Pope Endorses Catholicism

What He Said 178 Comments

I’m shocked – shocked – I tell you.
Update, from the comments – Kathy Shaidle recommends Mark Shea’s response to the media reports. “Exactly what Rome did *not* say is that the Catholic Church is the ‘only true Church’. Never mind. It makes a short headline for journalists who cannot be bothered to think.”

178 Replies to “Pope Endorses Catholicism”

  1. “And I tell you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I build my church…” (Matthew 16:18)
    What rock? Not Peter! Peter’s confession, two verses previous – “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
    I could go on, but I have little intellectual patience for RC eisegesis.

  2. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/07/10/pope.churches.reut/index.html
    “A 16-page document, prepared by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict used to head, described Christian Orthodox churches as true churches, but suffering from a “wound” since they do not recognize the primacy of the Pope.”
    Bwhahahahahaha!!! Primacy of the Pope? Who are they bloody kidding! I recognize the primacy of Jesus Christ, not a mere mortal born into sin…..unbloody believable!!!
    Herman at July 10, 2007 6:45 PM
    Herman, Amen.

  3. I’ll grant the Bishop of Rome, chief dictator in the hierarchy of traditionalists, the virtue of ecclesiastical standards. Pity they’re inverted.

  4. Religion or politics; either one will set readers ablaze here at sda. As always though, most come here to verbally joist so to speak, well armed with facts, quotes, scriptures and plenty of opinion. Always a good read no matter what side of the debate you are on. Sure beats that philosophy crap (or anything at rabble).

  6. iBelieve it or not the rest of the world isn’t as big of a pussy as you
    it’s guys like andrew that keep me coming back to SDA. got that monte?

  7. Religion – the meaning of the word is to yoke. It is a yoking together of like minds. Religion was created by man.
    Spirituality is of God. the two are not the same. You can have religion without spirituality and spirituality without religion.
    Jesus taught in parables and only those with ears heard. It’s like the mustard seed – the parables or seeds , some dropped on fertlie ground and some infertile. Jesus did not write the new testment. Neither did his apostles: they were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. St. Paul was not an apostle of Jesus. He received his enlightenment on the road to Damascus and then went to Peter for guidance. Most of the New Testment is of his jouneys and conversions.

  8. While we comment, Catholics the world over will be feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, and caring for the unloved, the sick, the foresaken, as well as the victims of war, famine, pestilence, and natural disasters.
    As James Joyce said, vis a vis the Roman Catholic Church: “Here comes everybody.”
    Like it or not, th-th-th-that’s all folks!

  9. Martin Luther had lots to say about the Catholic Church, rent the movie, remember those 95 theses he nailed to the door of the catholic church.

  10. The Pope is simply ‘branding’ his church at a time when ‘Christianity’ is in crisis. Why is it in crisis?
    Gee, I dunno. Maybe we should look a the recent Synod of the World Anglican Church. The laity said they want the solemnization of same sex marriage, but the bishops (by a very narrow margin) ruled against it. Instead of the issue having been settled (and wasn’t that the purpose of the Synod?), the ‘activist priests’ have decided to rebel and perform SSM anyway.
    Or how about the ‘United Church of Canada’? It’s dying (like it’s aging parishoners) because it stands for nothing and everything. It has no clue as to what it stands for, so people are deserting it in droves.
    OTOH, the Catholic Church draws on deep reserves of tradition and foundation, reaffirming to the public exactly what they stand for. And I think people like that. In a sea of uncertainty and shifting values, people want something of bedrock and see that in Catholicism.
    BTW, for all those leftists who hate Christianity, your bleating on behalf of the poor rings entirely hollow. You loath the idea of volunteerism and feel that all care and concern should be mandated by the state. Yet those poor whom you claim to champion would be far worse off without the incredible works of charity that are a function of the Christian belief system.
    While lefty’s believe that Church’s are hotbeds of regression and right-wing politic-ing, nothing could be further from the truth. Every church I’ve ever attended has stuck to the salt of their teachings. They don’t talk politics and they generate both money and bodies in vast numbers to assist the downtrodden.
    An example? A group of fifteen from our church (including people in their 50’s and 60’s) just returned from rebuilding homes in New Orleans. Another just returned from Malawi – having paid all her own expenses – helping them with education and clean water.
    Thank God for our Churches.

