We’re come for your liver, sir.
On Monday, [Nova Scotia] becomes the first jurisdiction in North America to switch from an opt-in donation system to an opt-out system. It’s a move that medical experts across the continent are watching with great interest.
Instead of signing organ donation cards, the system is now built around presumed consent — that every adult is open to being a donor when they die.
“But if you’re dead, you don’t need your organs.”
If you’re dead, you don’t need your savings or property either.
Why should I give a doctor any incentive to have me die instead of doing all he can to save my life? NOBODY deserves that kind of power to decide life or death. As an example, a less-than-proficient MD may declare “Aw, he’s brain dead and doesn’t need his organs now, so let’s euthanize him so we can harvest his organs!” Well… Doctors have misdiagnosed brain death too many times for me to be comfortable with them making that call. Isn’t that how they do things in Communist China?
If my odds of survival are minimal, I’ll take those odds. At least I’d have a fighting chance. As a wise man once said, “If you’re falling off a cliff, you may as well try to learn how to fly!”
I shouldn’t have to “opt-out,” but if it has to come down to that, you can bet that I will.
“My body, My choice!”
WHY DOCTORS WILL NOT LET YOU DIE IF YOU’RE A REGISTERED ORGAN DONOR
Tl;dr 1. THE HIPPOCRATIC OATH: A common abbreviated interpretation of the Hippocratic Oath is “First, do no harm.” In other words, the patient in front of a physician is their top priority. A patient’s death in the ER happens because all ethically possible lifesaving efforts have been made, but the trauma was too severe.
THE EMERGENCY ROOM PROCESS: In an emergency, physicians, nurses and other EMS workers don’t have time to even check a patient’s name—let alone their donation registration status, assuming it’s even shown on their ID. They work hard and swiftly to stabilize a patient. That’s it. Further, registered or not, becoming a donor is rare. Less than 1 percent of people who die in a hospital setting are even eligible organ donors since a donor needs to be on a ventilator and die from brain death or circulatory death.
DONOR REGISTRY CONFIDENTIALITY AND THE ACCREDITATION AGENCIES: The entire donation process is subject to auditing, on both the clinical and administrative sides. An important factor is the handling of personal information. Therefore, it’s not possible for medical professionals to know with certainty a donor’s registration status until donation is even in the realm of possibility and the donor registry gets involved.
COMPATIBILITY COMPLEXITY: Once organ donation is deemed possible, there are countless variables that add to the complexity of realizing that donation for transplantation—from donor to recipient. These variables include clinical and physiologic variables, such as: overall donor health and organ function; social and medical history; size the of patient; size of the organs; and blood type. They also include logistical variables, such as: allocation policies; geography; hospital services; and transportation.
TRAUMA DOCTORS’ SEPARATION FROM TRANSPLANTATION AND THE ALLOCATION PROCESS: Assuming somehow, someway a doctor knew your registration status—what good does that do? This doctor has no control in the donation process once you’re declared dead. As stated above, a trauma surgeon is separated from the process of transplantation. They are not involved in organ or tissue recovery, they don’t contribute in any way to histocompatibility testing, and the organ placement is handled by United Network of Organ Sharing (UNOS), a national nonprofit. UNOS is the link between donors and recipients. Following national laws and policies, the allocation of organs is done with the help of a computerized network that identifies transplant candidates in ways that save as many lives as possible.
And all this does not mean shit because doctors have their back channels of communications that none can scrutinize.
As for Hippocratic oath it is a joke to all doctors. If doctors were concerned about doing no harm they would not stonewall every malpractice investigation and would not hide behind CMPA when they f**d up. They are not concerned abut doing no harm, they are concerned about getting rich off Canadian taxpayers. They have no conscience, your health is an accidental bi-product of their job description. If job description was killings they would do that just as well (as they do with abortions or “assisted suicides”).
What does a doctor possibly have to gain from illegally harvesting your organs to give to someone at the top of the list on the other side of the country, hmmm?
