“The StarPhoenix used ‘Mother-In’ in the headline’!”
About 70 mothers and children attended the event, prompted by a blog post in which NewsTalk 650 producer Tammy Robert commented on a politician’s choice to breastfeed during a press conference. Her entry, entitled Children and the Places They Don’t Belong, created lots of debate after it was posted last week. In it, she criticized Saskatchewan Green party Leader Amber Jones’s decision to include her six-month-old daughter in a media event.
The tolerant left strikes again. In response to Tammy Roberts’ criticism that a baby has no place as a political prop, 35 women arrived with 35 props to protest on her employers’ doorstep.
“I am mammal, hear me roar”.
What else can you say about a woman who would show up for a breast feeding solidarity march, other than that life must be pretty damned dismal if you have to resort to digging about inside your bra to find a sense of importance.
Add me to the list of people who isn’t bothered by public breast feeding. Granted, having 4 kids who were breast fed has probably made me less sensitive to mothers who do breast feed.
crinky:
You are correct when you write, with reference to my post, that context is important. Let me explore with you this insight of yours. In Africa, a woman who breastfeeds in public is probably not trying to draw attention to herself. How could she, when so many others are doing likewise? Nor is she trying to assert power over others. Her actions cooperate with her culture rather than defy it. In Canada, however, things are a bit different, aren’t they? Acceptance of public breastfeeding is not nearly as widespread. When tradition is defied, I think it is reasonable to ask why. Have objective circumstances in the West really changed so much since our mother’s day? Perhaps they have, though I am skeptical.
I would like to offer a thoroughly opinionated statement. Cultures that are on the rise tend to be sexually modest. Those in decline resent “arbitrary prohibitions”. Does this mean that I favor laws enforcing modesty? Actually, yes, up to a point, but only up to a point. If a society is determined to cast off those restraints that contribute to security and prosperity, a few more laws won’t make much difference. The best laws are those that don’t need to be written.
poor warwick..guess there’s no point trying to sell you a subscription to playboy magazine ?
and cows…must be gag making seeing all them humungous udders as you drive past a herd of holstein friesens eh ?
and milk…walking thru safeway with cartons and bottles and JUGS of milk in strawberry chocolate and vanilla just stacked up to the rafters !!!
and the shame you must feel…so dirty inside knowing that YOU breast fed onceupon a day and you will never ever EVER scrub clean INSIDE!
MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
i say warwick old stick… as far as i can remember changing diapers with all the stink and etc was enjoyable because i was engaged in a holy role that being recreating myself in the hope my best parts would be carried on after me….and anyway getting peed in the face by the little guys was humblingly funny…THEN i wasn’t the self adoring great man for sure was i ?
so anyhow where’s your frickin humanity warwick….?
Posted by: QEvron at May 1, 2008 1:32 PM
there’s a rumor going around that kate’s barren. gawd is infinite in his wisdom.
Thanks for your answer.
Quickly it was removed. I was about to offer an objective opinion Kate, which in fact was something of a defense of you.
You do blather on though like someone who doesn’t have any Children. You see, my Dear, when you have Children and you are a thinking, caring Human Being, you think about their future. You think about how much bullsh*t politicians have fed out in your lifetime, and you gravitate toward the one thing some of us know is truthful. Ourselves.
I was born to a good woman, and a Red Cross nurse who attended to those who suffered during the Battle of Britain and later.
If you are going to run an informative blog, you have to take the bad with the good. If you are not up to that, stop trying to control peoples thoughts and please be quiet.
You often times offend the memory of the 8th Battery, 1st Div, RCA.
I rest my case.
Hugger
I dunno RSP, there is nothing sexual about breastfeeding. Except perhaps for some kinky rumors regarding the fetishes of some agribition attendees ……but I digress.
On the other hand there are examples of sexually modest cultures that are not on the rise, Muslim for instance, at least not advanced in technology or scientific discovery.
demented…tasteless demented onanistic twaddle.
I don’t have a problem with women breast feeding in public, but like other people have stated feedings can be planned better so they do not have to be out in the open all of the time. This reminds me of my experience as a waiter with some “diabetic” customers. They will walk into a busy place and demand a table and service “now” because “I’m a diabetic and I need some juice”. If this happened rarely I wouldn’t b*tch but it happened all the time with mostly the same customers. If it is such an emergency all the time, why do you put yourself in that situation. Carry a juice box (or bottled breast milk) and quit inconvincing everyone. Feed your kids at home, or plan for breaks so you can have some privacy. Don’t just whip it out at every coffee shop you go to, others have gone their to enjoy themselves too.
