they want to continue down the path to a socialist state. It’s actually a very good solution that would probably include no violence, and the outcome would be determined relativily quickly..
I’ll have to compile a list of contacts.
ET. I agree with your post of 11.27 AM. But this is not going to happen on the federal level. It can happen in Alberta however. Alberta needs to elect a government that is strong enough to go in this direction on its own. They don’t need to threaten anybody about separation. As much as I love America, I love Canada more. Just not the majority of Canadians at the moment. In my opinion this is what Alberta must and can do:
1. Elect a party that is strong enough to go their separate way *in* Canada if necessary.
2. Set up its own provincial police force.
3. Set up its own Health Care program.
4. Withhold all monies going to Ottawa each year for both #2 and 3.
5. Enter into its own agreement with the United States for the sale of oil, beef and grain.
6. Build two additional pipe lines to the United States (not sure these are required though).
7. Kill the Gun Law.
8. Withdraw their support for Kyoto.
9. Invite BC, Saskatchewan and Manitoba to join them and do similar. This doesn’t really matter though.
10. Strengthen their provincial courts. Not sure how they can do this but they need to get rid of all the Liberal, queezy, tree-hugging, child-killer loving judges and appoint ones that are more inclined to support the will of the people of Alberta instead of Ontario.
11. Strengthen their sentences for drug trafficking. Life sentences for the big boys.
12. Strengthen its representation in the Senate. Not that the Senate is good for anything though. I say just abolish it.
Then, what Albertans need to do, *if* Ottawa decided to fight Alberta in the courts on any of these issues, and they will, is to withhold all tax payable to Ottawa for as long as the court case lasts. Everyone who voted for this ‘New Party’ could, together, pay their taxes into an interest bearing account set up in their own name in a local Credit Union. This is important. Don’t refuse to pay taxes, but pay them into a holding account in the name of each taxpayer. Is Ottawa going to sue each individual taxpayer? Nope.
Now, can anyone tell me that this won’t work? Can anyone tell me that it’s too complicated? Can anyone tell me that Albertans lack the intestinal fortitude to pull this off? Trust me. If anyone can pull something like this off it is Alberta. There are more pissed off Albertans today than there are pissed off Quebecers.
All they need is a good plan and a strong provincial government to follow. No threats. No getting mad at anybody. Just action.
Liberal Party Credo:
�Let every Canadian know, whether they wish us well or ill, we shall pay any price, break any law, meet any crook, sellout any friend, bribe any foe, to assure the survival of corruption and Liberal power.� (Apologies to JFK)
To paraphrase Winston Churchill: �Canada had the choice between honesty and corruption. It has chosen corruption now, it will get honesty later.�
Letter From Canada
Letter to the BBC, May 21, 2005
Sadly, the mainstream media in Canada has consistently downplayed or withheld numerous key facts concerning the scandal. Among these is the infamous “paragraph K” in the Gomery Commission’s terms of reference which m…
John Crittenden,
Yes very viable, but the only party close to those options, currently, is the Separation Party of Alberta, http://separationalberta.com .
If you read through there platform, there saying just about the same thing, accept that they would pursue full separation. If a workable alternative was available, they would probably be open to it. I’ll fire your statement off to them and see if I get a response.
Again, this is the big lever Greg was discussing, and leaves 3 outcomes, Stay, Go, Join the US.
I like John Crittenden’s and Greg’s suggestions in part, in part,..and in theory not in practice.
Why not in practice? Because we have to be very careful NOT to lock ourselves into a ‘distinct’ party, a separate political party that will simply function as That Party with only, and only, Its Members.
I agree with so many of the concepts. Cancel the Gun Registry; get in private health care; withdraw from the Kyoto fiasco; get online with BMD; stronger ties with the US; oh- and get rid of bilingualism; an elected Senate; get rid of the G-G (both the current Incumbent-For-Life and the position); each of the decentralized regions that I’ve been proposing enters into its own economic agreements…etc.
