Only three years ago, the Liberals were flush with cash, with over $17 million flowing from the government allowance and contributions from supporters.
Fast forward to 2008. Of the 305-member list of top donors from 2005, a mere dozen have contributed the maximum to the Liberals this year, even though the limit is far lower.
No party that refuses to support their own, with their own money, has the right to demand so much as a nickel from any Canadian.
So much for the “existential threat”. If you want them to exist, then get out your cheque book and shut the hell up.
Does anyone know how much the “Leaders” from the Liberal Party and NDP have donated to their own parties? If even the leaders of the party do not support it why should tax-payers support the party?
No party that refuses to support their own, with their own money, has the right to demand so much as a nickel from any Canadian.
Fine. Then let Harpo and his minions pledge to forgo
ALL taxpayer support, including all rebates and all tax credits.
According to Jack, if political parties without financial supporter can’t feed at the public trough, it is an attack on democracy.
Uh, I think that’s what he’s saying there Manny. Ironically, the CPC would lose the most under Harper’s plan. The way things are now the Libs would have to rename themselves the Taxpayer Party of Canada since that’s who supports them.
Manny – your skull has got to be bullet proof. That kind of density is amazing.
Manny,
Unlike the socialists, most Conservatives would see the elimination of government support for parties as a reason to focus harder on fundraising.
Now, I can understand why the Liberals and NDP dislike fundraising so much … Every time the Liberals ask for money they get asked “Didn’t you steal enough of my money already?” while every time the NDP ask for money their supporters say “The government should do something about that!”
Do you notice how the Libs and the Dippers are constancy saying “Canadians are saying this or Canadians are saying that yada yada yada”. Bullsh-t! A solid 2/3 are saying NO DAMNED WAY to this power heist.
They won’t have to worry about funding. If they are able to seize power in this Junta. Canada is finished as a National Dominion. They will be hounded by their own people when it comes. There will be no going back.
If nothing else its shows the insular mindset of Toronto & Quebec. They honestly have no idea how real Canadians view this outside Toronto. They are so far removed from any truth outside of there inner circles, it has made them imbeciles. We are not French out West to play the separatist game for gain. We will just up & leave first chance we get from the Eastern pustules of greed.
I think the libs still owe the taxpayers something north of $10 million.
Uh, I think that’s what he’s saying there Manny.
Uh, no, “thinker”, he’s only talking about the per vote funding, not the tax credits nor the campaign rebates.
BC, Alta and Sask hook up with Alaska and then join the US. They’ll leave Manitoba to be the Newfoundland of the West — the way the Bombers play, they belong in the East anyway.
Uhh, manny to be fair, shouldn’t you say all political parties should forgo all taxpayer support, including all rebates and all tax credits?
After thinking about this, I’ve come to the conclusion that the NDP missed the opportunity of a political lifetime for the short term chance of a few cabinet posts. What I mean is, the Liberals and Bloc have a lot more to loose when the $1.95 cut happens. The Liberal party machine is broken and the NDP would naturally fill the vacuum. In Quebec, the socialist leaning voters could vote NDP if the Bloc fails to campaign effectively and without money, that is a lot harder. If on Thursday, instead of screaming their heads off likes Pat Martins’ “This means war.”, they took the reasonable approach with their usually talking points about not enough help for the poor, etc they would be in the position to support the $1.95 cut. This would help their long term interest as a viable leading opposition party. Alas, it shall not be.
Bring on the $1.95 election.
I will not comment on Manny’s comments only because the level of reasoning contained in them is beneath that of my Yorkshire Terrior. I hope that others will refrain from feeding that troll.
No, qwerty, let the right wingnuts practice what they preach or shut the hell up.
Manny, shouldn’t everybody play by the same rules. So, no taxpayer support, whatsoever, for any political party. Is that what you’re advocating?
For the rest who actually think before they post, here’s an idea I’d like to float. Tories keep the subsidy in place, but refuse to take it themselves.
