One generally gets the sense that mental giants such as this emerge from their calculations as theoretical members of the “survivor” percentage.
[T]here was a gravely disturbing side to that otherwise scientifically significant meeting, for I watched in amazement as a few hundred members of the Texas Academy of Science rose to their feet and gave a standing ovation to a speech that enthusiastically advocated the elimination of 90 percent of Earth’s population by airborne Ebola. The speech was given by Dr. Eric R. Pianka (Fig. 1), the University of Texas evolutionary ecologist and lizard expert who the Academy named the 2006 Distinguished Texas Scientist.
Something curious occurred a minute before Pianka began speaking. An official of the Academy approached a video camera operator at the front of the auditorium and engaged him in animated conversation. The camera operator did not look pleased as he pointed the lens of the big camera to the ceiling and slowly walked away.
This curious incident came to mind a few minutes later when Professor Pianka began his speech by explaining that the general public is not yet ready to hear what he was about to tell us. Because of many years of experience as a writer and editor, Pianka’s strange introduction and the TV camera incident raised a red flag in my mind. Suddenly I forgot that I was a member of the Texas Academy of Science and chairman of its Environmental Science Section. Instead, I grabbed a notepad so I could take on the role of science reporter.
Otherwise, the question bears asking – what’s holding you back, Dr. Pianka? Sure, it’s a slower process than you’re advocating, but you know – the journey to homo sapiens planetary purity begins with that first step in front of a bus.
Time to lead by example, dear doctor.
Update – Pianka responds after a fashion.
Udate – April 5 – Pianka’s Biology 304 course evaluations – scroll down to this “dissenting” opinion from 2004;
Though I agree that convervation biology is of utmost importance to the world, I do not think that preaching that 90% of the human population should die of ebola is the most effective means of encouraging conservation awareness. I found Pianka to be knowledgable, but spent too much time focusing on his specific research and personal views.
Via Ed Minchau who has lots more.
Ted,
All numbers I’ve seen show that Canada and most of the developed world are in population decline, not expansion, due to below-replacement birth rates. The US I think may be an exception in that they are close to the 2.1 replacement rate, but still are slightly below. With the UNFPA working hard to bring sub-replacement birth rates to the developing world, I fail to see how population growth is an issue.
Indications I’ve seen point towards problems with aging populations and our inability to cope with the imbalance we’ve created. It would seem we are more likely to experience problems related to a population implosion, not a population explosion.
Another point about biologists: many spend a lot of time in the field, so that their survival skills are much more developed than those of the typical office worker. For that reason, if 90% of us were to perish in some environmental catastrophe, I would expect biologists to be disproportionalely numerous among the survivors.
maybe its time for the NDP to go back to their roots and re-adopt one of their founding party policies . . Eugenics.
Its their way to pre-solve the population “problem”
Castro seems to think it works. . . maybe the ghost of Tommy Douglas will finally find peace.
Hey Denis, thanks for trying to discuss the issue. You seem a bit unique around here today.
I don’t think you can simply off-set population decline in a few western countries with the population growth in non-western countries. We are too much of a minority. Plus, the issue isn’t just population numbers but available resources.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a big “over-population problem” guy, but I do think resources, the distribution of resources and the spread (not just the number but the physical displacement of nature for human habitat) are definitely concerns to keep an eye on. Discussing them is important. I don’t believe we are imminiently (i.e. 50 years) facing monumental natural catastrophe (I’ll admit it, we progressives tend to find monumental natural catastrophes pretty regularly and almost as often as conservatives find signs of the imminent apocalypse and return of the Son of God!), but I also don’t think we can just ignore it and trust that someone somewhere sometime will come up with a magic plan.
Ted
Cerberus
“Without presenting any data to justify this number, he asserted that the only feasible SOLUTION to saving the Earth is to reduce the population to 10 percent of the present number. . . .
“His favorite candidate for eliminating 90 percent of the world’s population is airborne Ebola (Ebola Reston), because it is both highly lethal and it kills in days, instead of years. . . . .”
Ted, sounds like releasing airborne ebola as a solution to the problem is culling to me.
I’ve read the whole article. If you read the end, even Mims unintentionally concedes that part was a minor part of the talk which leads me to believe he is deliberately misconstruing it and that it was said in the vein of “if we don’t do anything, the only way we could survive is if billions die” line of thinking. As I said above: In reading Forrest Mims (sorry,
Forrest M. Mims “the IIId”) account, Mims seems to be stretching the truth and doing a heck of a lot of editorializing. When you strip away the opinionizing, it seems more that Pianka is giving dire warning of what he believes (and most do not) to be a monumental problem in the world; it does not seem like he is actually advocating the killing of billions. The same old scaremongering to produce change we’ve seen from left and right, but not advocating of genocide.
