An opinion piece by Diane Francis;
The new Game of Thrones is not about military conquest but about picking off trophy assets from countries, like Canada, that are Boy Scouts and naïve enough to let them do so. And growing and nurturing large successful entities is essential to any nation-state. Size matters.
h/t Brian
‘Scuse me, but what difference does it make if China “owns” Nexen, a multinational company. Most of Nexen’s assets are not even in Canada. In fact, the company’s principal Canadian properties are a working interest in an oilsands development and a 27 story office building in Calgary. Tempest in a teapot, as Alberta still owns the oilsands resource and will continue to reap the benefits from its exploitation.
To those commentators suggesting that mines and oil be out of bounds to foreign investors, I would suggest a little knowledge of history. Without foreign seed money, which the anally obstructed capitalists of Montreal and Toronto were loth to provide, there’d be no Sudbury, there would have been no Cominco and there’d certainly no Alberta oil industry. Anybody for an agrarian Canada?
Are the Chinese going to move the oil out of Alberta in secret without paying for it?
Who reports the amount exported? You seriously think incompetent bureaucrats can’t be fooled?
Find ways to drill for it without employing Canadians?
They’re already using foreign workers. Slaves, more like it, since they don’t pay them…
To those commentators suggesting that mines and oil be out of bounds to foreign investors…
Equating foreign investors to the communist chinese, that’s a bit rich…
Zog >
Of course the guy that just got caught recently selling Canadian/ NATO military secrets to the Chinese was just doing business with a friendly foreign investor.
Posted by: LAS at July 29, 2012 3:30 PM
“in the fevered imagination of area sinophobes.”
Oh, big surprise here we go. Whenever you disagree with someone and can’t think of anything else to say attach the suffix “phobe” to a word and scream it.
F**k you LAS. You’re an idiot.
Diane Francis is arguing for nationalizing provincial resources.
Pierre Trudeau wouldn’t have said anything different.
It’s doesn’t matter who we sell them to as long as our workers harvest the resources and we get paid hard currency for them.
Until we process our raw resources into value added finished products it doesn’t matter who buys, at least China is using the resources.
Imagine if George Soros bought these resource companies so that he could lay off Canadian workers and shut them down?
Would Diane Francis say “At least an American bought them.” Eh?!
This is a tough one for me, but I don’t trust Diane Francis’ opinion on anything. She is definitely not one of us. She is a nanny-stater social engineer type.
It’s doesn’t matter who we sell them to as long as our workers harvest the resources and we get paid hard currency for them.
Hard currency? You kidding? More like cheap crap that doesn’t work taken in trade. Or bought on credit and never paid for, like another commie country.
Go ahead and pick nits, fiddle,
What have you got to say about nationalizing resources(which belong to the people of the several provinces) and the possibility that the harvesting of them could be idled if we wait for some western nation to show up as a customer?
I don’t like commies, but the alternative customer is who?
What have you got to say about nationalizing resources(which belong to the people of the several provinces)…
I say get the resources out of the hands of gov’t all together, so politicians can’t play politics with them.
All resources should have been in the landowners hands all along. Then we aren’t 100% tied to the ideology of the day.
“Canada is a sovereign state and, in the final instance, like any sovereign state, can exercise its right to nationalize foreign-owned companies at any time should it feel they somehow constitute a threat to our national interests”
Oh, sure. Because THAT strategy worked wonders for Cuba, didn’t it? And there’d be no blowback from the international community, or reverse actions taken on canadian companies in china, would there?
THINK.
Would the US permit chinese takeover of vital defense-based industries? Hardly; for years they even prohibited export of high-tech CNC equipment to iron-curtain countries, until Toshiba flouted the restriction in 1987.
I’m not sanguine with entering into any agreement with the chicoms, and if it IS necessary, then permit them a minority stake in a natural resources company, but not controlling interest. Gee, if – according to foreign policy experts like LAS – this makes me a “sinophobe”… guess I am.
mhb23re
People should read the article before commenting.
Francis is NOT recommending nationalizing resource companies.