“Gratitude” from his colleague who will do the transplant. Same as pointless referrals for unnecessary treatments and tests for which their friends then bill the taxpayer. Except that people who do transplants pull a very considerable weight, they are among the top skilled medical professionals, and they are utterly drunk on power, cynical and completely uninterested in trivial childish matters like Hippocratic oath. They get to experiment with life human subjects and that is their high. They are necessary but their leash is way too long.
If you know some doctors, especially those working in trauma, get them drunk and just listen to them talk. Your hair will turn gray.
Alrighty you’re actually insane, peace out my dude.
Your surrender has been accepted.
Money. There’s plenty of money in organ donation. It isn’t done for free no matter what you say.
There’s been countless expose’s on who benefits.
the next step will be harvesting them from live people like they do in China
Moving policies in line with Communist China.
I told Len Webber off a couple years ago for introducing this bill in Federal parliament.
*
you can trust the government… right?
“I voted for the Liberals in the last election specifically because
I was so frustrated with first-past-the-post, and I was
euphoric when they won!”
“Finally, my vote will count no matter what riding I’m in!”
Francis said, grinning from ear to ear.
*
Well who didn’t see this coming? Hell, I foresee a future where having two kidneys will be considered selfish.
I lived in the UK for three years in the early 1990s, so I’m not allowed to give blood because I *might* have the prions from Mad Cow Disease. I opt out of my state’s organ donation system because if my blood isn’t good, how can they want my organs?
I wonder if “opted out” people entering Nova Scotia’s penitentiary system automatically are “re-opted in” to the presumed organ donation program. Can’t let good unshanked meat go to waste…
Ah, Mad Cow Disease, another fake panic.
The only solution to this kind of creepy state creep is organ farming, where the organs are cloned and grown.
Yeah, something your dem-o-rat party would support. Just like you all do with baby parts.
It’s something anyone remotely rational approves of.
You seem very remotely rational.
That is typical for victims of autism. I am increasingly convinced that he is one.
A lot of people support voluntary organ donation. That’s not the point for most of us.
Liberals don’t grasp that.
WRONG. The DNC does.
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“unme squeals… It’s something anyone remotely rational approves of.”
more unme the humanitarian…
“The only outrage here is the continued persecution of people for
committing non-crime such as drug dealing and owning guns.”
he’s referring to fentanyl & hot guns btw.
*
Yay, maybe finally they could clone you a functioning brain (and penis) and you would be a real boy.
Now I have an incentive to drink like a fish and ruin my liver.
Vandalizing government property is a felony.
But it it’ll still be okay to mess up your lungs, etc. with wacky weed.
my body, my choice
Kate has also pointed out previoulsy if you think its your right to do with your body as you choose – just try to sell a kidney.
Which got me to thinking – and this brings us a step closer – what happens when the government decides they need kidneys and will allow you to sell one. Will it be market priced? Could you sell it privately (pretty sure that the kidney Bill Gates needs is more valuable than the one your neighbor needs.
And if you can sell a kidney, would that not be considered an asset (you only need on as they say).
If it is an asset could it be siezed in the event you owe money to a third party?
Could you be sued for it?
We are one step closer.
“And if you can sell a kidney, would that not be considered an asset (you only need on as they say).”
Income or Capital gain taxes will apply !
Organ Auctions like they do with poor village people in Eastern Europe would never go over with Liberal governments because the CRA wouldn’t have control on black-market sales.
Much better for Liberals to go China’s route and have FULL control of it’s citizen-slave assets.
Disgusting.
One of the reasons religious organizations have been collapsing is probably because they don’t speak out against organ harvesting.
No one dares to be thought of as selfish when our holier-than-thou doctors can do so much “good”.
One of the reasons religious organizations have been collapsing is probably because they don’t speak out against organ harvesting.