FYI: twice we had customers leave our restaurant because they were uncomfortable with the situation right beside them. The restaurant and the waiter end up taking the financial hit and loss of clientele because of the actions of some.
I LUV BOOBS
Gee Hugger, I’ve got an even better thought for you to chew on:
Who the hell are you to tell Kate how to run her blog?
Posted by: Yukon Gold at May 1, 2008 2:44 PM
And I’ve got an even better thought for you.
What about this free speech issue that Ms. Kate keeps telling you about?
Hugger
John,
It doesn’t make me gag nor particularly do I care much.
My problem with it is simply that people used to have respect for others, used to demand politeness from others and used to return that politeness in kind. People used to be far less selfish. Now no one has any problem being an ass while demanding it as their “right” without thinking for half a second about anyone but themselves – as if they alone in the world has any rights.
And as I’m only in my 30’s it’s not like that was all too long ago.
Without standards of decorum you get… today’s lousy society filled with narcissistic, selfish, rude and obnoxious idiots running around with chips on their shoulders. And it started with the boomers and seems to be worse with the children of boomers.
is it just me or are the usual lactating lot going on public display sort of exibitionists that we dont care to be seeing the pair anyway. its usually the birkenstock sect with braided pits and a backend that looks like a scoop of mashed potatoes pushed thru a frost fence.
se xy, I think not.
cal2… Umm, I don’t think breastfeeding is supposed to be sexy. It’s supposed to give nourishment to a child.
exactly, and the ones that are so adamant about displaying the organs are the ones that wouldnt be requested otherwise.
actually human breasts are se x organs, we are one of the only animals to display them prominently up front. an adaptation to up right posture and a virtual version of the buttock mating end if I remember the anthropology of it .
otherwise we would have magazines of elbows and forearms and such
Well, here is a thought for the anti breast feeders to consider. Even for the most discreet, there are sometimes extenuating circumstances. For example: some babies do not accept plastic substitutes, smelly bathrooms are not the best place to feed a newborn, ditto for a hot vehicle, maybe the family is on vacation far from the privacy of home, a full breast can be quite painful for mothers. Show a little compassion.
Anyway, breastfeeding is not about you, no one is trying to embarrass or offend you. Just close your eyes, take a deep breath and avert your eyes. BTW, if you hear the cries of “oh baby, oh baby”, the meaning will be entirely different from your sexual thoughts. 🙂
“And it started with the boomers and seems to be worse with the children of boomers.”
Here here!
synonym for “baby boomers” = “me ,me, me”
I call schmotzies on ALL of you guys that are posting stuff like this: ” Umm, I don’t think breastfeeding is supposed to be sexy. It’s supposed to give nourishment to a child.”
If you say you’ve never copped a look at the boob I say “Ya Right”.
I could care less if a woman breast feeds in public, as long as the kid doesn’t projectile vomit.
A politician using her suckling kid as a prop is pretty lame, any woman can be sweet, the trick is finding a woman that can twist a kids ear to bring them in line later in life, that impresses me. What’s the sense in nurturing a whole generation of spoiled brats?
I breastfed eight children, on demand. That meant, that they were always with me, and I fed them when they were hungry. In all that time,(which adds up to YEARS) I never heard a complaint, and I also never witnessed anyone else nursing in a grotesque or provoking way.
I’m embarrassed to share some head-space with some of you. You ruin my credibility as a conservative person. I’ve never been embarrassed by a nursing mother. (I’m pretty sure I’ve never embarrassed anyone by nursing, either.)
Stop being such frickin’ idiots. Choose something REALLY bad to get all het up about.
Hey Greg, free speech means that you’re free to start your own blog and say what you want on it. You aren’t free to use someone else’s venue for you own ends.
Otherwise, CBC should be make room for people like Kate to get on their soapbox.
Hey Half Canadian, I believe Kate has blogged on CBC in the past. Just sayin’.
