A Tea Party member and former Marine steps forward:
59 Replies to “Beauty”
That was beautiful.
From the way he sang to the way the people reacted, that brought tears to my eyes.
Beautiful.
Absolutely awsome! There is hope. Not that ‘hope and change, thing, but real honest to goodness hope.
Same here, Irene Swain.
Wow great to hear from 2nd verse Americans.
Have you heard the 4th verse of O’Canada?
Ruler supreme, who hearest humble prayer,
Hold our dominion within thy loving care;
Help us to find, O God, in thee
A lasting, rich reward,
As waiting for the Better Day,
We ever stand on guard.
Refrain
God keep our land glorious and free; etc.
Absolutely stunning. G*d bless this marine!
Yes, Jeanette, we in Canada also acknowledge G*d in our national anthem and sing a number of times in the first verse:
G*d keep our land, glorious and free.
Amen!
It’s time for Canadians to step up to the plate and to speak truth to lies. We need to remind people, young and old, that we, like the U.S., are a nation under G*d — He shall have dominion from sea to sea (Psalm 72:8).
‘No more bullying from the G*dless Left. STAND ON GUARD, Canadians!
Gives me chills. I live in Georgia and have the privilege of listening to Herman Cain 5 nights a week. Got to hermancain.com and check out his intelligent thinkers movement.
When was the last time a Canadian heard Maple Leaf Forever? Instead, we have ultra left and uber feminists trying to change the lyrics to O Canada to be become more “gender neutral”.
We should sing all verses to anthems whenever given the opportunity. It would add clarity and context and enforce the Judeo-Christian roots of our respective nations.
Oh yeah: for his age, dude can sing. Booya!
Heartwarming and inspiring! So true! That lifted my spirits on Monday morning.
Radical right wing jealot!! – sarc off
Right on Jeanette, now I’m not American, but while he sang that my screen went all fuzzy, wonder what made that happen?
— But what about the first line in the first verse? Are they not celebrating diversity and accommodation of illegal immigration, when the crowd stands and with hat over heart ask if “José can you see”. Obviously the crowd at the game were worried that José in the cheap bleachers had a clear view of the infield.
That’s touching.
Ever hear the (I think) 6th verse of ‘God Save the King’?
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
That was great. The fourth verse of O’Canada is great also. Too bad we never sing it. The Liberals would probably scream and holler blue murder.
And yet, the US DoI and US constitution are the prime examples of classical liberal thought, including principles such as separation of church and state, individual rights over collective rights, etc, and of course God is nowhere to be found in the US Constitution (unlike in the poor Canadian version).
Which is all not that strange since the founding fathers were essentially deists and of course classical liberals.
Religion is and should be a personal thing, nothing more, nothing less.
Unfortunately, later Congress inserted the “under God” part in the pledge of allegiance. The founding fathers would certainly have objected!
Actually, this is a very popular sentiment in a most small towns across the United States.
The Declaration of Independence states that we are endowed by a Creator with inalienable rights. So our founding fathers recognized the existence of a Creator and defined the relationship of that Creator with Americans. As a consequence, there has always been a close relationship in American life with the concept of a “creator”, however one wishes to define it.
Once a Marine? Always a Marine.
Brought tears to my eyes. Rumours of America’s demise have been greatly exaggerated…
I pissed myself watching that. Yeeeehawwwwww!
“Religion is and should be a personal thing, nothing more, nothing less.”
Such a fatuous statement makes about as much sense as saying, “Politics is and should be a personal thing, nothing more, nothing less.”
John i Kanada: IMHO you are relying on revisionist history a fact in both the U.S.A. and in Canada. Cheers; Mike Sr.
Curious,
you never refer to a Marine as a “ex-Marine”. Former Marine is simply a short-hand way of saying that one is a Marine formerly serving as an active duty Marine and now serving in civilian life.
Perfect.Beautiful. Amen.
I’ll defer to you Greg.
One of my neighbours was a tunnel rat in Nam. He diligently replaces his Corps colours and the Stars and Stripes on his flagpole every year.
He doesn’t say much. But you don’t dis the Corps in earshot of him. Our “Jarhead” and “Doggie” banter leaves a few folks wondering when the fisticuffs will commence on the shop floor.
Couldn’t you just feel the hate and bigotry dripping from the guy as he sang that?
Tea Party? I wonder how many Canadians would come out to a Tea Party event?
