Via Ezra, who finds similar sentiments elsewhere on the roll.
Look: a small part of me loves this. The raw partisan within me is rejoicing at seeing the embarrassing degeneration of the Liberal Party.
And that’s where Ezra and I part company.
A large part of me loves this.
I have to disagree with Erza on one point. I hope the Liberals die(the party)! Alberta has done just fine without a Liberal or communist party. Today’s Conservatives are just liberals anyway, ideally the Liberals would be gone and a true “right-wing” party could emerge; or, the Conservatives could move “right” to counter the NDP on the “left” in a two party Parliament. This of course is only viable for the Conservatives if the Liberals are gone. Strategically at this time the Conservatives must continue to suffocate the Liberals by occupying their traditional spot on the political spectrum.
As far as Canada “needs a healthy” Liberal party, I say BS. The Liberals are entitled to exist no more than the “Big Three” here in Canada. They should be self sustained entities or nonentities PERIOD. I can think of PEOPLE in REAL NEED, through no fault of their own, who are more deserving of our charity and limited resources.
World war one was a negotiated settlement, the terms of which evolved into world war 2.
Posted by: the bear at January 7, 2009 8:49 AM
Bravo on that observation the bear!
Is it just me or has anybody noticed how conservatives always take the position of superiority? …always pointing out Liberal folley, pandering and lack of intellligence. …quoting ages old scenarios and denying change. Yet they never take into account their own foibles and the glaring misteps of their own past rightoid champions.
‘Seems’ odd that they can’t atttract enough voters to put together a majority goverment. You’d think such perfect people could assemble something as simple as a viable political party.
Not stirred enough has a bit of a problem. If you support Israel, tell the Liberals, not us. Our support is clear.
ET
You are assuming the Liberal party knows what it is doing right now, or in the past 6 years. They havent had a strategy since JC left.
Iggy is now in the process of being captured by the old guard who will try to install the last strategy that worked. problem is th environment has changed.
I think what you see is mor of an organic process within the Liberal Party. As they were seen as the NGP those groups sought to get inside and influence policy. They will stay one more election, if they lose hen they will focus on the conservatives.
A natural process. But parties that dont explain themselves or governments that dont explain the policy positions leave themselves open to capture. There are reasons Canada’s position is what it is, and has been for many years. But it never gets explained. So conspiracy theorists in some communities, being naturally ahistorical, decide it is about money and influence not priciple or a countires self interest.
I hesitate to say that they take this position because they aren’t “Canadian” enough….probably better stated as some of these groups haven’t bought really bought into what canada is, where its interests lay, whats its history is, who its natural allies are, and where the threats come from.
They see canada as an empty vessel ungrounded and subject to change without consequence.
I would say it is because we dont have these discussions in our schools and we are afraid to offend anyone who has come here by “burdening” them with our history and legacy.
not stirred, You’re right , it’s just you.
It’s always about you, that’s why you’re a leftard.
Thanks for asking.
Ha! The blog post went down the Memory Hole. Typical lefties — straight out of Orwell’s 1984.
‘Seems’ odd that they can’t atttract enough voters to put together a majority goverment. You’d think such perfect people could assemble something as simple as a viable political party.
Posted by: not stirred enough said at January 7, 2009 12:50 PM
not stirred — typical leftie, why let facts stand in the way of good rhetoric, eh?
In Harper’s two minority victories, in 2006 and 2008, the CPC amassed an equal amount of, or more, votes than Chretien did for his majorities in 1997 and 2000.
Vote counts as follows:
CHRETIEN — 1997 — 4,994,277
CHRETIEN — 2000 — 5,252,031
HARPER —- 2006 — 5,374,071
HARPER —- 2008 — 5,208,796
Seems to me the CPC is as viable a party as the LPC ever was. But, I’m sure you’ll come up with some spin to rationalize away the respectable CPC results.
stephen, you might be right but I found your post too ambiguous to be sure of exactly what your points are!
I think that the Liberals have had a policy based around one agenda: Winning Power. That agenda has focused their legislation in parliament.
Multiculturalism as a policy had the agenda of dividing up immigrants into isolate enclaves focused on retaining their old culture rather than integrating into and helping form the Canadian identity. As such, it formed immigrants into closed sectors, dependent on government funding for schools, community centres, special events..all to maintain their old identity in its pristine unchanged nature. In return for funding, they gave their votes to the Liberals.