What I’ve been proposing is a restructuring of the federation into five or six self-organized economic regions. Quebec, unilingual, is one. Ontario is another. The West is another. BC may be with them.Maritimes is another. Nfld/Labrador may be with them. The North. These are ‘regions’ rather like States. Self-organized with the major economic, health care, education powers and taxing by and for themselves.
The federal gov’t ought to be VASTLY reduced in power (and bureaucracy and taxation)..and runs primarily the ‘interconnectional system’: post office, transportation, defense. Most key powers get moved to the Regions and out of Ottawa’s hands.
An elected Senate. A reduced in numbers Commons.
Now- I don’t think that getting together another Party or separate activity is the answer. Why not? Because we’d end up locking ourselves AND our ideas within the party. In order to share our ideas people would feel that they’d have to ‘join the party’. They would have to make a choice. That was the downfall of the Reform, the Alliance, and other parties. Don’t ask people to make a choice of joining a party. Especially Canadians who have been educated and socialized not to, ever, make any choices. Kate wasn’t kidding when she talked about The Grey area. That’s Canadian. We call it ‘tolerance’ but that’s rubbish. It’s in reality, a head-in-the sands standing back and watching the rest of the world do it all.
I don’t think we should establish our ideas, which are really basic democratic principles, into a party or party ideology. Some of these issues, such as SSM, gun registry, health care..are ‘political issues’ in the sense that they are not infrastructural but are Issues, concepts that a population will either agree or not agree with.
What I’m talking about is deeper than the issues. It’s the infrastructure within which we, as a people, can decide for ourselves, our agreement with these issues.
What has been destroyed in this country – is that basic democratic infrastructure. We, the people, no longer have a democracy. We don’t have a democratic voice. Decisions are made, not by and for us – but by a small, unelected, unaccountable, self-serving group in Montreal-Ottawa.
Was Iraq a decision made by us or by Chretien?
Kyoto?
BMD?
Health care?
Gun registry?
Is our parliament accountable to us for what it does and how it spends our money? No.
First- let’s take back democracy in this country. That means that we have to TALK about the fact that Canada is no longer a democracy but an oligarchy.
I strongly warn against setting up a party, no matter how enticing, no matter how good it might feel to be in a situation where we can speak our minds and not have to listen to others without that attribute.
First- we have to take back democracy. The only way that I can think of doing this – and I’m no seer or sage – is by talking about its loss, both in the specifics and its repair.
Newspaper articles, magazine articles, more and more blogs must be set up. Ignore the mainstream media except to send them, constantly, copies of our blogs and articles. The MSM are withering; they are still there, but they don’t have the ‘reach-out’ power of electronic media.
Send MPs our blogs; send them articles.
More and more blogs and more and more talk. That will, in itself, reach a threshold point when it becomes, no longer marginal but yes, mainstream. I’m serious. I’m using physical and biological principles of organization…(complexity theory when a system reaches a threshold point of energy-organization and ‘flips’ into a new organization…)..but..it will work.
What we have to do, is articulate a number of key structural points. Not the issues; they come later. The point is, Canadians will listen; and, like ‘swarming’ in biological systems, they will move closer to The Talk. Closer and closer to the talk; and they will, without realizing it, become part of that talk.
What’s the talk?
1) The FACT that Canada is no longer a democracy but an oligarchy; due to its huge percentage of unelected key positions – of Senate, of judges, of CEOs in major positions.
2) The FACT that this unelected patronage system has become corrupt, unaccountable, unanswerable to the people – Gomery, PowerCorp/Desmarais groups and activities – list them. The hidden sums of money in Foundations.
3) The FACT that centralization of powers in Ottawa is an enormous waste of taxpayer money, resulting in a bloated bureaucracy, inefficient services.
4) The FACT that our health care system is a disaster..and requires privatization.
5) The FACT that our population base has increased to a critical level, and our geographic spread requires – a new federalism; namely, decentralization – with vastly increased economic and social powers to go to the Regions and removed from Ottawa.
