Toronto and Dubai: Emirates airline is fighting attempts by a Canadian government ministry to limit both its and Etihad’s access to the country, despite Canada’s official “open skies” policy.
Under the policy, foreign carriers are supposed to be actively encouraged to begin services to Canadian destinations. Transport Canada, the federal ministry responsible for enforcing the policy, is actively trying to prevent both UAE airlines from gaining more access to the Canadian market.
Currently, Emirates and Etihad services are limited to a combined six flights a week from the UAE to Toronto. In the autumn, Emirates moved from a Boeing 777 aircraft to an Airbus A380 superjumbo to accommodate greater passenger loads.
Both UAE carriers want to increase the number of flights weekly and add other destinations, including the oil-industry centre of Calgary and Vancouver, site of the 2010 Winter Olympics in February.
[…]
Despite the airlines’ efforts and the support of political leaders, officials at Transport Canada are discouraging the increase in services… [Their objections include] suggesting that the rapid expansion and success of Arabian Gulf carriers, enabled by the backing of various GCC governments, is leading to “unhealthy competition and irrational commercial behaviour”.
h/t Glen
Between bookstores, movie theatres, airlines, magazines, cable, banks, booze (depending on province,) cell phones, insurance companies and any number of other industries:
Just how much does government protectionism and corporate rent-seeking cost each of us per year?
Leading to “unhealthy competition” actually means leading to competition. As for “irrational commercial behaviour”, one can only guess what that is supposed to mean, since rational commercial behaviour is not defined.
Soooo, we have open skies unless it results in competition. I think I get it.
Can these gulf centered airlines operate on their own and charge fares that are not subsidized by government infusion of monies? In order to compete Air Canada would be back to the taxpayers for cash to reduce their fares. We the Canadian taxpayer (ie our Government) need to be vary careful in allowing foreign sponsored airlines into Canada without having a level playing field.
Yeah we sure wouldn’t want competition for the flying public. No No No we want a monopoly for Scare Canada. Having worked for Transport Canada, it doesn’t surprise me they made such an incoherent statement. Talk about Big Brother. Irrational behaviour pretty much describes government these days.
Emirates is an excellent carrier, and Dubai is a great airport.
Perhaps if AC bothered with customer service (in all respects) it wouldn’t be so scared of the competition.
The new airlines, from ME and Asia (such as Emirates, Qatar, Jet, Kingfisher,…) beat AC, United, Luftwaffe, and rest in all areas.
(Including their air hostesses, who are so much nicer – hard to compete for the 50+ year olds with a bad attitude at AC/United/Luftwaffe…)
Why worry about airlines, let’s open the border to non price fixed Milk and chicken…
I’d like to hear both sides of the story before forming an opinion about DOT’s motives. So far we only seem to be hearing from “Gulf”-biased sources like Gulfnews and TheNational. The latter includes the following statement in it’s coverage: …efforts have so far have been blocked by the Canadian government to protect the country’s ailing flag carrier, Air Canada, which depends on lucrative international traffic to India and elsewhere after facing stiff competition from a domestic rival, Jetstar… which is probably biased and certainly not fact-checked.
If we have to have ANY government-subsidized airlines flying in Canadian skies, they should be Canadian ones.
Given my druthers, I’d take Westjet over Air Canada any day of the week. I did fly the latter to L.A. last January. The connecting flight from Duh!-ronto was late, so they generously gave us passengers a free drink to sooth our ruffled nerves. But if we wished to have a sandwich to go with that free drink, we had to PAY for it, by golly.
And it might paint me as a bigot, but I’d prefer not to fly in an aircraft piloted by a Muslim, regardless of how competent he might be, simply because the inherent fatalism of Islam can crop up so unexpectedly.
Normally I’m open to free trade. I wish we had some between Provinces and our Southern Neighbor.
But open skies to a region with poor security and wads of dollars in their hands scares me a little. I definitely do not want to see open competition for land (with our young families) in Canada from countries where westerners are shunned, and masses of bogus refugees landing in our airports.