Since Ontario was the key area of immigration this also balkanized Ontario.
Bilingualism was a strategy to effectively cut off over 80% of the population from working in government office, and move the governance of Canada into the hands of a small mandarin class located in Montreal-Ottawa. This centralization of power of the civil service and bureaucracy reduced the power of the House of Commons. And it set up an emotional infrastructure particularly in Ontario that Quebec was always on the verge of ‘breaking up the country’. To prevent this, Ontarians voted Liberal – for the Liberals set themselves up as Saviours of Canada, with their bilingual focus and immigrant focus.
Other strategies to reduce dissent and questions – which are often followed by cohesion and collaboration – were the Human Rights Act Section 13.1 which silences evaluation and analysis of other people’s social beliefs and practices.
The Liberal location – in Toronto-Montreal-Ottawa also showed us its disdain for ‘regular working class people’. Liberals operate within an elitist ideology, which rests on their belief that they, as Government, know ‘what is best’ and that the people, who are focused only on ‘beer and popcorn’ are best left out of governance.
This elitism also shows in their insistence on Big Government rather than private enterprise and individual initiative to deal with business and social issues.
So, I think that Liberals have a clear agenda in obtaining and maintaining political power; they simply don’t have any policies or interest in the well-being of Canada and Canadians.
Finally, a protected segment that I can make some cash with. I will be launching my Human Rights Complaint against Sid Ryan later this afternoon.
Oh wait. Israelis and Jews aren’t protected right? Or is it just anything a Muslim says that is protected. I get so confused….
not stirred enough said : ‘Seems’ odd that they can’t atttract enough voters to put together a majority goverment.
………
Thing is, there’s more of them/you…..that’s why they’re called ‘The Masses’.
not stirred enough, I reiterate: tunnels in the sand you can drive a school bus through.
I don’t have to “take a position of superiority”. All I have to do is point out a couple of inconvenient facts, and the Liberal argument crumbles. Yet Liberals continue on with it, unshakable.
Heedless is what Liberals are.
ET,
Point was that the Liberal Party has been sooo focussed on short term issues, i agree it is all about power, that there has been no long term strategy in play.
I think what you see is happenstance and not because there are conscious forces directing the Liberal Party.
So to say they are abandoning the Jewish community (whatever that is) to chase the Muslim community (whatver that is) isnt accurate. They have been a ship without a keel or a rudder for awhile.
We will see what Ignatieff does. But the problem he has is that trying to dust off the old strategy assumes the environmen, externally and within the party is the same. it isnt. the characters you identified have showed up and I supect it will be difficult for the Liberal party to reconcile these positions.
Dont assume there is a directing mind behind where the Liberals appear to be today. Where they are is where the are. Their process going forward is not going to be pretty, on the Israeli issue ( a traditional Liberal point) in particular.
Not stirred
‘Seems’ odd that they can’t atttract enough voters to put together a majority goverment.
I’d like to add, seems odd the Liberals can’t put forth a coalition without separatists.
“said Kent, who rejected any suggestion Israel’s response to Hamas’s rocket attacks has been disproportionate.”
Mississauga Matt, thanks.
“Proportionate response, Proportionate response!!”
Yeah I hated the concept and couldn’t get behind any way to fight other than kill all the enemy as fast as possible with a minimum of harm to our side in the beginning too.
Now, however “Proportionate response ” makes sense to me.
This can be a win win if we just concede the point.
Canada has lost 100 brave soldiers in Afganistan and for the sake of argument killed let’s say, 10,000 goat coveting Koranimals.
This truly disproportionate death tally can easily be remedied by shooting all Canadian “Proportionists”, until they’re as happy as we are.
Everybody wins.
From CTV:
“Israeli has said it is carrying out the operation to end Hamas’s ability to launch rocket attacks against its territory.”
“According to Palestinian and UN figures, about 300 of the more than 670 killed inside Gaza have been civilians.”
How could they possibly know ?
good idea richfisher
“So to say they are abandoning the Jewish community (whatever that is) to chase the Muslim community (whatver that is) isnt accurate.”