Imagine how much more the press would respect a leader like Maggie Thatcher if she breast fed on cue for the British press? She’d go from “Iron Lady” to “Milk Maid” all in one flash-bulb ridden baby sized gulp.
Public figures need to recognize the requirement for appropriate display. How they choose to behave in front of us reflects on how we judge their worth.
Does any public figure NEED to breast feed during a press conference? Are baby sitters and bottles illegal?
good for you lwestin. bet you didnt have time for a march on the legislature with glombed on props in hand.
im not offended by breastfeeding either, im offended by folks that seem to want to flaunt things for no other reason then they have nothing better to do. take the greenies dressed in whale suits or panda suits or tree suits that actually think that walking in a parade with a bunch of sandaled exhippies with tossled hair and squirrels living in their beards collecting welfare on the side is actually an accomplishment.
Thanks for the memory (O:}
My Granny used to use the phrase: “About as usefull as two tits on a log” quite a lot. Just remembering the way she had of saying it, brought a smile .
Free speech, Hugger? Are you dumb, or ignorant?
This is a privately-maintainted forum. The rules are as Kate sets them.
If ever Kate files an injunction to prevent you from saying something stupid, then yeah, we can talk about free speech.
Free speech, Hugger? Are you dumb, or ignorant?
This is a privately-maintainted forum. The rules are as Kate sets them.
If ever Kate files an injunction to prevent you from saying something stupid, then yeah, we can talk about free speech.
Posted by: Yukon Gold at May 1, 2008 5:56 PM
The more stumps like you open their mouths, the more irrelevant you make the argument of freedom of speech put forth here on this, err umm ..privately maintained forum.
The rules are as Kate sets them you say! So there are rules as the Human Rights Commissions set them.
So there are rules as the Gun Control legislations says.
So there are the rules as per the Gun Registry.
I don’t care for those rules very much, do you?
You said; If ever Kate files an injunction to prevent you from saying something stupid..
Criminelly Nutsy,
I don’t pick on people who are so dense that they would say something like that. Instead, I usually leave them to bask in their ignorance. Que sera, sera…
P.S. Yukon Gold is also a Potato
Hugger
Free speech doesn’t HAVE to be stupid, it just so often IS.
The same people that get riled up and nasty and mouthy and , yes- even quite vulgar in their support for the ‘free speechers’ (a cause I support) are askance at a couple of moms, on a lark, supporting another mom who was publicly dissed for nursing (GASP) in PUBLIC.
I realize its all about politics. But a little voice keeps asking me…if our side wasn’t so repulsive, would we get more converts?
Oh, geez… I can’t believe we’re debating this. I mean, I thought conservative guys liked boobies… so what if a baby’s getting his/her dinnies from one, and we can see it?
Perspective, guys…
That’s not nearly as bad as seeing naked guys walking down the street in one of those “gay” parades… wouldn’t most guys rather see breastfeeding than other guys’ peepees?
What is really funny is how obvious it is that so many of you were not in attendance at the press conference, did not see the press conference first hand, and have probably not even read descriptions of the press conference. For the record, here is what happened.
Baby was breast fed before press conference began.
Father took baby, disappeared for duration of press conference.
Press conference.
Press asked to see baby after press conference.
Press jumps on mother for using baby as prop.
Now, maybe some of the ignorant and ill informed can just stop.
Maybe next time Robert Fife calls us knuckle draggers on CTV,
35 of us should show up with Bibles, beer, popcorn and various “conservative props” ?
“Her actions cooperate with her culture rather than defy it. In Canada, however, things are a bit different, aren’t they?”
Her actions have nothing to do with the prevailing culture. Breast-feeding takes place regardless of culture. Where it takes place is not determined by culture but by neccessity. Women in Canada did not breast-feed in public in the past. Agreed. A woman a hundred years ago breast-fed her children at home. But that is not a reflection on prevailing culture’s attitude to breast-feeding. It is a reflection of that prevailing culture’s attitude towards women in general. Women did not work back then. They stayed at home, making it easier for them to breast-feed at home. This lady is clearly a working woman. Breast-feeding in public is not just an African phenomenon – it is visible wherever women work -such as the agricultural lands in South East Asia and Africa. It is done out of neccessity. Sure they could hide behind a tree and do it. But they don’t, largely because people like you are noticeably absent. That isn’t to suggest that there arent people like you – one need only turn to the Moral Police for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice in, you guessed it, Saudi Arabia.
