Q: He’ll be prosecuted?
Binney: First tortured, then maybe even rendered and tortured and then incarcerated and then tried and incarcerated or even executed.
[…]
Drake: But see, I am Exhibit No. 1. …You know, I was charged with 10 felony counts. I was facing 35 years in prison. This is how far the state will go to punish you out of retaliation and reprisal and retribution. … My life has been changed. It’s been turned inside, upside down. I lived on the blunt end of the surveillance bubble. … When you are faced essentially with the rest of your life in prison, you really begin to understand and appreciate more so than I ever have — in terms of four times I took the oath to support the Constitution — what those rights and freedoms really mean. …
Believe me, they are going to put everything they have got to get him. I think there really is a risk. There is a risk he will eventually be pulled off the street.
Q: What do you mean?
Drake: Well, fear of rendition. There is going to be a team sent in.
Read it all (beware annoying auto-play vid)
So…brave whistleblowers on Benghazi, and now this.
Is there a collective shiver going thru Americans spines? Or are they spineless?
When will they impeach Obama?
William Binney is not a “whistle blower”. He is basically a jackass. He spent 10 years developing something and NSA chose to use a rival project, he threw a tantrum and for the past 12 years has been attempting to do anything he can to damage NSA in revenge. Every time there is any controversy, he pops up out of the woodwork. He knows nothing about PRISM, it wasn’t even thought of until some 7 years after he left. I don’t believe a word he says. These are people who have thrown away their careers and are basically trying to earn a living off this.
The only thing Snowden has “exposed” WRT anything to do with citizens is that FBI requested phone bill data from Verizon and asked for it to be delivered to NSA, presumably because NSA has some way of processing that to provide FBI with what they are looking for. FBI *does* have the authority to snoop on citizen communications. For NSA to do it, it would have to authorized by or directed by FBI.
I am not as familiar with the other two but I would not believe a word out of Binney’s mouth. He is making it up as he goes along.
the only thing Snowden has “exposed” WRT anything to do with citizens is that FBI requested phone bill data from Verizon and asked for it to be delivered to NSA
And you know the massive surveillance project you’re omitting.
Next on Surveillance State Apologists: why Snowden is really a ‘traitor’.
This whole thing smacks of Animal House to me. You’re on double super secret probation or something, Snowden. This country doesn’t need enemies, it’s being systematically destroyed by Washington, DC. You read the Constitution, the words are plain, the meaning equally so. Yet somehow everything that is clearly reserved to the states has massive Federal involvement. Secret courts? Lubyanka, I mean Gitmo? I am disgusted by what my country has become.
Wow Crosspatch … just wow … so now it’s ok to basically be given a secret warrant to wiretap the world, including your own citizens. Nice try at using the “personal destruction” method too … too bad that that standard practice by statists and apologists for the mega-state just doesn’t work that well anymore.
Let me guess, it’s all for our own good right … just in case some pot smoking losers from Chechnya get it in their heads to blow up a bunch of innocent people; we need to store each and every bite of information between you and your doctor or your lover or your Game of Thrones contacts. Ha ha … and they still missed the pot smoking losers.
As well, let’s just trust the state that uses the IRS, EPA, Dept. of Labor, and ATF to persecute its political opponents.
But what the hell, Binney is a loser, so let’s just toss out the concept of protection of the individual from search and seizure without a warrant … but oops, I guess they did get their warrant; to seize everything and anything they want from any source at anytime as long as it is digital …for now.
Thank you.Is this the same program I heard about, maybe 15 years ago in Canada? I have forgotten the code name. I remember that it picked key words out of any kind of communication, and then tracked it back to the caller/receiver, and then was able to check the calling history of the “suspect”. It has been with us for a long time folks. I was skyping with a friend on the other side of the country and on purpose i mentioned a tracking word just for fun, and i am sure some switch turned on and tracked me.
crosspatch said: “FBI *does* have the authority to snoop on citizen communications.”
No they don’t. The FBI, like all police forces, is supposed to require a warrant to do wiretaps.