They don’t seem to speak out on anything that’s right and good any more. They will, however, defend whatever is weird, bizarre, or perverted.
The rich just fly to China and get one off the shelf.
Curious to know whether the person who put this legislation forward needs an organ?
Unfortunately brains are non-transferable.
Prinz Dummkopf figures he doesn’t need one.
I am listed as an organ donor, but if SK does this, I will opt out. There are way too many things that government controls without permission. What’s that phrase again – my body, my choice! Karma is a bitch.
Maureen from Regina.
BINGO.
As I suggest below if everybody was like me organ donations would drop to zero.
I would complete and forward my opt out form on the very day of the announcement.
And not because organ donations are a bad thing.
Maureen from Regina
Recall the old Book of the Month marketing ploy.
Some jurisdictions have passed consumer protection laws prohibiting opt-out marketing.
I am in the same position as you. I am willing to voluntarily weight the risk of giving doctors and incentive to kill me against the benefit of saving someone’s life. But when they get a default right, I am opting out. Absolutely.
I recall Kate’s discussion of “just try to sell a kidney” …
It seems only selling the kidney is the problem in these western locales, but buying the kidney is a lot easier “over there”.
The Epoch Times has been reporting on this issue, starting with the Falun Gong participants to this “medical service” from a couple of decades ago. The Epoch Times used to be on so many street corners in major centres, then I started noticing that often times the +50 copies would be destroyed. Persons unknown would have pissed on them, or thrown garbage inside the boxes to discourage others from reading this…
The boxes were often near to The Prairie Dog boxes in Regina, SK. So strange a mishap…
I recall how organ harvesting wasn’t such a big deal in the west when it was the Falun Gong who were the primary donating group. Perhaps it’s the Uyghurs now? So it may bother those in the corridors of western power more now…
https://www.theepochtimes.com/t-organ-transplant
Do the ROC social overseers view westerner’s social comments to check for subversive comments prior to approving your transplant? or does it simply cost more?
If Kyle Bass needed a kidney, how much higher would his rate be over say… the owner of an import/export business?
And…
https://www.theepochtimes.com/wuhan-ground-zero-for-ccp-virus-also-a-major-center-for-organ-transplantation_3385667.html
An overview of the problem as it is now:
https://endtransplantabuse.org/by-david-matas/
somewhat slow loading on this site, possibly because of the weight of information here.
I’m quite surprised that this issue brings up such fear and loathing from the readers of this blog. Singapore implemented a optional opt-out program a number of years ago because they had the same issue – far more patients than donors. So, they flipped it over and said everyone is a donor unless they opt-out. Singapore also created the caveat that if you opt out and you end up needing an organ, you are at the bottom of the list and may not get one. Absolutely fair. Everyone here saying “my body, my choice” you have the option to opt out. I would never support a mandatory organ donor system with no opt-out – that would truly be an infringement of personal rights and freedoms.
If you’re dead and you can provide life to someone else, why not? You’re going to rot in the ground anyway. Your wealth and possessions don’t start to decay and rot the minute you die, so the argument that accumulated wealth will then be up for grabs is a straw man. Accumulated wealth is obviously different than organic tissue as it serves a purpose beyond your life and you can allocate it however you would like.
There are far more people on the donor list than there are donors. How do we address this issue to create parity if not for an opt-out program like the one proposed? Any suggestions to ensure people are not needlessly dying young because others would rather their bodies decompose in the ground?
I’m a long time reader of this blog and I love this community, but this is one issue I think folks are missing the forest for the trees on.
You’re missing the point.
Treating everyone like an ‘organ resource’ provides more of an incentive for Health Care pros to end your life, and less of an incentive for them wanting to save it. It will also save the state the cost of trying to save, or prolong your life.
I’m all for volunteering to “opt-in”, but my organs are MINE, NOT THE STATE’S! If you want MY organs, YOU MUST COME TO ME and ask for MY permission. It shouldn’t have to be the other way around, but it will, if you set up an opting-out policy.
