Where the foxes caper unmolested, the government packs your school lunch, and there’s never a snowstorm around when you really need one;
Elderly people suffering from dementia should consider ending their lives because they are a burden on the NHS and their families, according to the influential medical ethics expert Baroness Warnock.
Perhaps 84-year-old Lady Warnock might consider dispatching herself first – pour encourager les autres, as they say.
Saw this one over at Hotair today.
Words fail.
I’m in an ethical jam on this one. I think its great that Palin kept her Down”s Syndrome baby for this reason. Yet watching and caring for my mother during her 10 year decline and ultimate death from Alzheimer’s has me thinking that there is very certainly a point where it would be kinder to, ahem…. put them down like you would your favorite dog.
Tough one.
There is no doubt I would ever put an animal through as much suffering as my mother endured.
RCGZ….excellent point.But don’t forget,this is a socialist just trying to make way for all the muzzies coming into her country.She really is a thoughtful old cow,eh wot?
If the decision is taken by the patient while sane and lucid, I fully agree with suicide. My wife already knows that if I’m ever diagnosed with Alzheimer’s or ALS, I’m leaving on my own terms. I couldn’t afford private care without ruining the household, so it’s the best solution.
I think that ending one’s life on your own terms when you are in a palliative state is possibly an okay thing to do IF you are of sound mind. But this chick is saying people who have dementia should be making such decisions? Is she suffering from just that kind of infirmity?
Hate to use a hackneyed phrase, but it’s a slippery slope.
This is simply the natural progression of socialist greed.
Resources start getting scarce so kill the weak.
She’s probably a colleague of the “ethical biologist” in the UK (can’t remember his name) who advocates that a woman should have until several hours after a baby is born to decide if she wants an “abortion”. Yes, he really argues this, because, you know, just because the fetus has reached 9 months, and now breathing oxygen, that doesn’t make it human.
This is the inevitable result of combining socialist health care with a demographic collapse. It will come to Canada, too, it will just get here a little later and people will probably be reluctant to say it so bluntly.
The most surprising thing here is that they haven’t packaged that policy recommendation in bureaucratic bafflegab and euphemism.
This woman is poison. Why do people like this view caring for their elders as a burden? It is not.
My dad passed away this year, and went through some difficult times over the past several years. Was he inconvenient at times? Perhaps some might say that. Not me, though. It is an honour and a priviledge to care for the elderly, in whatever small capacity we can. Those of us who have been in this position should feel lucky to have had parents in the first place, and also to have had parents who raised a child with a strong back.
Right now, I’d give my left nut to have my “burden” back again for just five more minutes.
“But don’t forget,this is a socialist” posted @10:25pm
No doubt Justthinkin, doubtless a socialist. Given that her concern seems to be NHS financing. Despite that, seemingly by accident sometimes Socialists hit on something that actually might make sense even to the rabid capitalist/freedom oriented/trying to do the right thing sort of folk.
Makes me sick to listen to the likes of Larry King’s leftists argue that there is only one single point of view that is worth anything at all. On this one, she may be right though for entirely the wrong reason.
Sigh.
“Why do people like this view caring for their elders as a burden” posted at 10:48
I didn’t think it was a burden. My mother still suffered.
RCGZ
“”””” On this one, she may be right though for entirely the wrong reason. “”””
I agree, one needs to consider ( for themselves) the “quality of live” aspect of living
If in a state that my body is alive only to support marinaly other organs that are not functioning as they should, then, well, life is already over, one only needs to lie down motionless
also, if I were to be convicted of a crime I didn’t commit and sentenced to life, then do me a favour, take my to the vet’s for that $40.oo needle
Why not kill off the schizophrenic, the drug addicted, the paraplegic, IQ’s under 80, the fragile old aged, the homeless, and don’t forget the defiant toddler wasting diapers? They are all a drain financially.
In the hearts of the seemingly goofy but not so marginal lefty is a fascist that would if empowered dig mass graves for most of us. The little PETA and GW morons want the planet for themselves, not so very different from their Islamofascist counterpart. They really really do hate humanity.
