“The Occupy Canada activists showed there’s a market for such an approach.”
Now there is a strategy guaranteed to preserve the Tory majority.
All those “new” ideas sound to me just like the old ideas. They were big on the knowledge economy a few years back and also set up some Ottawa office to address homelessness. These ideas are retreads. I think it is a problem if a political party does not know what it stands for. That’s why political parties exist — to put forward an agenda. With the Liberals it’s more like “We are a party . . . now what are our ideas?” In my view they are increasingly more like a social club then a political organization.
New ideas?!
These are the same old nanny state promises that have been made for years.
If I read this right,bigger gov. Spend more money that isn’t there,give away lots to those who don’t work for it, and hope some magic fairy will pay the bills.
“Cheech and Chong Party” or CCP
Toking up the party line…sure to inspire the ‘hippy nation’.
Yep, back to the ’60s is ‘forward looking’…and Bob’s Your Uncle Rae.
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
“But the party grown-ups will need to put something more in the window if they hope to command serious attention and win back the voters’ trust. They need to work up a credible sales pitch.”
They need to repay the $400 million tax dollars they stole under the Chretien regime.
Oz, where did you get that figure? I believe you forgot the $50 Billion + that Chretien and Martin pilfered from UI and spent it in other vote buying ways.
“The Occupy Canada activists showed there’s a market for such an approach.”
Wow, the stupid runs deep at the star.
Rise Up part two?
I am hoping the liberals will have a party retreat down to Guyana where they can enjoy some special Kool-Aid mixes and talk about their ideas in greater depth when they all reach hell. Or is that too harsh?
Ye this is what Canada needs . More Obama like policies.
The state as my dealer .. just what I always wanted.
I’m not a pot smoker, but are there any actual downsides to legalization?
As long as they don’t move too far left and scare the centre, I don’t think it matters what policies they have. If they have a believable leader, unlike the last two, they will eventually win. They have to wait their turn although it might be a long wait.
Powerfactor
“I’m not a pot smoker, but are there any actual downsides to legalization?”
Impaired driving without a readily available test. Mind you that’s already a problem.
I say they should make Old Head Is Fried, Hedy Fry leader and let her prance around in her purple parrot outfits like she does in the Vancouver Pride Parades and lead them all in big giant Hookah Parties. Go Head Is Fried Go…..
From the Star story on the LPC (and that’s just what it is: a fairytale):
“The Occupy Canada activists showed there’s a market for such an approach [the LPC as ‘a 21st-century champion of economic opportunity, social conscience and equity.’]”
Yeah, right. There are five Occupiers left in Toronto (http://mrctv.org/node/109035).
As for the Liberal$ having “to work up a credible sales pitch,” they’ll need to be selling a product worth buying. It’s going to take them years to re-create themselves, unless their intention is simply to change the window dressing and present themselves as bogusly new and shiny. Good luck with that.
Then, there’s the Star’s depiction of PM Harper as the leader of “cranky conservatism.” Give. Me. a. Break. Just because he doesn’t court the approval of the media, and their obeisance, like the Liberals did, and just because he simply gets on with the job of leading the nation without constantly calling attention to himself, doesn’t make him or his party “cranky.”
Good luck, Liberal$. You’re bankrupt in more ways than an empty bank account.
And…speaking of Pride Parades,I see cbc’s Solomon has trotted out the MOST vile,hateful person they could find to speak on the gay divorce issue (Globe and Mail too) Any media outfit that uses Dan Savage as a voice of sanity has rocks in their head.
Experience has demonstrated two things.
First, that trying the same thing expecting a different outcome is a sign of insanity.
Two, that those that are insane and out in the wilderness, don’t stand much chance at survival.
Matters not. The only way for their convention to generate more than a punchline, is if there is a motion to merge with the NDP, otherwise there is nothing newsworthy to report.
I think the Libs should grasp the plank of marijuana legalization.
The Liberals could say, “Hey Canada, since we made pot illegal in the first place, we should be the ones to right the terrible costly muddleheaded injustice we have done to so many Canadians for so many decades!”
What could go wrong?
A mandatory crackhouse on every block!
OMG! I had never laid eyes on a Star article in all of my 53 years til now.
The Horror!
Now you’re gonna tell me that these guys are serious?
Powerfactor >
“….but are there any actual downsides to legalization?”