I’m with you on this one. Sure there’s some risk of government overreach, but overall more good than harm will come from this. At least in my religion, there’s no problem with organ donation. Others can opt out.
The issue, sir, is not whether such transplants are successful but whether a government, special-interest group or person can presume and even take your organs, even killing you before natural death.
China has such a system, too, don’t forget.
I agree with this sentiment..as long as the process to opt out is easy and obvious… I personally will not be in a position to opt out or stay in, as on my death (by my choice) some medical students will have the opportunity to cut into me as part of their training to help preserve living folks.
Part of this is just sheer laziness on the part of the health professionals in the system. How many family doctors will have the discussion with their patients to encourage them to voluntarily donate? How many ER doctors will even think to discuss with the family of a brain dead motorcycle victim the option of donation Instead they want government to do the heavy lifting and for government the heavy lifting translates into ‘make a law’.
I believe in organ donation and would willingly provide an organ AT MY CHOICE NOT dictated by the government,
No forest missing here, fella.
The root of the issue is the State has declared it owns your corpse when you die. It has no right to make this law but all the power to enforce. Pure fertilizer.
The root issue is that there is demand for a resource and the supply is limited. Obviously stealing the resource to redistribute is immoral, but transferring a resource from someone that cannot use it and giving it to someone to needs it to live should not be an issue. Again, everyone should have the right to opt out, but those who do should then be at the bottom of the transplant list if they ever need an organ.
Think of it like grocery store produce that is about to go bad. You can either throw it in the dump, or give it people who need it.
“The root issue is that there is demand for a resource and the supply is limited.”
Which is why need government to manage it, because it has always worked so well when they did it with other resources. Give your head a shake.
Also, and you know it it is true, this will give medical professionals an incentive to declare that your quality of life is zero and thus your organs should be better used by someone else.
And from there we may as well rank people according to their social credit score… you know where this is going.
Well, this is probably the first time I’ve ever been the least conservative person in a room. 🙂
Power of attorney is required to remove someone from life support. The doctors do not make this decision in a vacuum. Andrew listed a number of safeguards in place to prevent overreach in our Canadian medical system as well.
Remember the Canadian medical system is not “The Government”. We can all agree that it falls well short of what we would like and is fundamentally structured to introduce waste and incompetence into the system, but I still fundamentally have confidence that the legal system can and would hold the medical system accountable for egregious overreaches such as pulling the plug on someone when the power of attorney did not consent. You would have to prove otherwise for me to change my opinion by showing me cases where Doctors went around pulling plugs without consent and there were no repercussions.
Also, the list of reasons you gave Andrew above on why a Doctor would have incentive to harvest organs rather than save the person’s life are quite flimsy when up against he weight of the Canadian Legal system, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (as much as it falls well short of the American Constitution) and the standards and protocols of the Canadian Health System. Your concern is valid, but your leap to the end game of China’s organ harvesting dictatorship is delusional paranoia.
Canadian doctors are about as accountable as Canadian cops. Doctors investigating other doctors for malpractice, is about as effective as cops investigating cops for abuse. Your faith in the system is cute but unfortunately based entirely on wishful thinking.
The doctors will give family reasons to pull the plug, the family will believe and the one with POA will consent. There problem over. No investigation.
As for Andy’s delusions about ethics and oaths. Give me a break. They are already putting down people who are depressed because lockdown.
Your argument “this will give medical professionals an incentive to declare that your quality of life is zero and thus your organs should be better used by someone else” is hollow. You’ve listed the following reasons why a doctor would be incentivized to pull the plug on someone too early:
– “They [Doctors] are not concerned abut (sic) doing no harm, they are concerned about getting rich off Canadian taxpayers.”
– “They [Doctors] have no conscience, your health is an accidental bi-product of their job description.”
– ““Gratitude” from his colleague who will do the transplant.”