  11. What the Pope said is that Christian Churches that adhere to linkages with the Catholic Church are linked back to Peter and thus Christ. This includes Greek Orthodox and other such churches. The Anglican Church can trace it’s origins back to Rome and Peter before Henry VIII.
    What I think is being missed is the Pope’s assertion that Christians should be careful of what is taught as Christianity: The PTL Club, Scientology, et al. Not all Christians believe the same things 100% – belief in the Pope’s role and his authority is an example.

  12. I am delighted to hear Pope Benny is catholic.
    Of course every thinking catholic wasn’t quite sure.
    Why ride in a Volkswagen when you can ride in a Cadillac? Caveat emptor for those who engage in road rage.
    Rumor has it, that in heaven there is no “coach section”. When you go with God you go first class.
    You just have to observe the 10 commandments of driving with soul.
    Cheers
    Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP
    Commander in Chief
    Frankenstein Battalion
    2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden (Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
    Knecht Rupprecht Division
    Hans Corps
    1st Saint Nicolaas Army
    Army Group “True North”

  13. The Pope is just re-asserting what all Catholics believe anyway and have always believed.

  14. You would think that if Catholicism where the only Church recognized by God that the word would somehow find itself somewhere in the Bible.
    I am on my 94th time reading the book , and it’s not in there. Moreover , the Pope apparently disagrees with his saviour Jesus Christ who said.
    John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    John:10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
    He also disagrees with Acts writer , Luke.
    Acts:4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
    The first time the word Church and Christian is used was no where near Rome.
    Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
    I could go on and on here but denominationalism is a man contrived effort to divert man away from the true source of salvation.
    Jesus Christ , and his blood only .
    Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    Hebrews 9:11
    But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
    12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    13: For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    14: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    15: And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
    So the Pope has no intercessor role or office according to Timothy and Paul.
    1Tm:2:5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    Heb:8:6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    So then , who can you trust or believe , the Pope who has no mentioning in scripture , or the Bible ?
    2Timothy 1:12
    For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
    This ones a no brainer.
    Timothy Coderre

  15. You would think that if Catholicism where the only Church recognized by God that the word would somehow find itself somewhere in the Bible.
    I am on my 94th time reading the book , and it’s not in there. Moreover , the Pope apparently disagrees with his saviour Jesus Christ who said.
    John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    John:10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
    He also disagrees with Acts writer , Luke.
    Acts:4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
    The first time the word Church and Christian is used was no where near Rome.
    Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
    I could go on and on here but denominationalism is a man contrived effort to divert man away from the true source of salvation.
    Jesus Christ , and his blood only .
    Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    Hebrews 9:11
    But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
    12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    13: For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    14: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    15: And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
    So the Pope has no intercessor role or office according to Timothy and Paul.
    1Tm:2:5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    Heb:8:6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    So then , who can you trust or believe , the Pope who has no mentioning in scripture , or the Bible ?
    2Timothy 1:12
    For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
    This ones a no brainer.
    Timothy Coderre

  16. It is a bureaucratic document produced by an bureacracy that is justifying its own existence.
    Christianity got going without the catholic church, continues despite it or any other church and will continue if those churches (as organizations cease to exist)
    SO the pope thinks the group that he leads is more dialled in. Good for him and good for his followers. Everyone else can keep on moving stopping only to admire his FABULOUS prada shoes.
    The timing of this is ridiculous, from a political point of view, assuming they were interested in being seen as being prime minister (first amongst equals) of christianity. Clearly he isnt and this is why there will never be a reconcilliation.
    The vatican is an interesting org and that museum they have in the basement I am sure holds some amazing documents and goodies, likely Elvis and the alien from Roswell. To the extent that it represents an unbroken line of thought and memory it is pretty interesting.
    After that, a church is a church is a church and any hair splitting, ecclesiastical communities etc, is bureacratic infighting and major naval gazing. Given their alleged puprose in life did that document save any souls or did it further some other agenda? Off strategy as far as I can tell.
    But his shoes are FABULOUS.

