…the same 4 out of 5 Canadians who will today cheer on a protectionist Democratic to win the White House, will tomorrow blame Harper for not forcing “those Americans” to govern like a free-trading Republicans.
(Hey Lorrie, stop whining. So what if we have all the oil – you get all the immigration!)
It would not have been any different with the other guy. Last election, Ontario had a choice between true Liberal, and a copy of true Liberal. Neither one would have heeded Flaherty’s warning.
We’ll soon know it the USA will elect the equivalent of the NDP.
Socialism ruined Europe, it could easily do the same to the US.
Goldstein once in a while makes a valid point, but misses the Quebec boat big time on this one. The whore of Canada called Quebec continues to suck up wealth from the rest of us while building their massive public debt with social programs and funding of the arts. If we wake up tomorrow and their are no flitting fairies on stages or voice of fire paintings on gallery walls we will survive. But if we have no food we are in trouble, the farmers of this country are not getting enough return to continue but we still send money to the trollop Quebec for WHAT?
This is not the first time that Ontario has qualified for receipt of Equalization monies. It will however be the first time that we ever cashed the cheque.
When we slipped below the “Have Not” line once before, then Premier Bill Davis quietly told the feds, “No Thanks” we will take care of ourselves.
Could you even imagine a whiner like McGuinty ever standing tall like that?
for zee cheeze, bart-in-sky!
bartinsky above beat me to it. Until federal politicians aren’t forced to pander to the Quebec vote there will be a problem. If Ontario really takes a hard look at the problem, they will all be looking at the money pit to the east that is Quebec.
From the article:
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
It was the unions that destroyed the manufacturing sector. They made themselves unproductive and uncompetitive. There was absolutely no way Ford, GM, or Chrysler could move fast enough to respond to economic pressures with the unions’ boots on their throats. If the Big Three were not being held down and being bum raped by the unions, I doubt we would have seen the decline of the past few months. Smaller manufacturers would still have gone down, but the auto sector could have weathered this.
Honestly, I’m not entirely convinced that the slowdown is as bad as they say. When it takes two hours to drive from Keswick to Toronto in the morning rush because both the regional roads and highways are packed with commuters, that suggests to me that a hell of a lot of people are working. Or maybe all those unemployed people are just driving around now — you know, for the hell of it.
One last thing: stop gloating about the oil, Kate. It’s really unbecoming. You’re better than that.
What do you call a province that has industries such as hydro, mining, steel, alumunum smelting, forestry, dairy, farming, shipping and ship building, tourism and others I can’t think of?
A successful have province, right?
Wrong…you call it Quebec.
8 billion sucked out of the rest of Canada, 59% of the total paid out by the feds.
Incredible!!…disgusting!!!
So now that it’s a Liberal Government in financial dificulty, the financial crisis is suddenly “global” and “beyond anyone’s control”.
$20 billion to Ottawa? C’mon Ontario, share that wealth. It’s the “Canadian” thing to do.
Dudes,I love to bash le Seperatistes as much as the next guy, but there’s a much bigger money pit much closer to home than La Belle Province.
Toronto.
All that lovely Fed transfer money sure ain’t going to fix the roads up in Kapuskasing, know what I mean? So long as one region can command all the power in the province, there will be a black hole sucking down all the money.
That’s why I like federal and provincial level tax cuts. Toronto can be as needy as it wants, so long as the people who actually live there are the ones paying the shot. You wanna pony up half your income or more for the glory of Mayor Dave? Go to it, my friends! If not, just move to Barrie. Or [shudder] Hamilton!
Welp, Obama ain’t getting in on my vote. Just went and pulled the Lever for the Old Geezer and Caribou Barbie. The only problem now is, it’s too early for a drink.
Lickmuffin, be serious. Did exclusively marketing Suburbans, F-250’s, Camaro’s, Imperial’s, Jimmy’s have nothing to do with it? What about the fact that Chrysler does not even have a B-car? You are saying it was the union that forced Ford Chrysler, and GM to build all those cars that not many people wanted? It was the union that forced the big three to ignore their product and customers for 30 years?
Pull your head out.
Ratt,
It’s never too early for a drink 🙂
I agree with lickmuffin’s assessment of the unions as a major cause of Ontario’s economic failure.
