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27 Replies to “Ontario Byelection Open Thread”
Total failure for Tim Hudack, that loser has to hit the road.
If you can’t win those ridings after all that has happened, you are a loser. And dumb.
SO Ontarians prefer thieves and liars and abuse
What a pathetic result. Ant chance Hudak recognises that it is time to go?
Should read: “Any” chance Hudak decides to go…
Now we get to listen to that hag gloat.
PC party fails and Ontario voiters are to dumb or too blind to see that the Liberal Party and NDP are really the same pile of shit, just a different stench.
Even though I do not live in Ontario it is clear that Hudack needs to be sent packing. His so-called performance during the last provincial election was pathetic and nothing has changed. When it is clear to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that the ruling Liberals are a pack of liars and thieves and yet they continue to get elected, this confirms that the Ontario PC Party needs a new leader and a make-over.
And Doug Holyday won probably because of local politics, not anything in particular Hudak lent to the cause. The only bright light this night is that Holyday’s election is a kick in the goolies to the latte-sippers in the Annex.
I was hoping Al Gretzky would do better, I noticed the main stram media went out of there way not to mention London West during the past month.
Our ON Tory’s are as weak as the GOP is.
We’re rooting for a Texas break out ;).
This should be the last sign (in a mighty long string of them) that Tim Hudak is ineffective. He will not leave willingly. We must retire him before Ontatio becomes Manitoba.
Well, putting aside the hyperbole, and all that, the popular vote numbers (in these five Liberal-held ridings — held by at least two former ministers and a former premier) look like this (PC-Lib-NDP vote share; does not include inconsequential also-rans at all):
PC 35.6%
Lib 31.1%
NDP 33.3%
which includes the 9,300 vote win (over the PCs, who were first or second in all ridings) for the NDP in Windsor-Tecumseh. That would tend to confirm the numbers at http://www.threehundredeight.com (which might well underestimate PC support in a general election, based on these results). Mike Harris won London West twice, and maybe Scarborough-Guildwood was Stephen Gilchrest’s riding, or something, but the other two — Ottawa South and Windsor-Tecumseh were strictly off-limits to the Tories, even under Mike.
And I’d say a great win for Ford Nation in Etobicoke-Lakeshore (the wall has been breached).
So, it’s shaping up to be a fall election (later, really, than I had expected), but one that desperately needs to happen. Andrea, God love her, is in a really tough spot now: she skunked Dwight Dumpling’s outfit (much deserved), so she can’t really carry on with the pretense that she’s “getting things done for people” (car insurance; are you kidding me? That’s a Bob Rae stunt, for crying out loud), by continuing to support dead meat. And I’m sure that Ms. Sattler is a nice, earnest, social-crusading lady and all that (she reminds me of Marion Boyd — of Karla Homolka fame — quite a lot), but Andrea’s alleged victory is purely pyrrhic.
(As an aside, what about Ms. Wynne’s spectacle at Mitzie Hunter’s place? Obviously they’re hunkering down to defend the fortress, which will never work.)
So, I’d say we’re nicely on track for a high Conservative minority or small majority, and all the good things that will come from that. So, let’s get on with it, please.
So, I’d say we’re nicely on track for a high Conservative minority or small majority
I’d say you had been on crack for the last few PC kicks at the can and are about to get stuffed with crow. and all the good things that will come from that.
AHAHAHAHAhAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Libertarian (definition): “I want the Liberals and Democrats to win.”
Conservative (definition): I don’t know what a libertarian is or what the hell I want.
Grunt, grunt, Grunt. Blah, blah, blah. All we hear from you is what a terrible candidate Stephen Harper is, and what a terrible candidate Tim Hudak is and what a terrible candidate Mitt Romney was. A fat lot of good that approach has done anybody.
The central issue that Ontario needs to get its collective head around is the state of its public finances: we spend too much, we are too far in debt, we have large and growing unfunded public-sector pension liabilities, we have no way to pay for any of that (given the decline of the auto industry and the trading relationship with the United States), and Detroit is just across the River. And while Ms. Horwath is easier to look at than Ms. Wynne, they’re equally unserious about any of this stuff. And while Hudak may not be everybody’s cuppa’, he’s the only one talking about this stuff. So, to the extent that you don’t get that, that’s your problem, not mine.