Me No Dhimmi, she’s also not recommending Mercantilism, and you can make a very strong Libertarian argument in Francis’ favour.
Right wingnut logic: letting a fori\eign government own our natural resources is good; nationalizing a small part of our natural resources (ie. Petro Canada) is a horrible thing and the end of capitalism.
Surprisingly, a good point…
MDH, Mikewa and Oz said it all. Most of the rest in this thread is protectionist drivel no different that Pierre Trudeau and the nationalist protection racket.
Now for those of you willing to block this, are you willing to pony up the money to buy Nexen at a matching bid? If not, then just like potash, you’re robbing the shareholders.
john, you lost any credibility as soon as you had to rely on insults rather than logic for an argument. Another sad victim of leftist reasoning methods.
SDH, “…and you can make a very strong Libertarian argument in Francis’ favour.”
That’s an interesting claim. I would much like you to state it. Unless we get a rational position on this, your “no” side is stuck with morons like john.
Of course, the resources are already effectively nationalized, being under control of the provinces, representative of the Queen. A commie set-up to start with…
Now for those of you willing to block this, are you willing to pony up the money to buy Nexen at a matching bid?
I could give a damn about nexen and their shareholders. Enriching the enemy is treason.
The fact that a lot of people are taken in by communist propaganda doesn’t change that. And no different than leftists who say the Islamists are nice people who would never hurt us.
Some kind of cognitive dissonance going on to say nationalizing companies is bad, then advocate selling to a government.
The Chinese need to maintain about a minimum 7% growth rate or risk “domestic stability issues” and they’re willing to pay a premium to secure the required inputs. I don’t see the problem here, other than the fact that they’re a bunch of godless commies who are continually trying to steal our tech. But whatever, that’s a separate issue. Foreign direct investment is good, protectionism is bad mmmkay? Please bring cash, chi-coms.
Reciprocity…mmmhhh…but that goes against the current liberal politically correct multicultural dogma;
Only white nations should bend over backward for non-white nations,
Only white nations must open our doors to legal and illegal immigrants and open our land to foreign investors.
It would be RACIST to ask for reciprocity
according to our liberal friends who know so much better than little me………..
Canadian Friend >
The left doesn’t care as much about WHO so long as SOMEONE has a boot on their throat, better yet their neighbors throat.
Equal opportunity tyranny and poverty, that is the unspoken motto of the useful idiots for the global elitists who sell themselves as Liberal Progressive’s.
Sovereignty and Nationalism only count for those that live in tyrannical regimes, they of course typically happen to be non-white nations.
The conservative advocates of “globalism” are beyond stupid people. What is really pathetic about their case is that they actually believe they’ll benefit from this eventual socialist globalist dream.
cgh – the no side is pretty uniformly arguing no because they feel benefits are less than costs for the proposed Nexen sale because Chicoms are the ones doing the buying, which is a much different set of issues than the Potash Corp. sale, which should have gone through, as the sale was to BHP, not a corp that ultimately may be a tool of a foreign gov.
PO’ed –
CNOOC may be NYSE listed to get access to US investment.
UNOCAL was NYSE listed, and CNOOC failed to win it.
BTW, UNOCAL shareholders got the same offer from Chevron as was offered by CNOOC, in the end.
People need to ask, would they like to see 30, 40, 50% of the industry in Chinese hands, as an approval on this sale will probably bring more and more Chinese offers.
The conservative advocates of “globalism” are beyond stupid people. What is really pathetic about their case is that they actually believe they’ll benefit from this eventual socialist globalist dream.
~Knight 99
Dream?
Let’s talk about the here and now.
Who is the customer if not the ChiComs and how does it hurt the ChiComs if we kill the golden goose of our productivity by refusing to sell to the only customer who wants to buy?
Starving them doesn’t fill our stomachs.
They have other sellers, where are our other buyers?
Please answer, I’d really like to know what you think the alternative is.
Who is the customer if not the ChiComs and how does it hurt the ChiComs if we kill the golden goose of our productivity by refusing to sell to the only customer who wants to buy?