Ontario built itself up as an auto manufacturing economy. It relied on ONE consumer, the US market, rather than making its costs and expenses competititve in the world market.
Assured of a regular purchaser, the US, Ontario then allowed the Unions to take over the industries.
Trade unions do not represent the average worker; they represent the most highest paid labour, the elites. And they’ve expanded their membership, moving from the auto industry into other areas and into the huge public service (health, education, civil service).
This bloated the costs. Remember, trade unions are corporations. They are parasitic; they feed off the workers, and their agenda is to make those workers ‘fat’, so the union income increases.
With a ‘Ponzo’ style of economy, based around an almost 90% reliance on one purchaser, a refusal to be competitive – well, when that purchaser decides not to purchase…and when other costs increase…the deck of cards rapidly collapses.
That’s Ontario. It’s its own fault, the fault of the govt embedded hand in glove with the unions.
4 out of 5 Canadians are too blinded by the socialist light of Obamessiah to realize the effect his election will have on our markets. For one, he’s promised to scrap the “unfair” NAFTA agreement. Scrapping NAFTA == Ontario pain.
Yup.
That’s what ya get with Liberal McWeenie Dalton running the province….now it is a have-not…and is it any wonder? With all the environmental regulations slapped on industry they scrammed the hell outa here and took the jobs and yes the municipal tax base with them.
It was a few years back when the Landowners Association staged a peaceful demonstration at Queens Park in Toronto with honest hard working people from across the province in attendance.
They had the riot police to greet us including the mounted unit. Where was Dalton that day? Off giving GM a BILLION dollars to make 2 seater Camaro muscle cars. He ranks right up there with Rae for being the worst premier ever.
And to our Americian friends voting McCain/Palin…..you are wise. Stay safe today.
Quebec is to get 8.3 Billion dollars for their equalization payment from the Federal government and Canadian taxpayers in the coming year ( they received 7.1 billion in 07-08) , and in return Quebec gave us 50 Bloc members.
Why is that largesse kept a virtual secret from Canadians ( someone said it is because Quebec has never said thank you)?
Am I right in thinking and should Canadians feel confident, that the province of Quebec by example, will be the leader to lead us out of the present financial crisis, by accepting smaller increases for their cultural and arts grants in the coming year?
“Caribou Barbie”
I love that one. I love her too.
Gary in Kansas
Immigration, maxes out in Toronto where unemployment is high. 7.2% last I checked.
In the UK immigration costs 8.8 billion pounds a year. That they know of.
There are little things they ignore like, if the school board has to hire 40 people to give one on one teaching and it almost all goes to immigrants like in Winnipeg WSD1 that would be on top of the 8.8 billion.
Then anti domestic types want to raise the OAS limit so that if you show up here for 5 years and retire you get a higher tax funded income. Than if you relied on a program you paid into like CPP.
They are more likely to be unemployed or on welfare than people born here.
The Canadian taxpayers federation is not at all interested in studying it.
But there is a trend that
population decreases lead to a richer peasantry while population increases lead to richer elites. That without having to teach people who are 50 years old ESL.
I like how the government says its real concerned about positive outcomes for immigrants. People who were born here??? Who cares!!!! It’s not like they are important. Some people like that thinking.
Canadian Obamaniacs, particularly those in manufacturing, forestry, and agriculture, will experience the ascendancy of the Democrats not unlike how married men experience extramarital sex:
Momentary ecstasy followed by long term financial consequences.
Kevin, on the subject of cars. You’re right that the unions didn’t make the Big 3 ignore their customers.
I’m a gear head, I see in the market there are companies who have duplicated the muscle cars of the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. Panel for panel, 100% accurate. Huge, ungodly amount of work but they are selling these complete copies quite well. Not a complete car, not even a roller, just a bare metal body in a box. Selling well.
GM, Ford and Chrysler could have done that YEARS ago. They -are- doing it now. The new Mustang, Charger, Challenger and Camaro are proof the dinosaurs are still alive, just friggin’ glacially slow. Of those new cars, only the Mustang is really worth a damn because only the Mustang is close to the original it is copying. IMHO, of course. The other ones, all I can say is four door Charger! WTF?!!!