Don’t forget; their airlines are subsidized by oil dollars. They couldn’t run an outhouse in a Saskatchewan February, so don’t talk of open competition.
“And it might paint me as a bigot, but I’d prefer not to fly in an aircraft piloted by a Muslim, regardless of how competent he might be, simply because the inherent fatalism of Islam can crop up so unexpectedly.”
It is more than likely that the pilots of these airlines are principally British, European and American.
As an aircraft maintenance engineer with an “S” rating being structural , i can only say this ..that canada has an outstanding record when it comes to aircraft accident’s we are not perfect ,but i must say as a federally regulated enginieer licenced by the federal govornment ..it is time for a raise i make at the very maximum 35/hr that is also with crappy benifit’s buti am happy to have any at all as it is very uncommon in avaiation beleive it or not and if heathly competition will bring more maintenance and more job’s maybe it will drive up wages in the maintenance field and just a warning everyone who chooses to read my terrible gramamr and spelling and the rest …ask your self would you be willing to pay say maybe an extra 50-100 dollars per ticket if it meant you knew that your airplane was being properly maintained and the workers fixing your plane were happy to do so, if you reply yes then start writting to transport canada and let them know we in this industry for over 20 years have been at the same top wage and while 20 years ago 35/hr was an excellent wage it just deosn’t cut it anymore where the median home is still close to 400k here in calgary alberta or in toronto it is more , just a statistic if i was willing to risk my head over sea’s in dubai or saudi i can easily make 50/hr plus bonuses U.S. unfortunatley i am not willing to support terrist airline funded by terroist money it runs the whole machine so when air canada and westjet start asking for a maintenance fee plee think of the guy installing the four bolt’s that hold the wing onto the fuselage and smile at that and say great ..but they will never do that so don’t worry they will just keep us pissed off and cut our throat’s to compete for your dollar iti s well known in many industries that when competition is fierce they slash wages first and then think of any other way to save money for the consumer ..so yeah that is my tid bit i like competition ,but i don’t like being short changed and yes i have looked at other careers but at this time it would be a huge risk …just a thought .
Paul
And rememebr as well that the UAE was all started with U.S. dollars for oil the same dollars that funded the 9/11 attacks in a round about way the saudis are the dirties liars out there they are playing very nasty and are not telling the truth the whole airline industry in saudi has been started by U.S.s oil money the saudis fund thing’s like UAE and they fund thing’s like the taliban and bin laden so i really don’t care if they come here or not ..i personally don’t want them here i wouldl ike to see air canada start flying there more often that is safer for everyone !!!
Paul
So let’s see if a Canadian Government owned entity like say the Mint wants to sell to other countries it’s OK. But if a government sponsored airline from another country (which is profitable) which Emirates appears to be wants to sell to Canadians we need to prevent them from doing so.
The assertion that a foreign government is going to subsidize airline fares for Canadians seems absurd to me. Even if they do subsidize Canadian fares they won’t be able to do so for very long.
Dubai is also an important international hub for the Middle East, Asia and Europe. Having more direct flights there is good for Canadian business.
Again why would you allow an airline to fly out of Toronto, but not Vancouver or Calgary. I don’t see the logic in that.
I’m not sure that the A380 can even land/turn-around at Canadian airports yet due to it’s massive size. Does anyone know if this is still the case?
It is more than likely that the pilots of these airlines are principally British, European and American. ~ JJM at 2:21 PM
A cursory look at the Emirates pilot cadre would indicate that, even if this were currently true, it won’t be the case for long. This corroborates my experience in the aviation-third-world where fledgling carriers hire ex-pat captains with the intent to operate while upgrading their own people.
Leaving aside the (somewhat questionable) Transport Canada “reasons”, I can’t say I disapprove of their actions in this case.