But, just for fun, I looked up the results from the 2011 election and found the following popular vote shares (PC-Lib-NDP, again ignoring the inconsequentials) in the by-election ridings (actually, Etobicoke-Lakeshore was also formerly held by a minister, as well):
2011 followed by 2013
PC 29.8% 35.6%
Lib 49.5% 31.1%
NDP 21.1% 33.3%
And when you consider that the NDP got 69% of their votes last night from two university- and health-care town ridings, it’s not so clear to me where their strength is going to come from. And, further, if you projected these result changes onto the whole province (as imperfect a measure as this approach is), you might think, as I do, that the Conservatives are is a decent spot.
So what’s Andrea gonna do? Well, I know what she would have done if Hudak had pulled three, four, or five out of the bag last night: three years from now, when she allowed us to go to the polls, we’d be three more tax, spend and borrow years of collusion closer to the cliff. IMO, she gains no credibility from carrying on her little charade any longer. So, she might as well face reality, and take her knocks like Ms. Wynne is going to — and she’ll end up as leader of the opposition. That’s her best case, IMO.
So,David Southam, you are content with a less than 6% swing to the PCs in a set of bye-elections at a time when the sitting government is sunk in corruption and incompetence? At the same time, the NDP has a positive swing of over 12%. The party took one seat out of five, and that appears to be due more to the local popularity and organization of Mr Holyday. It doesn’t appear that a Blue Wave is building to sweep away the toxic Red Tide.
It could be that the PCs need a real man in charge. Where’s Christine Elliott?
With all due respect Mr Southam, winning one seat out of five is simply not good enough no matter how you look at it. While Hudak may very well be a nice fellow he clearly does not inspire folks to believe in his ideas. My wife puts it best when she says he reminds her of an overly earnest boy she knew back in high school that could never get a date. Nice guy but he has about as much charisma as a small soap dish.
Mr. Hudak is a doofus. I’ve met him, that’s my impression. Just one more glad handing Toronto lawyer who eats kittens in his spare time. (Lawsuit minded individuals will please note this is a literary device called hyperbole, not an actual accusation.)
For the PCs to have lost this many by-elections in this climate indicates two things. First, the PCs are completely invisible on the public stage here. Beyond the odd TV add or radio spot, they’re silent. I don’t listen to radio or TV, so I never see anything from them.
Second, that fact is Tim Hudak’s fault. He’s the leader, he sets the agenda. To date, he has seized defeat from the jaws of victory TWICE. His party is moribund and fat, winning elections is not what they are about. They sit in Queens Park opposition and collect their salary content to not rock the boat.
Unless Kathleen Wynn has a gay orgy on the front steps of Parliament and then drowns a bag of puppies while smoking crack, all televised, the Liberals will win another minority and the NDPee will take more seats.
Write Tim Hudak calling for him to step down as “leader” (sic) of the Conservative Party of Ontario.
I just did. http://timhudakmpp.com/contact-tim/
I’ve been quite vocal in my criticisms of Tim “Who-dat?”, but really: Just one more glad handing Toronto lawyer WTF??!?
He’s from Niagara Falls, not Toronto.
He has an economics degree, not a law degree.
He doesn’t fit my image of a glad handler (although I’d be willing to admit he probably tries to be one).
While I hold no brief for Timmers, he does have to fight two other parties AND the ETFO AND Working Families. The
latter two spent millions on TV ads – unregulated, of course, because they didn’t explicitly support the Liberals –
slamming Tory policies.
I put the Tories failure squarely on their campaign managers – specifically, their TV and radio ads, which is where the bulk
of their money is spent. Their ads, sneering at McGuinty and now Lose.. er, Wynn.. may seem great to the already committed, but
to anyone else, they seem mean, snarky, and cruel. Hell, I’m a dyed in the wool conservative, and I don’t like them.