  17. The Roman Catholic church which I grew up in has a creed which states “I believe in one true Catholic and Apostalic church”. That is the belief and The Bishop of Rome was only stating this fact that is believed. Whether it is right or not can be left to debate. The Church was descended from St. Peter and passed to Linus. This can also be argued since the Essenes, Coptics and other sects were around before the actual church was formed. The church was young and had many differing opinions until the Council of Nice. I have forgotten dates but at one time there were three popes. One in Rome – one in Constantinople and one in France. Constantinople went their way and the orthodox religions were formed. France and Rome came together.
    Martin Luther being a priest of Rome was upset over the selling of indulgences and posted his edicts. There formed Lutheranism and the protest.
    Who is right doesn’t matter. The church is a building, religion is man made and spirituality is what is of importance.

  18. The papacy is in the Bible.
    “You are Peter (Rock), and on this rock I will build my Church” (Matt. 16:18)
    Jesus just gave Simon a new name, Peter (or Cephas, if you prefer the Aramaic version). In the Bible, God gives people new names to indicate that He’s giving them a significant role: Abram became known as Abraham, Jacob became Israel, etc.
    Why was Peter called “Rock”? Because he would be a solid foundation for the Church (as opposed to the house built on sand that Jesus mentioned elsewhere). And why was he a solid foundation? Not because he himself was solid, but rather because God helped him teach the truth: “Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.” (Matt. 16:17)
    Note that Jesus also gives Peter supernatural authority at this time:
    “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matt. 16:18)
    Also, later on, Jesus wanted to preserve the faith of all the Christians, but He prayed only for Peter. He wanted to give Peter the role of preserving the faith of the others:
    “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.” (Luke 22:31-32)
    Jesus could have prayed for all of them, but He prayed only for Peter, because of the role He had given him. Peter was the first Pope.

  19. Revelation 2:18-29 The letter to the church in Thyatira (what I believe is the RC church today) Enlightening.
    Eeyore, the church in Philadelphia was not chastised but only given praise. This is the true church.

  20. Joanne, you’re obviously very angry about the RC Church, maybe with good reason. However, I find your comments most uncharitable and even untrue. (You identify yourself as a Christian, which makes your lack of charity even more disturbing.)
    You say, “The Catholic Church and all it represents is a disgrace to all humanity; the Catholic Church is just a power base, with no Holy Spirit, thus no truth.” This is manifestly false: e.g., I’ve just visited a RC lay community, whose sole purpose is to serve others, especially the poor, which they do magnificently in their own community and all over the world. These people have made vows of poverty–they all wear donated clothes only, among other things–chastity and obedience and live lives of simplicity and sacrifice. One of the reminders to themselves and their visitors is “I am third”: the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) first, neighbour second, and myself last. Hundreds of thousands of people, Christian–non Catholics too–or not have been led to faith or a deeper one through seeing the Gospel lived out practically and uncompromisingly by these charitable, hospitable servants of Christ. (One thinks of Mother Teresa’s Sisters of Charity, Taize, and multitudes of other serving communities as well.)
    Of course, as a human institution, the RC Church has made wrong turns and indulged in sinful behaviour. (In this regard, Pope John Paul II made a large number of public apologies.) But to judge this Church solely on its deficiencies, while overlooking the vast quantity of graces it has contributed and continues to contribute to a broken world, seems to be a symptom of willful blindness and vindictiveness. Kyrie eleison.
    On this feast day of St. Benedict, it seems a good time to reflect on the gentle, learned Benedict XVI, who now sits on the throne of Peter. It is sad that many of his pronouncements anger so many people. However, so did those of Jesus. The post-modern world has been highjacked by the misleading bromide of “tolerance” for all things. This has proven to be an unmitigated disaster. Those churches which have fallen for such pap–including the Anglican Church Of Canada, whose latest Synod has, once again, proven its apostacy–are dying. The Roman Catholic Church? In most parishes, multiple Masses are full of, as batb points out, “everybody”. (True multiculturaism–vs the government-mandated, socially engineered variety–is very much part of the fabric of the RC Church, which is really and truly universal.)
    So, Joanne and others please feel free to offer just criticism of the RC Church. But please also give credit where credit is due. “By their fruits ye shall know them.” The abundant fruit of the RC Church amply displays the action of the Holy Spirit. “[Those]who ha[ve] eyes, let [them] see.” Amen.