Given 9/11, do I really want giant airplanes from Arab countries flying around over my head? Plus their safety record is crap.
glsnost is correct …that is exactly what they do with pilot’s it is also what they do with the aircrft mechanics n dubai ..they hire us here and we go there work andm ake all them oney we teach them and then they get rid of us …either by firing us or beheading us …lol o.k. maybe not beheading but there was a guy in algeria who was hit with an R.P.G. i know this for a fact becasue my friend went there to work and when he asked where the other mechanic was they said to him that he was his replacment becasue he was hit with a R.P.G. and blown to shiite!!! alalalalaalalalaalalalal!!!! allaahhh akkkbarrr…..
And to answer your question SMITTY there are some runway’s that can land the planes …but it is the off loading of the passengers that is the biggest problem for alot of airports right now ..as the 380 has 2 levels and the docking stations at almost every airport in canda has only to port’s where they need 4 2 upper and 2 lower …so that is the biggest issue right now ..but definatley the runway and parking are still issues at alot of airports all over the world they added an extra gear leg i beleive it was ten tires in totla to prevent the wieght from tearing up runway’s ….hmm that’s the last i herd anyway . and yes we should be flying air canada to dubai and UAE more frequently i would feel much much safer that way and it wil expand our aviation industry …ohh wait the plane will be empty going there and will be LOADED comming back …yeah that won’t work either …hmm i have to say i agree with transport canada with the terroist factor in there i think they are definatly looking out for us ..and it just so happens that they are protection there money pit known as air canada to hoe convienient.
OHH YEAH AND BYE THE SLAP CHOP…FUNIEST COMMERCIAL OUT THERE RIGHT NOW “YOUR GONNA LOVE MY NUT’S ” “I’M GONNA MAKE YOU SKINNY AGAIN AMERICA ONE SLAP AT A TIME”
Paul calgary .
Smitty, the C5 Galaxy, the B-52 and the Antonov 124 Condor can land, taxi and take off at little old Hamilton airport. I’ve seen them do it. The Airbus A380 is much smaller than any of those, particularly the Antonov. That thing is … big!
Smitty : The A380 Landed in Vancouver during its trials and Toronto can handle the airliner as well.
A380 Lands in Vancouver
Now on the subject, there is no really good explanation for this that makes any sense, none at all. It is simply a USA DHS pressure point on the cross border security and stupid flight origination guidlines being dictated by an US Administration that actually believe the 9-11 terrorists came into the USA via Canada.
The first thing that popped into my head was, they want more access to Canada, is that going to mean that they are bringing a s*&&load of refugee claiming dregs of the ME? They are well aware Canada is a sucker for refugee status, this is a chance to offload their undesirable rabble rousers.
See phantom explain to these people why i also agree with transport canada ..ohh and another little known fact …the saudi prince was landing his 747 over in dubai and another airline was waiting to taxi while they were waiting for the prince to arrive the plane caught fire some how and instaead of evacuating the airplane they were told to stay put and wait till the prince landed …247 people burnalive that day in saudi so the prince could land his plane ….nice real nice people someone i would like to do buisness with and speaking of buisness why do we or americans ..why don’t we shut everything middle eastern down and feed each other through out the western world as well as india,china and other countries we don’t need suadi or the arab world to survive so why are we even pandering to these crazy people .who wear boss hog’s bib on there heads.
See phantom explain to these people why i also agree with transport canada ..ohh and another little known fact …the saudi prince was landing his 747 over in dubai and another airline was waiting to taxi while they were waiting for the prince to arrive the plane caught fire some how and instaead of evacuating the airplane they were told to stay put and wait till the prince landed …247 people burnalive that day in saudi so the prince could land his plane ….nice real nice people someone i would like to do buisness with and speaking of buisness why do we or americans ..why don’t we shut everything middle eastern down and feed each other through out the western world as well as india,china and other countries we don’t need suadi or the arab world to survive so why are we even pandering to these crazy people .who wear boss hog’s bib on there heads.and reata mcniels bed sheet’s
I wrote about this on my blog a few weeks ago. The real travesty is that No Canadian carrier flies to the gulf… So who exactly is the government protecting? Air Canada’s cut of bookings that are operated on Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Dubai?