In the West we are three elections away from the Dark Ages descending again. And, I’m not spewing hyperbole.
We have very serious elections coming up here, in Canada and eventually Britain. God help us if we don’t do the right thing.
It is my view that a will to live exists as a force in people. To live to old age is an act of not only of survival but of spirit. We have no right to decide these things for someone else for it arises out of themselves.
The 84-year-old added that she hoped people will soon be “licensed to put others down” if they are unable to look after themselves.
Someone should tell her , that they would start on her; Baroness Warnock first. As I have said numerous times. The new form of retirement will be a needle in the neck. Thank you socialists for yet more of your brand of compassion leading to death.
You make other death worshippers throughout history look like piker’s. Now they want State sanctioned Patricide or matricide, let alone suicide. As for abortion you have brought back human sacrifice o0r infanticide. Mustn’t touch the serial killers though, there lives are sacrosanct. Murder after all is the socialists broom. People are food.
Soylent green is just around the corner when this quack can advocate “putting someone down” just because they’re inconvenient to care for.
Regard to food issue eldery eat
old people theri body or even skin may show more alregy that never had when they were young
child and eledery or even pregnat woman are more in dnager when faced food posiening
food poising
I would say first
look at fed health program
then packaging company
storage facilty
freezeer facility
raw material shlef life bought
truck with not enough freezer set
and shelves in superstores may not have good freezer
the final is indivisula handling of materila did they kept in refregireator or freezer properly or wash thing need to wash
in case of can if can materils has contrain hazardousl
if you remember Cocacola can outside door was in the place that custoerm without wash the can door drink from can open direclty and they got sick
I donot like to buy can opner drinker because that can able to toudh and able to contamiate easy teh bottle is better
in General food posieng and peoel awarness of wash and company as now comnay get bigger and bigger
the time producte deliver to warhous of compay to deliver to people take 4 days of shelf life and may already not thatmch day left for you to eat
people are nto aware of being big has more trouble and people who are old may get hit easy for neglectance in all above said in first place
sorry for people who lost their love one for lesterin they could stop it Mapel Leaf announce few month ealrie tehy found Surang of needle in their meat that time may have who know enemies or some one put it intentionaly thos rich has too many problmes as well but few month after we face all loset then minster noteven show any care about people lost their family taht is real shamefull and this is proof he is not qualfy
dealing with food must the minster be responsbile person to know it all not laught it!!
Health and healthy food is important for eldery
Did somebody put the old girl down?
No? Pity.
She’s speaking from experience?
She’s speaking from experience?
Suggesting that someone with dementia can make a voluntary decision to step into the strike zone and take one for the team is a stretch. Most of them just want to eat ice cream and sit around. How much of a burden is that? When I was a kid, most of my friends had a grandparent or aunt living with them. They just sort of blended in with the furniture.
A few of them actually do make a choice to pack it in. My dad walked into a blinding snowstorm once, and my sister just barely managed to get him back. He was stiff as a board. We thought he was confused at the time, but we were probably the confused ones.
The woman who said this is probably in the early stages of dementia, and doesn’t like her prospects.
Wow. She was once Britain’s “leading moral philosopher. She says dementia sufferers are “wasting other people’s lives.” I wonder what you call her type of morality.
Toward the perfect ant colony.
What do you get when you cross Baroness Warnock with BlackJack Kevorkian?
The UK’s National Health Service.
It has become disturbingly apparent to me that today people are regarded as human resources by the forces of government. They are needed as cannon fodder in wars, they are needed to pay taxes, and they are even needed to fund the mandates of politicians that are projected far into the future.
In short, humans are a necessary cog in the socio-economic-political machine. Even computers eventually require some human operator when you can’t find a way to replace them or outsource them.
There are two different subjects here: 1) whether or not a person should decide to end their own life; and 2) whether the British NHS should be the arbiter of when a person should end their own life.
These are two entirely different subjects and do not belong together. I’ll leave item 1) completely aside.