Manny and his ilk are laughable. Anybody who thinks Libs and NDP are trying to seize power because they disagree with economic statement are truly delusional. Harper withdrew that aspect from the economic statement and lo and behold, the idea of a non-confidence motion, rather than voting against the statement came out, before Flanagan’s statement was even on Hansard.
Read the G&M article today about how Chretien and Broadbent hatched the coalition idea out of reaction to the trial baloon of removing subsidy was put out.
Manny, where is the opposition’s plan, other than to defeat the government and try to seize power. For the lucid, sorry this isn’t business as usual in parliament. Yes, the rules allow for this type of thing, but it is still a quite rare event, and the events today simply don’t align with a minority coalition seizing power with help of separatists, where the defeated government would have more seats than the coalition.
It’s a total pipe dream anyway that’s going nowhere. I guarantee GG wants no part of this. Spare us the 62% of Canadians voted against Harper – it doesn’t follow logically that they would be in favour of this coalition. BTW, that would mean 74% voted against Dion in government, 81% against NDP in government, and 90% against Bloc in government.
If the NDP and Liberals had run together under a single platform (which they both explicitly rejected BTW), IMO that would have resulted in CPC majority.
This back door BS simply won’t fly on any level. Just because on a technical or legalistic (ie-theoretical) level, this could happen, it does not pass a reality test.
Libs should be careful what they wish for. If by some miracle they got GG to go along with this hairbrained scheme of minority coalition (no precedent for this one folks) with Bloc support, Harper would immediately launch court challenge and we would end up in election.
If opposition is so sure this is what Canadians want, then they should defeat the government and face voters in election. They don’t want to do that, because they know what happen.
I believe they also know the GG will not be party to this either, so they are just playing asinine games when, yes Ted, Canadians (sorry buddy that isn’t just Liberals) want leadership.
But Ted and Manny, thanks for the laugh though.
If the socialist trio manages to concoct their plan and become administrators of the state, it will be a de facto communist regime.
Taliban Jack Layton in any cabinet post is unthinkable based only on his genuflecting to the taliban and admirer of Castro.
Bob Rae the “crypto-communist” and French citoyen Dion as the prime Minister would signal the death knell of Canada if former communist card carrying Duceppe’s voice was required in lawmaking.
Western Canadians would rebel and I for one would be willing to encourage them from here in Ontario.
I don’t want to live under any communist regime, and I know in my heart those individuals would not be long in taking the road of Chavez and Castro.
The most frustrating part is the blindness of Canadian MSM to the consequences of this axis of obscenity the three joned party’s represent to Canada.
Just a reminder that there still exists the tax rebate for political donations that is quite significant:
$1100 (max) donation gets you a $508.33 rebate
$500 donation gets you a $350 rebate
$100 donation gets you a $75 rebate
The liberals can’t get people to donate money… The conservatives can.
So I suppose the next move when the Liberals take power would be to make this rebate disappear.
I’m sending $500 to the Conservative Party.
Go Harper Go. Merry Christmas to us all!
If I understand Manny correctly, three different forms of taxpayer support is vital to maintain democratic viability in Canada.
Apparantly our political parties are so fragile that this financial arrangement is vital. Of course this couldn’t be the same Manny who rails against government support for the agriculture industry.
That Manny considers ag support to be akin to theft.
Syncro
Oh my, the right wing, open mouth, rush limbaugh wannabe blowhards are positively apoplectic, if this Green yahoo on 980 is any indication. I do believe he may blow a gasket. Pantload Harpo cannot be gone soon enough.
A dozen people, huh…
Taber, Fife, Oliver, Newman, Robertson, WK,……
Manny,
Can you list 10 things the Harper government has done which is so awful (or so much different from what the Liberals did) that made you dislike them so much?
NoOne – why would you or anyone give a flying you-know-what!
