As Wisconsin’s Governor attempts to get a grip on public sector union costs in his massively debt-ridden state, some Wisconsin preschoolers are taught to “(repeat) the popular slogan ‘kill this bill,'” while some older students are being used as unwitting pawns in the union’s cause:
To be clear, I understood Brent’s comments, MoZ, not so much.
Always amazes me that leftoids can paraphrase claptrap from the New World government (wanna be), the UN. The UN is as about as effective a socialist experiment as the League of Nations was.
Maybe Watson can recall who is on the UN’s Humane Rights Council?
Comrade Zinn….I see you have neglected to respond to the issues I raised. That is, the right to work and NOT be forced to belong to a Bolshevik union.
It seems that I have pegged Comrade Zinn appropriately…..a Marxist loon. Likely a union “leader” who lives off the forced union dues of union members.
Don’t fall for the troll argument, Joey.
The DoHR has no legal power, period.
There is no right to work and even if there was then president Obastard is violating the rights of the 20+% of Americans who are unemployed.
I don’t know why you guys bother, having a comment debate with a Marxist is like wrestling with a pig.
Dear Zinn moment, I’m just waiting for the beatings and burning stuff to start up. Won’t be long, your union brothers have already started vandalizing people’s cars and picketing their homes.
phantomsoapbox.blogspot.com/2011/02/more-helpful-signs-of-freaking-out-on.html
Besides which, public sector unions are really just handy groups of useful idiots for the grandees of the DemocRat party.
phantomsoapbox.blogspot.com/2011/02/astroturf-oh-yeah-it-is.html
The masses are getting -really- tired of hauling your freight mr. zinn, so I hope you and your boys really kick up your heels this spring and tell us all we better pay up or bad things will happen. Throw some Molotovs, wreck some cars, have a party! The more of it you do, the faster I win.
Comrade Zinn once again stumbles on his/her “logic” with the comment “If the rich have the right to pool their money to form corporation to advance their interests, then workers need to be unionized to provide a counter-balance to protect theirs.”
There is no doubt now that Zinn is clearly a Marxist. (By the way, do you have any idea what corporations really are?….I doubt it)
The “rich” have the right to pool their money. But they are not forced to, are they? Whereas workers are forced to pay union dues whether they want to or not.
And there is absolutely nothing “commie” about someone having the right to work. You have a number of screws loose. Keep posting because with every post, you look dumber and dumber.
Oz:
I’ll concede your technicality that we have no legal protection from the UDHR. However, “in 1968, the United Nations International Conference on Human Rights agreed that the Declaration “constitutes an obligation for the members of the international community” to protect and preserve the rights of its citizenry.” Which the state is now try to violate. If they have no legal right to collective Bargaining, why pass a law against it, why recognize it at all? If you want to negotiate your livelihood on a individual basis, with someone who a) has sufficient resources to ensure that such an agreement is disproportionately in their favour, be my guest.
Enjoy your ever declining standard of living while your boss gets rich.
Oz says “Don’t fall for the troll argument, Joey.
The DoHR has no legal power, period.”
Oh that’s not the point. The point is if Comrade Zinn uses that source in his/her/its argument and believes the D0HR does have legal power, then he/she/it should also know it contains the right to work. It’s simply throwing his/her/its source back into his/her/its face.
Comrade Zinn….actually my standard of living has been increasing….even while my boss gets rich. Maybe that’s the equation you should think about.
After all, your equation didn’t work out too well for the auto industry in the long run, did it?
Joey,
A) not a union leader, nor part of union. I’m an Engineer. and
B) what issue? You haven’t provided any evidence that you are being forced to be a member of a union, let alone a Bolshevik one. Don’t what to be in a union go work somewhere else, just like if I don’t want to work for a corporation I can go work somewhere else.
ChrisinMB:
Right back at ya, buddy.
Enjoy your ever declining standard of living while your boss gets rich.
I am my own boss, I own my own business and, hell NO, I wouldn’t ever sign a collective bargaining agreement with a bunch of commie thugs.
(my standard of living is pretty good too despite having to pay taxes which pay the salaries/benefits of commie public union thugs, but I would have a better standard of living and be better served if that weren’t the case)
Oz:
Well, now I get where you’re coming from, you’re the boss sponging off the hard work of your employees. In your case, it’s perfectly understandable why you are against all of this, it’s only rational.