So your argument is that Doctors only care about wealth, they are all psychopaths that have no conscience, and they want thanks from their fellow Doctors for getting referrals. You are delusional. I completely understand the hesitation many people have on this site but the answer is to address these concerns by structuring the legal system to prevent overreach, not cancel the whole program because of a what-if scenario. We are talking about saving people’s lives who are dying needlessly young.
By the way, here is a list of the most trusted professions in 2020.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/01/11/americas-most-least-trusted-professions-infographic/?sh=c331b7c7e94e
We all agree that journalists deserve to be at the bottom but look who’s at the top. Doctors and Nurses. If you really believe the things you say about Doctors that puts you in a paranoid position to never trust anyone ever.
The problem is: do you trust the government, or you relatives?
Bingo. That pretty much sums it all.
As an aside, no wonder liberals support it, they tend to come from broken dysfunctional families. In their case, it may indeed make sense to trust the government more than their families, imagine having UnMe in your family …
SO …. ye old Book of the Month marketing technique has come to …. human organs in Nova Scotia.
Now if everybody was like me organ donations would collapse to zero.
Brad Wall wanted negative billing for organs as well.
You don’t own your car, your organs, nothing. Everything belongs to the government, and everyone you ever voted for worked towards that. Harper, Scheer, O’Toole, Ford, Wall, Moe, everyone, every where.
The solution is to double down, and donate even more time and money to the people and parties who have failed you. This time is different. Not anything like all those other times that were different.
Does anyone remember when pro-lifers and human rights activists who studied the goings-on in China warned people about this and they were ignored? Does anyone remember when they pleaded for people to elect MPs who would speak out and act against these things but people refused, instead opting for someone who might be fiscally conservative but wasn’t?
I do.
The culture (in this case, the culture of death, dependence and tyranny) is also reflected in the politics.
And here we are today.
The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions and these schemes are its proof. The State has become God, a giver and taker of life.
Judging from some of the comments above/below these people never experienced a bad government decision. Thalidomide anyone ?
Oh, they will experience a bad decision and they won’t have it any other way.
Welcome to Nova Scotia. You now have the same rights to property as firearms owners do.
The State doesn’t own your body just because you die.
Remember: Everything the State has acquired they stole.
“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.”
The State doesn’t own your body just because you die.
One thing I found out through the work I’ve done in settling my father’s estate is that the state hates it when someone dies. That’s one less source of tax revenue it can count on, so it takes out that hatred on the estate and the beneficiaries with all sorts of taxes and fees on the inheritance.
“But there is no inheritance tax,” you say. Oh, there is because I paid it. It’s just not called that. Besides, it gives Prinz Dummkopf, et. al., an excuse to inflict another tax on us for more money which he will fritter away like he has with what he and his gang of financial incompetents have received so far.
Well, make sure you die with a registered will. Another hint for married folk….joint accounts on everything. No probate for the survivors. That is very important. I was joint on my mother’s accounts, so I could monitor her accounts from a drilling rig I might be on, at any time, anywhere in the country. She had bad macular degeneration, played cards holding them 90 degrees from front and center. When she passed away some bankers had the gall to ask me why I was “joint” on her accounts, when I showed up to make the switch, armed with a Death Certificate. “Because I’m the new account holder when she passed away and her bills get paid through me, not 12 months later, after .gov takes their pound of flesh. What’s left over is mine”. All governed by her Will as well. Saved a huge Probate fee that benefited the Ontario Government, more than her beneficiaries. Be the Executor on someone’s estate sometime, a real learning experience on a lot of fronts.
Do I lose points on my Chinada Social Credit Score if I refuse to donate my gizzard or my other innards?
Will that affect how much money I receive from the Trudeau Great Reset/Guaranteed Basic Income scheme?
Astute statement Stan!
To quote Posie Parker: Fuck off! NO!!
That’s something that needs to be said to leftists a lot more, and punctuated with physical chastisement if they refuse to grasp the lesson.