As I also said above: Agree or disagree on the issue of over-population being a problem, and whether Pianka and other scientists are nuts for supporting the idea, but clearly Mims disagrees with over-population as an issue and, instead of debating or even attacking the message, he heaps on the hyperbolic misconstruing and attacking of the messenger.
The problem is that the underlying issue of scarce resources gets lost in the polarized and politicized positioning of the Piankas and Mims of the scientific, political and religious worlds.
Ted
Cerberus
The good Dr. is like all the rest of the anti-development crowd. They’ve gotten their piece of the action and now wish to deny others, for fear that it will impinge on their own quality of life. We’ve had many hundreds of people move to our beautiful city on Vancouver Island and as often as not, they are the very ones who whine and complain about others while purporting to ‘fight for the quality of life’ they recently bought into. Hypocrites.
I’d be interested too, in how many of those who vigourously applauded the Professor, object to the culling of 5% of the seal herd this year. Oops, almost forgot. It’s ok to cull people, but not cute, fluffy, innocent animals.
Ted – google the cull subject…and recognize the valid use of hyperbole in argument. This is not a disgusting straw man argument. It is wingnuts like Pianka that make the moral equivalence (“We’re no better than bacteria.”), so in context cull is appropriate. It is logically consistent to assert that such people would not weep over the sudden and painful death of 90% of the human population. See, eg. http://mindprod.com/environment/population.html
…scroll down to “We should foment wars to help kill off the young men.
We should not intervene when crazed dictators such as Hitler, Idi Amin and Pol Pot decimate their populations. ”
Most such people advocate a “voluntary cull” – check out Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT) http://www.vhemt.org/…they lack the courage of their convictions.
The issues of over-population (sic) and resource use are the straw men in the discussion. I note that everyone has fallen for it. Sigh: I predict an upsurge in NDP votes…brain rot has hit sda commentators…what must it be like elsewhere?
Hi Ted,
I don’t know that it is accurate to say a “few western countries” are experiencing decline. It is happening in: North America, Eastern & Western Europe, most of East Asia, Australia and New Zealand – actually according to the UNFPA there are already 43 developed countries with below replacement fertility rates, 15 with rates below 1.3. It is true the developing world is still having kids above the replacement rate, but the UNFPA expects the average rate to decline to 1.92 by the middle of this century. It also says there are already 23 developing countries that have reached below-replacement birth rates.
If over-population ever were a real danger (and I don’t think we were ever in harms way), it would seem that the problem is well in hand.
However, for all the attention that over-population seems to get, I really believe that we will actually suffer from the population aging and population decline that is starting to happen now. I guess time will tell.
Education, and innovation is the key to over population, and resource depletion. Western countries with a high standard of education have a lower birth rate. The education of people will lead to innovation, that will lead to better resource management. The Lizard Doc thinks he is a god. He thinks he, or someone has the right to cull 90% of the human population. If we don�t manage our world in a responsible way, it will take care of us. It is up to the earth, mother nature, God etc. to decide our fate. Not some guy. The earth will be here long after humans are gone. The earth will be just fine. It is arrogant to believe otherwise.
One parting shot before the day’s end:
What do you suppose Pianka’s views on capital punishment are?
Any guesses?
I’m going to have to chime in with Ted here.
The man never said what’s attributed to him. Over- or under-population, whatever – the point is, the “reporter” is lying about what was said.
I think Canada needs MORE, not less, people. But while I don’t believe we’re over-populated, I still recognize the need for truth in reporting. And the above is total horseshit, and shouldn’t be defended.
‘Tis being reported as an opinion the good prof (sic) holds, and one that he does, in some measure, advocate. See
http://www.seguingazette.com/
I read the post above, wrong again Ted & Jason D.
Ted –
Even some of Piankas students are backing up Forest Mims’ statements.
I know you don’t want to believe it, but there appears to be plenty of evidence that Piankas is advocating a 90% population cull, and that he had suggested ebola as the tool.
here are two students’ statements:
——————————————
I don’t root for ebola, but maybe a ban on having more than one child. I agree . . . too many people ruining this planet.
——————————————
Though I agree that convervation biology is of utmost importance to the world, I do not think that preaching that 90% of the human population should die of ebola is the most effective means of encouraging conservation awareness. I found Pianka to be knowledgable, but spent too much time focusing on his specific research and personal views.
——————————————
You can find them here http://www.zo.utexas.edu/courses/bio357/357evaluations.html
Thumbs down on Dr. Eric R. Pianka’s views about culling the human population of Planet Earth. Bad politics and bad theology–not to mention inhumane and evil.