Sorry guys,
It’s been swell, but the swellings gone down.
Some of us have to work, you know.
Enjoy trashing on working people, hope it works out for you!
Yeah sure you are an engineer, Comrade Zinn. Sure you are.
Try working in the public sector and see what happens if you try to not join the Bolshevik union.
Since when should a union have the right to determine if a person can work at a job site or not?
You tried (unsuccessfully, I might add) to say that the “rich” have the right to pool their money and so labor should also have the same right (by the way, have you ever heard of the “stock market”? Look it up. You might discover that you don’t have to “rich” to pool your money).
But as I mentioned, the “rich” are not forced to belong to a (dreaded) corporation. Yet the same cannot be said for those who want to work somewhere without having labor union Bolshevik goons slashing their tires.
Maybe one day union members will rebel against their fat cat union bosses and realize just how much of their paycheques go to the union “leaders”. Here’s hoping.
Didn’t take long for Comrade Zinn to run out of gas. Mind you, when you are operating on a bumper sticker and union picket sign mentality, you run out of things to say pretty quickly.
Moment of Zinn (or is that “Mind of a Pin”?) writes, “I agree, our schools are indoctrination clinics, just for Capitalism, Western Imperialism, and Authoritarianism”. Surely, you jest.
This scenario is altogether a fabrication—as in LIE. Our public school systems have, lock, stock, and barrel—am I allowed to use that analogy?—been run by leftists for the past four decades, at least: socialism, anti-colonialism, and Charter rights for the kids versus the legitimate authority of the teachers (who are now subservient to the feelings of the parents and kids), are the order of the day.
Moment of Zinn, your thesis is completely WRONG—and a mere assertion: chapter and verse, please, re your utterly fictional description of the left-wing gulags our public education systems have become.
(P.S. Moment of Zinn, a free grammar lesson/edit from a teacher: you wrote to Brent Weston, “Your right, it wasn’t funny. And it’s you who apparently doesn’t get sarcasm.” That should read, “YOU’RE right, it wasn’t funny. And it’s you who apparently DON’T get sarcasm.” Judging by the brainwashing you’ve obviously soaked in, you’ve been denied a proper education in the grammar and logic department. For altogether different reasons—I’m both an insider and right, and you’re absolutely wrong—our public systems get A + in denying our kids a rigorous education.)
If you were in my class and I thought you were capable of either open mindedness or self-reflection, I’d suggest you smarten up.
Just another troll, I guess. Argument goes against it, runs away. Figures.
you’re the boss sponging off the hard work of your employees
Not at all.
The Declaration of Human Rights argument that I won against you wasn’t won on a technicality, it was won on factual reality.
Those Wisconsin teachers have no right to a collective agreement and are, in fact, in violation of their current agreement by being on an illegal wildcat strike.
Zinn is probably a railroad union engineer.
What I’m puzzled by is the bigotry towards ‘rich’ people.
Why is it okay to bash people you perceive as rich?
Yesterday I was poor, yet today I’m feeling rich because the economy is growing in Saskatchewan despite the attempts by the communist NDP to run the new businesses out of town by suggesting a higher rate of compensation for potash. We all get richer when business is successful, and we all get poorer the more public sector unions squeeze out of the economy. Mr.Zinn is only advocating for a protected group of elites, public sector employees. He’s a liar, and has no interest in the public good.
more…
It can be easily demonstrated that the average salary in Saskatchewan has increased at an accelerated rate since the NDP has been defeated. My salary has doubled in that time. Why? Because demand for my job has increased with more companies moving to Saskatchewan to compete. I’m not sure where Zinn comes from, but you won’t find too many engineers calling for Dippers round here.
I’m self-employed as are a good number of my friends and family. We don’t have pensions or extended health care. We’re always wondering where our money goes and how it goes so quickly. Talk wasn’t getting us anywhere so in desperation, I decided a course of action was necessary.
The very next day I went to my boss (me) and said, “I want a raise and I want health benefits and I want a pension”. My boss told me if I wanted all those things, I would have to work longer hours, become more productive or convince the government that an overall tax rate of 50% on my income was unreasonable.
I told him that didn’t seem fair, especially since my hard work and money was going to support all those things I wanted, except I wasn’t getting them and other people (aka public servants) were. So I told him, like those other people, I was going to unionize since it seemed like a really good way to “stick it to the man” and get what I wanted.