Or we could just continue along with Ottawa’s plan to make us all surrender monkeys. Oh, I almost forgot, very polite surrender monkeys.
That man needs more exposure, he should be invited to the sporting events in the area and really get the crowds going.
Instead of a tea-party, we need a Canadian Coffee Klatch.
Larry: “Tea Party? I wonder how many Canadians would come out to a Tea Party event?”
When Preston Manning held one out here in the Wet Coast, I think the attendance was over 1500. The Hall was at maximum capacity with people standing outside.
Bring on a tea party at Avenue Road and Bloor Street and I’LL BE THERE.
Unfortunately, I was out of town this weekend or I would have been at Avenue Road and Bloor Street, standing with the Jewish people outside their embassy.
I’ve been there before, last winter. Boy, was it COLD.
Outstanding !!!!!
,
I have noticed the same ones who think In God We Trust should be stricken or the same ones who stand behind Helen Thomas.
“The Declaration of Independence states that we are endowed by a Creator with inalienable rights. So our founding fathers recognized the existence of a Creator and defined the relationship of that Creator with Americans.”
Yes, but Johann i Kanada notes that they were deists. The difference between deists and ‘christians’ is that deists believe in an impersonal God. They essentially answer the old question “Where did we come from?” by attributing it to an unknown force, known as the creator. The deist creator has no interest in your prays or whether you believe in Jesus. It is just an unknown force that has to be named. One that (who?) really isn’t interested in saving America, or any country for that matter.
Mike Sr.
The works of the founding fathers are well known. Read their original words in their original handwriting at the Library of Congress, and you will realize that the majority of them were deists who were very disaffected by the Christian exclusivism – which makes sense, given that that America was essentially a safe haven for European victims of religious persecution. The idea of a faith that contradicts the idea of “all men are born equal” by dividing humanity into believers and non-belivers on the basis of their belief in Jesus did not make sense to the founding fathers. They had a very real understanding of the Catholic persecution of protestants and vice versa, which no longer makes sense to us. Bloody Mary was not, after all, named after an alchoholic beverage. She ordered murders in the name of religion. Incidentally, as sovereign, she was also the ‘state’. Thats where the founding fathers were coming from.
Jefferson is the most famous of the deists and rightly so. He propagated the separation of church and state. And for that, the great state of Texas recently voted to diminish his role in their history textbooks. Guess who the revisionist is? But please, don’t let the facts get in the way of your ideology.
As for the genius who equates politics and religion, I feel obligated to tell you that there is a religion that believes what you do. That religion and politics are in some way equal. Its called Islam. Feel free to convert.
I’ve never understood the SDA obsession with America. If you guys love America so much that you get tears in your eyes when they sing their national anthem, why don’t you immigrate? The manner in which it resonates with some of you suggests that you belong there, not here.
Despite the fact that most of the founding fathers were Protestant, they insisted that the Creator be universal enough for people of many faiths to feel connected to American life.
Although there were some deists who would also feel comfortable under the US’s idea that spirit is supreme, as a principle the fact that they insisted that we are “endowed” by inalienable rights qualifies an impersonal speculation.
We are endowed with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, among others. This suggests opportunities created and held in store as an endowment perhaps the way a deceased father would make certain that his children were provided for.
The fact that these qualities are endowed to American citizens by a Creator removes the proposition somewhat from a strictly deistic point of view, depending on how you were defining deism. The founding fathers were not trying to start a new religion, and some people refer to their point of view as natural philosophy. But they definitely enshrined the idea that spirit is supreme.
For example, Emerson and Thoreau years later would feel very comfortable with the founding fathers’ assertion in respect to a Creator.
Many people in different religions have felt comfortable with the American outlook with their different religious voices.
I’ve never understood the SDA obsession with America. If you guys love America so much that you get tears in your eyes when they sing their national anthem, why don’t you immigrate? The manner in which it resonates with some of you suggests that you belong there, not here.
This statement is offensive at the highest level. Canada is born of the same origins as the US, and while our governments diverged, our peoples did not. Many of my need to understand that we are ALL americans in North America. Leave your puerile bigotry and your moral relativism in the gutter where it belongs.
Not sure what happened to my previous post, but I’ll run it again… I’ve never understood the SDA obsession with America. If you guys love America so much that you get tears in your eyes when they sing their national anthem, why don’t you immigrate? The manner in which it resonates with some of you suggests that you belong there, not here.