Aside from legalized stupidity, pot is a “gateway drug” with far more carcinogen and tar than tobacco.
Other than that the Liberal left claims that it’ll reduce crime, once again proving how naive and stupid they really are.
Criminals by definition are criminals, people who do not obey the law. If you take one criminal enterprise away from them they begin another.
Otherwise potheads can get whatever they want readily anywhere in Canada, and the cops pretty much leave pot smokers alone. Therefore I don’t get their issue aside from the delusional belief that they will somehow legally be able to publicly blow pot smoke in my face and not suffer any consequences.
Cannabis is pretty much legal in BC. So decriminalizing it isn’t going to see much change in the number of users since anyone who can’t figure out where to buy some in BC is very socially isolated. The biggest group of new users are the over 60 crowd with osteoarthritis and other painful conditions as cannabinoids are rather effective analgesics and there is a lot less tolerance than with opiates.
Cannabis is legal now in the form of Sativex which is basically a mixture of THC and cannabidiol which is administered via an oral spray. At $200/bottle it is just for those people who have very good drug plans and don’t want to take the risk of buying the equivalent amount of weed for $25 or less. Then there are delta 9 THC pills for nausea associated with cancer chemotherapy which, again, are about 10-20 X more expensive than the indigenous BC grown product.
That’s why I’m in favor of decriminalization of cannabis, not legalization. The last thing I want is the government to get involved in cannabis regulation and distribution as this would eliminate all competition in what is currently a free market.
The Federal Liberals are in the same pickle as the Sask NDP. If they hit upon policies that the electorate will vote for, they will be indistinguishable from the conservative parties. Might as well pay off their debts and close up shop. Your era is over and done for, folks. Face it.
In Victoria/Vancouver pot use is pretty much not taboo but I’m no fan. What’s funny though is talk to any of these pot heads about smoking bans (the tobacco kind) and they say it shouldn’t apply to pot but most definetely SHOULD apply to tobacco they even sometimes cite health affects.
Aside from legalized stupidity, pot is a “gateway drug”
~Knight 99
Gateway to what?
What a sad remnant of the party of Sir Wilfred Laurier.
Oz: “[Cannabis is a] Gateway to what?
You’re kidding, right?
To hard drugs. Not to mention that it softens the brain. ‘Ever tried to have an intelligible conversation with a pothead?
PET Cemetery Suggestion.
Our Options:
Recall Liberal Ad$cam MartinJr and stop the lamentations. Alternatively: Recall Citoyen Kyoto Dionky and/or re-brand Count Ignatieff as Our Peace In Israel Candidate.
“Paul Martin laments Tory ‘tampering’ with marriage law” (g-m)
Prohibition just does not work, never has. Best to make it a social taboo, not a legal problem.
The Red radicial Left is kind of going in circles trying to figure out how to get back in power…bankrupt Bob stands out like a beacon mmm sore thumb…if you think about it the Liebranos and the NdP are all but in bed with each other…I wonder if there will be a formal marriage….with a one year resident required for divorce…//
Oz >
To try and clarify my earlier statement:
If you take the “soft drug” out of the hands of the petty criminals they turn to something else, possibly more harmful and more dangerous to the public. They won’t stop trying to make easy money. The way I see it, selling pot keeps their heads down and preoccupied a little.
You know as well as everyone else here that every “hard drug” user in Canadian history more than likely started smoking pot before they ever stuck a needle in their arm. Having a few lesser taboo’s between clean and the hard stuff may stop a few before it gets out of control. Just say’n.
In fact I think Ritalin the modern day Liberal teacher’s drug of choice and excuse for lack of any skills is also a gateway drug to pot to begin with.
Loki >
I agree with what you said especially for the disabled or elderly with medical conditions, or maybe just plain retired.
Alternatives could be to decriminalize it for medical conditions (as I believe it already is), and set an age/ quantity limit to grow, like 65 years old or something akin.
Gateway to the Liberal Party. 🙂
@ Oz, Knight99:
The gateway drug is booze. It’s the only drug that can be connected in any statistically rigorous way.
Since you have suggested that pot is the gateway drug, it’s up to either or both of you to cite good (GOOD) evidence for your position. Betcha can’t.
Aside from legalized stupidity, pot is a “gateway drug” with far more carcinogen and tar than tobacco.
