My children go through “Bad-Guy-With-Gun” drills at their school … this is a school full of age 14 to 19 boys and girls in the prime of their lives … and more than 30% or these are fit, strong, and athletic kids … and smart to boot. Now consider the drill:
* Close door to classroom
* Stay quiet
* Hide under or behind desk
* Stay away from windows and doors
Mark Steyn – “… at Yale, the dean of student affairs, Betty Trachtenberg, reacted to the Virginia Tech murders by taking decisive action: She banned all stage weapons from plays performed on campus. After protests from the drama department, she modified her decisive action to “permit the use of obviously fake weapons” such as plastic swords.”
More here – “Mom, I’ve run the Columbine scenario a million times in my head.”
Considering the gazillions of dollars that have toilet papered gun control in Canada, how’bout investing a few bucks into making our student’s chairs bullet proof. That way the students still get to hide behind their chairs while they rush the crazed whacko that enters their classroom looking for a few more privileged souls to take.
How many shots would a frothy mouthed psychopath get off before getting impaled with a couple of dozen steel chair legs? three? two? one? And probably not in critical parts of the anatomy.
Just a thought – arm our kids through their seats.
When I was a kid back in the dear dead fifties, we used to watch films in class that showed us how to “Duck and Cover” in case of a nuclear attack. We laugh at them now, just like these kids will laugh at these drills when they grow up.
Most kids today are pretty level headed, it’s their parents who are paranoid and need help.
Don’t ever expect common sense to come from public-funded (or any other) institution dealing with the public anymore. The fear of lawsuits will drive them to do the silliest things…no more playing tag, no boisterous play, no sports, no anything that could possibly result in an injury and the resultant lawsuit.
Until we can take Shakespeare’s advice and hang all the lawyers, we are doomed to more of the same lunacy.
Imagine the lawsuits that would result if a teacher were expected or required to protect the students or if the students were expected to defend themselves and one of them were injured.
I’m afraid we’re past the point of no return.
Forget about the “Bad-Guy-With-Gun” drills, all kids should be wearing bullet proof vests whenever in a classroom…no, actually at all times. They should be issued Glock 22’s and a couple mags of hollow point ammunition, at least until they are old enough to handle something like a .475 Wildey Magnum. Schools should be ringed with Claymores, which they can use if there is advanced knowledge of an assault…the only way to protect our kids and ourselves is to outgun the madmen.
We give birth to them, we fuss over their proper development, we give them everything we have to give to defend themselves and prepare them for the harsh realities of the real and violent world….but we CAN’t protect them from official stupidity and cowardice which leaves them prey for creatures like Cho.
One of the first things professional soldiers are trained in is the counter-ambush drill. The key to the counter-ambush drill is speed, fury, and aggression. It’s not foolproof but it is the only chance you’ve got. It consists of simply charging and attacking the position whence commeth the ambush, and not stopping until you’ve shot, bayonetted, bludgeoned or bitten to death anyone or anything who ain’t on your side. The ambusher wants you to freeze. He’s ambushed you where you are because it is his perfect kill zone and he would love nothing more than for you to stay frozen right there because that is exactly where he has all the advantages. Psychologically, he’s expecting a victim response. He expects passivity and timidity in his victims. It’s what he has psychologically rehearsed over and over again. When the first shot occaisions a horde of humanity rushing for his throat screaming like banshees aiming to pummel, bite, kick and claw him to death he’s suddenly the one frozen in shock; he’s the one assuming a defensive posture; he’s the one running for cover, and it’s next to impossible to shoot accurately on the run, especially to your rear. Cover from view, cover from fire and basic counter-ambush drills — that’s what the kids should be taught.
I was listening, partly, to CBC’s National Wind-up, or whatever the Rex Murphy Sunday 2 hour show is called.
The real story, a CBCer told us, was all about gun control, not the rantings of a psyco.
For once, I agreed with a CBCer. You see, the university had gun control. No one, and I mean No one, including those legally allowed to, was allowed to carry guns on campus. Of course, the crazed killer didn’t give a damn.
The hiding in a room drill might sound crazy but if kids panic and run they create a target rich environment for the killer. The police will be on the scene at a Canadian High School in an average of minutes with guns drawn and everyone in the hall is a suspect. Should we do war gaming as part of the curriculum? I am a gun owner but having concelaed guns in the school isn’t a respones I would like to see.