As to whether the NHS should be allowed to make this determination, I’ll suggest the following.
We’ll discuss whether or not there is any legitimacy to Baroness Warnock’s idea when we have first delivered cyanide capsules to every child molester languishing in prison and everyone who has been convicted dead-bang on a Murder One, and everyone guilty of terrorism and treason against the people of the allied nations.
If the British NHS wishes to discuss Baroness Warnock’s suggestion, then first I demand that the group I’ve mentioned above be placed under the edict first.
Then come back and talk to me.
Penny: “We have very serious elections coming up here, in Canada and eventually Britain. God help us if we don’t do the right thing. ”
You are bang on Penny. The euthanasia thing is one of those social engineering ideas that always start off with caring and concern for the intended victims.
The Gun Control revolution comes to mind as a good example of SE. What began as a income producer for an immigrant lawyer ended up as a $2 billion blitzkrieg. SWAT teams raided small businesses and the homes of the elderly, often producing embarrassing results. It seems that real criminals have have the police so busy today they have no time for the senior citizen gun collector.
Coming to a Canadian hospital or Liberal platform near you soon. This is what happens when the insurer and the payer are one in the same.
Well, we already do have selective killing in this country……it is called the aborting of babies who are found to have “defects”.(and, no, this is not some religious rant against abortion, as I am an atheist)
Yet, these same “progressives” will fight to keep Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernado and Joseph Fredericks(if you have not heard of him, google him)alive.
In the case of Fredericks, the inmates took care of him, but in the other 2 cases, those pieces of murdering scum are alive today because of the efforts of leftarded jerk off artists!
Take a card out of the family oriented Easterners playbook and try and put three generations in one house. Thats how they ve been doing it down in Asia for centuries, where, incidentally.
Blame it on socialism all you want, but the problem here is the inherent individualism – some of the more morally conscious amongst you will take care of your parents well into their old age, but frankly speaking, the old age home is a very western phenomenon. The problem lies there, not with lefties seeking immigrants from certain communities as one ‘thinker’ here suggests.
Most people in the west essentially switch off from their parents after a certain age and begin to see them as a burden. Killing them off doesnt require a leap of imagination.
I’m with Penny – there’s all kinds of people who are considered to be a “drain” on our health care resources. How about other chronic illnesses or children with very invasive cancers that require months or even years of treatment. I guess in Warnock’s utopia we should be putting them down too.
Like JJM said – the old bitch should lead by example.
My grandfather lived with us for the last 5 1/2 years of his life, after suffering a debilitating stroke that left him completely paralyzed on the left side of his body.
He wasn’t whole, physically or mentally, after that but he was still my grandfather. We loved him and cared for him in the fullness of human dignity until he died in 1993. We’d never, ever consider putting them down.
Whittle is exactly right, although I would amend his comment slightly to say it’s the decline of respect for the family (and the remaking of it, by liberals, into a mish-mash of whatever the hell people think a family should be on any given day) that’s causing the problem.
Also, I think abortion is part of the issue. First – if you deny the humanity of the unborn because they aren’t “fully human”, it isn’t a leap to deny the humanity of an elderly person who can’t feed himself anymore. Evil begets evil.
And, as eco-nuts and other various liberals encourage us not to “breed” and choose not to have any children, they are setting themselves up for their elderly years relying on the state to care for them.
My grandmother, my parents, and my in-laws will always have a place to live if they start to deteriorate mentally or physically. Being pro-life is not just about the unborn, but about protecting the dignity of life from conception to NATURAL death.
“Elderly people suffering from dementia” are far less of a threat to society than those who’ve contracted the socialist disease. So, if euthanasia is to be considered, it’s best applied against Baroness Warnock and her kin.
“Blame it on socialism all you want, but the problem here is the inherent individualism…” (whittle, 8:52 AM)
Excellent point. Selfishness can take many paths, including a “conservative” one. God looks into the heart of each of us and knows us for what we are, and I doubt that the ideologies we proclaim figure much in His assessment.
“…the old age home is a very western phenomenon.”