  21. Well-said, lookout.
    Let’s remember that the RC Church is the oldest extant institution in the world. If it were as corrupt and decrepit as many would have it, it could never have withstood the slings, arrows, storms, errors, and outright hositility of those who hate it. Jesus said about His Church, founded upon the rock/Petrus, “The gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”
    As it turns out, this is true.

  23. Tim Coderre: well-said.
    Catholic guy: sorry, but your beliefs are based on incorrect translations & unsupportable interpretations of the original writings.

  24. no guff: “Or how about the ‘United Church of Canada’? It’s dying (like it’s aging parishoners) because it stands for nothing and everything. It has no clue as to what it stands for, so people are deserting it in droves.”
    Spot on. I was brought up in the UCC, and it has changed position on virtually every important issue since I was a boy. It reminds me of the late Flip Wilson’s “Church of What’s Happening Now, Baby”. I married a Catholic, and we are raising our two girls in the Church. I take some comfort in the knowledge that what the girls learn today will still be the Church’s position 30 years from now.
    Does that mean I think everything the Catholic Church says is correct? No. I think they made a mistake forbidding priests to marry, and in not allowing the ordination of women. Think of all the scandals that would have been prevented if priests were allowed to have sex. But, right or wrong, the Church stands its ground, and I respect it for that.

  25. Thanks, Kevin B. I appreciate your thoughtful comments.
    However, re the ordination of women: the Anglican Church of Canada (ACC) has ordained an inordinate number of hard and soft feminist “do-gooders”–many middle aged divorcees: a good idea? NOT!! These women, many of whom are not the least bit orthodox–they become “priests” to fulfill their social worker fantasies–have had everything to do with the apostasy of this church.
    And a number of married priests have abused children: I’m thinking in particular of a male priest and scholar who abused both boys and young men: the ACC covered up for him. And his wife–they’re divorced now–in a Stockholm Syndrome scenario, has been a major pro-gay activist in the ACC. (Quite perverse.) Also, many ACC priests both have affairs and are divorced. A married priesthood is no panacea.
    So, Kevin, with due respect, I don’t believe that your regrets about and wishes for the RC Church are likely to bring about the good you desire.

  26. “…this document … is trying to root out the “all religions are exactly the same” mess that has made its way into Catholic schools and other institutions”
    But, but…Shouldn’t the Pope have addressed this far more and divisive issue:
    The Catholic Church’s relationship with Muslims.
    ‘The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841, quoting Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964).
    According to the Catechism, “together with us (Catholics) they (Muslims) adore the one, merciful God.” Pope John Paul II repeats this statement even more clearly. Addressing Muslim youths, the Pope said: “We believe in the same God, the one and only God, the living God, the God who creates worlds and brings creatures to their perfection” (What Dialogue Means for Catholics and Muslims, US Conference of Catholic Bishops)
    In order for the above to be true, Catholics must deny the diety of Christ and rather accept him and Mohammad as prophets of the one true god.
    Tenebris’ point is the very essence of the split:
    “And I tell you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I build my church…” (Matthew 16:18)
    “What rock? Not Peter! Peter’s confession, two verses previous – “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
    Tenebris is obviously right and the ‘rock’ became the very first thing the Catholic Church stumbled over. The rock Jesus referred to is of course, the revelation that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. ‘Peter’ means stone or small rock, but how could anybody think Christ’s Church would be built on Peter, a mortal and a sinner? (Other than, of course, for the purposes of control).
    I personally don’t like the divisions caused by men. There are excellent Catholic Christians as well as Protestant Christians. Interpretation and temporal control remain the problem.