Gregor, you have a point. As someone who graduated from high school and moved on to the university system within the last few years, I have to say the hiding in the room probably is the best option considering most schools are close to police stations and the cops will be there within a few minutes. Running around like nuts probably will not solve the problem and half the staff at these institutions should not be trusted with guns anyway.
*
I have to laugh at these mindless leftbots.
They’ll let their pre-teen daughters overdose on… or worse yet, emulate…
pantyless, substance abusing sybarite Britney Spears… but are convinced
the mere depiction of a firearm will instantly transform their sons into
some doppleganger Charlie Manson.
*
Gregor and Ryan, permit me if you will to point out a couple of flaws in your theory. First if the kids are hiding in the classroom they have become victims for the shooter, there is no classroom in Canada that can keep out an armed madman. Secondly if you look at the videos from the VT massacre the police were there more quickly than they would have been at most schools in Canada and while the shooting was going on they were approaching the scene behind cover. Two, three, or five minutes to get to the scene and another two, three, or five to appraise the situation and the end result is a large number of both injured and a larger number of fatalities. Understand the police cannot protect you unless they are on site, all they can do is clean up the mess when they arrive.
If and when some government has the guts to pass a law banning lawsuits for defending yourself or others and ban all rights groups, then maybe our kids will be safe. There should be a class action suit, filed against all human rights people and groups, the aclu, politicians at all levels and all school boards for the damage they have done to our society. We could start with a lawsuit against the liberals for the charter of rights.
Problem with gun control is that the cops and the system are supposed to protect everyone… well it failed at VT.
Sorry, Kate, but I’m breaking in here to encourage readers to weigh in on a Harper vs. Suzuki poll at Telus, posted at Plattytalk on the Blogging Tories list.
This is the link to the Telus poll:
http://www.bloggingtories.ca/btFrameset.php?URL=http://plattytalk.blogspot.com/2007/04/harper-vs-suzuki-poll.html&title=Harper vs Suzuki poll
Right now, they’re neck in neck, with responders giving Suzuki a slight edge: 49% of Harper’s view of the environment to Suzuki’s 51%.
Sorry, Kate, but I’m breaking in here to encourage readers to weigh in on a Harper vs. Suzuki poll at Telus, posted at Plattytalk on the Blogging Tories list. I got caught in the filter just now, so would encourage readers to check out Plattytalk at Blogging Tories or on his/her own Blog.
Right now, they’re neck in neck, with responders giving Suzuki a slight edge: 49% for Harper’s view of the environment to Suzuki’s 51%.
we used to do the same drill in the 50’s but added don’t look at it and if you can, hide in a ditch. It was called the A Bomb drill
‘Funny, even though I grew up in the fifties, I never did a dive-under-your-desk drill or into a ditch routine.
These are archetypical images from the fifties which I was never encouraged to do. Big-city school. Was our principal out to lunch or on-the-Ball (that was his name. Honest.)?
Been around … growing up in Calgary we had air raid sirens and they would sound the alarm and under the desk we would go. One was in a park by the school … later in life they would sound a Flames victory!! Been quiet ever since.
They still hold FIRE DRILLS at our schools and we dont have metal tectors and a lot of people have guns around here They dont need gunman drills they ned to get rid of all those crinimals from mexico
I know it’s fashionable to distrust the police but the lads in my town would be tearing through the school looking for bad guys. They live for this stuff, all gray removed and only black and white remaining.
I agree though that the best training for students is situational..flexibility. Not many are trained to teach this however.
Hmmmm.
4 helpful hints on making the predator’s job easier? Brilliant.
Children, listen to your instincts, not your parents. Fight OR Flight. 2 options, instinctually hard wired to make your enemy’s job HARDER. Unfortunately kids, a clucking chicken or a cornered badger running on instinct is smarter than your average liberal parent.
Changing realities create changing responses. In the old days when someone hi-jacked a jet it was usually to go to Cuba or to get some political prisoners released. Your best bet to survive was to cooperate. After 9/11 passengers realized cooperating with the hi-jackers meant sure death. The would be shoe-bomber was tackled by a swarm of passengers who had adjusted to the new realities.
Students and teachers are going to have realize that if someone is shooting in their schools they had better rush him on mass or they will all die. If a few teachers are allowed to be armed this would also make a difference.
Serious question: Is it legal for civilians to purchase and wear a bullet proof vest in Canada?
If not, why not?