A possible solution that I posted on a G&M thread [of course, this wouldn’t happen in a week, but still poses an interesting scenario]:
” If Sarah Palin was to bring Alaska into Canadian Confederation, that could give the Conservatives a majority, and perhaps we could enjoy her as Vice-Presdent, er: Vice Premier, or whatever. Think of the endless advantages. Wow! ”
Note: Sorry Kate, you were my first choice, but can you bring Alaska into Confederation?
Fine. Then let Harpo and his minions pledge to forgo
ALL taxpayer support, including all rebates and all tax credits.
And how much did you contribute,manny???And that is exactly what PMSH wants to do.Where did you learn your logic? At the Socialist school for commies?
Oh. And BTW…..manny…haul your nose out of K’s a%%s…Okay?
Sorry, I can’t resist feeding the troll.
Manny wants Stephanie to pay for his Penial Inversion so he can sleep with the new P.M.
Does any one know how long it takes polling firms to commission a poll and release the results? All of the online polls I’ve seen support the $1.95 cut from 60 to 85 percent. I figure once the Liberal and NDP see these kinds of numbers from independent polling firms and their associated drop in popular support they may reconsider. Or is the quest for power blinding them?
Some other economists – those who didn’t attend the prestigious University of Calgary’s Stephen Harper School of Economical Type Things And the Liberals Totally Suck – have weighed in.
It’s not pretty. From the Globe:
“That’s precisely the thing not to do,” said Carlos Leitao, chief economist at Laurentian Bank Securities. Rather than a balanced budget, he believes, what we need right now is new spending of $15 billion or more to do things like bail out provincial budgets and boost benefits to the unemployed. This would translate into a deficit of about the same size, but it would prevent economic damage worth far more.
“I think a lot of us were a bit flabbergasted by the government’s priorities,” said Douglas Porter, deputy chief economist at BMO Capital Markets. “Who exactly are they trying to impress” with the deficit-fighting rhetoric? he asked, since Canadians know very well that temporary deficits are far preferable to a deepening recession.
“This policy will not do anything to moderate the recession and it may worsen it,” said McGill University economist Jagdish Handa. The principle that government should sustain economic activity and employment by running deficits during a slump, far from being controversial, is “at the core of current economic thinking,” he noted.
Manny have you asked yourself why you post on a right of centre blog? The need to aggravate those that pay no attention to you in life reminds you that your mom had to tie a pork chop around your neck for the dog to come.
Also from the Globe:
“The Harper government will abandon a plan to end subsidies for political parties, backpedalling from a move that outraged the opposition and pushed the country towards a political crisis.”
So now it gets even more interesting. The Liberal – NDP coalitions with their shadow partner the Bloc want to come out with a big “stimulus” while the Conservatives take a vigilant wait and see approach. With the party funding off the table what comes next?
Again – this is a disgrace; it is an outright rejection of democracy. How dare you – Mr. Dion, Layton, Ignatieff, Rae, Duceppe – how dare you treat the parliament and the electorate with such contempt. How dare you so abuse our system to gain power. ET
To all of those Tory supporters fuming with outrage at the possible “overthrow” of Harper’s minority government in an “undemocratic coup” and who are especially aggrieved at the thought of the Bloc’s participation in a progressive coalition government, please read the following letter from your Dear Leader to then Governor General Adrienne Clarkson dated September 9, 2004:
As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated.
That letter was signed by all three opposition leaders: Gilles Duceppe, Jack Layton and Stephen Harper.
h/t red tory
You’re a guest here manny. But that can be remedied if you venture again into insulting your hostess.
The rest of you can stop feeding her, and all of you can drop the insults.
Manny …
… spoken like a true Liberal with one’s nose in the public trough of entitlement!
Simple … If Liberals are such generous folk , then put your collective money where your collective mouth is and donate to the Liberal party.
… otherwise shut up and go away !