I’m not sure I agree with you. It seems to me there are at least two (more likely many) interests in the Liberal party that are conflicting. Lobby/interest groups have a large amount of sway over the choices the people they “claim” to represent at the ballot box. We group people into categories and then professional groups claim to represent them ie.. feminists, muslims, gays, joos,disabled ect… All of these groups have at least one common interest: public money. As long as nobody steps on the others toes everything is fine; but, since the ideologies of most of these groups are in direct conflict with one another the house of cards eventually falls, and with it the public funding. The funding is of course the most important issue to these interest groups. This is evident when you look at the conflicting groups holding hands under the same tent. Once the facade is blown, the people the interest groups “claim” to represent start to see the contradictions in the rhetoric they prescribe to. It is at this time someone needs to be thrown under the bus(ie jooish people), after all “The good of the many outweigh the good of the few; or the one”. IMO there is no place for a Joo, woman, handi-cap or gay individual in the Liberal or NDP party so long as they lay in bed with radical Islam. The Liberals “officially” support the war against radical Islam(at least they have that right) but at a grassroots level I think the sentiment is quite different. I don’t believe the main stream Liberals can keep this rift under wraps for too much longer. I suspect that ET is correct and the Liberals are a party first and foremost interested in power, and the shortest path to power “APPEARS” to be on the back of radical Islam. I personally believe that this route is actually a dead-end, and the path that looks longer is the only true path to power. Ironic isn’t it?
BTW forgive me for the oxymoron but I couldn’t think of any other way to express my thoughts without saying “grassroots Liberals”.
The mind boggles. I really don’t know where to begin to respond to this bigoted, racist idiot who calls himself a “non-profit space engineer”, whatever that is. Suffice to say that these aren’t the words of a rational being. What a sad pitiful specimen of a human being.
Something very interesting is occurring on the Liberal Blogosphere today. The wiser ones, such as Jason Cherniak, are realizing that some of their compatriots are completely out of control with HATRED. We’ve seen BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and PDS (Palin Derangement Syndrome) amongst the Left. Now we have JDS (I’ll let you guess what that means) amongst some of the left.
At the top of Cherniak’s blog right now is his latest commentary, which I believe is even stronger than yesterday: http://liblogs.ca
In the meantime, do collect screen shots of all those Radical Leftists who think that Cherniak (and all of us) are morons for “daring” to support Israel. These screen captures will come in very useful in the future.
Interesting indeed. It seems the liberals can’t contain themselves, their hatred for Jews is so rabid. They’re mad that Iggy hasn’t come out against Israel, and they don’t want him as a leader now. The anti-Semites in the liberal party will have no where to go except the ndp, who would welcome them with open arms. There are rumors that the green party is folding, with some of their flock heading for the liberals. I know one of the candidates for the green party in London Ontario joined the liberal party in the last few days. Anyone else have any info on green party members crossing over to the liberals.
regarding proportionate.
Ulm, havent the Palestinians already established the market for proportionate, while we are looking for equivalencies.
How many Palestinians did the israeli’s release the last time they got a POW or a body back?
If we go by that ratio, which the Palestinians themselves set, then for the moment the response is well under that ratio. The Isaeli’s can kill a few more people before they look like they have gone over the exchange rate.
Remember, it is the Palestinians themselves that set these ridiculous exchange numbers…1 soldier back for 200 prisoners…..and they wonder why others dont see one life as equalling another, they dont value others lives at that ratio, why should they expect others to do so.
I am just saying……..
The lib blogs message from Jason Cherniak is gone. Looks like the liberal Jew-haters have won.
lookout, as a people we read little and understand less.
McParland at National Post, calls ’em as he sees ’em: “fruitcakes”?
…-
“Kelly McParland: Liberals need to deal with fruitcakes in the ranks”
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/01/07/kelly-mcparland-liblogs.aspx
Commenter ebt said:
“Ah, but if Warren Kinsella, who had to be chased out of the National Post with a broom, is made welcome by Ig, then any kind of trash is welcome.”
Why is criticism of Israel automatically equated with anti-semitism/”Jew hating”
ET wrote: “Multiculturalism as a policy had the agenda of dividing up immigrants into isolate enclaves”
You’re talking about Gerrymandering, but along different lines of definition (“cultural” vs. geographic). N’est-ce pas?
Sadly, it’s the nature of the blogging community that the scum tends to float to the top.