This statement is offensive at the highest level. Canada is born of the same origins as the US, and while our governments diverged, our peoples did not. Many of my (Cdn) relatives emigrated to the States to assist in the building of their industry, some served in the Marines as yanks, fought alongside of them in a great many wars, but they are not now and never will be anyhing but Canadians, regardless what their papers say. Many, many Americans have done the same here. Draft dodgers in the 60s weren’t the only Americans to come to Canada.
If you know anything about Ontario, you know its roots are as much out of Pennsylvania and Ohio as they are out of England, Ireland, South Asia, or any other place. You need to understand that we are ALL americans in North America. Leave your puerile bigotry and your moral relativism in the gutter where it belongs.
“Despite the fact that most of the founding fathers were Protestant, they insisted that the Creator be universal enough for people of many faiths to feel connected to American life.”
This was the only reality for the new US in the 1700s. A very large percentage of immigrants to the colonies were religious refugees of all faiths. An inclusive position and document was the only way a governmental organization was going to be able to function. I would suggest that the founding fathers were more pragmatists than deists. Certainly learned men of the day could easily recognize the religious bigotry that lead to much of US colonization.
Politically, I’m as conservative as they make ’em – far more conservative than Harper and his retread Mulronyites. However, if being conservative means worshipping God, Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, you exclude me from your club.
Some of the postings on this thread are as off-putting as the Allah rants of the mad mullahs. Give it a rest folks and remember the words of your prophet about rendering unto Caesar.
And to top it all off, he has a great voice.
stoop at 5:39 PM: “I’ve never understood the SDA obsession with America. If you guys love America so much that you get tears in your eyes when they sing their national anthem, why don’t you immigrate? The manner in which it resonates with some of you suggests that you belong there, not here.”
=====================
It never fails to amaze me that the practitioners of virulent Anti-Americanism in Canada can’t see the bigotry in their words. Always pointing their arrogant fingers at those who don’t hold fast to the same prejudice, they fail to notice that three of their fingers are pointing back at themselves.
Stuff it where the sun don’t shine, a$$hole.
Besides, when you leave your country of origin the word is “emigrate”.
Zog,
Three points;
1. Jesus is our God. Not a prophet, not a fairy tale.
2. If beheading “Allahu Akbar” shouters equal Prince of Peace followers in your mind, then your head is wasted on your shoulders.
3. Render unto God, the things that are God’s; all your heart and all your soul and all your strength and all your mind.
Skip,
“This statement is offensive at the highest level.”
How is it offensive? Nationalism is inherently exclusive. The entire notion is built on the premise that one ‘nation’ is distinct from another. National symbols, anthems, flags etc are chosen in order to highlight the distinct nature of each nation. They are chosen in a manner that takes into account their ability to resonate with the vast majority of the people. Therefore, it stands to reason, that national symbols, anthems etc are inherently distinct and are meant to resonate amongst one group of people.
The moment these national anthems start resonating with citizens in other countries, it means that the citizens amongst whom it resonates, now identify more with the other nation than they do with their own. In other words, their Canadian ‘national’ identity has been trumped by the American national identity, by virtue of their attraction to, and apparent willingness to adopt, American symbols. It goes without saying that the nation is ultimately an artificial construct and that by virtue of adopting another nations symbols, you are undermining your own nation’s foundation. If we are all ‘Americans’, why have a Canada at all?
And what is wrong with suggesting that you immigrate? If you feel so strongly about the American national anthem etc, its clear where your heart is. By all means, let your body follow.
I fail to see where I have indulged in bigotry (I never said Canadians, Americans, South Asians, Pennsylvanians etc are bad or anything. I just said that if you feel such a strong emotional attachment to symbols that are inherently exclusive, then go and immerse yourself in the exclusivity wholeheartedly. Where is the moral relativism?
Louise,
“It never fails to amaze me that the practitioners of virulent Anti-Americanism in Canada can’t see the bigotry in their words.”
Where did I say anything offensive about the US? Where did I say anything anti-American? I daresay that I would have said the exact same thing to you if you had said you had tears in your eyes when you heard the Chinese/Indian/Jamaican/Russian national anthem. Would that make me anti-American too? You are accusing me of being anti-American when I haven’t said anything anti-American, beyond suggesting that some of you put your money where your mouth, tears and heart is. How that is anti-American is beyond me. Knee-jerk reaction. I know its a favorite pastime here to accuse Canadians of having knee-jerk anti-American reactions, but it seems that some here have no control over their knees. National anthems are ‘national’ anthems. If other nation’s national anthems are evoking such a strong response in you, its best you go join that nation.