Kaplan: ““I think a lot of us were a bit flabbergasted by the government’s priorities,” said Douglas Porter, deputy chief economist at BMO Capital Markets. “Who exactly are they trying to impress” with the deficit-fighting rhetoric? he asked, since Canadians know very well that temporary deficits are far preferable to a deepening recession.”
Porter may be right about the usefulness of temporary deficits, but to say that Canadians “know very well” that they are preferable to a recession is ridiculous. All that most Canadians have heard for 15 years is that deficits have to be avoided at all costs, since they nearly bankrupted the country. The Conservatives are talking about avoiding a deficit because they know they’ll be skewered by the opposition if/when one occurs. But the opposition will also crucify the govt. for not concocting a massive “stimulative” package that will rack up a huge deficit. If Porter can’t see the politics behind this, then he isn’t very smart — and no judge of what “most Canadians” are thinking.
I can scarcely imagine the thoughts running through the Librano braintrust right now …………. economic stimulus = Adscam x billions , plus carbon tax . Let the good times roll . Liberal times are good times baby .
Manny does have a point on the whole “coalition” thing. CPC supporters can’t complain about what the opposition is doing right now when Harper tried the exact same thing just a few short years ago…
He’s out to lunch on the rest though…
“I think a lot of us were a bit flabbergasted by the government’s priorities,” said Douglas Porter, deputy chief economist at BMO Capital Markets.”
“will not do anything to moderate the recession and it may worsen it,” said McGill University economist Jagdish Handa.
Big deal! How many economists have we heard lately speaking on the subject of recession? 12 different economists will give 12 different opinions. The reality is that there is simply no silver bullet.
Pardon me if I’ve got this wrong but this coalition of Libs and Dips that is being cobbled together by Chretien/Broadbent/Dion/Layton/Rae/Ignatief to assume power will have, according to the last election, a total of 114 seats in the HoC while the CPC will have 143 seats therefore the coalition will require 30 plus seats more to pass any legislation that they table. Even to the trolls here it must be fairly evident that those seats or votes can only come from the Bloc. So I’d like an explanation of how or why the Libs/Dips would allow the RoC to be governed (?, – coerced, extorted, forced, intimidated, you pick) by 30 representatives who’s only raison d’etre is to seperate and ultimately break up Canada! When given the chance to cooperate with the incumbent government last September Dion, Layton, and Duceppe all refused now they are going to jump into bed with each other for their grab at power. The only thing that will happen with this manage-a-trois is that Canadians are going to get skewered and I for one am tired of these Trudeaupea/Socialists trying to force me into their daisy chain. If it takes another election to get rid of this socialist mind set then bring it on, I’m going down to my MP’s office this week to pony up and hold the line. (OT maybe the new party should be named the Manage-a-Trois party….naw couldn’t happen there’s not a man among them!!!!)
Given that Canada is recognized to be in the best financial shape of all the G20 countries, why should we be like lemmings and follow those other countries [the story of the 3 little pigs comes to mind here, with Canada having built its house of bricks]The UK just reduced their GST thereby following what Canada did 18 months ago. The Americans have not released their stimulus package and as mentioned elsewhere we would be crazy to release funds until we see what the Yanks do after all it is the US auto industry.
The Liberals see this as an opportunity to replenish their war chest.The Dipper get a chance to play Government which they will never do through the popular vote.The Bloc are rubbing their hands at the prospect of blackmailing the other two parties.
Richard Evans, do you recall what was happeneding in 2004, after Sheila Fraser revealed details of Adscam?
The public was in a total uproar, and The Opposition had every right to write a letter of non-confidence in the government, on the public’s behalf.
This time The Opposition are not fighting for the public, but out of concern for losing *their* entitlements from the taxpayer.
manny:
Progressive coalition government
Progressive in what way? Communism!!!
I don’t know if you have noticed but the word progressive has come to mean thought police, tax theft, power mongering, contempt for electors, freedom for child killers, lovers of criminals, idiots in the bush moaning over Mother Earth.