By the looks of it, there will be no need for a “human solution” (sic) and (sick) by a third party like Dr. Pianka and his ghoulish cohorts: We’re well on our way to global extinction on our own.
In Andrew Nikiforuk’s book “The Fourth Horseman: A Short History of Plagues, Scourges and Emerging Viruses,” (Penguin, 1992, 1996), he says, “Humankind has now arrived at a spooky crossroads. Death from disease, death on an ever greater scale, is probably inevitable. Our mirage of sustainable health has evaporated in the post-antibiotic era. Neither our bodies nor our communities are particularly well. Our lands ooze suppurating ulcers; our waters smell of foul things. God and Creation have been defiled and humiliated. Death’s handmaiden, disease, couldn’t have hoped for a more inviting terrain than this unbalanced and wounded world. … The next great plague will not wipe the slate clean but may very well reduce our arrogant numbers to a humble remnant. Once summoned, the Fourth Horseman cannot and will not rest.”
And I looked, and behold, a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
— Revelation 6:8
Here follows part of a news item that I just read today:
Three Killed in Istanbul Bus Attack
02 April, 2006
By BENJAMIN HARVEY
ISTANBUL, Turkey – A group of men stopped a passenger bus and tossed gasoline bombs at it, sending the vehicle careening into pedestrians and killing three in Turkey�s largest city on Sunday as pro-Kurdish riots continued to spread.
Sorry Kate: please delete my last comment if you can.
I posted by accident to the wrong thread.
Hey look, CERDIP/Wayne/others, New Kid on the Block (7:11PM) and Andrew Nikiforuk (who he quotes) are also advocating virus driven genocide. You can just read the glee and merry excitement at the prospect of the extinction of the human race.
“Death’s handmaiden, disease, couldn’t have hoped for a more inviting terrain than this unbalanced and wounded world. … The next great plague will not wipe the slate clean but may very well reduce our arrogant numbers to a humble remnant.”
See? He is “hoping” for this genocide, “inviting” it. They even call the plague “great”.
*********
You would think that after the last election from all the complaining by conservatives, you would all be a little more sensitive to quoting out of context.
G’night.
Ted
Cerberus
Interesting topic. Aside from the evil repercussions that can follow these lines of thinking, I think this academic really isn’t that learned. Chaos theory would surely effect the outcome of someone meddling with one of the most complex systems on earth…humanity. Like the effects of exploding breakouts of diseases after vaccine programs or the effects of devastating poverty after social economic experiments…complex systems have a way of boomeranging and producing the opposite intent. Hitler had a large roll in founding Israel by his attempts at genocide.
Let’s not take thing for granted through. Socialism may be an outcome of chaos theory as well. Attempts to completely erradicate it may spell the end of relatively free market economies. Perhaps we should tolerate it like we tolerate bugs and skunks 🙂
Interesting topic. Aside from the evil repercussions that can follow these lines of thinking, I think this academic really isn’t that learned. Chaos theory would surely effect the outcome of someone meddling with one of the most complex systems on earth…humanity. Like the effects of exploding breakouts of diseases after vaccine programs or the effects of devastating poverty after social economic experiments…complex systems have a way of boomeranging and producing the opposite intent. Hitler had a large roll in founding Israel by his attempts at genocide.
Let’s not take thing for granted through. Socialism may be an outcome of chaos theory as well. Attempts to completely erradicate it may spell the end of relatively free market economies. Perhaps we should tolerate it like we tolerate bugs and skunks 🙂
Ted –
No. You are wrong. He wants to cull the population of the earth by 90%.
Forest Mims is not the only person to have reported Piankas’ statements. COmplaints were filed as well:
“Joining the crusade, James Pitts, who recieved a Ph.D. in physics from UT-Austin, became the second to publicly chastise Pianka when he filed a complaint Saturday with the UT board of regents. He insists a state university is no place to disseminate such views.
He writes:
“Pianka’s message does not fall within the realm of his professional competence as a biologist, because it is a normative claim, not a descriptive one. Pianka is encouraged to use his ecological expertise to predict the likely consequences of certain technological and reproductive strategies, but to evaluate some as good, bad, or worthy of prevention by genocide is the realm of philosophy or political science, not science. His message falls no more within his professional competence than it would for a physicist to teach religion in class or a musician to encourage racism.”
(emphasis mine)
We were given plenty of context by Forest Mims’ account, and Piankas’ students statements, and that context is supported by all of the evidence, including the above complaint.
sorry – forgot the link for the complaint against Piankas:
http://story.seguingazette.com/drudge.html
The concept of “over-population” by definition would suggest the concept of “under-population” and “optimum-population” are also possible as well. The really interesting part comes when you try to define what these levels are.