He said fine. So I did and I picketed my place of employment for two whole weeks with signs like, “Make the Rich Pay” and “Hands Off My Bargaining Rights” and “Worker’s Rights are Human Rights”. They were really great signs – bright colours, big lettering, real sticks, heavy cardboard. Nobody could ignore them!
I marched through rain. I marched through sun. I marched through snow. I even asked my kids to help me get the “do it for the children” sympathy vote by asking them to hold the signs for a while and shout out slogans like, “If you’re alive, thank a parent”.
Anyway, despite all my efforts it didn’t work because even after all the time I spent picketing my fat cat boss, he just got poorer. When I finally decided the picketing was getting me nowhere and I went back to work in order to pay the bills, my wages were cut. Not only that, I had a really hard time convincing him not to move to a cheaper location.
Can you believe the nerve of it!
PS – The only good thing was I did end up ‘sticking it to the government man’ after all. My income went down but so did my taxes.
The commenter February 18, 2011 11:41 AM would like everybody to get on the bandwagon and support all those that are doing their best to suck as much money from the population as they possibly can. He obviously does not understand simplicity of “there is no money”, the so called public servants are out of order.
How would the commenter know who is right wing or any wing those descriptions mean are nothing, maybe an ideologue and demagogue can work with that. Socialists, fascists and communists are actually running the show; there is no insult, simple statement of facts, if the commenter would like to look at the pictures and video of the protest he/she can see for self.
One must laugh, even though it is somewhat serious. If they taught capitalism in school, the students would know that the protesters are wrong, though one can understand their greed. The public servants, working in their government jobs have their lips firmly stuck on public teat.
Let us see now, “western imperialism”, hmm, who would qualify? Can the commenter clear that up with documentation? Saying so is not sufficient.
What business is it of the commenter if someone is rich? The answer is 0, none. When people invest in business, make loads of money, it is their business only, none others.
From here, the public servants make several times more than the pension that I have to pay taxes on. On top of that the taxes are going to the same public servants for their, by any standard fat pensions and benefits. Therein lays my right to have a say.
If the commenter wants sympathy, there will be none coming. Play me a violin.
I don’t need description, you don’t know me, you have no idea, though from experience I know that socialists, fascists and other such assorted ‘ists, have description for everyone, its how they operate, their mind is occupied by that, by some 92 ½%.
It is strange that the mention of socialists, fascists and others such bothers the commenter, one would think that one of the descriptions would make the commenter proud.
For Moment of Zinn, who has it all wrong re the “conservative” curriculum (s)he thinks is being taught in our public schools. This is part of a post by a reader at Pajamas Media:
“A couple of years ago I was at a gathering with some friends and one of their kids was there with his girlfriend. They had just graduated from a nearby public school noted as being a good one as far as public schools go.
“Somehow the conversation got onto how religion was the ‘cause of wars’ and such. So I asked these kids – both having graduated near the top of their class and having taken the highest level of history – which religious bent was responsible for most of the death and suffering – and with grins (literally grins) on their faces the chanted ‘Christianity!’ in unison. When I informed them that atheism was the correct answer, and backed it up with information regarding the gulag, Cultural Revolution, and Hitler’s penchant for pre-Christian Teutonic ritual, they were dumbfounded. They had never even heard of those things. I’m not sure if they thought I was lying. One of them pouted something about the Crusades, and when I told them they weren’t some random European attack but was a response to the Muslim conquest of North Africa and the Middle East and the Christian and Jewish communities there, they said they’d never even heard of that, either.
“Now, I know their parents, who, while not particularly religious, certainly have no particular animus against religion. I conclude, therefore, that their teachers are the ones who imbued them with this prejudice, and who ‘forgot’ to teach them the whole truth about history and the motivations of the bad guys.”
Canadian students would answer the very same way because they’re fed anti-Christian, multicultural, pro-Gaia, relativistic propaganda all day, every day.
“Just another troll, I guess. Argument goes against it, runs away”
Alas, it ran away before delivering a tirade on the “running dogs of imperialism” and “make the rich pay”. The troll’s lengthy “schooling” of the capitalists on this site seemed somehow incomplete without these gems being tossed about.
As I read its posts, I developed a mental picture of a bearded fool, clad in a beret and camouflaged accessories, standing on a stump in the Honduran jungle delivering a motivating speech to a group of leftist rebels.