Wrong. Recreational MJ use has no correlation with decreased lung function, in contrast to cigarettes. Legalized stupidity…? Prohibitionists are allowed to be so why not others?
The only downside to legalization is that drug warriors won’t get their rocks off to the thought of ‘no good types’ getting their door busted in. And the children!
MJ legalization is a good start for the Liberal party, but just that. It needs to accompany a waltz to a ‘libertarian-lite’ Liberal party, or they will continue spiraling.
Are we sure that a party that has legalized weed as a major platform won’t be marginalized? When the people ask where’s the beef it had better be more bull and less bull$hit. Just what the country needs – more substance abuse.
Richards in Vancouver >
“..pot is the gateway drug”
I said “pot is a gateway drug” – It’s up there in print.
I’m not disagreeing with you about the booze, aside from using “the” again instead of “a”.
Smarter>
“Wrong. Recreational MJ use has no correlation with decreased lung function, in contrast to cigarettes” – Smarter http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/infofacts/marijuana
“In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50-70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke”
Of course we should simply just take your expert online opinion based on personal experiance instead.
@knight 99
Come on… Two sentences after the one you quoted:
” however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.”
Pot is a gateway drug…Bullshit!
‘Ever tried to have an intelligible conversation with a pothead?
Yes I have. And did.
Powerfactor >
And? One study not making a direct link between pot smoke to cancer is not exactly a health promotion. Did you read the rest?
Before we get on this too far, it seems like I’m being made out as someone who really cares about pot smoker’s health. Honestly I could give a rat’s ass, smoke till ya drop. Just go buy it from a dealer or grow it yourself is my opinion, you take the risks legal or otherwise, it’s not my issue but I’ll vote against its legalization every time.
I grew up in Canada not a vacuum; I know what pot is and what hard drugs do to people I’ve seen it firsthand. I have dead relatives and friends because of drugs, and yet I have lived a good and prosperous life without drugs. Too each their own.
Impaired driving without a readily available test.
Then we should be testing for impairment not the amount of some specific drug in the person’s system. Aside from legalized stupidity, pot is a “gateway drug” with far more carcinogen and tar than tobacco.
There is no end to preconceived ideas from people who read some unsubstantiated opinion and believed it because it coincided with those preconceived ideas.
“Smoking a joint once a week or a bit more apparently doesn’t harm the lungs, suggests a 20-year study that bolsters evidence that marijuana doesn’t do the kind of damage tobacco does.” from Journal of the American Medical Association.
The ‘gateway drug’ fallacy has been disproved in many studies. Coincidence does not prove causality. One could just as easily say that caffeine is a ‘gateway drug’, since almost every hard drug user drank coffee or caffene laced soft drinks before they used ‘hard drugs’.
I know occasional cannabis users who have absolutely no interest in ‘hard drugs’, nor are they addicted to cannabis anymore than the person who has a beer in the evening is addicted to alcohol. They’re not ‘street people’ or ‘hippies’, they’re just normal people leading normal productive and responsible lives. They’re also some of the most intelligent and well read people I know with wide ranging interests and accomplishments.
Stereotypes are seldom correct. Just because most ‘street people’ smoke pot does not mean that most pot smokers are ‘street people’. That’s simply illogical.
I don’t care if those facts change anyone’s beliefs or not. If it causes anyone to at least reconsider their preconceived ideas and stereotypes then it’s accomplished something useful.
Actually LAS is correct on this issue. Cannabis has neutral effects on lung function and, a recent study that I’ve just seen a summary of, showed that people who engage in occasional inhalation of cannabis smoke have better lung function than those who don’t.
Cannabinoids are anti-inflammatory and, before cannabis was made illegal, one could buy a pack of joints at ones local pharmacy for the treatment of asthma. Tobacco smoke, OTOH, is very inflammatory when inhaled and the toughest job I have is getting smokers with COPD to stop smoking the 1-2 cigarettes/day which is the lowest that most of them can get down to. Nicotine inhalers seem to work in some of these patients and what would really be helpful would be if electronic cigarettes were available in Canada.
The whole concept of a “gateway drug” is wrong. Whether someone becomes dependent on a drug or not depends on their neurochemical makeup. I’ve found that about 10% of smokers are completely unable to quit nicotine because they just find their brains function so much better with nicotine. I’ve managed to get a lot of these people onto nicotine patches and nicotine inhalers as the problem isn’t the nicotine, it’s the delivery system.