Give it up Manny your just a 2 buck Nazi with the usual feral arrogant mindset of the Elite. With utter contempt for any other view point. I hope this does succeed. Its the end of having to listen to faux Canadians like you when we leave.
Its stinkers like your bunch of socialists, that are going to bring on a new holocaust. Just like your fellow travelers have always done . From Russia, Germany, china ,Rwanda, Cuba, to Cambodia. It now looks like SA may be visited with the progressive Tolerance & compassion we have all been accustomed to from progressives. The bulldozer for the bodies.
Happy Trails or would that be tarred & feathered rails? After the killing fields have ended.
I agree with Kate one hundred percent that the Chretien formula for political party subsidy should be repealed, along with removing the tax credit given for individual political donations, which is a subsidy as well.
If members of any organization are unwilling to support said organization without the benefit of a tax break it should cease to exist.
Bingo, BB. The scope and scale of the call for a coalition is not even close to being equal.
I live in Saskatchewan where we have one (thank God not more than one) Liberal MP – none other than Ralph Goodale. “Ralph” is what I want to do when I think of this eastern Liberal-a$$kisser). If the government is defeated on this, in the next election, I will travel to Regina and spend time campaigning in Goodale’s riding of Wascana in an effort to defeat him. I hope that many, many others are as fed as I am with Ralphie and get out there and do the same. We must get out a big effort to get rid of this man.
I have not seen anyone in the MSM look at this from the voters perspective. All of the anointed ones seem to forget about the spirit of democracy and the will of the voters. The proposed coalition is not legitimate because they have not presented a platform that has been approved by Canadians.
Is it Dion’s the Liberal Greenshift (that was rejected in the election)? The NDPs anti business agenda? The Blocs separatists agenda?
If the opposition is hot to form an alliance that is fine. But they should first have a platform to present to voters and then call an election. All voters should get to see the coalitions intentions before being forced the accept this arranged marriage by Chretien and Broadbent. The opposition and GG should not presume that Canadians have given them a mandate to govern based solely the fact that they are all left of the conservatives. The GG should force them to present themselves to voters as a united coalition.
I used to have a lot of respect for Ed Broadbent, but this is ridiculous. As for Chretien I will never forgive him for his encouraging the federal Business Development Bank to fire and harass President François Beaudoin because he balked at further loans for a friend of Chretien’s. I see this thug Chretienis still getting honorary degrees from universities.
And Harper should consult with party members before pulling a stunt like this.
Roy Green had SUPERB 3 hours of coverage on this constitutional crisis today. In case you missed it, I’ve provided links here.
The best part was Libby Davies in the 2nd half of the first hour. Roy well represented the outrage many of us are feeling!!!
Yes, Robert W, I listened to it while monitoring the issue on this blog. Roy said that he has never – no make that NEVER seen so many e-mails to him on one issue. People are really pissed about this and I am one of them. They cannot be allowed to get away with this. I will be sure to listen in to Roy’s radio show tomorrow also.
“Manny does have a point on the whole “coalition” thing.”
No he doesn’t. That letter said that if the governing party asked the GG to dissolve Parliament, she consider all of her options, including the possibility of a coalition of the opposition parties. It didn’t say a thing about the opposition parties asking her to remove the governing party to install them instead.
Manny, what does it feel like to be the resident pet troll here? I trust you realize that you are advocating the non-election of a coalition that includes a group of people who want to dissolve Canada? Supporting this coalition means supporting Gilles Duceppe because we all know that we will be pulling the strings of Dion & Layton at every turn. This makes you non-Canadian, sir.
What’s most hilarious at this juncture is that now that the Conservatives have withdrawn the idea of removing the taxpayer supported political contributions, precisely on what actual points are the 3 parties in the Cabal standing on? I can only think of two: Power & Ego.