“Until we can take Shakespeare’s advice and hang all the lawyers”
God, I’m sick of this misused cliche. This is a line from a play in which the equivalent of modern terrorists are plotting to overthrow the government. They have to get rid of the laws, and all the people that know them. And so they want to get rid of lawyers.Shakespeare was not advocating it, it was a character in a play. Is this over your head? Do your understnd it yet?
Whenever I hear this i wonder if the dolt who quoted it has read the play, or any other play, for that matter.
EVEN THE SWISS HAVE THE GUN PROBLEM. MOUNTAIN-SEPARATED COMMUNITIES NEED IMMEDIATE SELF-DEFENSE, BUT SOCIALISTS WANT TO DISARM THEM.
GENEVA, April 22 (Xinhua) — Under Swiss law all able-bodied men are issued with a rifle and 50 rounds of ammunition which they can keep after completing their compulsory military service.
Switzerland’s Social Democrats, Green Party, and pacifist groups want to keep army firearms out of the home. The Swiss House of Representative threw out a plan to tighten the gun law.
How about just hanging all the lawyers because they are a parasitic lower life-form?
The ‘Law’ is an ass- written by lawyers, and of primary benefit to lawyers!
ASHLAND, Ore. — A candidate for Southern Oregon University student body president has admitted she was lying when she claimed she had a cousin who was killed in the Virginia Tech shootings.
Brandi Freeman spoke at a candlelight vigil held by students at the university campus in Ashland Thursday night.
With tears streaming down her face, she had claimed she had lost her cousin in the shootings that left 33 dead at Virginia Tech.
By Friday, Freeman admitted to making up the story to appeal to voters for the student body election next week. She also said she suffers from bipolar disorder.
Freeman is a dean’s list student and a member of the student senate. But she said she’ll likely drop out of the student body elections because of her actions.
http://www.kptv.com/news/12712260/detail.html
what 30% are fit ,are the other 70% enormous oinks?
one only has to be fitter than the slowest kid.
think David in Stand By Me.
I’m altogether with the fight vs flight types. (Litigation is the main concern, though, that’s for sure.)
However, when there’s a lockdown in a school, it includes LOCKED classrooms.
Of course, we can’t deal with what one should do if the lock gets blasted off: we don’t want to actually SCARE anyone, do we?
(We recently had to remind the kids about street proofing rules because a sexual predator psycho had escaped while out on a recreational jaunt from the institution–his Charter rights, no doubt. We were not to actually give the kids a description of the criminal–that might scare them. We were to warn them in code. As concrete learning is young kids’ optimum mode of learning, this PC crap is even against best practice pedagogy. But, hey, when did that ever inform the educational powers that be? Good Lord, deliver us.)
It’s rare that I disagree with Steyn on anything, but in this case I think the logic in his article is flawed.
Steyn would be the first to argue, and correctly, that the world is at risk because there exists the possibility that some nutty Muslim living in the dark ages could get his hands on a large-scale bomb.
One couldn’t sensibly argue that the correct way to neutralize that threat would be to have bombs ourselves (although there are plenty of other good reasons for countries to have bombs).
And the same applies to guns as well. This notion that if we all had guns events like the Virginia Tech shootings would be less likely to occur is a bit of a fantasy.
And in any case, kids having to carry guns to university is a clear sign that the world has gone to hell. It’s an admission that the creeps in society have won.
“Serious question: Is it legal for civilians to purchase and wear a bullet proof vest in Canada?
If not, why not?”
Yes, it is. But if you wear it in public, you can be guaranteed to be on the receiving end of unwanted attention by the police, because a liberal will call them, because anyone that wants one, is up to no good. “No one needs a bullet-proof vest” “Only the police and the military should have bullet-proof vests”
BTW, they are somewhat over-rated, and with ceramic plates needed to be truly effective, heavy and cumbersome. Level III vests will stop 9mm, mostly. None of them will stop a rifle round (the plated ones will slow or stop some small caliber rifles at a distance).
All you need in a classroom are some tiny little 4.5 inch 22 short range pop guns to stop an idiot like cho the second he barges into the second classroom.Total dead 10 instead of 32.This math works me. Why cant everyone figure this out.Its not rocket science. These guns are so small no one ever has 2 know you have it until its really needed. Thats the way 99.999% of law abiding citizens treat concealed weapons!
TJ wrote:
“And the same applies to guns as well. This notion that if we all had guns events like the Virginia Tech shootings would be less likely to occur is a bit of a fantasy.”