Bipolars love stimulants and 95% of people who try cocaine don’t get addicted. For the remaining 5% of the population, among whom there are a disproportionate number of bipolars, the euphoria is just too hard to let go of. Most junkies I’ve run into seem to want to be comatose most of the time. For someone who’s interested in doing things this is not an ideal state. Most people, unless they have severe pain, don’t find opiates very enjoyable.
IMHO the biggest mistake the Conservative party has made is to proceed along the prohibitionist path when it comes to recreational drugs. I’ve known people who have Libertarian leanings support the NDP because of Jack Layton’s promise to decriminalize cannabis. They’re also regular pot smokers and have to worry about the primary health hazard of cannabis which is the legal system. If the Conservative party eliminated its support of the war on (some) drugs, then it would see a large increase in support in BC. Such policies would leave the Lieberals and NDP just being in support of an increase in government spending in an economic situation that can’t afford the profligate government spending that is already happening.
I’d have no problem with laws that provided more severe penalties if one was involved in an accident while stoned but I’m totally against random drug testing of drivers.
North of 60, you’ve just made most of the comments I was trying to make except my post got caught in the filter. Not sure what I said that triggered it.
If we used the same logic as applies to the war on (some) drugs, then we’d ban alcohol because of the adverse effects it has on some people. This summer I’ve seen the greatest number of alcohol withdrawal cases since the days I interned at St. Pauls in Vancouver. Alcohol withdrawal, unlike heroin withdrawal, can often be fatal. Have also seen a number of cases of Wernicke’s encephalopathy related to alcohol this summer and these people end up in extended care beds as their memory is totally shot. Simple to prevent if we were allowed to “adulterate” liquor with thiamine, but that’s illegal.
It should be the Conservative gov’t legalizing drugs.
So many of you folks are for limited government but you’re all for a huge gov’t bureaucracy trying to stop individuals from smoking weed (and even the hard stuff). Let folks make up their own minds about what they want to put in their bodies. Stop being such a bunch of nanny state babies asking the gov’t to stop it all for you.
The real conservative is against the drug war just like Buckley and Milton Friedman were. You’re nanny statists, you just want the state working for you.
It’d be one thing if the drug war was working. Right now, it’s easy to get drugs and we’ve gangsterized entire countries — don’t think that doesn’t affect you if you don’t care about “those people”. 11% growth in murders in Mexico for 2011 with 13K dead in 9 months. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16518267
And, just for reference, I’ve never smoked weed in my life. And I won’t, even if a gov’t makes it legal. I voted Conservative and our policy should also be to move towards legalization.
Tobacco is “THE” gateway drug, it leads to ALL others.
Deaths from marijuana use: 0.
Deaths from aspirin (U.S. per year): 180 – 1,000 +.
Deaths from legal drugs (U.S. per year) at doses used for prevention, diagnosis, or therapy: 106,000.
The U.S. Pharmacopoeia indicated cannabis should be used for treating such ailments as fatigue, fits of coughing, rheumatism, asthma, delirium tremens, migraine headaches, and the cramps and depressions associated with menstruation.
In this century, cannabis research has demonstrated therapeutic value and complete safety in the treatment of many health problems including asthma, glaucoma, nausea, tumors, epilepsy, infection, stress, migraines, anorexia, depression, rheumatism, arthritis, and possibly herpes.
Just saying…
All this and more from a cached web page of Jack Herer.
‘Ever tried to have an intelligible conversation with a pothead?
Grandad: “Yes I have. And did.”
‘Talk to yourself, do you?
Knight, Batb and scar should stick to what they truly know and avoid commenting on something they have obviously never “experienced”…Relying on propaganda as well as counter propaganda rarely gives you the truth. I’ll bet the pro crowd here are “experienced” even if some claim they “never touched the stuff”…It’s still a stigma afterall; the propaganda being so strongly anchored.
Big tobacco, alcool and pharma lobbies do not want the miracle medicine plant to be legal…Big government has also figured out that any attempt to market, regulate and tax, like they do with tobacco would be in vain because anyone can grow it easily for use, unlike tobacco …So no gov tax returns on something that can grow anywhere and ready to be used.
Marihuana prohibition will eventually be declared one of man’s biggest follies ever…Along with AGW and medieval witch trials.