Selling them oil is one thing. Letting them control both ends of the deal is another.
Is that healthy for the community?
I don’t know and since ‘the community’ does not have rights it is moot.
People here can keep hyping the China threat all they want. It is not Canada’s job to indulge your fear.
The best way to peace is to give China a stake in us. Who goes to war with a customer? Global trade and investment = peace.
There ya go, enslave us to the communists. Enslave us to the needs and wants of others. Any slave can live in peace…
SDH, “…and you can make a very strong Libertarian argument in Francis’ favour.”
That’s an interesting claim. I would much like you to state it.
Governments shouldn’t own private companies.
enslave us to the communists. Enslave us to the needs and wants of others. Any slave can live in peace…
~fiddle
Nationalize our provincial resources, Mulcair becomes PM, provinces can’t quit Confederation with their resources because they belong to Ottawa now…
“I fully agree. This sell must be stopped now.”
~Quebecois NDP separatiste at July 29, 2012 11:30 AM
Gee the KeyBake EndeePee Separitist troll agrees wit chew.
Congrats.
Did you know that the NEP(National Energy Policy) was actually an NDP idea?
Yes, really.
Governments shouldn’t own private companies.
~SDH
Apart from the fact that PetroCan wasn’t a private company after Trudeau’s NEP got done taking over all the private companies that combined to make up PetroCan(if a government now owns it, ipso facto it ain’t private), what is worse: nobody working which makes the nation weaker immediately or everybody working in the resource industry which make the nation stronger and possibly the nation’s long term enemy stronger too?
Where/who I ask once more, gainsayers, is the alternative customer?
Dear PO’ed et al:
I can envision 5 courses of action for Vancouver wrt real estate:
1. Do nothing – ie. keep the status quo.
2. Add a significant property tax surcharge for those who the home is not their principle residence.
3. Same as #2, but with an exemption for BC residents.
4. Same as #2, but with an exemption for Canadian citizens.
5. Forbid ownership to all non-Canadians.
Note: There is precedence for #4.
Once again, I’m not saying I have a specific opinion as to which course of action is best but I do know that it’s not healthy to have a sizable amount of the real estate in my city empty much of the year.
Well I place as much store in Francis’ opinion as I do Heather Malice….
PRC policy is that foreign investors are welcome IF they find PRC partners and only have a minority interest. This brings in investment and technology. Probably prudent.
Where/who I ask once more, gainsayers, is the alternative customer?
That’s hypothetical right now. The problem with the leftist indoctrinated is that they can’t bring themselves to trust free enterprise to devise a solution.
We don’t need communist assistance to build this country. Never have, and never will.
Especially allowing them control of both ends of a trade deal. That’s total madness.
Conservatism used to be about independence and taking control of ones own destiny. Interdependence with communists is not a conservative trait.
Oz >
“They have other sellers, where are our other buyers?”…………..“Please answer, I’d really like to know what you think the alternative is.”
Yea, I know it sounds difficult to many, but we have our own “junk” to make instead of off-shoring all of our manufacturing and technologies (Less what “they” blatantly steal of course). Like those none existent jobs that we need to import the rest of the third world to do that apparently we wouldn’t do if they actually existed anymore.
Any of these third world crapholes are nothing without us; they wouldn’t be near the threats (commercially or militarily) that they are without our humanitarian interventions and technologies. We give away our wealth and make ourselves dependant to despotic third world countries like China. Yes I’ve been there many times, a despotic craphole once outside of the mimicked western facades enjoyed by their gangster nouveau riche.
Canada is a “sovereign state”, a “nation state”! Don’t make me laugh. It’s neither it’s PET’s Canuckistan ASSR (Associate Soviet Socialist Republic), while Harper’s doing a good imitation, Putin he ain’t.
fiddle >
“Conservatism used to be about independence and taking control of ones own destiny.”
fiddle, you said it!
Today’s so called “conservatives” trashing the so called “liberals” is a perfect cliché of “the pot calling the kettle black”.