Know its not, and to think so, is to not understand the use and application of being armed, nor the concept of concealed carry. It doesn’t take everybody to be armed, only some. In the CCW environment, not everybody choses to carry a gun, nor do they need to. At last count, more than 40 US states have enacted shall-issue CCW permits since 9/11. The experience, universally, is a reduction in confrontational crime (as much as 25%), ccw firearms have a lower incidence of involvement in crime (ie used in a crime) than the general population, and the permit holders have a lower than average rate brushes with the law. If as few as 6 of the 33 students killed had been active carriers, there would have been fewer deaths. All it would have taken is one bullet, one significant injury to the shooter to compromise his ability to carry on – that would have been the break in the chain of events.
“And in any case, kids having to carry guns to university is a clear sign that the world has gone to hell. It’s an admission that the creeps in society have won.”
Surprise – maybe you missed the news – the creeps are winning. 33 students died last Monday. The world hasn’t gone to hell, its only returning to whast is normal for humans, after a post-war period of relative calm. In man’s entire history self-defence as always been a necessary component of survival. Nothing has changed, except we seemed to have raised a generation of people who continue to deny that its necessary, to their everlasting shame for condemning the naive to an early demise.
Chill, Slick. I don’t give a damn where or who wisdom comes from…it is still wisdom. Hang all the lawyers…and pee on the people who read plays, I would add for you, Slick. 😉
The quote is a quick illustrative summary of a bigger argument. Don’t get so snooty.
And if you want fantasy, this is fantastic:
“”(In the) presence of gunman, I’m not sure that there is much we can do,” said Robert Steiner, assistant Vice-President for Strategic Communications at the University of Toronto. Steiner is one of the officials in charge of the campus communication strategy in the event of a crisis, which includes the UTM campus.”
It is odd how those intent on shooting others never go to shooting ranges or gun clubs to kill people.
Ass-hats can’t figure out why.
You know in WWI the Brits had a wee problem with U boats sinking merchant shipping.
The cheapest way for subs of the time to to this was surface (Where they spent most of the time anyway – this WWI tech) and man the deck gun on the sub and basically sink the vessel with gun fire.
This being more innocent times, they often gave the merchant crew time to abandon ship.
As you might imagine, this annoyed the Brits because the subs tended to stay hidden whenever the Royal Navy was around.
Solution: “Q ships”. Innocent looking merchants that had deck guns and heavy machine guns hidden from sight. There weren’t many, but the German subs hated them.
There you’d be, hunting merchants and suddenly you are under fire from a more stable and higher platform. Messes up your day, and even if you survive the counter attack, you have to go back and use an expensive torpedo (or more) while the “victim” calls in every local RN sub hunter on the radio.
It made hunting merchant shipping less cost effective and much more stressful..
Exactly the same analogy to concealed carry works: no not every “innocent looking” target is armed to the teeth and waiting for you to reveal your bad intentions, but it sure as heck makes life for predators a lot higher risk proposition.
Pity, that.
Antenor thinks the cops will be there in 3-5 minutes if a shooting erupts at a school.
I have to ask, did you not read any of the details of the VT massacre? The first two victims were shot around 7:15 am, and Cho had time to go to g-d post office before he went to campus and finished his rampage. And let’s not forget what happened when that psycho Lepine went nuts in Montreal; the cops arrived, and then stood around outside for nearly an hour.
I have to wonder what’s more important – the ability to detect a fake sword in a play or the ability to detect a real gun shot in real life.
Speaking of Columbine- one of the Denver SWAT team, (who had fired his submachine gun uphill towards the students who were fleeing the carnage inside, later claimed that he was “relieved to learn that ballistics tests on the dead students, proved that none had been shot by police bullets.”
(Except- those ballistics tests had not yet been done……………..)
Skip: “…ceramic plates needed to be truly effective…”
Can that thought be turned into a chair seat that’s light enough to be used as a shield?
Skip,
I’m not convinced that guns solve everything. They wouldn’t have stopped Timothy McVeigh. They wouldn’t have stopped Theodore Kaczynski (no quantity of guns would have helped Professor David Gelernter for example, who was killed by one of Kaczynski’s bombs) etc.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against guns per se.
But I am against the idea that my teenage daughter has to carry a concealed weapon when she’s at university, of all places, in order to feel safe.
If we cannot make our places of learning safe without having to resort to students carrying weapons, then as I stated, we have lost to the creeps.
It’s one thing to have a gun to protect your home from intruders. It’s another thing altogether when guns are required in order to feel safe at university.
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“Serious question: Is it legal for civilians to purchase
and wear a bullet proof vest in Canada?”