“The Occupy Canada activists showed there’s a market for such an approach.”
Now there is a strategy guaranteed to preserve the Tory majority.
All those “new” ideas sound to me just like the old ideas. They were big on the knowledge economy a few years back and also set up some Ottawa office to address homelessness. These ideas are retreads. I think it is a problem if a political party does not know what it stands for. That’s why political parties exist — to put forward an agenda. With the Liberals it’s more like “We are a party . . . now what are our ideas?” In my view they are increasingly more like a social club then a political organization.
New ideas?!
These are the same old nanny state promises that have been made for years.
If I read this right,bigger gov. Spend more money that isn’t there,give away lots to those who don’t work for it, and hope some magic fairy will pay the bills.
“Cheech and Chong Party” or CCP
Toking up the party line…sure to inspire the ‘hippy nation’.
Yep, back to the ’60s is ‘forward looking’…and Bob’s Your Uncle Rae.
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
“But the party grown-ups will need to put something more in the window if they hope to command serious attention and win back the voters’ trust. They need to work up a credible sales pitch.”
They need to repay the $400 million tax dollars they stole under the Chretien regime.
Oz, where did you get that figure? I believe you forgot the $50 Billion + that Chretien and Martin pilfered from UI and spent it in other vote buying ways.
“The Occupy Canada activists showed there’s a market for such an approach.”
Wow, the stupid runs deep at the star.
Rise Up part two?
I am hoping the liberals will have a party retreat down to Guyana where they can enjoy some special Kool-Aid mixes and talk about their ideas in greater depth when they all reach hell. Or is that too harsh?
Ye this is what Canada needs . More Obama like policies.
The state as my dealer .. just what I always wanted.
I’m not a pot smoker, but are there any actual downsides to legalization?
As long as they don’t move too far left and scare the centre, I don’t think it matters what policies they have. If they have a believable leader, unlike the last two, they will eventually win. They have to wait their turn although it might be a long wait.
Powerfactor
“I’m not a pot smoker, but are there any actual downsides to legalization?”
Impaired driving without a readily available test. Mind you that’s already a problem.
I say they should make Old Head Is Fried, Hedy Fry leader and let her prance around in her purple parrot outfits like she does in the Vancouver Pride Parades and lead them all in big giant Hookah Parties. Go Head Is Fried Go…..
From the Star story on the LPC (and that’s just what it is: a fairytale):
“The Occupy Canada activists showed there’s a market for such an approach [the LPC as ‘a 21st-century champion of economic opportunity, social conscience and equity.’]”
Yeah, right. There are five Occupiers left in Toronto (http://mrctv.org/node/109035).
As for the Liberal$ having “to work up a credible sales pitch,” they’ll need to be selling a product worth buying. It’s going to take them years to re-create themselves, unless their intention is simply to change the window dressing and present themselves as bogusly new and shiny. Good luck with that.
Then, there’s the Star’s depiction of PM Harper as the leader of “cranky conservatism.” Give. Me. a. Break. Just because he doesn’t court the approval of the media, and their obeisance, like the Liberals did, and just because he simply gets on with the job of leading the nation without constantly calling attention to himself, doesn’t make him or his party “cranky.”
Good luck, Liberal$. You’re bankrupt in more ways than an empty bank account.
And…speaking of Pride Parades,I see cbc’s Solomon has trotted out the MOST vile,hateful person they could find to speak on the gay divorce issue (Globe and Mail too) Any media outfit that uses Dan Savage as a voice of sanity has rocks in their head.
Experience has demonstrated two things.
First, that trying the same thing expecting a different outcome is a sign of insanity.
Two, that those that are insane and out in the wilderness, don’t stand much chance at survival.
Matters not. The only way for their convention to generate more than a punchline, is if there is a motion to merge with the NDP, otherwise there is nothing newsworthy to report.
I think the Libs should grasp the plank of marijuana legalization.
The Liberals could say, “Hey Canada, since we made pot illegal in the first place, we should be the ones to right the terrible costly muddleheaded injustice we have done to so many Canadians for so many decades!”
What could go wrong?
A mandatory crackhouse on every block!
OMG! I had never laid eyes on a Star article in all of my 53 years til now.
The Horror!
Now you’re gonna tell me that these guys are serious?
Powerfactor >
“….but are there any actual downsides to legalization?”