Talk about losing our way as an independent sovereign society built on free will and individual determination. Everyone should cut their wrists and give it to the Chinese, Islamist or whoever is more deserving of the world’s abundance. It apparently ain’t us anymore by the looks of it; we apparently died as a deserving society a long time ago.
What a bunch of sellouts and losers.
There are people in Calgary that are all beside themselves being happy that Chinese government is buying canadian free enterprise company.
Think about it, Chinese communists are buying a canadian company that is important in what it owns and produce.
If it was a bunch of Chinese business people, wholly independent of the government of China, it may not stink as much. Though what “businessman” in a communist state is not beholde n to the same.
Are you kidding me?
This appears to be a foot in the door. Remember, the foreign state can demand all sorts of things of the canadian government disguised as business decicions.
Harper should establish a law that states that no foreign government its agents or surrogates cannot in absolute terms own and run a company in Canada.
Not oil, not wheat, not hair pins, not beer or anything else.
If the the canadian company goes bancrupt, so it is.
If there is value in it there are other companies that will snap it up piece by piece.
If you thing that Chinese communists are being charitable, perhaps you should look at buying some waterfront property in Florida.
On the other hand,
once the communist government of China takes over, the pipeline to the west coast should be a cake walk as some would say.
The opposition of socialists, the environ-mentalists and other such would melt away like snow in July.
If only we could sell them the CBC…
There are people in Calgary that are all beside themselves being happy that Chinese government is buying canadian free enterprise company.
Think about it, Chinese communists are buying a canadian company that is important in what it owns and produce.
~Lev at July 30, 2012 12:56 AM
The Chinese Li family have owned 71% of Husky Oil since the early ’80s through Hutchison Whampoa Ltd.
Yes, Husky Oil based in Calgary, one of Canada’s largest Oil companies.
In 1987, the Li family expanded overseas, taking a 43 percent interest in Husky Oil. Since then, Husky Oil ownership has shifted to 46 percent ownership by Li and his family, 49 percent-owned by Hutchison Whampoa Ltd. and 5 percent by the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce.
Chinese interest in Canadian oil and gas is nothing new.
The Chinese Li family is not Chinese communist government, though they probalby rub shoulders.
Hey, you wanna sell, go ahead.
Now understand that it is a figure of speach so don’t get uptight.
There are those that would sell their mother for a few pieces of silver, suppose that would be an agreeable transaction.
Those that claim that foreign investment is wrong, are wrong.
When it comes to foreign government that is controlled by communists and runs dictatorship, kills their own citizens, one would say that it’s not ok.
As mentioned before you wanna sell your mother for few pieces of silver, go ahead.
The:
“Now understand that it is a figure of speach so don’t get uptight. ”
was and belongs at the end of the comment, don’t know how it moved up.
Oz >
“Chinese interest in Canadian oil and gas is nothing new”
Oh well , guess we should all go to sleep now?
I heard the Hell Angles have been selling crack to your kids, relax though it’s been going on for awhile now.
Hilarious listening to KnightCap and Fiddle lament that conservatism used to mean ‘independence’, and that the only way to restore this is to tell Canadian businesses they can’t make deals with Chinese companies.
Chinese companies = Chinese government.
It’s actually kind of sad that home-grown Canadian businessmen either do not have the capital (unlikely) or the interest to buy up this company. I would suggest that the disinterest is from a mixture of union organizing, really strict environmental laws, hassles with the green activists and/or natives and the myriad of petty laws foisted on any company by the Federal Gov’t, the Provincial Gov’t and possibly municipal gov’t nearby…In other words, the only way to stay within the lawful regulations set up by our own respective gov’t is if the owners are willing to spend millions/hundreds of millions or even billions to ensure that they are in compliance with all the regulations (after they’ve bought the company)…who has the money for that? Only a superpower requiring strategic resources it doesn’t have enough of would go to those lengths–a business man trying to make maximum profits would be turned off by it.
LAS >
“….the only way to restore this is to tell Canadian businesses they can’t make deals with Chinese companies.”