So no, it is not the union’s fault it took Ford this long to grow a brain cell and the rest still haven’t. It IS the union’s fault the damn car is far too expensive to actually -buy-. Target market for muscle cars is guys under 25. Kids. They want the muscle, they want the chick magnet. They don’t want it for over $30 grand though. So the kids are driving rice and doing front-wheel-drive burnouts for their girlfriends (which is just so LAME), and the Big Three are selling screw-all.
Unions suck. The Big Three also suck independently.
May they all find bankruptcy together, and may a whole bunch of new companies spring up that make fun exciting cars people can actually afford to drive. That is the prayer of this gearhead. Amen.
“… stop gloating about the oil, Kate. It’s really unbecoming. You’re better than that.”
No I’m not.
A feat unrivaled by such heavyweights as Bob Rae!
Kevin — You’re absolutely correct about the bad marketing on the part of the Big Three. But I would argue that the unions play a huge role in preventing the Big Three from competing with Japanese small cars: to compete with Honda and Toyota in the compact car market, GM et al would have to dramatically improve their quality and productivity. The unions will not let that happen — both would require changes to how labour works, and the unions would simply make it too expensive to implement those changes.
About pulling out: you first.
And Kate: yes, you are.
Quebec is like a spoiled child.They no longer need transfer payments and the lieberals started them to get their vote but it didnt work.The Bloc was the result and the payments should end and let the chips fall where they may.Maybe Canada is ready for a war to stop secession.It worked in the USA.
Couple of comments.
One piece of legislation waiting in the US is an end to the Ballet vote for unions and back to a show of hands, goon squads here we come.
The economic slow down will hopefully last for a year or so, no more oil funds to support terrorism around the world and probably the collapse of a few regimes around the world, Iran, Russian imperialism, Venezuela Etc. so not all bad this down turn. Socialism is a parasite and can only survive when the host is strong.
Well, well well now…. looks like Dalton McD****bag is well on his way to out-doing the failed ex-NDP Premier Bob Rae at completely demolishing Ontario’s economy for decades to come. They are both cynical socialist weasels of the first order and they are both astoundingly but predictably inept. So don’t complain all you nervous ‘little girls’ in Toronto that voted for both Rae and McD****bag…you get what you ask for!
Don’t forget about Toronto’s mayor, David “Red Ken Livingdton” Miller. He too has helped the socialist decline that of the once great province of Ontario.
The only true cure for socialism, is to give people as much as they ask for.
So begins the TRUE deconstruction of the country formerly known as Canada.
I was originally from Ontario and this slow death has been going on for 2 decades now. The Unions destroyed the forestry and mining sectors by increasing the costs of labour to the point where importing the raw resources from South America, Africa, ect. to the highly populated urban steel and wood product factories (also Unionized!) was more cost effective. Now that labour has also been outsourced to other countries, those manufacturing sectors are gasping thier last breath. Let’s not forget about a growing and powerful public sector lobby (Ontario teachers & civil service unions) that have been drawing far more resources than they contribute. Successive Ontario governments have not been able to, or willing to, admit there is a problem so they have maintained the status quo in hopes of staying in power to ensure there own survival. Budgets have continued to fund redundant and unnessessary social programs, inefficiencies have not been addressed, business tax reforms have not been administered to bolster new business starts, and in the face of an global economic slowdown the Ontario government opts to go into deficit.
Does this sound familiar? Maybe similar to the path taken by a certain neighbour province starting with the letter “Q”? Quebec has been running deficit budgets, funding subsidized social programs, for how long now? 20, 30 years?
How long will “Canadians” in the rest of Canada allow the Federal government to pick up the tab for the 2 most populated provinces for the sole purpose of remaining in power? Does anyone truly believe that any future leader will have the ability to deny them if the demands continue?
The path has been chosen. It is near time to start picking sides.
Posted by: Kate at November 4, 2008 10:28 AM
[“… stop gloating about the oil, Kate. It’s really unbecoming. You’re better than that.”]
“No I’m not.”
Succinct. (Characterized by clear, precise expression in few words; concise and terse)
If ya’ got it, flaunt it. Makes sense to me.