All I’m suggesting at the moment, is that these concepts should become part of the public ‘talk’. Harper and the CPC can’t do it all for us. We have to be ‘the voices’ ..
Hey, John, ya big firewallin’lug. Get in touch with Ted Morton.
Uh oh… you be in trouble now John
Think they’ll pay ya for implementation…. 😉
Are the PC’s in AB starting to get mad:
http://www.tedmorton.ca/speeches/fair_deal/firewalls.html
One can only hope….
Gee, I think I’ll spent a bit more than the ten minutes or so that it took to complete my comment of 02:07 PM and get back with something a bit more concrete. I’m sure I left a number of important things off my list. But then I’m only an artist. What the hell to I know?
Well, one thing I do know for sure is that my uncles did not die in WWII for the Canada we now have. I’ll repeat a few lines that I posted on another blog a few days ago.
“I went for a hike today. I got out in the bush with my camera, alone for awhile. After a couple hours I stopped for a breather. I sat down and looked around at my country. It is times like this that I realize how beautiful a country Canada is, and how lucky we are to live here. I am proud of Canada. I am. I’m just not proud to *be* a Canadian right now. There’s a difference.
“Canada used to be a proud nation. I remember standing in the barnyard outside our farmhouse near Melita, Manitoba in 1942 when I was about three. A squadron of planes passed overhead, on their way to Europe and the war. One of the planes dipped its wings. That was the custom when they flew over a town or city of someone on board. I knew uncle Billy was on that plane. I remember my grandmother crying, not much, but a little.
“I remember when I was about four years old and was in a park in Essex, Ontario during the last year of WWII. The grownups were burning the effigy of Hitler and singing songs. I had already lost two uncles. We didn’t know if there would be more.
“These are the reasons why I have no patience. Canada has become irrelevant. I do not understand people who cannot see, and who refuse to understand what is happening to our country.
“Wearing a red flower for one day a year is not enough. Soon there will be no more red flowers…
The fact that so many in Canada are satisfied with incompetence, poor management, corruption, fraud, deceit, corrupt judiciary appointments, electoral fraud, lying, bribery, criminal conspiracies, illiteracy, backstabbing and betrayal in their elected officials makes me think things will not get better for some time. Canada is being run by a backroom group of filthy rich people and criminals who do not care about Canada. The Liberal Party is their means of implementing their programs, all of which are designed to increase their hold on power and make them even richer.
These are the reasons why I think it depends on individual provinces to say enough is enough, and take control of their own destiny. In Canada if possible. If not, well, there are other ways.
John Crittenden,
I have read many of your comments and you always say something that makes perfect sense but has not been articulated mind before. KEY POINT stop arguing with corrupt Liberal/ND frount yappers and default to action -one step at a time.
The Yukon Territory has 29,000 people ; territorial gov’t is Conservative (majority -no election for 2 years – this gov’t is the direct result of a Lib/ND vote splitting in the last election)Fed gov’t is Liberal – Larry Bagnel, Larry does not fake his low IQ. The Yukon was once SOLID Conservative but in 1986 a ND territorial gov’t won due to infighting among Conservatives ; as soon as Socialists hit the benches they got Fed pork and we got Gov’t workers moved up here to work for the socialists. We also got minnions of environmentalists who shut down mining. Most real Yukoners moved to the USA or to Alberta. Now the territory is 2/3 imported Socialists. Larry Bagnel brings in truckloads of cash to prop up the case for the Socialists and the territorial gov’t takes the money and tacitly props up Bagnel. The Conservatives have an uphill battle so we need some Conservative imports to win the next election. The Yukon Party would LOVE to see some production (because they are Conservatives with hands tied), Alta could help – send us some voters for the next election. Put some Companies up here with Alta workers. The Yukon would be a HUGE loss for the Liberals because it is their only stronghold in the west and it is next door to Alaska. With a population of only 29,000 and 1/3 already Conservatives – the table is set – all we need is the Beef.