  27. With the other hang-ups the R.C. church adherents have, don’t get them started on the eucharist. While attending a Life in the Spirit conference in the 1970’s, it was explained in a hand-out that only those who accepted the authority of the Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church could participate in the taking of the bread and wine. On Sun. morning at the Protestant service taken by an Anglican minister, he spoke honestly of how it felt to be separated from celebrating communion. The R.C. praise and worship team began weeping as the full intent struck them, and it was a service to end all services. After the weeping and wailing, dance broke out as Protestants and Catholics joined arms and celebrated the union they have as followers of the true head of the Church – the Lord Jesus Christ. I expect on Monday morning, they returned to their old way of thinking.
    At the closing ceremony my friend and I went to the centre of the stadium and took communion from a priest who did not see the scarlet “P” on our foreheads. We expected bolts of lightening to rain from the sky, and I expect if they had known we had disobeyed them, they would have called down a few.
    When they returned to worshipping Mary as Queen of Heaven and mother of God, we no longer attended their meetings. But, we had enjoyed our sojourn among them.

  29. Touche (as in “to-shay”: is there any way to put in the accent?) times two, Kathy!!

  30. …just to clear the air.
    Remember this?
    Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
    Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
    ——————–
    Also, just to clarify Jesus’ position:
    – John 10:30.
    “I and the Father are one.”
    – John 14:6
    “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
    – Acts 4:12
    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
    – 1 Corinthians 6
    Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
    ——————–
    What you have to do:
    – John 3:3
    Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    – Acts 2:38
    Then Peter said unto them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.
    —————-
    What about Mary? No, not the show…
    – Luke 11:27
    And it came to pass, as He spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
    …Jesus’s reply?
    Luke 11:28
    “Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

  31. “Think of all the sex scandals that would be prevented…” and “Touche”
    …well not really. We just haven’t heard about all the ones in the RC church over the years.
    If anything it would be the same scandal if the priests did marry, molestation is molestation.

  32. Wow, tomax, you are REALLY slow on the uptake. Must be a Prot… I know you guys don’t believe in “intermediaries” but maybe you could get my “if only they could get married” comeback explained to you by someone smarter.
    More “scandal of the evangelical mind” stuff.

  33. With respect, tomax, I believe you’re missing the point, which is that marriage and “permission” to have sex have not eradicated sex scandals. Add Hollywood movers and shakers to teachers and politicians . . .
    In fact, I actually think that it is the removal of most barriers regarding sex, including a sense of shame, that has been the main impetus for the increase of sexual impropriety we’re seeing everywhere these days, e.g., a homosexual Anglican priest I know of lived a celibate life in the 70s when being “out of the closet” was not done. Many years later, when societal mores had changed, with the full benediction of various bishops, he came out of the closet with gusto. He ended up murdered by a male, drug provider prostitute.
    I stand by Kathy and my “touche” remark.

  34. lookout – When I stated the Catholic Church, I was referring to the Catholic Church, not its congregation. It is unfortunate that peoples’ works may be in vain because they are ignorant of the truth of the word. The Pope does not represent Christ on earth and Mary is not the Queen of Heaven or the Mother of God; believing such comes with grave results.
    http://www.sxws.com/charis/pope-14.htm
    http://www.remnantofgod.org/evilqueen.htm
    If you believe such things, you are ignorant of the word of the Bible and the ramifications for the belief in such. Sins of the past can be forgiven, but to perpetuate these untruths as gospel is abhorrent. Open the Bible, read and pray for your eyes to be opened, no offense intended. I am a follower of Christ, not man born into sin.
    And I do not affiliate myself with any Church because none stand up to the Word of God.
    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    These are the words of Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified and resurrected; there is no entering the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth but through him.