Lickmuffin,you’re partly right. Union-negotiated endowments basically added about $1500 per car in labour related costs not born by other manufacturers, particularly Japan and Korea. These costs account for the slow decline of the Big Three but do not explain the NA manufacturers tanking in 2007-8.
The real problem is shifting consumer demand. The production mix for about the last 25 years has been 60% trucks, 40% cars from the Big Three, while the mix has been the reverse for the Japanese and Koreans. With the spiking of gasoline prices, the bottom went out of the SUV and truck market. Ontario got rich on producing trucks, and now the Big Three will have to retool their production to meet changing consumption patterns. They have redundant production capacity in trucks and SUVs. They are hindered by their structural costs such as the unions, but the blindness in not seeing this coming was all their own doing.
How much of that extra $20 billion “sent to Ottawa” is from the very large Canada-wide Corporations that just happen to have their corporate head office in Ontario. Every Blackberry sold in Canada. Every service charge for an ATM from RBC, BMO etc. Of course GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota…etc. The point is, I guess that all of that tax revenue “sent” to Ottawa is created in the whole country by us pleebs buying stuff from Ontario based companies.
Suck it up Ontario. You squandered a century of preferred status in Canada and sold it for socialism.
“What do you call a province that has industries such as hydro, mining, steel, alumunum smelting, forestry, dairy, farming, shipping and ship building, tourism and others I can’t think of?”
clair voyant
Uhhhhh…ya. Ontario! Not only Quebec.
http://www.gunbanobama.com/default.aspx?NavGuid=00bdd116-898f-4f21-8e99-a68a40642560&t=Hunters
It is absurd that a resource rich province like Quebec could get $8 billion in equalization!! Wouldn’t we all be far better off if it were to separate??
Hey Ratt, I have heard of some guys that when you show at their place in the AM, says, ‘well it must be 5 o clock somewhere in the world’!
Rather creative, I’d say.
Of course I have never met any of these people. Wink, wink.
A prez Obama will rape Canada and kill Ontario auto manufacturing. Ontario will not only be a “have-not” province, it will become a rust belt slum after the Obama Democrats unleash their protectionism agenda and suck back all the auto jobs to Deetroit … and you had better believe it.
All those defeated Liberals cheering for Obama will be lynched politically after their beloved Obama screws Canada. Put Kinsella at the top of the list.
MJH
We don’t have to separate – we just have to threaten to.
Start sending two thirds of you MP’s who threaten separatism to Ottawa also helps obviously.
Duceppe who has stated on several occasions that he doesn’t care what happens in the rest of Canada he is only interested in what is good for Quebec – that seems to work for Duceppe, the Bloc and for Quebec.
It nice to see that since Ontario receives 57% (then they spread out) of Canadian immigrants that there is no increased violent crime or racial issues in places such as Toronto.
Hell it’s more like hanging out in 1957 Seattle than a modern multi cultural city.
Fred, Gary and Rockyt I do believe you are right, It’s 5 O’Clock somewhere.
Just hope I am still awake when the verdict comes down. Well, reckon I could kill some time, go fishing behind the house, throw my truck keys in the pond, drown some worms, or for that matter don’t even put any worms on the hook, or hell, for that matter don’t even put a hook on the line just throw a bobber-cork out there and light my cuban cigar and sip on some Canadian Whiskey.
Ontario’s Union automakers (notice that the new Toyota and Honda plants are making vehicles people are still buying) reminds me of the AK47.
The idea of that design was so that inefficient, careless, soviet workers using bad equipment could manufacture a cheap gun which had built-in tolerances for shoddy work.
GM, Ford, and Chrysler are like the AK47 without the reliability. They have the same shoddy craftsmanship, same bad soviet workforce and bad machining as the AK47. What they didn’t do is design their products in such a way as to ensure they wouldn’t fall apart with the bad inputs. Just looking at a formerly “big” three car is painful. All the cheap-looking plastic bits with exposed screws and/or shoddy snaps which won’t last the first year… no thanks.
And most manufacturers have gone for efficient delivery of power over unrefined bruit force. Heavy over-powered cars which burn whole oilfields on the way to work are not what people are after.
As for the west’s oil, the price of oil has crashed before and will again. Then we’ll see who’s whining. NFLD and SK aren’t AB. AB has no debt, low taxes and the Heritage Fund. NFLD and SK… don’t.