This notion that women’s breasts have some kind of power over men leaves many questions about your outlook towards women. Like the pornography you most likely condemn, you have objectified them. They are not objects. They are people. Who do normal things. Like Breastfeeding. The crucial aspect here is that you would not complain if they were using a bottle to feed the child. Its all about the breast to you.
“Cultures that are on the rise tend to be sexually modest. Those in decline resent “arbitrary prohibitions”. ”
Stagnant cultures tend to be sexually modest, especially cultures that see themselves as superior to the rest. The Muslim world, for example. China and India are anything but modest. Just tap into the pop-culture there. You will see plenty of public breastfeeding in both those countries.
“I don’t have a problem with women breast feeding in public, but like other people have stated feedings can be planned better so they do not have to be out in the open all of the time. ”
Babies get hungry, when babies get hungry. Not at specific times. You cannot forcefeed them to ensure they stay on a timetable. When you have children, you will realise that. If timing was possible, the first few months after childbirth would not be wracked by feeding times at 3 am. Ask Lwestin.
“People used to be far less selfish.”
Yes, and life was amazing back in the past. Especially when you look back with those rose-tinted glasses. People/Society do not change dramatically.
“im not offended by breastfeeding either, im offended by folks that seem to want to flaunt things for no other reason then they have nothing better to do.”
Like Kate or Cal2 on Smalldeadanimals.com?
In the last 20 years of working and travelling in and around the Greater Toronto Area I could count the number of times I’ve seen a woman breast-feeding in public on about 1.5 hands.
The completely natural concept of breast-feeding a la Africa (for example) is so the woman can strap the kid on her chest whlie she works in the field or the hut or whatever. When the baby feels a ‘need to feed’, the ‘ole zoomer is right there.
Breast-feeding (or any other type of feeding) is not on a schedule imposed ON the baby, but rather BY the baby. Any mother or father of a newborn can attest to this.
To breast-feed for political points is just sleazy posturing.
So ‘Tanks for the Mammaries’ and always remember the old adage – ‘Tits are for kids’.
How about a politically correct show, where down at the French Maid , instead of tassles we do a double reverse swing with two babes held on only by suction. if we could get some other political hack to do it , say Sheila Copps , even better. or judy skro , the importer extraordinare of russian strippers. or ….. Svend Robins…..
oops , lost my dinner.
Natural or not, there is no bigger turn off than some woman tossing her tit out in public for her kid to suck on.
Have some freakin’ dignity, throw a blanket over yourself or step into the women’s restroom.
Been to weddings and other gatherings when I wished the mother would stick a tit in the baby’s face.
Showing up at a business meeting with a baby? … maybe it works in the movies.
My wife managed to let me feed the kids (her milk) when she went off a did mundane things like get her hair cut … not sure, but I think I could have done it if she was at a press conference.
At the risk of beating on the braindead, I’ll go again at Hugger
He said: “The rules are as Kate sets them you say! So there are rules as the Human Rights Commissions set them.
So there are rules as the Gun Control legislations says.
So there are the rules as per the Gun Registry.
I don’t care for those rules very much, do you”
Truly Deep, Hugger. Gun rules are not relevant. You might as well invoked wire transfer regulations in Chile for reference.
So, your argument is:
Kate supports free speech,
therefore
Kate should allow you or anyone to post anything they want on her blog.
Don’t break an ankle with that logical leap.
I’ll break it down for you, you dough-head: I can sing the entire Dire Straits catalog in my bathroom. You can, without impeding my right to free speech, refuse me access to your crapper to do the same.
Breaking it down even further, the HRC’s -> Telling people they can’t sing in their own bathrooms.
I can’t believe I’m still arguing about this.
And, yes, I know Yukon Gold is also a potato. It’s what some learned folks might call a double-entedre. Or even triple, as it’s my former stomping grounds. Thanks for the tip, though.
Apologies to Kate for being slightly off topic, but I am rather taken aback by the negative attitudes regarding public breastfeeding on display here. Until now I honestly had no idea such attitudes widely existed. Seriously. Somewhere along the way I must have missed the ‘breastfeeding is equivalent to sex or using the washroom’ lesson/sermon/talk.