I find it interesting that not only has this thread of comments completely fallen off topic, but also that since “Moment of Zinn” posted on here, all comments have been directed at his/her post – specifically to lambast them, even though he/she has not been on her for many hours. Is this not an appropriate forum for honest discussion and debate?
Since it seems that nobody likes to disagree with the “common wisdom” at play here, I’ll happily take the role of devil’s advocate and address a few comments.
First, there was a comment earlier about not having to be rich to participate in the stock market. A recent study done on the distribution of the stock market showed that the top 10% wealth bracket in the US owns 90% of all shares on the market. That certainly seems to indicate that you do need to be quite wealthy in order to participate.
Second, as to the quality of education in the public school system, I agree, most students are coming out of high school poorly educated in history, civics and language. However, I don’t see this as a sign that the “socialists” have taken over the system, rather that the system itself is poorly run, underfunded, and ill-prepared to meet the needs of differing students. Students are taught by rote, are not taught critical thinking, and this is why they blindly follow a teacher’s suggestion to protest. To be fair, most of those kids probably went to the protest so they could get out of class for the day.
And thirdly, I just have to comment to Lookout. You are incorrect in saying that Atheism is the response to that question, it cannot be because atheism is not a religion. Bringing up the typical “evidence” of atheistic influence in eras of history such as Soviet Russia, Communist China, and Hitler’s Nazis is an unfortunately misused and overused arguement. None of these political systems has atheism as a central tenet of their ideology, rather they reject religion as a divisive and hierarchical structuring of society. Hitler was, quite openly, Roman Catholic. Also, the Crusades were a response to the Muslim expansion of territory, but make no mistake, the Holy Roman Empire engaged in a savage military battle not over land, but over right to religious land and on religious grounds.
“A recent study done on the distribution of the stock market showed that the top 10% wealth bracket in the US owns 90% of all shares on the market” So, D.A., you’re saying that rich people are… wait… richer than less rich people?
Wild.
“Hitler was, quite openly, Roman Catholic.”
No, he was raised Roman Catholic. Please find me any indication that he attended any Church services, took Communion, anything like that at any point during his political career, or even his adult life.
And honestly, atheism is too a central tenet of Communism.
Devil’s Advocate, what utter garbage you peddle–your goal, I presume.
I did not “[say] that Atheism is the response to that [?] question”. And, it’s up to you provide evidence that “None of these political systems [Soviet Russia, Communist China, and Hitler’s Nazis] has atheism as a central tenet of their ideology”. OK, what was their central tenet? They were observant Christians?
You also assert, with no attempt to justify your frippery, that, although “I agree, most students are coming out of high school poorly educated in history, civics and language . . . [I] don’t see this as a sign that the ‘socialists’ have taken over the system, rather that the system itself is poorly run, underfunded [?], and ill-prepared to meet the needs of differing students”. Pure bafflegab, Devil. On what grounds do you make such an astonishingly ignorant assessment?
You say, “Students are taught by rote, are not taught critical thinking, and this is why they blindly follow a teacher’s suggestion to protest [on behalf of socialism, the political aim of the system, which is why students “are not taught critical thinking, and this is why they blindly follow a teacher’s suggestion to protest”] . . . and around and around it goes. Got it?
If you really think that the left-wing, socialist agenda of the public school boards has nothing to do with how ill educated, ignorant, and indoctrinated our children are, I’ve got some swamp land in Florida I’m sure you’d love to buy. And, being quite obviously ill educated, ignorant, and indoctrinated yourself, you might just fall for such a ruse.
Try shaking your muddled head and starting again. Good luck.
Black Mamba, yes I suppose on face value I am suggesting that “rich people are richer than less rich people.” If by that, you are suggesting that the remaining population in the US is “rich” I suppose that would make sense. However, the distribution of wealth is highly unequal. The bottom 40% of the country’s population owns less than 1% of the wealth of the country, so I’m not sure how you could refer to them as “rich.”
As for Hitler, yes he was born and raised Catholic. Could you provide evidence of him ever denouncing Catholicism or supporting Atheism?
Communism is not inherently atheistic. It is possible to hold communist or socialist economic views while being a theist and it isn’t at all uncommon to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism. Their existence alone demonstrates, without question, that atheism and communism are not the same thing. Also, quite a bit of what Jesus said directly supports many of the emotional foundations of socialism and even communism. He specifically said that that people should give all they could to the poor and that “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” Does this not suggest that Christianity promotes communistic ideals?