  35. …well it was a slow day around here
    😉
    kathy, I’m dumber? Hmm my reply was to the ‘touche’ part and not your statment.
    Maybe get someone smarter than me to explain that part too.
    Must be an RC.

  36. lookout.
    Guess I gotta make myself more clear. I don’t believe the touche remark was valid as kathy (speedy) was saying basically the argument of priests marring would cut down (eliminate) sex scandals as par with teachers and politicians sex scandals.
    Maybe for the enlightened crowd like Kathy (sorry for the dig) all sex scandals are the same.
    There is more child abuse and molestation going on in the RC church than say, a school or politician.
    How do I know you ask?
    Well let’s just say I ran faster and grew up in a boarding school, oh say like Mt. Cashel
    Except this was one was in Vancouver and I didn’t sue.

  37. “Think of all the scandals that would have been prevented if priests were allowed to have sex.”
    Let’s start from the beginning before we get into a flaming war here.
    I don’t believe the poster, KevinB, was using the word “ALL” in the absolute sense – as in every single sex scandal would be irraticated by sex.
    (I think he meant marriage and he can correct me if I’m wrong in this observation.)
    Hence the ‘speedy comeback’ of a comparison between priests to teachers and politicians wasn’t in total rebuttal.
    Maybe Kathy is smarter than me and she didn’t mean it as a rebuttal.
    Granted, then I could pursue a known fact of priests also fulfill the role of teachers and politicians n’est pas?
    Maybe Kathy actually was agreeing with the original statement of allowing sex to priests would get rid of sex scandals…
    Ironically wouldn’t that be an ooopsie?
    …ah, but what do I know.
    I’m told I’m slow on the uptake. Gwarsh, now that just sucks.
    😉

  38. The claim that there is more abuse perpetrated by priests than by elementary school teachers is false.

  39. tomax7: Vis a vis your comment: “…kathy (speedy) [Shaidle] was saying basically the argument of priests marring [sic] would cut down (eliminate) sex scandals as par with teachers and politicians sex scandals,” I took exactly the opposite meaning–the one I think she intended.
    Groups of teachers and politicians are rife with sex scandals–there are at least as many as in the priesthood, if not more, but the MSM chooses not to highlight them. (If the members of the MSM got into the sexual impropriety among their group, I suspect the rate of sex scandals would be twice or three times that of priests, teachers, or politicians. But, I digress…)
    As for Joanne’s comment that Mary isn’t the Mother of God, phew. Even Protestants believe that she is, though they don’t ask for her intercession.
    Mary…was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit…an angel of the Lord appeared to [Joseph] in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit…all of this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
    Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear
    a son,
    and they shall call him Emmanuel,”
    which means “God is with us.”
    Matthew 1:18 – 23
    Joanne, a question: How would any of us enter into the Kingdom of Heaven through Jesus if Mary had not said “Yes” (her Fiat) to God when the angel spoke to her and told her what God had planned for her in the salvation of the world through Jesus Christ?
    What do you think is meant by Mary’s words in the Magnificat:
    My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has looked with favour on the lowliness of his servant, Surely, from now on, all generations shall call me blessed”?
    Luke 1:46 – 48

  40. BATB et al, regarding the “Mary, Mother of God” bit, I think that the scriptures are clear that she carried and bore Jesus Christ. Whether or not she should truly be called “the Mother of God” is open for debate, I guess, maybe…see below.
    The part that I’m not sure of (that just occurred to me) is…
    She was found to be of child conceived by the Holy Spirit, but was the “zygote” a product of the Holy Spirit’s (ahem) “man-spirit” and her egg, or was it implanted “ready made”? She could potentially be a “surrogate mother” of God.
    Ahh, shucks, that really is splitting hairs! And it’s a distasteful topic, too.