I just have to tell Kate how much I appreciate her post with references to Ann Rand. Ann is demonized by MSM as heartless, meanspirited …and so on…she uses a language not easy to understand if a person has never studied philosophy but she did write a book in plain English that spells out the end for people if they continue to allow this Black Reign of Corruption to reach it’s goal: Dictatorship of the Prolitariate via Elitist Socialism (there is NO OTHER type of Socialism, something the bleeding heart spokesmen for the Lib/ND brand have brainwashed people to NEVER contemplate). That book is “We,The Living”. You can buy it in used book stores or on the net. Keep up the good work all you bloggers who care about the Canadians -the TRUE Canadians- of this country.
Kate Caves to the New Liberal Reality
Kate, of Small Dead Animals, has finally realized that the battle is not worth fighting. She’s conceding, and re-aligning her world to fit the new reality: The Liberal Party will not only continue to exist, they shall continue to govern…
Sorry ET, I still have to go with John’s “I’m just an artist” plan.. 😉
Reason:
There is to many fundemental differences between east and west, and in talking to people down there, they are comfortable with the way of life, the hand outs, and the patronage. They will not change if they’ve become accustomed to social dependency until you take it away.
Alberta is already looked at as a bunch of whining bleeding hearts with more money then they know what to do with, and were the annoying little brother that has no rational bases for bitching about anything. All you have to do is read Andrew Coynes comments a few times to realize that the ideology out here is totally different, and it would take a radical shift before anybody would consider or even look at it.
This would also aid in the concerns jema54 is bringing to the table as well.
Jema54. I don’t live in Alberta at the moment, although I will go back as soon as I feel a strong provincial party needs my vote. I will also go up to your area if that will help. I’m as free as a gypsi now, and can ‘go where the action is’, so to speak. I guess I’m saying my vote is for sale, but only to the right people of course.
In the meantime I will do what I can to make those around me aware of what is going on. Sorry if I bark too much about the corruption but this is the central problem and can’t be ignored. It amazes me how may people I know do not take time to educate themselves before voting. I’m trying to educate a few but it ain’t easy.
As for Ayn Rand, I love her writings. Fountainhead was the first I read many years ago. Those were the years when a few of us artists, a couple poets, a Rabbi, and a couple ministers used to meet on a Friday afternoon somewhere in Edmonton or Calgary and talk about things like religion and politics, etc. I think we may have started the sidewalk cafe thing. We did drag our cables out on the sidewalk a few times. Some of us would bring their latest sketches from field trips, some would read a poem or two. We all talked about politics and religion though. We all really thought that we could change the world. Well, it’s some 40 years later. Half of us have passed away. And the world may have indeed changed, but it hasn’t been for the good in my opinion.
Anyway, back to the present. This is how I see the next election shaping up, given that most or all votes in Quebec will go to the Bloc. Look for Quebec to go 100% for the Bloc next election. The Conservatives will probably stay about where they are. So the Liberals will probably lose some seats but still form a minority government. This is how I see the next government in Ottawa:
Liberal 109
NDP 25
Conservative 96
Bloq 75
Independent 3
I do not think the Liberals want an election at any time right now. The Sponsorship fraud has done it for them, and they know it. They have lost Quebec for good. And, even though many still say they will vote Liberal, I wonder how many will when the time comes and no-one is watching them cast their vote.
The Conservatives now need to make sure that *none* of their MPs are bought out. They made a mistake with Belinda Stronach, who was a plant in my opinion. She must be the last. My fear is that she won’t be the last.
jema54,
John and Greg’s plan would ultimately encourage change in your area as well. If AB said enough already, no more transfers, it would put the feds in a position were they would have to make up the difference or start cuts. The first to get cut would be special interest groups such as your tree huggers. The people there would start making noise, the prov gov would have to do more to encourage business to gain revenue, and the feds would have to slowly make social programs more efficient, or cut them back. In other words, people would have to put more emphasis on productivity.