What Snowden revealed is that the NSA is archiving virtually all internet transactions, all phone-call metadata, all texts, all emails, from -everybody- in the USA. Also Canada, England and Europe. All of it. And they are keyword scanning it. No warrants, no oversight, no f- all. Also that they are doing more than that, we just don’t know exactly what. I assume they decrypt and archive every packet.
Snowden has revealed that the US intelligence services have gone entirely rouge. Those services are no longer an asset to the United States, they are an active threat to the United States and its citizens. As are those of most Western countries now. We knew most of that before a lot of it from the three men interviewed here. What’s changed is that now the media can no longer ignore it or pretend it isn’t a big deal. Its the biggest Big Deal since the Cuban Missile Crisis, you ask me.
What he -hasn’t- done is name any names. So in that regard, I doubt Big Brother Barry’s minions will send a SEAL team to bag or frag Snowden in the middle of Iceland or Hong Kong. It would look really bad if he has an “accident” right now, or disappears without trace.
If he starts releasing proof that the NSA hacked the Chicoms though, or maybe that they hacked the world’s stock exchanges? That might be different. Then he might vanish and never be seen again.
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
There is a much larger implication here which the MSM seems to be deliberately overlooking. All of this was and is being collected in the name of national security. It is inevitable that it will be used for other purposes not connnected with national security. How long before some group succeeds in influencing the justice system to go after, say, child porn, cigarette smuggling, or any of a host of other “crimes de jour”?
The reason that the state is never allowed such information is that the state is never to be trusted with it. It will always end up using it for purposes most of us ultimately will not accept.
So yes, I’m going to say it loud and clear: avoiding terrorist bombs is not worth this violation by the state of personal privacy.
No names that we are informed of.However I was amused when he went missing from Hong Kong. How does that happen when NSA knows everything. Lol
Well said Cjunk, Phantom and cgh. And Cgh, particularly for this, “So yes, I’m going to say it loud and clear: avoiding terrorist bombs is not worth this violation by the state of personal privacy.”
It does appear that the US has its own form of the East German Stasi with banks of information on its and foreign friendly nation citizens. The other soviet states had similar data banks.
Q: Would it make a difference if contractors weren’t used?
Wiebe: I don’t think so…We undergo clearance checks, background investigations that are extensive….
Snowden basically pulled his clearance from a crackerjack box.
I remain unconvinced that the wrong culture has evolved in the NSA.
This is as good as it gets. Thanks cjunk.
I am reminded of the quote of George Washington that “government is a dangerous servant and a fearsome master.”
This is why a free press and free speech and free public discussion is so vital to a free and democratic state.
We, in Canada, will again have to relate to these questions via our American cousins. For us it’s section 8 of the Charter, a paler copy of theirs.
The next move is to ask for the resignations or prosecution of any politician or individual who was required to take an oath to uphold the US constitution as a condition of their job. They were clearly in violation of the 4th Amendment at the very least but the existence of secret courts is something one expects in totalitarian dictatorships, not a constitutional democracy.
What struck me about the political response to the events of 11/9/2011 was the depths of totalitarianism that were exposed in the reactions of politicians in the first few days after the event. In the same way that one can use a large earthquake to study the makeup of the earth’s core, this event was a sufficiently large perturbation to show us briefly the inner totalitarians of a good portion of politicians that just paid lip service to an inconvenient 200 year old document.
What Snowdon did was heroic and in the finest tradition of American revolutionary thought. How ironic that he has to seek political asylum first with the Chicoms and then in Russia; a country that is now far more capitalist than the US.
El Al airline is a safe airline because it does the kind of screening that Binney is talking about. I didn’t see it in the transcript, but in the video Binney suggested tracking only Jihadists and use 2 degree screening. Making refinements when necessary but not going after everyone.
Have you ever wondered why everyone gets caught in the screening dragnet at airports. I used to think it was for political correctness but now I wonder if it isn’t to justify the collection of all data to be used against one when expedient — maybe for political blackmail.
But, but,… the constitution evolves… it must be interpreted (by the State, obviously).. so as to making us (the State) able to protect you… for your own good… in secret, for sure, because otherwise there could be misunderstandings…
“What Snowdon did was heroic and in the finest tradition of American revolutionary thought.”
Yes.
The US has wandered very far indeed from the path of Sam Adams and Thomas Paine.