They need a gentler approach on their ads – not in Queen’s Park! – that casts them as a POSITIVE choice, not just “we’re better
than the Liberal scum”. How about a woman sitting on a park bench, watching her children play, and saying “I’m worried – Detroit just went bankrupt, and the Liberals in Ontario are following exactly the same policies. Can we afford public unions where people can retire with full pensions at 55? How can we pay for my childrens’ education and health care?” It’s a given that 99% of public employees aren’t going to vote Tory; they have to start wooing the wishy-washy lefties with the idea that the hard core lefties are going to bankrupt all of us, and ruin all their social programs.
All we hear from you is what a terrible candidate Stephen Harper is, and what a terrible candidate Tim Hudak is and what a terrible candidate Mitt Romney was. A fat lot of good that approach has done anybody.
I’m so sorry for calling it correctly. Wait, how is it ‘my approach’ when your favored candidates fail? Oh right that’s called ‘shifting the blame’. Seems to be all Cons are good for lately.
Hudak is never gonna be premier. Even if he was, it wouldn’t matter he’s not going to change anything. Hudak isn’t even the main problem, it’s the PCs. They are useless. Harris was an aberration. Voting OPC is the worst most dangerous thing you can do.
I am a resident of Ontario in fact Ottawa to be exact.
We get the government and mismanagement we elect. I know many residents of Ottawa South and every one of them claims they never voted for McGuinty nor the current MPP. Weird. But to let everyone know about Ottawa South the fact is it is an amalgamation of typical liberal thinking. Jam every immigrant you can into a riding and then expect payback. Yeah, there are affluent areas of the riding that doesn’t fit this profile but we all know why they keep winning. Paying it forward.
I helped canvass for Holyday and many people spoke of their dislike of Hudak but liked the CP’s platform. It doesn’t matter who leads the Lieberals as the public unions, welfare recipients and those dependant on government in Ontario will vote for them anyway. The Conservatives must have a solid leader like Mike Harris and an excellent platform to win in Ontario’s large cities. In the last Ontario election a great many Conservative supporters didn’t bother to vote to show their displeasure with Hudak as I saw when enumerating my riding.
If people didn’t vote for Hudak’s Conservatives because they don’t like him, then please someone, please explain to me why they voted for Wynne’s Lieberals?
If Ontario voters wanted a change in govt they would vote for anyone but a Liberal candidate.
Obviously the gas plant scandal means nothing to them, nor the Liberal sex grooming education for school children, which is as important to me.
They are vile, but a red is a red I have found: faithful unto death.
I’ve been one of Hudak’s harshest detractors – Lord knows he isn’t very inspirational.
But he’s not a rotten liar like McDinky, and he’s not dishonest like Wynne, and he’s not a commie like Horvath. So it boggles my mind when we get election results like this.
And to those who say “I could never bring myself to vote for Hudak”, I’ll repeat a little story.
There was once a little choir-boy who was being regularly abused by his clergyman. He didn’t like it one little bit, and he complained long and bitterly to his friends about his sufferings. One of his buddies offered him a chance to escape the abuse by pointing out that a brand new church had just opened up the street, and the reverend in that church was looking for new choir-members. “No way” said the choirboy, “I’ve seen that new fellow, and I can’t say I like the looks of him.”
It comes down to this: anyone with a grain of concern for the future would vote for a dead skunk before voting for Wynne or Horvath.
Hudak has to be more pro active. I live in west London, and heard him on local radio a week ago. He refused to get in to the scandals that have happened under Mcstunder he did not have a resounding message. He kept saying they were the better party for jobs and the economy nothing else. Who is advising him??? He should have (from the beginning of all this) go for the jugular nothing else. I wonder if he has the aptitude to really get the message out, he always seems to sit back and want to be seen as the gentleman and not able to get in the trenches. HIs reputation has already been established by the other parties so he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by being more aggressive.
When I wrote Hudak today to tell him to step aside so the Conservative Party of Ontario could elect another leader, I castigated him for not commenting on the many Liberal scandals, one of the latest being former Deputy Minister of Education, Benjamin Levin’s, being charged and arrested for seven counts of involvement in child pornography.
Now’s not the time for Hudak or his party to be diffident. Unfortunately, Hudak’s a Timid Timmy who appears to be taking Ontario nowhere except into the arms of the Lieberal$. I often wonder what he does for the pay he’s getting from Ontario taxpayers and if he just enjoys the perks of being a party leader.