  41. “Groups of teachers and politicians are rife with sex scandals–there are at least as many as in the priesthood, if not more, but the MSM chooses not to highlight them. (If the members of the MSM got into the sexual impropriety among their group, I suspect the rate of sex scandals would be twice or three times that of priests, teachers, or politicians. But, I digress…)”
    Well that’s just silly groundless speculation.
    You can argue all you want that priests, because of no marriage or not, more or less inclined than teachers or politicians. Myself, I think they are probably no more nor no less inclined.
    The abuse is the problem, obviously. But the compounding problem is not the priesthood or the faculty of teachers, but that (a) a priest is in a position where opportunities for abuse are greater (more one on one with young boys, more year over year connection with the same boys, and he has that whole “power of god” and unquestioned authority thing which might be a little intimidating for a little kid) and (b) a church that has shown itself much more inclined to be compicit and much more capable of hiding the abuse (shuffle off to different parish, have a chat with the local police chief, stronger influence over the family not to make it public “for the good of the church”, etc.).

  42. Joanne, you may not go to any church but you set yourself up to be above the pope: you must be your own arbiter of the faith. I wonder by what authority you do that. Very curious.

  43. Psst Joanne re: Mary Magnificant’s comment…
    Call Mary blessed.
    Blessed to be a mother, blessed to have been chosen who Jesus was born through.
    But not blessed to be on a level of a god or goddess, nor blessed enough to worship her or hold her higher than Jesus.
    Not blessed enough to think/believe that she is omnipresent and can hear my prayers 24/7 anywhere on earth – she is/was human after all.
    —————–
    What about the Hail Mary prayer?
    – Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee…
    Ummm…if the Lord “is with thee” why not just ask Jesus directly and skip the middleman, err, middlewoman? Jesus never said He was too busy in the Bible to ever hear my prayer, if anything He wants us to pray to HIM or God directly.
    – John 10:30.
    “I and the Father are one.”
    – John 14:6
    “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
    – John 14:13
    And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
    ———-
    “Holy Mary,Mother of God,pray for us sinners now,
    and at the hour of death.”
    – Wait…why not just receive Jesus’ prayers that He is already doing for you, Mary might be too busy to ask…
    -Hebrews 7:25.
    “He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through him, because he always lives to make intercession for them”.
    – Isiah 53:12
    “Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many,and made intercession for the transgressors.”
    – Well can’t we pray or use any other name to reach God?
    – Acts 4:12
    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
    – John 14:6
    “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
    God’s plan of salvation:
    http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=276

  44. William: “The claim that there is more abuse perpetrated by priests than by elementary school teachers is false.”
    …and based on what facts do you make this kind of statement with?

  45. Lookout, in the eyes of God, the Pope is just another guy. So, Joanne “putting herself ABOVE the Pope” is not quite correct…I suspect that she is putting herself on par with the Pope.
    For those who have accepted Christ as saviour, we are all children of God. God makes no distinction in terms of class or level…there is no “private” or “sergeant” or “general” or “vice-admiral”…we are all his children. I would turn around your statement to be…how can the Pope think to put himself above others? Where is the Scriptural reference that does this? I contend it is just the RC “tradition” that does this.
    We are all children and we are all sinners…we are all imperfect. The Pope is no more or no less beloved of God than any of God’s other children (presuming that the Pope is, in fact, “a child of God”). Remember, not all who knock will enter…since the RC faith does not follow the entire tenets of the Scriptures, RC’s may not TRULY be saved…but this is taking the discussion too far for my little brain.