Give us Emirates and Etihad, please!
Thanks for the input all. I guess there is no longer a “technical” reason to keep the A380s out of Canada.
Jason sums up my POV nicely.
That being said, immigration and off path Jumbo jets are a valid concern but I doubt that is Transport Canada’s motive.
Posted by: The Phantom at July 27, 2009 2:54 PM
You ain’t kidding, Phantom. I worked at a place that was on final approach to Pearson, and was stuck at a light one day when the Condor came in for a landing. Everybody got out of their cars to watch it – it was immense. Hard to believe something that big could stay in the air!
One other place I worked was about 300 yards from touchdown on one of Pearson’s runways; you could almost hit a plane with a sand wedge if you really got under it. I was talking to the boss one day in his office (which faced planes on final approach) and I noticed he was giving me the “thousand yard stare”. I was about to ask what was wrong, when he pointed out his window. The Concord was floating in on final, nose-up and as graceful as a bird. That was about the sweetest thing I think I ever saw up-close, aeronautically-speaking… *sigh* What a plane.
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
“need to be vary careful in allowing foreign sponsored airlines into Canada without having a level playing field.”
Teddie, by a level playing field do you mean when Air Canada purchases some of the nice new Airbus jets?
I can’t see how this could hurt Canadian carriers, really the only international carrier is AirCanada and only Canadians are stupid enough to fly on Air Canada.
If anything increasing flights increases domestic travel on domestic carriers. These flights are not cheap, even if they are subsidized, its bringing people who wish to do buisness or spend money with Canadians.
The paranoia about refuges, first that shouldn’t be part of Transport Canada’s problem and second reducing flights (or not expanding) is not got solve the systemic problem with the refugee system. If I recall most of the middle east requires visas to begin with.
how about we keep every airline from any islamic country out of our country.
Lower standards and mins for pilots is one concern I have. Another is aircraft maintanance, there record is not exactly sparkly. I’d rather not do business with them, whose’s next Nigeria?
Emirates is a well-regarded international airline known for superior in-flight service. Could it be they are not unionized, and Air Canada and its cadre of surly crew are unwilling to compete on price or service?
Emirates and Etihad are predators backed by gubmint money. Their fuel prices are subsidized and they treat their employees like crap.
Take a look at the Emirates A-340 incident at Melbourne a few months ago. Crew miscalculated take off weight by 100 tons and came within inches of killing 250 people.
There are few business travellers between here and Dubai. Most of the traffic is people transiting to India/Pak etc. This is the market Emirates wants to lock up with their subsidized fares and cut out the other carriers. Transport Canada made the right decision.
?
competition is unhealthy?
?
p.s. grobe: if crew competence is the issue, maybe transport canuckistan should go at them from THAT angle, not this farcical end run.
anything else and the mandarins @ T.C. are just attempting to enlarge their empire and sphere (get the pun!) of quasi-authority.
…transport canuckistan should go at them from THAT angle, not this farcical end run.
What exactly is the “end run” involved here and where are you getting your info?
My only concern is when they start to ban booze, dogs, pigs or anything not sharia. Will Women be forced to cover up if they dominate the Air transport?
We know where fighting two wars with this group. One by Islamic Jihadists using our own Laws against us with mmassive immigration to back up their culture. Than you have the whip, the terrorists to force dhimitude by horror. All to force submission to Sharia law. Backed by Saudi Arabian money.
While we pay for our own extermination.
JMO
Uh oh. Does this mean that even DNA is not settled science? Makes me wish that I majored in debunkery rather than debauchery.
Uh oh. Wrong thread.
“I can’t see how this could hurt Canadian carriers, really the only international carrier is AirCanada and only Canadians are stupid enough to fly on Air Canada.”
I flew to London in March via Air Canada – the service was fine and there were a number of passports from outside of Canada there and back.