Can obligatory blood ‘donations’ be far behind?
Do your patriotic duty to keep blood supplies from getting low! Or else!
I am assuming that all of you are aware that in order to be an organ donor you must be ALIVE when they harvest your organs. Not like in the very misleading CBC article were DEAD people donate organs. YOUR HEART has to be beating when they pull it out. Organ Donation is a huge emotional scam pushed by Doctors and the State Propagandists for PROFIT. Some Medical Ethicists have done studies that claim that even if you are unconscious, and in a dream state you know they are murdering you.
The NEW MAYANS.
Most Canadians Long Ago Donated their Testicles Their Backbones and their brains and now tug their forelocks and grovel for their crumbs from Master.
And if we witheld treatment you’d soon be dead and we get those lovely organs. This is not a good thing, especially as the state already has a monopoly.
So now they’ve taken ownership of our bodies, not surprised they’ve been forcing us to wear face masks for neigh on 8 months.
Nova Scotians who get their organs torn out while they’re still breathing—or even still conscious—can have the comfort of knowing that they will help a Chinaman go back to drinking like a fish, smoking like a chimney and—most important—eating like a whale.
The Chinese god of prosperity is depicted as so fat that had he been a real human he probably could not move.
In the new order, the only fat people your grandchildren will know are their Chinese landlords, moneylenders and tax collectors, come to demand their tribute or have their hired thugs beat you bloody in front of your neighbours if you can’t pay for your betters’ next twelve-course meals, washed down with enough rice spirit to kill a horse.
My organs are reaching their end of life. One would have to be desperate to reuse them.
Mine are “old”, too and contaminated with cancer cells. They’d still sell them. Betcha. Bets they end up in Chinah, too. I’ve got one “experienced” kidney. They’ll have to find a similar sized paring to do the deal. Pig will probably work.
“Used ah kidney, use a ony once, Chip.”
LR, mine as well. Even as a stop gab they would be pretty much a waste of time transplanting them.
Covered nicely in the movie “Never Let Me Go” https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1334260/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_25
based on the novel of the same name by Kazou Ishiguro. Truly one of the scariest stories I’ve ever read or watched.
“But if you’re dead, you don’t need your organs.”
If you’re dead, you don’t need your savings or property either.
Regarding the above comment, not so, the dying get some satisfaction knowing that their family get the savings and property. I know I do., (not that I am soon to be dead)
If they can rip your still-beating heart out of your chest without your prior, explicit consent, taking your assets will be child’s play, comparatively.
Well done, Kate, that “related” was my first thought also.
Paraphrasing:
“But I’m not done using it yet.”
“We say you are.”
As one who sat by the bedside of a loved one who was an organ donor, I have to say it was a life changing experience, and something I could not see myself ever doing again. It is the living who have to deal with the emotional trauma of the decision. There is a subtle pressure to “do the right thing” and donate your loved ones organs. As Watcher mentioned, your loved one is ALIVE when they do the surgery. Yes, their heart is still beating and their lungs are filling with air. Your loved one is still warm. I was assured that my loved one would feel no pain. The nurse from the organ donor clinic assured me that she would hold the hand of my loved one until the end. If my loved one had not made their wishes known, I could not have followed through with it and that is probably why the change of law. I have instructed my family that it is their choice what happens to my organs, because they are left to deal with the aftermath.
Thank you for your perspective. It’s not something I had considered in the general sense, and yet it should be.
Thank you MB you are so much more eloquent than I. People are so brainwashed with Disney feel good shit that they can no longer think and understand exactly what it means that the state can take your body parts. Is Nova Scotia no less a Pariah than China now. Damn their eyes.
Because it is a lot easier to loose your paper work than to produce it.
Gabriel Wortman was just a practice run.
Nova Scotia used to be a nice place to visit, before this. Wouldn’t want anything to happen to you when visiting, now.