As for putting things where the sun don’t shine, I’d best keep my things and body parts as far away as possible from your apparent residence.
“Besides, when you leave your country of origin the word is “emigrate”.”
Immigrate to. Emigrate from.
I am not advising them to emigrate from Canada in general, I am asking them to immigrate to the US, where their heart is.
Is “Stoop” short for stupid or has it something to do with your carriage or is your back stoop your soap box. I admire that the yanks are so patriotic, no matter their political ideology. I love their emotionalism, we could use more ourselves. If Canada was as involved in world affairs as much (per capita) as Americans, we’d have reason to be emotional too; someday we may. I feel the pride of the British when I read their history too, and conversley with the Irish in their fight against British repression. So what?
Skip,
You write “Leave your puerile bigotry and your moral relativism in the gutter where it belongs”.
as response to people who provide some historical and political perspective re: deism, founding fathers, etc).
Who, actually, is the bigot here?
And how exactly is providing some historical perspective proof of “moral relativism”?
As an “atheist protestant”, and classical liberal, I feel very much as home when I read the founding fathers and their US DoI and Constitution.
And I certainly do not subscribe to an sort of moral relativism.
To my mind, there is one clearly superior political & cultural tradition, i.e. the Western tradition of enlightenment, democracy, freedom, secular (and limited) government, capitalism, and individualism.
Anything else is inferior and will lose in the long run. Just wait and see.
Well, on the subject of immigration to the USA, speaking as an American, we would more than happy to accommodate immigrants from Canada provided the following conditions*, which we demand of all our immigrants, are met:
1. Test positive for a disease that was extirpated in the West decades ago. Tuberculosis is presently the most fashionable. Personally I could always go for a bit of cholera, but I don’t make the rules.
2. Possess limited (or better yet, zero) fluency in the English language. Bonus points are awarded to those who insist that the natives are the backward and unsophisticated ones for not knowing your language.
3. Ability to shame the local cockroach population for its comparatively low fertility rate.
4. Willingness to cross-contaminate strawberry and lettuce fields after using makeshift latrines between the crop rows. We all love a good outbreak of Salmonella or E. coli.
5. This is perhaps the most important trait in a good immigrant, but the most difficult to define. The best description is an aggressive ridicule and deprecation of the host culture’s traditions whilst simultaneously demanding equal prominence and respect for the very cultural attributes that led to ones home country being the sort of place everyone wants to emigrate from in the first place.
These conditions admittedly seem a bit strict, but it’s not like we can afford to let in just any old thing that washes up, like educated Europeans with valuable professional skills. Yuck!
* (The above conditions can be waived if one registers Democrat)
What about us on the godless right?
I am of the persuasion that believes that Freedom of Religion also means Freedom FROM Religion.
I am a half-breed from the West-Coast whose Grandfather came back from WW1 minus one of three brothers and a plate in his head. He had no use for Sky-Pilots who took pride in blessing useless attacks that cost thousands of fellow Canadians.
The closest I ever got to religion was when my Grandmother told Jehovas Witnesses that we were Catholic.
They are my heroes and proudly so.
Stoop @ 11:48: “The moment these national anthems start resonating with citizens in other countries, it means that the citizens amongst whom it resonates, now identify more with the other nation than they do with their own.”
===================
Utter bullshit. I’ve had a very longstanding interest in National Anthems from around the globe. I think the American NA is one of the finest. Le Marseillaise is stirring. So is the Russian NA, even though I don’t understand a word of it, and the Australian. Anthems are meant to be stirring, inspiring pride and unity. No matter what the words are, the music itself, it’s tempo in particular, is fascinating. A great many, though, don’t measure up on that score.
And, BTW, I detest the modern inclination to jazz up the singing of a national anthem as though it was meant to be some lounge act or top-ten chart topper.
As far as this guy and his patriotic outburst is concerned, good on him. America is the whipping boy of the world, and it’s good to see her citizens can still be proud of who they are and what they believe in. We couldn’t ask for a better neighbour, as far as I’m concerned, and that doesn’t mean we won’t or shouldn’t have the occasional spat. You know as well as I do, if the USA went down the tube, Canada would fall right in on top of them.
KevinS at 12:25 AM, LOL!!
Surely it must be easier if we cross the right border, no?
canuck49 – You can be proud that you’ve been associated even as little as that, to being Catholic. I mean it’s better than worshiping salmon or eagles and the like.