Total failure for Tim Hudack, that loser has to hit the road.
If you can’t win those ridings after all that has happened, you are a loser. And dumb.
SO Ontarians prefer thieves and liars and abuse
What a pathetic result. Ant chance Hudak recognises that it is time to go?
Should read: “Any” chance Hudak decides to go…
Now we get to listen to that hag gloat.
PC party fails and Ontario voiters are to dumb or too blind to see that the Liberal Party and NDP are really the same pile of shit, just a different stench.
Even though I do not live in Ontario it is clear that Hudack needs to be sent packing. His so-called performance during the last provincial election was pathetic and nothing has changed. When it is clear to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that the ruling Liberals are a pack of liars and thieves and yet they continue to get elected, this confirms that the Ontario PC Party needs a new leader and a make-over.
And Doug Holyday won probably because of local politics, not anything in particular Hudak lent to the cause. The only bright light this night is that Holyday’s election is a kick in the goolies to the latte-sippers in the Annex.
I was hoping Al Gretzky would do better, I noticed the main stram media went out of there way not to mention London West during the past month.
Our ON Tory’s are as weak as the GOP is.
We’re rooting for a Texas break out ;).
This should be the last sign (in a mighty long string of them) that Tim Hudak is ineffective. He will not leave willingly. We must retire him before Ontatio becomes Manitoba.
Well, putting aside the hyperbole, and all that, the popular vote numbers (in these five Liberal-held ridings — held by at least two former ministers and a former premier) look like this (PC-Lib-NDP vote share; does not include inconsequential also-rans at all):
PC 35.6%
Lib 31.1%
NDP 33.3%
which includes the 9,300 vote win (over the PCs, who were first or second in all ridings) for the NDP in Windsor-Tecumseh. That would tend to confirm the numbers at http://www.threehundredeight.com (which might well underestimate PC support in a general election, based on these results). Mike Harris won London West twice, and maybe Scarborough-Guildwood was Stephen Gilchrest’s riding, or something, but the other two — Ottawa South and Windsor-Tecumseh were strictly off-limits to the Tories, even under Mike.
And I’d say a great win for Ford Nation in Etobicoke-Lakeshore (the wall has been breached).
So, it’s shaping up to be a fall election (later, really, than I had expected), but one that desperately needs to happen. Andrea, God love her, is in a really tough spot now: she skunked Dwight Dumpling’s outfit (much deserved), so she can’t really carry on with the pretense that she’s “getting things done for people” (car insurance; are you kidding me? That’s a Bob Rae stunt, for crying out loud), by continuing to support dead meat. And I’m sure that Ms. Sattler is a nice, earnest, social-crusading lady and all that (she reminds me of Marion Boyd — of Karla Homolka fame — quite a lot), but Andrea’s alleged victory is purely pyrrhic.
(As an aside, what about Ms. Wynne’s spectacle at Mitzie Hunter’s place? Obviously they’re hunkering down to defend the fortress, which will never work.)
So, I’d say we’re nicely on track for a high Conservative minority or small majority, and all the good things that will come from that. So, let’s get on with it, please.
So, I’d say we’re nicely on track for a high Conservative minority or small majority
I’d say you had been on crack for the last few PC kicks at the can and are about to get stuffed with crow.
and all the good things that will come from that.
AHAHAHAHAhAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Libertarian (definition): “I want the Liberals and Democrats to win.”
Conservative (definition): I don’t know what a libertarian is or what the hell I want.
Grunt, grunt, Grunt. Blah, blah, blah. All we hear from you is what a terrible candidate Stephen Harper is, and what a terrible candidate Tim Hudak is and what a terrible candidate Mitt Romney was. A fat lot of good that approach has done anybody.
The central issue that Ontario needs to get its collective head around is the state of its public finances: we spend too much, we are too far in debt, we have large and growing unfunded public-sector pension liabilities, we have no way to pay for any of that (given the decline of the auto industry and the trading relationship with the United States), and Detroit is just across the River. And while Ms. Horwath is easier to look at than Ms. Wynne, they’re equally unserious about any of this stuff. And while Hudak may not be everybody’s cuppa’, he’s the only one talking about this stuff. So, to the extent that you don’t get that, that’s your problem, not mine.