LAS you have never been right about anything you have ever written an “opinion” on. Your position alone should have most SDA commenter who knows this running in the opposite direction.
Go eat some Chinese play toy lead LAS, when you grow up you may understand the actual problem.
Small c: not so. The collectivist morons arguing here are largely the same bunch who were arguing against the sale of potash as well. Go back and check the thread to see the idiocy that some of these spouted then.
And they can’t even keep their story lines straight. We have this priceless gem from fiddle:
“Of course, the resources are already effectively nationalized, being under control of the provinces, representative of the Queen. A commie set-up to start with…”
Well, if it’s all a commie setup anyway, why do you care? What you want is to impose your own commie set up on someone else’s.
And then there’s this:
“I could give a damn about nexen and their shareholders. Enriching the enemy is treason.”
Since when are we at war with China? In fiddle’s delusional mind perhaps. But robbing shareholders IS theft no different than any communist nationalization or outright theft of property. What fiddle and the rest don’t understand is that the shareholders of a company are entitled to do with their property what they wish. These gormless morons bleat a good line about the lack of property rights in the Canadian constitution and then trample all over property rights when they don’t happen to like what someone else is doing.
Fact is, just this once, LAS is right. Saying no to the deal means the government telling Canadian business that it can’t do business with China. And all the shrieking hysterics from Knight and the rest of his little cesspool of racist chauvinists can’t hide it.
Favill: Canada is a small country. It has never had the amount of venture capital required to develop the oil sands by at least an order of magnitude. This is potentially high risk stuff, and that kind of money in the amounts required necessitates foreign sources.
Since when are we at war with China?
Asked and answered.
For all those who support the sale, but are against Canada nationalizing natural resources, why is it okay for the Chinese government to own Canada’s natural resources,
but not okay for the Canadian government?
SDH – you left out this important bit of data:
“Highly placed sources tell CBC News the cyberattacks were traced back to computer servers in China.
They caution, however, that there is no way of knowing whether the hackers are Chinese, or some other nationality routing their cybercrimes through China to cover their tracks.”
I commend cgh’s observations and analysis. We aren’t at war with China, and Canadian shareholders have the right to sell their shares to whomsoever they wish.
Again, me no dhimmi also has, in my view, an accurate conclusion. Francis is a mercantilist who considers that foreign investment is an act of war. No. The world economy functions as a global network.
As for China being communist – heh, I’d say it has become more and more capitalist as the west, using such recent examples as the UK, the US, Europe etc have become more socialist and focused on big government control.
SDH, Canada’s natural resources are, and always remain, under the ownership of the Crown exercised by the provincial governments. The Crown does not sell its rights. It leases access. This is a fundamental difference which you have to understand to make any sense of some of the drivel in this thread.
The Crown retains its sovereignty over natural resources, always. Who is granted the lease is essentially irrelevant.
ET, I would only note that cyber attacks are not defined or considered as Acts of War. Otherwise there would be bombs falling on Teheran and Tel Aviv even as we speak.
Cgh >
“Since when are we at war with China?”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/01/05/obama-acts-to-counter-china-military-threat/
Google: China spying on Canada, and Canadian Navy officer accused of spying for China.
Of course it would be undiplomatic even racist to suggest that there are always ongoing tensions and hostilities with China and the west. Remember to feel sorry for the poor disenfranchised occupiers of Tibet and murderers of +60 million of its own citizens. If you choose not to believe it, you don’t need too, enjoy the bliss.
Selling off Canadian interests to the Chinese is more brain-dead than Libyans selling off commercial interests to Italy & France. Selling them oil is one thing, a little like the US/ Saudi relationship, but giving them a stake in ownership is another matter entirely.
Your also welcome to your racist finger pointing and rant’s against me, I could give a rat’s ass what someone like you think’s. I’ve been to China plenty of times and have done direct business with CNOOC both in Beijing and their Office’s in Yan’An North Central interior. I’ve seen their operations firsthand.
You’re simply a mouthpiece that believes LAS knows what he’s talking about, now that is hilarious.