But all this data doesn’t seem to help them stop terrorists, although it does appear handy to dig up emails between a married General and his girlfriend.
All this “collection” of personal data reminds me of a very similiar thing here in Canuckistan. And yet,just like our leftarded gun registry,neither the NSA,FBI,CIA,can point to ONE crime solved or prevented using all this stolen info.
– But Alex Jones is the crazy one for warning about NSA snooping when the whistle blowers contacted him years ago ?
This really pisses me off, especially after the FBI, EPA, ATF and the IRS get caught targeting Tea Party Groups in an election year and now this NSA deal. But yet, Big Gov’t says they can be trusted with this info. BS, Team Obama has already shown us what they will do. And now, with our own Republican Senators pushing ‘Amnesty’, thereby; just handing over the country to the Democrats, because obviously they seem to miss the fact that Illegal Mexicans BLOC-Vote Democrat. If I didn’t know better it’s as though the Liberals want a Civil War.
The best thing to come of this, for me personally anyway, is to reveal who the hypocrites in our midst are. You know, the ones who trumpet personal liberty only for political gain. This separates the hidden authoritarians from the true libertarians.
I should add another thing that I find very amusing. Watching this administration bluster impotently at China and Russia because they would not hand him over. What a sad bunch of fools. Watch as mighty Equador says no as well. They have nothing to fear from these empty suits. Mind you, some country will feel the effects of their attempts to change focus. Might be Syria, might be Pakistan, might be Canada? But you know they will try anything other than what they should be doing.
Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and others have kept close tabs and files on the citizens of the countries they ruled for the greater good and for the safety of the citizens. Targeting Tea Party people and Christian groups shows the true intent of this administration. NSA keeps good company, not. Fortunately some of the operatives think this is not right.
Andrew McCarthy demolished that misreading of the Fourth Amendment over a week ago.
http://nationalreview.com/article/350799/rand-pauls-heres-crime-act-andrew-c-mccarthy
See also:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/350546/what-private-what-not-andrew-c-mccarthy
A lot of you mooks are posting Libtard levels of ignorance and idiocy.
McCarthy indicates that electronic communications do not deserve the same protections afforded written communications. The small problem with this is that the writers of the constitution did not know then about the future existence of such. Over the years, the SC has wisely interpreted otherwise. McCarthy demolished nothing, demonstrating merely that the SC had neither time nor patience with his sort of devious hair-splitting. And nor should we.
And let’s not forget, McCarthy is a prosecutor. It’s in his vested interest to have individual rights as heavily restricted as possible. So the mook here is you, Rogue, for defending just another nasty little fascist.
Try moving your lips when you read these excerpts from the first link, which you obviously did not read very well, if at all. It may – repeat, may – help you:
‘Naturally, the bill is unacquainted with the Fourth Amendment — either the one given to us by the Framers or even the one enlarged over time by Supreme Court jurisprudence. I use the word “naturally” advisedly. Senator Paul’s proposed law asserts: “The collection of citizen’s [ACM: I take it he means citizens’] phone records is a violation of the natural rights of every man and woman in the United States.” A citizen’s “natural right” to telephone-usage records that are actually the property of third-party service providers? I wonder what Saint Augustine would have made of that.’
‘Not content to contort natural law, Paul then works his magic on positive law. He alleges that collection of records of telephone activity (but not the content of phone conversations) is somehow “a clear violation of the explicit language of the highest law of the land.”’
‘By “highest law of the land,” Paul is referring to the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment. The senator apparently did not read the Fourth Amendment before cutting and pasting it into his bill. It requires (in relevant part) that “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, shall not be violated.” Perhaps Senator Paul will edify us on how it is “clear” that a phone record, owned and possessed by a telephone service provider (not the customer), qualifies as the person, house, paper, or effect of the customer, such that the government’s acquisition of it violates the Fourth Amendment. The federal courts have consistently, emphatically rejected this implausible suggestion, holding that government’s collection of phone records does not even implicate the Fourth Amendment, much less violate it.’