Peter
“We don’t have to separate – we just have to threaten to.”
A few years of Ontario seeing it’s cash continue on to QC when it’s down and out may finally push the sheep in this province to stop bending over backwards to appease moral degenerate deadbeat scumbags. Most other provinces would already be happy to be rid of you.
At that point, you won’t be threatening to separate as you won’t have a say in the matter. You’ll just be handed the pink slip.
These numbers are staggering.
For Alberta the cost of being Canadian is…
– *Between 1961 and 1992 Alberta paid 139 billion more to Ottawa that it received.
– *In the same period Quebec has received 168 billion from Ottawa.
Over this period Alberta has literally been paying Quebec for the privilege of being Canadian.
*Source:Dr. Robert Mansell and Ronald Schlenker, “The Provincial Distribution of Federal Fiscal Balances,” Canadian Business Economics 3:2 (Winter, 1995), 3-21
1997 – 2003 Cost of being Canadian for Albertans:
**$54,000,000,000 (total)
1997: 5.7b
1998: 6.3b
1999: 6.1b
2000: 7.1b
2001: 8.5b
2002: 9.9b
2003: 11.1b
** Source: Alberta Finance, March 2004
2008 year to date cost of being Canadian for Albertans:
2008: 9.4b (ytd)
Jan in Alberta @ 11:36 A.M.
Even though Ontario is headed in that direction, they are still a long way away from sucking 8 billion from the ROC a la Quebec.
I doubt many Albertans’ would give a rat’s ass if Quebec separated or not. Many probably have never even met a real live “Separatist Quebecois”. Save for the few that come out looking for “all that oilfield money” and 90% end up heading back home when they realize you actually have to work “Hard” for it!
In the meantime hard working Albertan’s are more likely to be upset at the whining entitlement club of Quebec who seem to think that their “special” national identity should guarantee them a cut of everyone else’s labors. Socialism runs amuck.
To all Quebec separatist out there from one Albertan, if you agreed to separate without the billions in alimony you’ve demanded in the past, and laid claim to legitimate lands within the borders of Quebec- ie: Not traditional aboriginal lands which make up 90% of the Quebec land mass…….I’ll be the first to sign up for separation. I’m sick and tired of picking up consumer goods in my own home and reading a language I have no idea about then having to find the English label. The worst part is I’ve paid extra for the privilege.
I personally have zero problems with French speaking Canadians and fully believe that they have a right to their own culture, heritage and place in the country. But the whiners need to shut up because we are sick and tired of hearing how under privileged you are with your special status as a minority in this country as we foot your bill. The intelligent French Canadians just move on and silently reap the rewards not looking a gift horse in the mouth. I’m ok with that, which allows me to say I do slide a little to the left, kind of like feeding starving Afghanis but right here at home.
hell i live in ontario and i don’t give a rats ass if the polliwogs separate.
i bet McVarmint owns stock in asian auto companys.
Good, Quebec’s outrageous Equalization payments have come onto the Canadian radar screen.
The fact is that many older Quebecers have always considered the entire physical country of Canada, from sea to sea to sea, THEIR country.
Even Pierre Trudeau wrote longingly of ‘this land which was once ours’.
But the damn anglais took it away from them.
Ergo, any payments, benefits or entitlements Quebec receives from the ROC are entirely justified in their minds as ‘rent’ money from the rest of Canada.
And the more, the better.
French Quebec really does look at Canada differently than the ROC does.
That is part of the reason why they do.
In fact, that is why the $300 million of Adscam money could only get spent in Quebec inspite of all of the BS lame excuses by the MSM that Adscam could have happened in any province. No it couldn’t.
But this will not change until the ROC finds the male parts to tell Quebec that the paying ‘rent’ days are tout finis.
On the other hand, maybe we should just nationalize all the hydro in the country as part of our ‘Green Plan’.
is it any surprise that Ontario’s tax and spend policies have driven out the manufacturing sector
and turned Ontario into a have-not province?
nice work McGuinty
You get what you vote for. Ontario is in love with Marxism. Wait till you end up like Manitoba or Atlantic Canada as the population runs from “Utopia”. Ask Quebec. Better yet what if 3 Western Provinces just left?