But, just for fun, I looked up the results from the 2011 election and found the following popular vote shares (PC-Lib-NDP, again ignoring the inconsequentials) in the by-election ridings (actually, Etobicoke-Lakeshore was also formerly held by a minister, as well):
2011 followed by 2013
PC 29.8% 35.6%
Lib 49.5% 31.1%
NDP 21.1% 33.3%
And when you consider that the NDP got 69% of their votes last night from two university- and health-care town ridings, it’s not so clear to me where their strength is going to come from. And, further, if you projected these result changes onto the whole province (as imperfect a measure as this approach is), you might think, as I do, that the Conservatives are is a decent spot.
So what’s Andrea gonna do? Well, I know what she would have done if Hudak had pulled three, four, or five out of the bag last night: three years from now, when she allowed us to go to the polls, we’d be three more tax, spend and borrow years of collusion closer to the cliff. IMO, she gains no credibility from carrying on her little charade any longer. So, she might as well face reality, and take her knocks like Ms. Wynne is going to — and she’ll end up as leader of the opposition. That’s her best case, IMO.
So,David Southam, you are content with a less than 6% swing to the PCs in a set of bye-elections at a time when the sitting government is sunk in corruption and incompetence? At the same time, the NDP has a positive swing of over 12%. The party took one seat out of five, and that appears to be due more to the local popularity and organization of Mr Holyday. It doesn’t appear that a Blue Wave is building to sweep away the toxic Red Tide.
It could be that the PCs need a real man in charge. Where’s Christine Elliott?
With all due respect Mr Southam, winning one seat out of five is simply not good enough no matter how you look at it. While Hudak may very well be a nice fellow he clearly does not inspire folks to believe in his ideas. My wife puts it best when she says he reminds her of an overly earnest boy she knew back in high school that could never get a date. Nice guy but he has about as much charisma as a small soap dish.
Mr. Hudak is a doofus. I’ve met him, that’s my impression. Just one more glad handing Toronto lawyer who eats kittens in his spare time. (Lawsuit minded individuals will please note this is a literary device called hyperbole, not an actual accusation.)
For the PCs to have lost this many by-elections in this climate indicates two things. First, the PCs are completely invisible on the public stage here. Beyond the odd TV add or radio spot, they’re silent. I don’t listen to radio or TV, so I never see anything from them.
Second, that fact is Tim Hudak’s fault. He’s the leader, he sets the agenda. To date, he has seized defeat from the jaws of victory TWICE. His party is moribund and fat, winning elections is not what they are about. They sit in Queens Park opposition and collect their salary content to not rock the boat.
Unless Kathleen Wynn has a gay orgy on the front steps of Parliament and then drowns a bag of puppies while smoking crack, all televised, the Liberals will win another minority and the NDPee will take more seats.
Write Tim Hudak calling for him to step down as “leader” (sic) of the Conservative Party of Ontario.
I just did.
http://timhudakmpp.com/contact-tim/
I’ve been quite vocal in my criticisms of Tim “Who-dat?”, but really:
Just one more glad handing Toronto lawyer WTF??!?
He’s from Niagara Falls, not Toronto.
He has an economics degree, not a law degree.
He doesn’t fit my image of a glad handler (although I’d be willing to admit he probably tries to be one).
While I hold no brief for Timmers, he does have to fight two other parties AND the ETFO AND Working Families. The
latter two spent millions on TV ads – unregulated, of course, because they didn’t explicitly support the Liberals –
slamming Tory policies.
I put the Tories failure squarely on their campaign managers – specifically, their TV and radio ads, which is where the bulk
of their money is spent. Their ads, sneering at McGuinty and now Lose.. er, Wynn.. may seem great to the already committed, but
to anyone else, they seem mean, snarky, and cruel. Hell, I’m a dyed in the wool conservative, and I don’t like them.