I have flown WestJet in Canada for years but am starting to reconsider. They treat people from Sask. with little respect – almost every flight goes through Calgary, even going east and few direct flights. That and taking away AirMiles make the AC option almost paltable – until they lose my bag again!
Just reading in Travel + Leisure magazine about the top ten air carriers and find Scare Canada strangely missing, although those nasty Emirates folks were in the list. Go figure.
Maybe…just maybe…there’s a question as how to confirm the quality of the screening process….??…after all…our border crossing locations have been known to have been porous in the past !!…?
I must be missing something. Are you guys saying it’s a good thing to give Arabs more access to Canadian airspace? Are you kidding?
Some commenters show a staggering ignorance about the world and world affairs.
– Of course A380 can land at YYZ (I was on one just a few weeks back).
– An overwhelming majority (something like 90%) of Dubai’s population are foreigners.
– Emirates, Etihad, and Qatar airlines (e.g.) provide excellent flights and connections to the ME as well as Asia. This is essential for tourism as well as trade & business.
– And they are good airlines, with good customer service. This is what beats competition.
– The Emirates crew is extremely mixed, 1-2 dubai arabs perhaps, but then a cocktail of europeans, australians, filipinos, russians, japanese, chinese, etc etc. Is this a problem?
– Dubai, and Emirates, are not “dry”, and you do not see much of sharia around. In fact, Dubai is very much westernized (incl Applebees, MacDonalds, and so on). (To get too drunk and have sex on the beach is of course not appreciated (as some brits experienced recently), but anything short of that seems perfectly acceptable.)
– Canada needs to open up to the world. Asia is up and coming (imagine the business potential!), and for us to hide behind AC is totally ridiculous.
“and just a warning everyone who chooses to read my terrible gramamr and spelling and the rest ”
Anyone who admits their spelling and grammar is bad but is to lazy to use a spell checker or to use periods and capitals shouldn’t be working on airplanes.
Horny Toad
I’m with Old white guy and Jim in Calgary and the Phantom etc.. The fewer Muslims, Arabs, whatever,
the better, Nuf of them here now, and it’s not like they’d have a team in the Vancouver Winter Olympics or anything. Jamaican bobsledders are scary enough.
Paul:
Hi buddy. $35/hr? That’s just shy of $70k a year, without overtime. And I would dearly love to hear you expound on exactly why your benefits are “crappy”.
But let me move on to a more serious matter. I would sincerely like to know what airline(s) you work for, and what planes you work on. Because if you apply the same conscientiousness to your work that you do to the spelling, grammar, and general coherence of your posts, I’d prefer to fly on some other planes.
So in summary, the government of Canada loves subsidizing the Canadian airline industry so much that when another goverment is chomping at the bit to do it, they get defensive.
Solution: let them at it. Tax refund time for us… right?
A whole bunch of people have intimated that Air Canada receives a subsidy from the feds; could any of them please point me to a resource which describes the amount and method of payment of such a subsidy? My intarweb searches have come up dry. Thanks for your help.
KevinB, you don’t have to search too hard in the news (or memory) to find out about a history of government bailouts, protectionism, and other general corporate and unionist malfeasance with respect to AC. They will soon be on their 2nd bankruptcy in a decade. Most notable was their $4B bailout after 9/11 preceding what should have been a lethal bankruptcy. But they are just back at it again. Losing money in a monopoly.
Bravo Johan! I was reading the comments and felt the need to clarify some of the misconceptions also. All I would add is that Emirates already flies to New York, Houston, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, so the Americans don’t seem to have any problems. It’s protectionism pure and simple. And regarding the A380, Emirates flies one of theirs to Toronto now (is that how you arrived??), after moving it off the New York route due to insufficient traffic.
Bravo Johan! I was reading the comments and felt the need to clarify some of the misconceptions also. All I would add is that Emirates already flies to New York, Houston, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, so the Americans don’t seem to have any problems. It’s protectionism pure and simple. And regarding the A380, Emirates flies one of theirs to Toronto now (is that how you arrived??), after moving it off the New York route due to insufficient traffic.