That was beautiful.
From the way he sang to the way the people reacted, that brought tears to my eyes.
Beautiful.
Absolutely awsome! There is hope. Not that ‘hope and change, thing, but real honest to goodness hope.
Same here, Irene Swain.
Wow great to hear from 2nd verse Americans.
Have you heard the 4th verse of O’Canada?
Ruler supreme, who hearest humble prayer,
Hold our dominion within thy loving care;
Help us to find, O God, in thee
A lasting, rich reward,
As waiting for the Better Day,
We ever stand on guard.
Refrain
God keep our land glorious and free; etc.
Absolutely stunning. G*d bless this marine!
Yes, Jeanette, we in Canada also acknowledge G*d in our national anthem and sing a number of times in the first verse:
G*d keep our land, glorious and free.
Amen!
It’s time for Canadians to step up to the plate and to speak truth to lies. We need to remind people, young and old, that we, like the U.S., are a nation under G*d — He shall have dominion from sea to sea (Psalm 72:8).
‘No more bullying from the G*dless Left. STAND ON GUARD, Canadians!
Gives me chills. I live in Georgia and have the privilege of listening to Herman Cain 5 nights a week. Got to hermancain.com and check out his intelligent thinkers movement.
When was the last time a Canadian heard Maple Leaf Forever? Instead, we have ultra left and uber feminists trying to change the lyrics to O Canada to be become more “gender neutral”.
We should sing all verses to anthems whenever given the opportunity. It would add clarity and context and enforce the Judeo-Christian roots of our respective nations.
Oh yeah: for his age, dude can sing. Booya!
Heartwarming and inspiring! So true! That lifted my spirits on Monday morning.
Radical right wing jealot!! – sarc off
Right on Jeanette, now I’m not American, but while he sang that my screen went all fuzzy, wonder what made that happen?
— But what about the first line in the first verse? Are they not celebrating diversity and accommodation of illegal immigration, when the crowd stands and with hat over heart ask if “José can you see”. Obviously the crowd at the game were worried that José in the cheap bleachers had a clear view of the infield.
That’s touching.
Ever hear the (I think) 6th verse of ‘God Save the King’?
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
That was great. The fourth verse of O’Canada is great also. Too bad we never sing it. The Liberals would probably scream and holler blue murder.
And yet, the US DoI and US constitution are the prime examples of classical liberal thought, including principles such as separation of church and state, individual rights over collective rights, etc, and of course God is nowhere to be found in the US Constitution (unlike in the poor Canadian version).
Which is all not that strange since the founding fathers were essentially deists and of course classical liberals.
Religion is and should be a personal thing, nothing more, nothing less.
Unfortunately, later Congress inserted the “under God” part in the pledge of allegiance. The founding fathers would certainly have objected!
Actually, this is a very popular sentiment in a most small towns across the United States.
The Declaration of Independence states that we are endowed by a Creator with inalienable rights. So our founding fathers recognized the existence of a Creator and defined the relationship of that Creator with Americans. As a consequence, there has always been a close relationship in American life with the concept of a “creator”, however one wishes to define it.
Once a Marine? Always a Marine.
Brought tears to my eyes. Rumours of America’s demise have been greatly exaggerated…
I pissed myself watching that. Yeeeehawwwwww!
“Religion is and should be a personal thing, nothing more, nothing less.”
Such a fatuous statement makes about as much sense as saying, “Politics is and should be a personal thing, nothing more, nothing less.”
John i Kanada: IMHO you are relying on revisionist history a fact in both the U.S.A. and in Canada. Cheers; Mike Sr.
Curious,
you never refer to a Marine as a “ex-Marine”. Former Marine is simply a short-hand way of saying that one is a Marine formerly serving as an active duty Marine and now serving in civilian life.
Perfect.Beautiful. Amen.
I’ll defer to you Greg.
One of my neighbours was a tunnel rat in Nam. He diligently replaces his Corps colours and the Stars and Stripes on his flagpole every year.
He doesn’t say much. But you don’t dis the Corps in earshot of him. Our “Jarhead” and “Doggie” banter leaves a few folks wondering when the fisticuffs will commence on the shop floor.
Couldn’t you just feel the hate and bigotry dripping from the guy as he sang that?
Tea Party? I wonder how many Canadians would come out to a Tea Party event?
Or we could just continue along with Ottawa’s plan to make us all surrender monkeys. Oh, I almost forgot, very polite surrender monkeys.