Outside of security… you’re gonna raise some eyebrows
and for sure your name will be passed to the local police
department… or these days, CSIS… although I also know
some paramedics in Toronto who bought vests for work.
as skip says, with rifle rounds you’re s.o.l. anyway.
i’ve seen .223 remington zip through mild steel plate and
we’re not even talking serious big-game rifles yet.
you even enquire about ceramic armour without a badge,
my guess is they’ll call a swat team.
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TJ: “I’m not convinced that guns solve everything. ”
I have to agree with you somewhat. But I don’t think we are talking about all students carrying; just selected people in a school or campus. That is what has worked in such past examples as Israeli schools or in Orlando in the 60’s. What would be wrong with a few school/campus plain clothes armed security guards?
The campus of UBC has a special detachment of RCMP as well as a security police force.
You can’t blame people for suggesting solutions that may seem a bit over the top but it beats the hell out of doing nothing. Rather than providing the security for a school or campus that a casino, shopping mall or armored car would have, the mandarins of liberaldom impose zealous fantasy on their charges.
Any suggestion of an armed presence on a campus or school would take it off the to do list of any psychopath.
ctv had an article about the school shootings in scotland about 11 years ago. hand guns were banned in britan. there has not been a shooting in a school since. just a one sentence mention that gun crime has increased in britan since the ban. no guns, more gun crime, fasinating.
Forget worrying about lawsuits. Remember the old saying….”It’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6″. You just do what ya gotta do.
jmorrison wrote:
“ctv had an article about the school shootings in scotland about 11 years ago. hand guns were banned in britan. there has not been a shooting in a school since. just a one sentence mention that gun crime has increased in britan since the ban. no guns, more gun crime, fasinating.”
You find that fascinating? Why? Its not correlated. There are plenty of handguns in Britain, and the criminal use of handguns is up. Mass murders are an aberration, not directly related to specific tools. Britain didn’t have a regularly occurring string of school shootings before handguns were banned. And again, if someone at the school had been armed, that event might not have advanced either. Lefties need to get away from this persistent myth that banning or imposing restrictions actually means much to anybody. People still speed, drink, pay to fornicate, beat on one another, shoot drugs and Liberals still steal.
JMorrison: There was never a school shooting before the Dunblane incident either ( When handguns were prevalent in civilian hands) Dunblane was an excuse to ban handguns…and the UK found this utopian stupidity to be an errant civil justice orthodoxy…..post Ban escalation in gun crime was partially a result of disarming citizens but primarily a result of disempowering them with anti-self defense laws which prosecuted an armed citizen for fending off criminal attack.
Disempowering the citizen from an armed defense more so than banning guns created an opportunistic atmosphere for criminals who engaged in violent confrontational crimes ( car jacking, mugging, hot burglaries, kidnapping, rape, robbery) all these crime rose after the UK gun bans by as much as 80%…according to an FBI report I read some areas of England had higher per-capata gun crime rates than hot spots in the US.
Recently the UK government had to peel back some of their socially destructive pacification of the citizen and passed a home defense act allowing home owners to defend themselves with a firearm in their own home,….but as always this was not the result of any civil/social empathy ruling elites had with the populace they let disarmed and prey to criminals…it was largely because the ruling class was having their homes burglarized and by armed goons…but at least it’s an admission that the government which disempowers a citizen from armed self defense is an immoral government.
“Switzerland’s Social Democrats, Green Party, and pacifist groups want to keep army firearms out of the home. The Swiss House of Representative threw out a plan to tighten the gun law”
Even the world’s safest and well armed nation is not immune to utopian malevolence.
In a nation (Switzerland) awash in civilian firearms ownership where each citizen is trained in firearms proficiency and has served in the militia, has an arm in the home or in the car, and who, by law , has the same powers as police at armed intervention in a crime…why…just why do you suppose there have NEVER been any school shootings…or terrorist acts in public places in this nation?
Mark Steyn: “To promote vulnerability as a moral virtue is not merely foolish. Like the new Yale props department policy, it signals to everyone that you’re not in the real world.”
Amen! And one could complete this thought by stating that anyone so detached from the real worls should not be charged with making rules for the rest id us or the responsibility of protecting our children.
To me there are 2 primary culprets who were complicit in Cho’s mad killing spree:
1) The dystopian mindset that believes disarming victims makes them safer.
2) The court system which declared Cho to be mentally ill and a danger to society, did nothing to ensure he did not have lawful access to a gun.