Ditto what I said above. My eyeballs are rolling. Devil’s Advocate, that you can, apparently, utter such drivel with a straight face is alarming.
“Father, forgive [this benighted person], for [s/he] know[s] not what [s/he does].”
It’s true that Hitler guaranteed the freedom of the Catholic religion in the Concordat with the Vatican, but like the rest of his promises, it was discarded as soon as the ink was dry. The Catholic Youth League was attacked, the clergy was harassed and arrested, and the leader of Catholic Action was eventually butchered in The Night of The Long Knives. All churches were replaced by a National Reich Church, recognized by the Reichstag in July 1933 with the swastika replacing the cross as the ultimate sacred symbol.
As far as how much money will keep you out of heaven, I’ll throw this there. Just let me know whatever amount of money God and Jesus says is too much, and I’ll resolve to make one dollar less. 🙂
http://www.bede.org.uk/hitler.htm
(Actually he was more into the occult if anything.)
Lookout, if you’re going to request facts and documentation from me to support my arguements, then I request the same.
To answer your question, no – observant Christianity is not a central tenet of Communism – no religious theology is. Communism is not about religion, it is a sociopolitical movement with the goal of common ownership of the means of production in a state.
In addition, I make my “astonishingly ignorant assessment” of the state of the public school system based on my experience of having gone through that system, and knowing how ill-prepared I was coming out of it. I – obviously unlike you – made an attempt to rectify that.
I would like you to provide evidence of public schools socialist indoctrination of students. Where are Noam Chomsky books used as textbooks, or where is the Communist Manifesto being used as a basis for current ideology? Please provide some basis for your arguement that the public school system is knowingly and deliberately creating a generation of socialist lapdogs.
Lastly, if you want people to debate seriously with you and consider your arguements equal, you have to start debating based on facts, and not on personal attacks. Calling me ill-educated, ignorant and indoctrinated doesn’t make your arguements hold water, it just makes you seem that way yourself.
Obama & the Chicago way: How nay organizations is his people involved with. Layer after layer of stacked into groups that are linked. Just like the Islamists.
I look at this as a parable of the Obama administration.
Bodies Stacked 8 Deep At Cemetery
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/02/17/disturbing-cemetery-burial-practices-uncovered/
Bodies Stacked 8 Deep At Cemetery
Loyal democrat voters, every one.
In the case of Kaufman v. McCaughtry(May 13, 1997), the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals declared atheism a religion for purposes of protection under the Establishment Clause.
The court said prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.
First, there was a comment earlier about not having to be rich to participate in the stock market. A recent study done on the distribution of the stock market showed that the top 10% wealth bracket in the US owns 90% of all shares on the market. That certainly seems to indicate that you do need to be quite wealthy in order to participate.
It also can be said that the top 10% of wealthy had certain amount of guts to take the risk and invest in capitalism before they got rich.
Quality of education is one hundred percent responsibility of the teacher. Underfunding is nonsense, listening to the socialists, everything is underfunded in fact there is not enough money in the whole damned world that would satisfy publicly funded mob. Quality of education is up to the parents and the teacher, even if you don’t like it. A hundred or a hundred thousand $ is not going to make the teacher worst of better, he/she will make less or more money. Still has to teach the same damned thing, though admittedly with less or more bull.
It is a matter of course that public schools indoctrinate children with socialist thinking from day 1. The advocate must be living in the sewer of socialism not to recognize the difference.
Atheism is official communist article, growing up in a country run by communists, that was the official line and you better follow or they have ways to make you. There is nothing overused or misused about it.
You know, those who were born in countries run by communists, had the idea beaten all the awake hours into their heads in schools, at work, indoctrination sessions, by the press, the radio, the television, came out of it with free will and lust for freedom. Actually that is quite amazing.
It is very hard to understand then, that free people are so readily willing to be oppressed. And oppressed you will be, guaranteed, what ever the sweet song of sirens socialism sounds like.
The advocate must be living where they don’t have windows, can’t see the world around him.