That man needs more exposure, he should be invited to the sporting events in the area and really get the crowds going.
Instead of a tea-party, we need a Canadian Coffee Klatch.
Larry: “Tea Party? I wonder how many Canadians would come out to a Tea Party event?”
When Preston Manning held one out here in the Wet Coast, I think the attendance was over 1500. The Hall was at maximum capacity with people standing outside.
Bring on a tea party at Avenue Road and Bloor Street and I’LL BE THERE.
Unfortunately, I was out of town this weekend or I would have been at Avenue Road and Bloor Street, standing with the Jewish people outside their embassy.
I’ve been there before, last winter. Boy, was it COLD.
Outstanding !!!!!
,
I have noticed the same ones who think In God We Trust should be stricken or the same ones who stand behind Helen Thomas.
“The Declaration of Independence states that we are endowed by a Creator with inalienable rights. So our founding fathers recognized the existence of a Creator and defined the relationship of that Creator with Americans.”
Yes, but Johann i Kanada notes that they were deists. The difference between deists and ‘christians’ is that deists believe in an impersonal God. They essentially answer the old question “Where did we come from?” by attributing it to an unknown force, known as the creator. The deist creator has no interest in your prays or whether you believe in Jesus. It is just an unknown force that has to be named. One that (who?) really isn’t interested in saving America, or any country for that matter.
Mike Sr.
The works of the founding fathers are well known. Read their original words in their original handwriting at the Library of Congress, and you will realize that the majority of them were deists who were very disaffected by the Christian exclusivism – which makes sense, given that that America was essentially a safe haven for European victims of religious persecution. The idea of a faith that contradicts the idea of “all men are born equal” by dividing humanity into believers and non-belivers on the basis of their belief in Jesus did not make sense to the founding fathers. They had a very real understanding of the Catholic persecution of protestants and vice versa, which no longer makes sense to us. Bloody Mary was not, after all, named after an alchoholic beverage. She ordered murders in the name of religion. Incidentally, as sovereign, she was also the ‘state’. Thats where the founding fathers were coming from.
Jefferson is the most famous of the deists and rightly so. He propagated the separation of church and state. And for that, the great state of Texas recently voted to diminish his role in their history textbooks. Guess who the revisionist is? But please, don’t let the facts get in the way of your ideology.
As for the genius who equates politics and religion, I feel obligated to tell you that there is a religion that believes what you do. That religion and politics are in some way equal. Its called Islam. Feel free to convert.
I’ve never understood the SDA obsession with America. If you guys love America so much that you get tears in your eyes when they sing their national anthem, why don’t you immigrate? The manner in which it resonates with some of you suggests that you belong there, not here.
Despite the fact that most of the founding fathers were Protestant, they insisted that the Creator be universal enough for people of many faiths to feel connected to American life.
Although there were some deists who would also feel comfortable under the US’s idea that spirit is supreme, as a principle the fact that they insisted that we are “endowed” by inalienable rights qualifies an impersonal speculation.
We are endowed with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, among others. This suggests opportunities created and held in store as an endowment perhaps the way a deceased father would make certain that his children were provided for.
The fact that these qualities are endowed to American citizens by a Creator removes the proposition somewhat from a strictly deistic point of view, depending on how you were defining deism. The founding fathers were not trying to start a new religion, and some people refer to their point of view as natural philosophy. But they definitely enshrined the idea that spirit is supreme.
For example, Emerson and Thoreau years later would feel very comfortable with the founding fathers’ assertion in respect to a Creator.
Many people in different religions have felt comfortable with the American outlook with their different religious voices.
I’ve never understood the SDA obsession with America. If you guys love America so much that you get tears in your eyes when they sing their national anthem, why don’t you immigrate? The manner in which it resonates with some of you suggests that you belong there, not here.
This statement is offensive at the highest level. Canada is born of the same origins as the US, and while our governments diverged, our peoples did not. Many of my need to understand that we are ALL americans in North America. Leave your puerile bigotry and your moral relativism in the gutter where it belongs.
Not sure what happened to my previous post, but I’ll run it again…
I’ve never understood the SDA obsession with America. If you guys love America so much that you get tears in your eyes when they sing their national anthem, why don’t you immigrate? The manner in which it resonates with some of you suggests that you belong there, not here.