Anyway, as a father of four breastfed children I can say that my wife’s experience is best reflected by the comments of lynnh and lwestin. Warwick, I am normally a big fan of your comments, but comparing feeding a baby to using the toilet? Would you eat in a public washroom? Sheesh.
I always thought the dignified thing was to carry on as if breastfeeding (if done discretely) was no different than bottlefeeding, rather than slinking away to hide as if it were something shameful.
Greg;
You’re an intelligent guy who said something stupid in your 2:37 post. It’s always stupid to take cheap shots. Delving into anyone’s personal life is out of bounds when you have the anonimity that this kind of forum provides.
If you don’t realize it, taking shots from behind the wall so to speak is a coward’s way. The next time you do it, how about putting up your name, address, and other particulars so we can all have a look at your life. Show us you’re not.
What’s in those bras is important.
“…life must be pretty damned dismal if you have to resort to digging about inside your bra to find a sense of importance.”
Some women Do define themselves by their role as a mother, including the nutritional aspects. Just like some (?!) men define themselves by their jobs.
That comment was unjustifiably belittling, Kate.
Gee, I come back after several hours and the gang is still fixated on breasts as in feeding and not the using babies for political ego. Someone even implied that out web hostess might be barren! Pathetic.
I would also like to see who here is willing to eat in a public washroom? Call me a woose but there are some washrooms that I wouldn’t do my business in let alone eat.
There are more moms breastfeeding in public than you would believe. It is just that they choose to be discrete and let the child enjoy a peaceful meal. Think a quiet leisurely meal verses grabbing a quick bite to eat in a fast food.
btw, I’m a father of two BF children and I found the whole thing Fascinating, both from the biological point of view and the “Madonna with Child” image that the act invokes. My darling wife wouldn’t trade that experience for the world either.
As usual the reasoned ones explain it so well, discretion is the word.
Difference in a kiss between two people in love and two people swapping spit and displaying all their sexual privacy in front of others is more than apparent to this writer, guess to others it’s still a mystery – this seldom seen trait, discretion.
Like rushing your nursing baby to a protest to display your privacy, to publicly make your political point. Were they peta members BTW?
Anyway, this mom nursed on demand…never was an issue, or anyone offended as I recall and conversely no moron(s) trying to ‘sneak a look’ either.
babbies like mommies close and comfy, can you imagine a baby even trying to eat with all that commotion? not likely. He’s probably crying because he’s scared not hungry.
as it’s my former stomping grounds. Thanks for the tip, though.
Posted by: Yukon Gold at May 1, 2008 10:36 PM
Well that explains a lot.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with giant leaps. It is the basis of multiple blog entries here, and you advocate censoring blog posts that don’t make you feel all warm and fuzzy.
Got you Mr. Potato Head.
Hugger
You’re an intelligent guy who said something stupid in your 2:37 post. It’s always stupid to take cheap shots. Delving into anyone’s personal life is out of bounds when you have the anonimity that this kind of forum provides.
If you don’t realize it, taking shots from behind the wall so to speak is a coward’s way. The next time you do it, how about putting up your name, address, and other particulars so we can all have a look at your life. Show us you’re not.
Posted by: bob c at May 1, 2008 10:53 PM
Ok Bob, let’s examine what you wrote. Apparently there is something you don’t like.
Firstly, when people choose to run a blog like this and take shots at other people on a regular basis, you should be prepared to handle the same and not hide behind the “controlled forum” guise.
Secondly, this venue and many more utilize a lot of shock value to generate hits. Hits translate into advertising dollars etc. for the site owner. Thus its a commercial venture based largely on opinion and shock value.
Thirdly, the tone of discussion is set by the blog operator and when you openly ask for people to contribute money to help you defend yourself against lawsuits that have arisen because you, the blog operator, have linked to inflammatory material which someone else wrote, with the intent of Sheparding the thoughts of the flock, then you shouldn’t get all touchy feely when someone posts something you don’t like. Fair is fair.
Lastly, I’m not making any money from blogging and posting inciting material, so why would I be encouraged to post personal information? People direct all kinds of nasty comments toward me on this blog, and I don’t see you rushing to my defense. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out.
Hugger
Mike T…have your next Timmy’s in the men’s washroom…then think about it.