‘In last year’s United States v. Jones decision, Justice Scalia explained (not for the first time) that the animating idea behind the original Fourth Amendment is protection of personal property. The Constitution was not deemed to be violated absent some form of government trespass. That is why, under the Fourth Amendment as originally understood, it would be a violation for police, without a valid judicial warrant, to attach a GPS tracker to a person’s car and monitor his movements (the situation in the Jones case). On the other hand, it would not be a violation to wiretap a person’s conversations by physically attaching a monitoring device to the phone company’s line on a public street, without any entry into the person’s home or trespass on his property. (See Olmstead v. United States [1928].)
‘This changed because the Supreme Court deviated from the original Fourth Amendment’s bright-line focus on the physical person and his property to embrace the vague concept of “reasonable expectation of privacy.” The original Fourth Amendment preserved the proper constitutional order: It instructs us on what the government must protect, while the people’s representatives in Congress are free to enact additional safeguards beyond this irreducible constitutional guarantee. By contrast, were we to rewrite the Fourth Amendment consistent with its modern understanding — assuming the written word means anything when we could evolve again at any moment — it would say: “The right of the people to be secure in whatever expectations of privacy we judges think are reasonable shall not be violated.”
‘Unfortunately for Senator Paul, even this new Fourth Amendment that progressives have erected on the remains of the original one has never protected third-party business records. That, in particular, includes “metadata” — customer telephone activity (not the content of conversations, but numbers dialed, time and duration of calls, etc.), records of which are maintained by service providers.
‘To give such third-party business records constitutional status, Senator Paul would have to get the judges to invent a newer, more expansive Fourth Amendment. So could we please drop the bunkum about how Senator Paul and his anti-government followers are “constitutional conservatives” crusading to “restore” the Fourth Amendment? If Senator Paul were actually trying to “restore” the Fourth Amendment, he’d be calling not for phone-usage records to be shielded from government but for phone conversations to be more easily monitored by government.’
Please stop embarassing yourselves, and other conservatives who actually understand the written word and precedent. You know, the basis of conservative principles.
It’s simply McCarthy’s self-justifying rubbish. The SC disagreed with him, and he’s a sore loser about it. Maybe one of these days you might actually learn to think for your self instead of simply cutting and pasting fascist nonsense.
One…more…time: how exactly does “a phone record, owned and possessed by a telephone service provider (not the customer), qualif[y] as the person, house, paper, or effect of the customer, such that the government’s acquisition of it violates the Fourth Amendment”? Please be specific, ideally citing precedent.
Citing Scalia, on the other hand, hardly constitutes rubbish. One side of this discussion is citing facts and jurisprudence, the other is just making it up without advancing any kind of coherent argument, sounding instead merely like an AGW fanatic or a BusHitlerLied!!! drone.
Snowden signs his own death warrant.
http://rt.com/usa/snowden-booz-allen-job-surveillance-173/
He is a spy.
This episode, illustrated by comments here, serves to illustrate the problems any informed conservative thinkers should have with libertarians.
Look, if he were truly a spy we would not even be aware that anything had happened, at least not so quickly. The Rooskies and Chinese would certainly not trumpet this business from the rooftops as it has been. No, I think this kid is genuine and is only now being manipulated by all sides. It is in US interests to demonstrate that he is a spy, so they are using their pet media to do just that. The whole trip to Russia could be a ruse to bolster the narrative of a “spy on the run”. But I am not surprised if the lad runs to any place where the US does not have influence. If you had just robbed a bank would you run to a Tim Hortons?
What motivates espionage has nothing to do with the defining criteria. It is fairly clear from the press bio that Snowden is pretty deep into the narcissistic personality disorder spectrum. When it comes to espionage, insanity is not a defense (unless of course your clearance fell out of a crackerjack box; that’s another problem exposed). He’s not running for cover, he’s seeking notoriety.
In that, and given that his type have problems with fact and fiction, he can cause a tremendous amount of damage. He has already made assertions in areas where he has had no exposure.
This is not a “lad”; this is a monster who must be stopped.
Say, if the NSA, CIA and their ilk are so all-pervasive, why have they utterly failed to nab Snowden yet? Surely they’re tracking his emails and phone calls?
And how come Assange didn’t have a “accident” ages ago?
Come on, conspiracy cranks! We need an explanation!