  46. lookout,
    you hit on the whole RC/protestant schism. Non-RC, no arbitar is required and some more strident ones would say not even allowed.
    It would be about direct relationships etc etc.
    So under that framework Joanne and the Pope are equal. All kinds of political and sociological stuff flows out of this which we wont go anywhere near today. Not evaluating just stating.
    As for the abuse, I dont know if that has anything to do with marriage but it has everything to do with the culture of the organization….dont misread that to say that the place is riven with it…..just saying the culture of cover up and tolerance is one that allows that abuse to take place. Whether allowing marriage would lead to an influx of a different type of people and therefore change the culture of the priesthood is an intereting and legitimate question. May or may not…it certainly wouldnt eliminate abuse though.
    The original intent of the post was to say that the Media misread the Pope’s statement and went for the convenient headline.
    I agree they simplified the message and boiled out much of its complexity and nuance. However, I dont know if they are that far off the mark. If that is the case then this Pope seems to have a habit if unintentionally syaing things he really didnt mean….I point to the Islam remark. Whatever you thought of it the remark it seemed to indicate something, and begged for clarification. In my opinion he unfortunately apologized, which shut down a really important point that I thought he made.
    So either the current writings are meant or this guy has a Tin Ear and says things in awkward ways and we will see it again. Just means he should probably hire Shaidle as his editor :-> because we know she has no trouble with unequivical points.
    I dont think this story has been stretched too far, although stretched it has been.

  47. Pope Benedict XVI definitely does not have a tin ear. What might be tin, not gold or silver, are the ears of the members of the MSM–not to mention, hearts of stone not of flesh.
    As Scripture so tellingly states, “Those who have ears to hear, let them hear.”
    Many choose not to, especially when it comes to religion and Roman Catholicism, in particular: the faith that many love to hate.
    I speak as a convert, one who harboured all of the same concerns, misunderstandings, ignorance, and grudges against the RC Church and its doctrines before I became a Catholic…
    It is rather amazing that the RC Church has been able to withstand such steady criticism for centuries and yet seems to go from strength to strength, despite its many weaknesses, failings, and sins. It seems clear to me that there is something more at work here than mere human endeavour: God’s grace and power.

  48. Just for the record:
    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
    n number 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium ‘subsistence’ means this perduring, historical continuity and the permanence of all the elements instituted by Christ in the Catholic Church[8], in which the Church of Christ is concretely found on this earth.
    It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them. Nevertheless, the word “subsists” can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe… in the “one” Church); and this “one” Church subsists in the Catholic Church.

  49. Sorry Ted but:
    “According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.[iv] According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.[v] Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.[vi] Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.[vii] ”
    ***
    “It was reported in 1991 that 17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. Fully 13.5 percent said they had sexual intercourse with their teacher.[xxx]
    “In New York City alone, at least one child is sexually abused by a school employee every day. One study concluded that more than 60 percent of employees accused of sexual abuse in the New York City schools were transferred to desk jobs at district offices located inside the schools. Most of these teachers are tenured and 40 percent of those transferred are repeat offenders. They call it “passing the garbage” in the schools. One reason why this exists is due to efforts by the United Federation of Teachers to protect teachers at the expense of children.[xxxi] Another is the fact that teachers accused of sexual misconduct cannot be fired under New York State law.[xxxii] ”
    http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

  50. “It is rather amazing that the RC Church has been able to withstand such steady criticism for centuries”
    It’s called fear mongering and inquisitions.
    I could say the same for any religion, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, etc.
    But I am not here to bash the RC church, or Catholics, or Roman Catholics. I just have an issue when one says “I’m it”.
    And I’m not it either, but I know Someone who is.
    😉
    I started asking questions and only got “it is tradition” and “i wouldn’t understand, God is so big” type answers…guess like Kathy said, I’m slow on the uptake.
    Good thing God didn’t care, the King James Version was written in lower English for the masses, as in common folk, not catholic mass.
    Verses like John 3:3, like John 14:6, Acts 4:12 and Isiah 53:12 set me free.
    Hey, if you have received Jesus as your personal saviour, believe He has risen from the dead and is returning soon, and know that you know you have been forgiven of your sins by asking, and if you die tonight you will be with Jesus in paradise and not a half way station, then I don’t care what brand name you go by.
    In case anyone wants more on this:
    http://www.tomax7.com/thoughts/salvation.htm
    Remember Jesus loves you! He wants to know you better. He is in the fixing business of those who are lonely; have a broken heart; or are at the end of their ropes.

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