Legal basis for collective Bargaining Rights in Wisconsin: Wisconsin Employment Relations Act of 1937
In the USA: National Labor Relations Act (also known as the Wagner Act) of 1935
Devil’s Advocate is not only wrong again, but, hypocritically, throws out a gratuitous insult: (s)he writes, with no evidence at all, “In addition, I make my ‘astonishingly ignorant assessment’ of the state of the public school system based on my experience of having gone through that system, and knowing how ill-prepared I was coming out of it. I – obviously unlike you [sic] – made an attempt to rectify that.”
Is that so? First of all, I went through the system and actually WAS well educated. How’s that for a start? Then, for four decades, I’ve actually taught in the system, where I’ve run highly specialized and successful literacy programs: I’m a teacher who’s made a difference. (At present, I still tutor students who were in my class over a decade ago.)
I’ve watched, appalled, as the politically correct social engineering has escalated over the decades: social indoctrination has taken up so much time and energy, there’s much less time for academics, which, seen as oppressive to minorities, have been thoroughly watered down. Check out the boards’ recent, as in the past decade, equity policies, which advantage only certain groups: teachers are unhappy about this but keep their mouths shut. Public boards are rigidly dogmatic and behave like the Human Rights (sic) Commissions: the boards accept “tattle taling”—and there is no presumption of innocence: it’s up to the discredited—often falsely—teacher to try to establish his/her innocence. (The lefty unions—full of conflict of interest folks, who usually aspire to joining the ranks of administration—are usually useless.) Then, if, in its one-sided, gulag-like investigation, the board’s still not satisfied that the teacher has learned his/her lesson, there are—I kid you not—re-education sessions run by the most doctrinaire of the politically correct crew at head office. (This hasn’t happened to me, but I know lots of teachers who have been demeaned and made to run this particularly tyrannical gauntlet.) More . . . Gaia is worshipped on a daily basis: this is pagan religion. In the textbooks: aboriginals all good, Europeans all bad. Discipline? Don’t go there, especially if the student’s from an affirmative action group.
The multiple distortions of reality in our public education systems are left-wing, utopian propaganda, pure and simple. No wonder the kids are indoctrinated automatons, who are neither very knowledgeable nor smart—sort of like you. (You’ve provided more than enough evidence, and, as I did learn how to think, I’ve put two and two together.)
Lookout, you’re right. In my frustration, I did throw out an insult that was unnecessary. I apologize and it won’t happen again. I would appreciate the same respect in return.
All I’m going to say in response to the incessant personal attacks is this: provide evidence. I am unconcerned about how you feel personally about my comments, I am going to consistenty ask you to provide evidence for your statements until it is provided.
Personal anecdotes or second-hand information do not qualify as evidence for all of the so-called “facts” about the social indoctrination in the public school system. Show me a document which states that the agenda of the board is to shape students into socialists.
Devil’s Advocate, I appreciate your apology: accepted. Now my response to your latest salvo:
Earlier you wrote, “Second, as to the quality of education in the public school system, I agree, most students are coming out of high school poorly educated in history, civics and language. However, I don’t see this as a sign that the ‘socialists’ have taken over the system, rather that the system itself is poorly run, underfunded, and ill-prepared to meet the needs of differing students. Students are taught by rote [sic], are not taught critical thinking, and this is why they blindly follow a teacher’s suggestion to protest [sic].”
What I described to you this morning is the altogether progressive, a.k.a. socialist, nature of the public school systems we have in Canada—and in the USA (see the thuggish behaviour of the union controlled teachers in Wisconsin)—in action. In our all left-wing, all the time public education systems, only victims need apply for status; capitalism, Europe (white people), and Christianity (see my 6:02 p.m. comment yesterday) are all bad, all the time; global warming’s going to kill Mother Earth, a.k.a. Gaia, and polar bears; all cultures/religions/sexual preferences are equal, except the ones “we” don’t like: see above. I’ve lived this for 40 years and I know that there’s no room for deviation: I’ve provided documentation of that. Unless they’re dyed in the wool progressives themselves, teachers keep their mouths shut about the boards’ atrociously left-wing agenda. And you dismiss my in-the-trenches KNOWLEDGE, from personal experience, by a puerile challenge to me to “Show . . . a document which states that the agenda of the board is to shape students into socialists”.