I too am surprised at the negativity here.There is nothing shameful or exhibitionist about breastfeeding, and most of you here have probably been in the presence of breastfeeding and didn’t know it.The ‘exhibitionist’ types are everywhere and do not ‘define’ breastfeeding moms.
The comment by kevin sums it up.This was an anti-mothering media report (Roberts) And if I had been in the area I would have cheered the breastfeeding moms on as long as they had a blanket over the shoulder.
A lot of people do not even realize that Roberts was not even present at the event. Her blog post was second or third hand knowledge filled with a big dose of self importance.
Most of the comments here seem to be based on the personal opinion of a reporter who was not present at the event. That would be what, fourth hand knowledge?
I actually know some of the people who were at that protest at Rawlco. One of them is on leave from where I work. It wasn’t a breast feeding protest, it was mothers who felt unfairly smeared by the media.
Unfairly smeared by the media, who could believe a wild charge like that? My wife is upset by the comments too, and I am beginning to see why. At first I thought it was just funny and overblown.
Hugger;
With due respect, I’ve tried to stay away from personal invective, including with respect to anything you’ve said. As much as I disagree with a lot of it, I don’t make it personal.
As far as defending you, I’ll be by your side the moment I see someone whom I don’t know, and therefore can’t trust, putting out personal info about you that I can’t verify and therefore have any reasonable faith in. I’ll be doubly on your side if it’s information you purposely chose not to enter into the public realm. I would regard it as a cheap shot and a low blow. Please note that the reason we’re having this discussion is because you didn’t abide by that.
With regard to your sentence, “I’m not making any money from blogging and posting inciting material, so why would I be encouraged to post personal information?”, newspaper columists, talking heads on TV etc, all make money by expressing their opinions. I fail to see why a blogger, if they were making money at it, would have to apologize for it.
Do you believe that it would be fair game to dig into personal information about a columist in a newspaper or magazine, information that he or she had quite purposely never made public, and then use it as a weapon in a disagreement you’re having with their expressed opinions?
I can’t believe you would think that reasonable and fair anywhere. Why you would think it okay in this setting baffles me. If you do, you’ve got a rather large McCarthyist streak running through you that you need to confront and deal with. It simply isn’t fair game.
As I said in my first post, you’re an intelligent guy. We’re going to find out whether you are also a big enough man to admit that you went somewhere you never should have gone.
DF,
“I always thought the dignified thing was to carry on as if breastfeeding (if done discretely) was no different than bottlefeeding, rather than slinking away to hide as if it were something shameful.”
That’s the point. Discretely is what is missing. We’re talking about people who are not descrete. And any bodily function is basically the same. Just because your offspring is involved doesn’t make it different.
There’s nothing revolting about it. Just keep it aside like you would if you were doing some other activity. Being uncouth about it shows poor upbringing and poor maners.
It isn’t showing any disregard for women or babies to suggest that it isn’t polite to make your breastfeeding the star attraction. It’s in poor taste to make it into some kind of statement and shows a lack of dignity.
It’s also self-centred. It assumes that everyone else shares your joy at your creation and should participate. It’s no different than someone who won’t keep their voice down around other people in restaurants as if the whole place cares what you have to say.
It’s simple maners. You notice you don’t see much of it anymore?
“Babies get hungry, when babies get hungry. Not at specific times. You cannot forcefeed them to ensure they stay on a timetable. When you have children, you will realise that. If timing was possible, the first few months after childbirth would not be wracked by feeding times at 3 am. Ask Lwestin. ”
My wife and I have two kids and we are past the feeding stages. We found that instituting a schedual was very benificial to our family. There were exceptions to the schedual but we still tried to maintain feeding and sleep scheduals from day one (that means keeping them awake that extra 45min to 1hr, or not waiting until they cry to feed them ect..). Do not dismiss other peoples expiriences so quickly, often you don’t know what you are talking about.
Does Kate have kids? I daresay she would make a terrifying mother.
No friends from other ethnic communities.
No public schooling – home-schooling only.
No TV – TV is full of liberals.
No newspapers other than the National Post.
No muslim friends. Ever.
No praising Canada.
No voting for anybody but Kate’s choice.
No going to Toronto/Montreal.
No questioning Kate’s choices/views.
No politeness or consideration – both are too politically correct.
No questioning the Republicans.
No Liberal friends.
No being fed in public.
The list can go on and on.