Aside from legalized stupidity, pot is a “gateway drug” with far more carcinogen and tar than tobacco.
Other than that the Liberal left claims that it’ll reduce crime, once again proving how naive and stupid they really are.
Criminals by definition are criminals, people who do not obey the law. If you take one criminal enterprise away from them they begin another.
Otherwise potheads can get whatever they want readily anywhere in Canada, and the cops pretty much leave pot smokers alone. Therefore I don’t get their issue aside from the delusional belief that they will somehow legally be able to publicly blow pot smoke in my face and not suffer any consequences.
Cannabis is pretty much legal in BC. So decriminalizing it isn’t going to see much change in the number of users since anyone who can’t figure out where to buy some in BC is very socially isolated. The biggest group of new users are the over 60 crowd with osteoarthritis and other painful conditions as cannabinoids are rather effective analgesics and there is a lot less tolerance than with opiates.
Cannabis is legal now in the form of Sativex which is basically a mixture of THC and cannabidiol which is administered via an oral spray. At $200/bottle it is just for those people who have very good drug plans and don’t want to take the risk of buying the equivalent amount of weed for $25 or less. Then there are delta 9 THC pills for nausea associated with cancer chemotherapy which, again, are about 10-20 X more expensive than the indigenous BC grown product.
That’s why I’m in favor of decriminalization of cannabis, not legalization. The last thing I want is the government to get involved in cannabis regulation and distribution as this would eliminate all competition in what is currently a free market.
The Federal Liberals are in the same pickle as the Sask NDP. If they hit upon policies that the electorate will vote for, they will be indistinguishable from the conservative parties. Might as well pay off their debts and close up shop. Your era is over and done for, folks. Face it.
In Victoria/Vancouver pot use is pretty much not taboo but I’m no fan. What’s funny though is talk to any of these pot heads about smoking bans (the tobacco kind) and they say it shouldn’t apply to pot but most definetely SHOULD apply to tobacco they even sometimes cite health affects.
Aside from legalized stupidity, pot is a “gateway drug”
~Knight 99
Gateway to what?
What a sad remnant of the party of Sir Wilfred Laurier.
Oz: “[Cannabis is a] Gateway to what?
You’re kidding, right?
To hard drugs. Not to mention that it softens the brain. ‘Ever tried to have an intelligible conversation with a pothead?
PET Cemetery Suggestion.
Our Options:
Recall Liberal Ad$cam MartinJr and stop the lamentations. Alternatively: Recall Citoyen Kyoto Dionky and/or re-brand Count Ignatieff as Our Peace In Israel Candidate.
“Paul Martin laments Tory ‘tampering’ with marriage law” (g-m)
Prohibition just does not work, never has. Best to make it a social taboo, not a legal problem.
The Red radicial Left is kind of going in circles trying to figure out how to get back in power…bankrupt Bob stands out like a beacon mmm sore thumb…if you think about it the Liebranos and the NdP are all but in bed with each other…I wonder if there will be a formal marriage….with a one year resident required for divorce…//
Oz >
To try and clarify my earlier statement:
If you take the “soft drug” out of the hands of the petty criminals they turn to something else, possibly more harmful and more dangerous to the public. They won’t stop trying to make easy money. The way I see it, selling pot keeps their heads down and preoccupied a little.
You know as well as everyone else here that every “hard drug” user in Canadian history more than likely started smoking pot before they ever stuck a needle in their arm. Having a few lesser taboo’s between clean and the hard stuff may stop a few before it gets out of control. Just say’n.
In fact I think Ritalin the modern day Liberal teacher’s drug of choice and excuse for lack of any skills is also a gateway drug to pot to begin with.
Loki >
I agree with what you said especially for the disabled or elderly with medical conditions, or maybe just plain retired.
Alternatives could be to decriminalize it for medical conditions (as I believe it already is), and set an age/ quantity limit to grow, like 65 years old or something akin.
Gateway to the Liberal Party. 🙂
@ Oz, Knight99:
The gateway drug is booze. It’s the only drug that can be connected in any statistically rigorous way.
Since you have suggested that pot is the gateway drug, it’s up to either or both of you to cite good (GOOD) evidence for your position. Betcha can’t.
Aside from legalized stupidity, pot is a “gateway drug” with far more carcinogen and tar than tobacco.