This statement is offensive at the highest level. Canada is born of the same origins as the US, and while our governments diverged, our peoples did not. Many of my (Cdn) relatives emigrated to the States to assist in the building of their industry, some served in the Marines as yanks, fought alongside of them in a great many wars, but they are not now and never will be anyhing but Canadians, regardless what their papers say. Many, many Americans have done the same here. Draft dodgers in the 60s weren’t the only Americans to come to Canada.
If you know anything about Ontario, you know its roots are as much out of Pennsylvania and Ohio as they are out of England, Ireland, South Asia, or any other place. You need to understand that we are ALL americans in North America. Leave your puerile bigotry and your moral relativism in the gutter where it belongs.
“Despite the fact that most of the founding fathers were Protestant, they insisted that the Creator be universal enough for people of many faiths to feel connected to American life.”
This was the only reality for the new US in the 1700s. A very large percentage of immigrants to the colonies were religious refugees of all faiths. An inclusive position and document was the only way a governmental organization was going to be able to function. I would suggest that the founding fathers were more pragmatists than deists. Certainly learned men of the day could easily recognize the religious bigotry that lead to much of US colonization.
Politically, I’m as conservative as they make ’em – far more conservative than Harper and his retread Mulronyites. However, if being conservative means worshipping God, Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, you exclude me from your club.
Some of the postings on this thread are as off-putting as the Allah rants of the mad mullahs. Give it a rest folks and remember the words of your prophet about rendering unto Caesar.
And to top it all off, he has a great voice.
stoop at 5:39 PM: “I’ve never understood the SDA obsession with America. If you guys love America so much that you get tears in your eyes when they sing their national anthem, why don’t you immigrate? The manner in which it resonates with some of you suggests that you belong there, not here.”
=====================
It never fails to amaze me that the practitioners of virulent Anti-Americanism in Canada can’t see the bigotry in their words. Always pointing their arrogant fingers at those who don’t hold fast to the same prejudice, they fail to notice that three of their fingers are pointing back at themselves.
Stuff it where the sun don’t shine, a$$hole.
Besides, when you leave your country of origin the word is “emigrate”.
Zog,
Three points;
1. Jesus is our God. Not a prophet, not a fairy tale.
2. If beheading “Allahu Akbar” shouters equal Prince of Peace followers in your mind, then your head is wasted on your shoulders.
3. Render unto God, the things that are God’s; all your heart and all your soul and all your strength and all your mind.
Skip,
“This statement is offensive at the highest level.”
How is it offensive? Nationalism is inherently exclusive. The entire notion is built on the premise that one ‘nation’ is distinct from another. National symbols, anthems, flags etc are chosen in order to highlight the distinct nature of each nation. They are chosen in a manner that takes into account their ability to resonate with the vast majority of the people. Therefore, it stands to reason, that national symbols, anthems etc are inherently distinct and are meant to resonate amongst one group of people.
The moment these national anthems start resonating with citizens in other countries, it means that the citizens amongst whom it resonates, now identify more with the other nation than they do with their own. In other words, their Canadian ‘national’ identity has been trumped by the American national identity, by virtue of their attraction to, and apparent willingness to adopt, American symbols. It goes without saying that the nation is ultimately an artificial construct and that by virtue of adopting another nations symbols, you are undermining your own nation’s foundation. If we are all ‘Americans’, why have a Canada at all?
And what is wrong with suggesting that you immigrate? If you feel so strongly about the American national anthem etc, its clear where your heart is. By all means, let your body follow.
I fail to see where I have indulged in bigotry (I never said Canadians, Americans, South Asians, Pennsylvanians etc are bad or anything. I just said that if you feel such a strong emotional attachment to symbols that are inherently exclusive, then go and immerse yourself in the exclusivity wholeheartedly. Where is the moral relativism?
Louise,
“It never fails to amaze me that the practitioners of virulent Anti-Americanism in Canada can’t see the bigotry in their words.”
Where did I say anything offensive about the US? Where did I say anything anti-American? I daresay that I would have said the exact same thing to you if you had said you had tears in your eyes when you heard the Chinese/Indian/Jamaican/Russian national anthem. Would that make me anti-American too? You are accusing me of being anti-American when I haven’t said anything anti-American, beyond suggesting that some of you put your money where your mouth, tears and heart is. How that is anti-American is beyond me. Knee-jerk reaction. I know its a favorite pastime here to accuse Canadians of having knee-jerk anti-American reactions, but it seems that some here have no control over their knees. National anthems are ‘national’ anthems. If other nation’s national anthems are evoking such a strong response in you, its best you go join that nation.