So is advanced medicine, which is keeping people alive and healthy past 80 years.
Nursing homes are for people who need 24 hour care, which no single family can possibly provide. Grandma in that three generation Asian house dies off long before she gets to the stage she needs 24 hour care in a Western style nursing home. Usually from a cold the kids bring home from school or the playground.
Personally I’ve worked in a few nursing homes as a PT, and I HATE ’em. They uniformly suck. No doubt I’ll change my mind when I get to the point where I need help wiping my butt, and the alternative is the Long Nap. Either way, I’ll be damned if I let the likes of friggin’ Baroness Warnock decide when I should shuffle off.
This is the “useless eaters” argument coming from Baroness Warnock, nothing other. Pure socialist ideology, stripped of its fancy veneer of caring and warm cuddly feeeeelings.
We can also thank socialism for a tax structure that forces women to work outside the home and stick their kids in day care. How you going to look after Grandma 24/7 in your three generation house and hold down a steady job too, Whittle?
Socialism this, socialism that. Do you really need to call name what is undoubtedly a non-political phenomenon by a political name?
A selfish person will make this claim. A non-selfish person wont. Its really quite simple, and at its heart lies individualism, which embodies selfishness. Me, mine, I, me, mine, I. Where any of the ‘isms’ fit in is beyond me.
Phantom,
This is new. Socialism forces women to work?
Is this the same socialism that you deride for providing paid maternity leave and whatnot in Europe? Mandatory hours of for parents in places like Finland?
China is arguably one of the most socialist countries in the world. India, until recently, was verysocialist. Between them, we re looking at a third of the worlds population. They find a way to balance everything. The causality you wish to highlight is too ambiguous to draw any conclusion.
Individualism, however, is rampant in the west, but not in the east. Perhaps you should seek a causality there?
Every individual in the west is encouraged to go out and buy a house, and take on all the debt and mortgage that comes with it. Odds are, women would not need a second job if they werent so focused on paying off all the debt they accumulate just to move out of their parents home.
It goes two ways, sonny. Selfish people are selfish people, whatever the merits are.
The cost of living is higher in
Baroness Warnock hmm if we are going to start with the “useless eaters” Her class would be an excellent place to start. As I understand that .03 of Britons control what over a third of the wealth, we will take hold of that after offing “Lord and Lady Muck” As an added bonus we would be getting “carbon credits” up the wazoo the rich have bigger houses, cars, boats, planes, racehorses, conspicuous consumption indeed! Off’em! As for the “career criminals” them too, hmm lets see the “machinery” is oiled and working who else doesn’t look like “US” A slippery slope indeed. Seeing someone through their final days is the right thing to do, we will all be there someday. We were there for my folks and my kids will be there for us,was it easy, no. No one said life would be “easy” My folks were a treasure I would give a lot for a little more time with them. They were the “greatest generation”.
Cheers Bubba
The 84-year-old added that she hoped people will soon be “licensed to put others down” if they are unable to look after themselves.
That’s a great idea — maybe we should extend that to the welfare population in the USA as well! Get rid of those 40-50 million people and of course everyone without health care insurance (another 45 million) while we’re at it…(sarc off
Whittle is right. It is individualism, primarily.
When my mother in law got pancreatic cancer, I quit my job (though I did some work on her good days) and took care of her in her home, and friends came and stayed with her at night. My 17yo took care of her siblings, making supper, doing laundry etc in my house. My husband helped in the evening until the night help came in. This was straight for 12 months. She was 84. I don’t know of anyone at that age who survived for 12 months with end stage pancreatic cancer.
My husband and I are health professionals. We KNOW that what the Baroness proposes is right around the corner in Canada. Docs (our COLLEAGUES FOR GOD’S SAKE) and the social worker went behind my back and told my mother in law that if she felt she was too much of a burden on me they would be happy to arrange hospice care.
I wasn’t requiring enough social services I guess….