Wrong. Recreational MJ use has no correlation with decreased lung function, in contrast to cigarettes. Legalized stupidity…? Prohibitionists are allowed to be so why not others?
The only downside to legalization is that drug warriors won’t get their rocks off to the thought of ‘no good types’ getting their door busted in. And the children!
MJ legalization is a good start for the Liberal party, but just that. It needs to accompany a waltz to a ‘libertarian-lite’ Liberal party, or they will continue spiraling.
Are we sure that a party that has legalized weed as a major platform won’t be marginalized? When the people ask where’s the beef it had better be more bull and less bull$hit. Just what the country needs – more substance abuse.
Richards in Vancouver >
“..pot is the gateway drug”
I said “pot is a gateway drug” – It’s up there in print.
I’m not disagreeing with you about the booze, aside from using “the” again instead of “a”.
Smarter>
“Wrong. Recreational MJ use has no correlation with decreased lung function, in contrast to cigarettes” – Smarter
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/infofacts/marijuana
“In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50-70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke”
Of course we should simply just take your expert online opinion based on personal experiance instead.
@knight 99
Come on… Two sentences after the one you quoted:
” however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.”
Pot is a gateway drug…Bullshit!
‘Ever tried to have an intelligible conversation with a pothead?
Yes I have. And did.
Powerfactor >
And? One study not making a direct link between pot smoke to cancer is not exactly a health promotion. Did you read the rest?
Before we get on this too far, it seems like I’m being made out as someone who really cares about pot smoker’s health. Honestly I could give a rat’s ass, smoke till ya drop. Just go buy it from a dealer or grow it yourself is my opinion, you take the risks legal or otherwise, it’s not my issue but I’ll vote against its legalization every time.
I grew up in Canada not a vacuum; I know what pot is and what hard drugs do to people I’ve seen it firsthand. I have dead relatives and friends because of drugs, and yet I have lived a good and prosperous life without drugs. Too each their own.
Impaired driving without a readily available test.
Then we should be testing for impairment not the amount of some specific drug in the person’s system.
Aside from legalized stupidity, pot is a “gateway drug” with far more carcinogen and tar than tobacco.
There is no end to preconceived ideas from people who read some unsubstantiated opinion and believed it because it coincided with those preconceived ideas.
“Smoking a joint once a week or a bit more apparently doesn’t harm the lungs, suggests a 20-year study that bolsters evidence that marijuana doesn’t do the kind of damage tobacco does.” from Journal of the American Medical Association.
The ‘gateway drug’ fallacy has been disproved in many studies. Coincidence does not prove causality. One could just as easily say that caffeine is a ‘gateway drug’, since almost every hard drug user drank coffee or caffene laced soft drinks before they used ‘hard drugs’.
I know occasional cannabis users who have absolutely no interest in ‘hard drugs’, nor are they addicted to cannabis anymore than the person who has a beer in the evening is addicted to alcohol. They’re not ‘street people’ or ‘hippies’, they’re just normal people leading normal productive and responsible lives. They’re also some of the most intelligent and well read people I know with wide ranging interests and accomplishments.
Stereotypes are seldom correct. Just because most ‘street people’ smoke pot does not mean that most pot smokers are ‘street people’. That’s simply illogical.
I don’t care if those facts change anyone’s beliefs or not. If it causes anyone to at least reconsider their preconceived ideas and stereotypes then it’s accomplished something useful.
Actually LAS is correct on this issue. Cannabis has neutral effects on lung function and, a recent study that I’ve just seen a summary of, showed that people who engage in occasional inhalation of cannabis smoke have better lung function than those who don’t.
Cannabinoids are anti-inflammatory and, before cannabis was made illegal, one could buy a pack of joints at ones local pharmacy for the treatment of asthma. Tobacco smoke, OTOH, is very inflammatory when inhaled and the toughest job I have is getting smokers with COPD to stop smoking the 1-2 cigarettes/day which is the lowest that most of them can get down to. Nicotine inhalers seem to work in some of these patients and what would really be helpful would be if electronic cigarettes were available in Canada.
The whole concept of a “gateway drug” is wrong. Whether someone becomes dependent on a drug or not depends on their neurochemical makeup. I’ve found that about 10% of smokers are completely unable to quit nicotine because they just find their brains function so much better with nicotine. I’ve managed to get a lot of these people onto nicotine patches and nicotine inhalers as the problem isn’t the nicotine, it’s the delivery system.