As for putting things where the sun don’t shine, I’d best keep my things and body parts as far away as possible from your apparent residence.
“Besides, when you leave your country of origin the word is “emigrate”.”
Immigrate to. Emigrate from.
I am not advising them to emigrate from Canada in general, I am asking them to immigrate to the US, where their heart is.
Is “Stoop” short for stupid or has it something to do with your carriage or is your back stoop your soap box. I admire that the yanks are so patriotic, no matter their political ideology. I love their emotionalism, we could use more ourselves. If Canada was as involved in world affairs as much (per capita) as Americans, we’d have reason to be emotional too; someday we may. I feel the pride of the British when I read their history too, and conversley with the Irish in their fight against British repression. So what?
Skip,
You write “Leave your puerile bigotry and your moral relativism in the gutter where it belongs”.
as response to people who provide some historical and political perspective re: deism, founding fathers, etc).
Who, actually, is the bigot here?
And how exactly is providing some historical perspective proof of “moral relativism”?
As an “atheist protestant”, and classical liberal, I feel very much as home when I read the founding fathers and their US DoI and Constitution.
And I certainly do not subscribe to an sort of moral relativism.
To my mind, there is one clearly superior political & cultural tradition, i.e. the Western tradition of enlightenment, democracy, freedom, secular (and limited) government, capitalism, and individualism.
Anything else is inferior and will lose in the long run. Just wait and see.
Well, on the subject of immigration to the USA, speaking as an American, we would more than happy to accommodate immigrants from Canada provided the following conditions*, which we demand of all our immigrants, are met:
1. Test positive for a disease that was extirpated in the West decades ago. Tuberculosis is presently the most fashionable. Personally I could always go for a bit of cholera, but I don’t make the rules.
2. Possess limited (or better yet, zero) fluency in the English language. Bonus points are awarded to those who insist that the natives are the backward and unsophisticated ones for not knowing your language.
3. Ability to shame the local cockroach population for its comparatively low fertility rate.
4. Willingness to cross-contaminate strawberry and lettuce fields after using makeshift latrines between the crop rows. We all love a good outbreak of Salmonella or E. coli.
5. This is perhaps the most important trait in a good immigrant, but the most difficult to define. The best description is an aggressive ridicule and deprecation of the host culture’s traditions whilst simultaneously demanding equal prominence and respect for the very cultural attributes that led to ones home country being the sort of place everyone wants to emigrate from in the first place.
These conditions admittedly seem a bit strict, but it’s not like we can afford to let in just any old thing that washes up, like educated Europeans with valuable professional skills. Yuck!
* (The above conditions can be waived if one registers Democrat)
What about us on the godless right?
I am of the persuasion that believes that Freedom of Religion also means Freedom FROM Religion.
I am a half-breed from the West-Coast whose Grandfather came back from WW1 minus one of three brothers and a plate in his head. He had no use for Sky-Pilots who took pride in blessing useless attacks that cost thousands of fellow Canadians.
The closest I ever got to religion was when my Grandmother told Jehovas Witnesses that we were Catholic.
They are my heroes and proudly so.
Stoop @ 11:48: “The moment these national anthems start resonating with citizens in other countries, it means that the citizens amongst whom it resonates, now identify more with the other nation than they do with their own.”
===================
Utter bullshit. I’ve had a very longstanding interest in National Anthems from around the globe. I think the American NA is one of the finest. Le Marseillaise is stirring. So is the Russian NA, even though I don’t understand a word of it, and the Australian. Anthems are meant to be stirring, inspiring pride and unity. No matter what the words are, the music itself, it’s tempo in particular, is fascinating. A great many, though, don’t measure up on that score.
And, BTW, I detest the modern inclination to jazz up the singing of a national anthem as though it was meant to be some lounge act or top-ten chart topper.
As far as this guy and his patriotic outburst is concerned, good on him. America is the whipping boy of the world, and it’s good to see her citizens can still be proud of who they are and what they believe in. We couldn’t ask for a better neighbour, as far as I’m concerned, and that doesn’t mean we won’t or shouldn’t have the occasional spat. You know as well as I do, if the USA went down the tube, Canada would fall right in on top of them.
KevinS at 12:25 AM, LOL!!
Surely it must be easier if we cross the right border, no?
canuck49 – You can be proud that you’ve been associated even as little as that, to being Catholic. I mean it’s better than worshiping salmon or eagles and the like.