The Drumbeat
By William Staneski
[…]
It’s the drumbeat of the left. It is political, philosophical, theological, and social. It pervades every activity. It is post-structural, post-modern, post-everything in the parlance of the day. It is tolerant, diverse, non-judgmental, non-discriminatory, egalitarian, politically correct, multicultural, globalist, and collectivist. It insists that there are no rights and wrongs, no moral absolutes. It turns everything upside down in its looking glass world. It denies the correctness of all that produced what our culture revered before the deconstruction of the world in accordance with the tenets of cultural Marxism.
The rest HERE
kingstonlad:
I’d be genuinely and sincerely interested to hear your views about abortion and disabled children – especially because I’m told time and again by folks who defend this practice that it’s only “religious nuts” who object to the selective aborting of disabled children.
Phone call for Baroness Warnock…there is a certain Dr. Mengele that would like to arrange for a consultation with you. Do you have Friday open? Oh, and the good Dr. mentioned the subject of the meeting as something about a franchise of bio fuel processors connected to nursing homes that would produce a new type of H82 fuel? Yes Baroness, I’ll confirm the meeting — just a little after sun down.
Sorry to break it to you folks, but this of which you speak is already here…covertly. I’m a canadian presently visiting my inlaws in the UK. My 73 yr old formerly healthy mother in law has cancer, of which is treatable with SOME success. After diagnosis, she was given a presciption for morpine and told to go home and get her affairs in order. because her daughter is a Nurse in the NHS, she was able to advocate for her and get her the Chemo and Immune system boosting drugs she needs. She is currently responding very well Her chances for remissiin now seem a LOT better. How many other people are being “put down” in this sneaky way? As my Sister in law says “Who are they to steal or hope?”
paging Dr. Shipman for the Baronless Warnock!
Whatta reason to be armed or what. Anyone thinking this won’t wind it’s way to socialists over here, better think again.
Well, of course, pragmatically, euthanizing those with dementia makes sense. And, of course, pragmatically, sterilizing the retarded makes sense as well. But of course, no one would advocate the latter… oh, what’s that you say? The sainted Tommy Douglas, father of Medicare, did? Oh, well, scratch a socialist, find a killer.
It really makes me laugh when I hear the leftards refer to the Americans as “killers”. In the five conflicts of the 20th century that the Americans were involved in (WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War), they killed fewer people than the Germans did in WWII (including the 6 million Jews), or than Stalin did in Ukraine, or than Mao did in China. To be a truly effective killer, first you have “to love mankind”.
Whittle said: “This is new. Socialism forces women to work?”
Uh huh. When the government takes more than half your income, Dad can’t carry the bag alone. So Mum puts the kids in daycare and works too. Gotta pay the rent, Whittle.
If not for all the loving, caring social programs Mummy would be at home looking after Grandma and the kids like she used to. That’d be the much reviled and spit-upon Traditional Family Unit the Left has been trying to destroy since the 1930’s.
In China they have actual slavery. Currently they are right on course for a mega financial meltdown. They are probably going to have a really ugly civil war in the next few years to go with the ecological calamity they’re having right now.
India was a famine ridden basket case until the Sikhs finally got tired of it and SHOT Indira Ghandi, thereby breaking the strangle hold of the communists in that country. Their civil war was pretty short, most people missed it.
Individualism created the modern world, Whittle. The wonderful East was dragged into the modern world kicking and screaming the whole way. Individualism tempered by Christian values beats socialism every single time.
Christian values are what makes offing inconvenient old people a bad thing, in case you had lost the thread of the argument. Also makes poisoning baby food bad, poisoning entire river systems, letting 30 million people you don’t like starve, stuff like that.
The East has nothing to teach us about morals, my friend.
Sounds kind of like that movie ROBOTS where robats with malfunctioning parts are scrapped AND THEY PROBIBLY WANT TO SAVE THE ENDANGERED SPOTTED TIGERFISH
No hunting, no death penalty for mass murderers, but kill Granny and the inconvenient babies.
Utopia.
This say’s it all. You may have to click on Sothpark vids:
http://watch.thecomedynetwork.ca/#clip10960
South park
Free Hat
Season 6 (609)