Bipolars love stimulants and 95% of people who try cocaine don’t get addicted. For the remaining 5% of the population, among whom there are a disproportionate number of bipolars, the euphoria is just too hard to let go of. Most junkies I’ve run into seem to want to be comatose most of the time. For someone who’s interested in doing things this is not an ideal state. Most people, unless they have severe pain, don’t find opiates very enjoyable.
IMHO the biggest mistake the Conservative party has made is to proceed along the prohibitionist path when it comes to recreational drugs. I’ve known people who have Libertarian leanings support the NDP because of Jack Layton’s promise to decriminalize cannabis. They’re also regular pot smokers and have to worry about the primary health hazard of cannabis which is the legal system. If the Conservative party eliminated its support of the war on (some) drugs, then it would see a large increase in support in BC. Such policies would leave the Lieberals and NDP just being in support of an increase in government spending in an economic situation that can’t afford the profligate government spending that is already happening.
I’d have no problem with laws that provided more severe penalties if one was involved in an accident while stoned but I’m totally against random drug testing of drivers.
North of 60, you’ve just made most of the comments I was trying to make except my post got caught in the filter. Not sure what I said that triggered it.
If we used the same logic as applies to the war on (some) drugs, then we’d ban alcohol because of the adverse effects it has on some people. This summer I’ve seen the greatest number of alcohol withdrawal cases since the days I interned at St. Pauls in Vancouver. Alcohol withdrawal, unlike heroin withdrawal, can often be fatal. Have also seen a number of cases of Wernicke’s encephalopathy related to alcohol this summer and these people end up in extended care beds as their memory is totally shot. Simple to prevent if we were allowed to “adulterate” liquor with thiamine, but that’s illegal.
It should be the Conservative gov’t legalizing drugs.
So many of you folks are for limited government but you’re all for a huge gov’t bureaucracy trying to stop individuals from smoking weed (and even the hard stuff). Let folks make up their own minds about what they want to put in their bodies. Stop being such a bunch of nanny state babies asking the gov’t to stop it all for you.
The real conservative is against the drug war just like Buckley and Milton Friedman were. You’re nanny statists, you just want the state working for you.
It’d be one thing if the drug war was working. Right now, it’s easy to get drugs and we’ve gangsterized entire countries — don’t think that doesn’t affect you if you don’t care about “those people”. 11% growth in murders in Mexico for 2011 with 13K dead in 9 months. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16518267
And, just for reference, I’ve never smoked weed in my life. And I won’t, even if a gov’t makes it legal. I voted Conservative and our policy should also be to move towards legalization.
Tobacco is “THE” gateway drug, it leads to ALL others.
Deaths from marijuana use: 0.
Deaths from aspirin (U.S. per year): 180 – 1,000 +.
Deaths from legal drugs (U.S. per year) at doses used for prevention, diagnosis, or therapy: 106,000.
The U.S. Pharmacopoeia indicated cannabis should be used for treating such ailments as fatigue, fits of coughing, rheumatism, asthma, delirium tremens, migraine headaches, and the cramps and depressions associated with menstruation.
In this century, cannabis research has demonstrated therapeutic value and complete safety in the treatment of many health problems including asthma, glaucoma, nausea, tumors, epilepsy, infection, stress, migraines, anorexia, depression, rheumatism, arthritis, and possibly herpes.
Just saying…
All this and more from a cached web page of Jack Herer.
‘Ever tried to have an intelligible conversation with a pothead?
Grandad: “Yes I have. And did.”
‘Talk to yourself, do you?
Knight, Batb and scar should stick to what they truly know and avoid commenting on something they have obviously never “experienced”…Relying on propaganda as well as counter propaganda rarely gives you the truth. I’ll bet the pro crowd here are “experienced” even if some claim they “never touched the stuff”…It’s still a stigma afterall; the propaganda being so strongly anchored.
Big tobacco, alcool and pharma lobbies do not want the miracle medicine plant to be legal…Big government has also figured out that any attempt to market, regulate and tax, like they do with tobacco would be in vain because anyone can grow it easily for use, unlike tobacco …So no gov tax returns on something that can grow anywhere and ready to be used.
Marihuana prohibition will eventually be declared one of man’s biggest follies ever…Along with AGW and medieval witch trials.