’Talk about being literal and not being able to make inferences! Of course, there’s no such document: all stealth schemes are covered up and smoothed over by bromide language. E.g., Show me the Liberal Party of Canada’s document stating that the purpose of Adscam was to redirect—sometimes, via cash in paper bags—$40 million, stolen from the Canadian taxpayer, to itself. You can’t do that? By your altogether fatuous logic, this bona fide scandal didn’t occur. Yes, critical thinking is no longer encouraged in our schools. Blind subservience to ideology is the order of the day: on that score, I award you an A ++.
Devil’s Advocate, I don’t see evidence that you’re arguing in good faith: I can’t provide any more evidence for my opinions than the honest, reasonable, and copious ones I already have. If that frustrates you, too bad: it’s obviously your problem. (But, worry not: all is not lost. There is help for language processing problems, including being able to synthesize facts and arguments and make inferences. I provide it for my students all the time.)
Lookout, I notice you accepted my apology, but there wasn’t one forthcoming from you…and you continue to insult me and my intelligence. Thanks for that. I don’t think I’m the one being “puerile” here.
I am certainly willing to accept inference as a complement to actual evidence. Since all of the “evidence” you have presented for your arguement is experience-based, or something you just “know” – my experience is just as valid as yours to use as “evidence” and so we are at a stalemate. Since you are the one who made the statement that the education system has been taken over by socialists, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence to back that arguement.
I would certainly not claim that the sponsorship scandal did not happen. We know it happened because there is documentation to prove it. Simple.
D.A. – so lookout explaining to you what she knows based on decades worth of personal experience in the very heart of the institution under discussion doesn’t really constitute evidence? That’s stoopid. You’re trying to come off as logical and meticulous and clear headed but you’re only managing to seem pedantic and robotic and clueless. (Lefties do that a lot, by the way. Especially lefty men.)
“…my experience is just as valid as yours…” Have you been teaching for 40 years? Because otherwise no, no it isn’t.
Of course, you could try comparing the a grade school textbook from, say, 1965 to one from today.
Devils’s Advocate, I did not apologize because none is required.
Now, I wipe the dust off my feet.
(Black Mamba, I appreciate your input. Thanks.)
Lookout – wow. I chose to be the bigger person and apologize for making a personal comment about you. Now you say that you did not do the same because an apology to me was not required? I am stunned. It boggles my mind how much you people on here toss insults around at other posters and can’t even recognize you’re doing it. As far as I’m concerned at this point – you are not even worth the effort of a response anymore. You have proven to be hypocritical, hubristic without cause, and unable to answer my very simple questions.
Black Mamba, one of us certainly seems “stoopid” here, and it isn’t me.
I appreciate you recognizing that I’m the one here who is logical, meticulous and clear-headed – in this you would be correct.
“Lefties do that a lot, by the way. Especially lefty men.)” – This comment is commpletely unnecessary and irrelevant.
As a parent and educator I can corroborate what lookout has said about creeping socialism in the educational system. It’s everywhere.
Just one comment on something Devil’s Advocate has said, that the educational system is “underfunded.”
You’re joshing us, right?
I don’t know where you got this information, DA, but you’re wrong. 33% of each tax dollar in Ontario goes to education. And, as if that’s not enough, students in the public system are constantly being asked to raise money selling magazine subscriptions, chocolates, etc., and buying Scholastic books (how come just one company has a monopoly on books being sold to students?).
The reason 33% of each tax dollar isn’t “enough” — it damned well should be — is because of the unions’ demanding huge salaries and gold-plated benefits and pensions for not only teachers but administrators: principals and superintendents. Trustees too.
It seems that school board employees never have enough in the way of salaries, benefits, or planning time, so the kids become slave labour to bring more money in. Believe me, it’s not going towards the kids’ learning; it’s going to pay the exorbitant salaries, perks, and benefits of teachers and administrators. Many classrooms don’t have enough textbooks to go around, so DA, could you please tell me why you say that the educational system is underfunded?
PS — We all know that socialism doesn’t include God on the agenda. Well, neither does the public educational system. You can pray to Gaia, as often happens, especially on Earth Day, but not to the Judeo-Christian God. Socialist, as we all know, are so open, tolerant, and diversity-loving.
Uh huh.
Socialists …
Amen, batb.
(Psst. Facts for DA are like pearls before swine.)
I call BS on your Education expenditure “fact” batb-rain.
For 2008-2009, the GoO spent 20% of its operating expenses on Education, 26% in you include Training, Colleges and Universities.
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/estimates/2010-11/volume1/Table_2.html
batb-rain??????