They need a gentler approach on their ads – not in Queen’s Park! – that casts them as a POSITIVE choice, not just “we’re better
than the Liberal scum”. How about a woman sitting on a park bench, watching her children play, and saying “I’m worried – Detroit just went bankrupt, and the Liberals in Ontario are following exactly the same policies. Can we afford public unions where people can retire with full pensions at 55? How can we pay for my childrens’ education and health care?” It’s a given that 99% of public employees aren’t going to vote Tory; they have to start wooing the wishy-washy lefties with the idea that the hard core lefties are going to bankrupt all of us, and ruin all their social programs.
All we hear from you is what a terrible candidate Stephen Harper is, and what a terrible candidate Tim Hudak is and what a terrible candidate Mitt Romney was. A fat lot of good that approach has done anybody.
I’m so sorry for calling it correctly. Wait, how is it ‘my approach’ when your favored candidates fail? Oh right that’s called ‘shifting the blame’. Seems to be all Cons are good for lately.
Hudak is never gonna be premier. Even if he was, it wouldn’t matter he’s not going to change anything. Hudak isn’t even the main problem, it’s the PCs. They are useless. Harris was an aberration. Voting OPC is the worst most dangerous thing you can do.
I am a resident of Ontario in fact Ottawa to be exact.
We get the government and mismanagement we elect. I know many residents of Ottawa South and every one of them claims they never voted for McGuinty nor the current MPP. Weird. But to let everyone know about Ottawa South the fact is it is an amalgamation of typical liberal thinking. Jam every immigrant you can into a riding and then expect payback. Yeah, there are affluent areas of the riding that doesn’t fit this profile but we all know why they keep winning. Paying it forward.
I helped canvass for Holyday and many people spoke of their dislike of Hudak but liked the CP’s platform. It doesn’t matter who leads the Lieberals as the public unions, welfare recipients and those dependant on government in Ontario will vote for them anyway. The Conservatives must have a solid leader like Mike Harris and an excellent platform to win in Ontario’s large cities. In the last Ontario election a great many Conservative supporters didn’t bother to vote to show their displeasure with Hudak as I saw when enumerating my riding.
If people didn’t vote for Hudak’s Conservatives because they don’t like him, then please someone, please explain to me why they voted for Wynne’s Lieberals?
If Ontario voters wanted a change in govt they would vote for anyone but a Liberal candidate.
Obviously the gas plant scandal means nothing to them, nor the Liberal sex grooming education for school children, which is as important to me.
They are vile, but a red is a red I have found: faithful unto death.
I’ve been one of Hudak’s harshest detractors – Lord knows he isn’t very inspirational.
But he’s not a rotten liar like McDinky, and he’s not dishonest like Wynne, and he’s not a commie like Horvath. So it boggles my mind when we get election results like this.
And to those who say “I could never bring myself to vote for Hudak”, I’ll repeat a little story.
There was once a little choir-boy who was being regularly abused by his clergyman. He didn’t like it one little bit, and he complained long and bitterly to his friends about his sufferings. One of his buddies offered him a chance to escape the abuse by pointing out that a brand new church had just opened up the street, and the reverend in that church was looking for new choir-members. “No way” said the choirboy, “I’ve seen that new fellow, and I can’t say I like the looks of him.”
It comes down to this: anyone with a grain of concern for the future would vote for a dead skunk before voting for Wynne or Horvath.
Hudak has to be more pro active. I live in west London, and heard him on local radio a week ago. He refused to get in to the scandals that have happened under Mcstunder he did not have a resounding message. He kept saying they were the better party for jobs and the economy nothing else. Who is advising him??? He should have (from the beginning of all this) go for the jugular nothing else. I wonder if he has the aptitude to really get the message out, he always seems to sit back and want to be seen as the gentleman and not able to get in the trenches. HIs reputation has already been established by the other parties so he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by being more aggressive.
When I wrote Hudak today to tell him to step aside so the Conservative Party of Ontario could elect another leader, I castigated him for not commenting on the many Liberal scandals, one of the latest being former Deputy Minister of Education, Benjamin Levin’s, being charged and arrested for seven counts of involvement in child pornography.
Now’s not the time for Hudak or his party to be diffident. Unfortunately, Hudak’s a Timid Timmy who appears to be taking Ontario nowhere except into the arms of the Lieberal$. I often wonder what he does for the pay he’s getting from Ontario taxpayers and if he just enjoys the perks of being a party leader.