If – as Peter D -11:37 AM claims � there are too many of us and we use too many resources. The Earth�s carrying capacity is being stretched and our pop. is continuing to sky-rocket�
Then – why are commodity prices continuing to fall. Why are world food prices not rising. etc.
Recommended reading: Fraser Institute – Exploding Population Myths – by Jim Peron http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publications/critical_issues/1995/exploding/
Robin Banks: well obviously if “too many people” is the problem, then the act of having children directly increases the severity of that problem, and therefore those who believe that 90% of humanity should die ought to start with their own contributions to the problem.
———————-
Nothing new since 1950? Dr. Norman Borlaug, probably the greatest hero the world has ever known, would likely disagree. He developed dwarf wheat, which saved the lives of a billion people. His technology trumped “overpopulation”.
———————-
Ted/Cerberus, I’ve seen you using the scare quotes around Forrest Mims’ name (i.e.: sorry,
Forrest M. Mims “the IIId”). Why? That is his name. It isn’t his fault that his father and grandfather share the same name and that he must add III after it to differentiate himself from them. And BTW, the name is well-known to anyone who has done any electronics in the last 30 years; Forrest Mims III wrote the most clear, concise electronics project books available. Every Radio Shack carries several books by Mims.
Ted: You wrote:
“Hey look, CERDIP/Wayne/others, New Kid on the Block (7:11PM) and Andrew Nikiforuk (who he quotes) are also advocating virus driven genocide. You can just read the glee and merry excitement at the prospect of the extinction of the human race.”
No way! Nikiforuk is NOT ADVOCATING virus-driven genocide. He’s saying in his book that our era is so badly out of joint–we’ve turned so many things upside down with promiscuous sex, misusing antibiotics, contaminating our environment, etc., etc., that NATURE ITSELF is soon going to redress a lot of this human-made carnage–and that, over the centuries, it always has. Nikiforuk documents the history of epidemics and plagues and demonstrates the indicators of pending epidemics and plagues. It’s not that he or anyone–least of all me–is gleeful or excited about these things happening (I have a husband and two beautiful daughters whose infection by a deadly virus would devastate me), but I don’t believe in head-in-the-sand stances when all the physical and social indicators point to our self-inflicted destruction. (Listen to some of Bob Dylan’s stuff…)
READ THE BOOK. It is fascinating and scary. What he’s saying is not that anyone should deliberately get rid of human beings by means of viruses but that human beings are going to be the authors of their own demise–because Nature will not be meddled with. When we start to “play God” Nature says, “OK, you guys. That’s enough. If you won’t fix things or turn them around, I will.” Or words to that effect. God knows, we don’t need a Pianka on top of what we’re already facing.
Unfortunatley, you completely misread my message and suggested that I had said THE OPPOSITE of what I actually said. 🙁
‘Brenna’ was one of those enthralled by Pianka’s ideas. She says so on her blog here:
http://brenmccnnll.blogspot.com/2006/03/dr.html
A partial quote: “He’s a radical thinker, that one! I mean, he’s basically advocating for the death of all but 10% of the current population! And at the risk of sounding just as radical, I think he’s right.”
Note the well-deserved reaction she gets in some 100+ comments.
Human nature and Mother Nature will take care of our population problems. We might be the big fish in the pond…. but it is still Mother Nature’s pond! Leave children (future & present) out of it, they didn’t create the mess, WE did.THEY have to deal with it.
Think airborn Ebola can’t happen? Wasn’t there a book with that plot? A few well timed releases in busy airpory lounges, in a few busy locations… Voila! Just the same, one of those dark meteors can hit us at any time with little warning, as we’ve already had a few close calls in last few decades. Human nature…. and Mother Nature.
Wow!
Has this guy been reading the book of Revelations or what? Apocolypse here we come.
Ryan, “this guy” (whoever it is you are referring to) has actually been reading history, the history of plagues and epidemics. We shouldn’t be so self-centred and myopic as to think that we are the only human beings who’ve been threatened and/or laid low by them. They come and go in cycles–and by the looks of it, it’s our turn again pretty soon. It just so happens that The Book of Revelation (no “s”) has prophetically pointed out to us–if we will be humble enough to listen–what’s coming. ‘Nothing bizarre or sinister about it: JUST THE TRUTH.
This would never happen here in Toronto. I mean. even if you killed 90% of the lefties here, there would be enough of them left over to make sure that burial would be out of the question – would wreck all the ‘green space’ and of course incineration of anything from leaves to garbage to, I suppose, people would be strictly verbotten.
It’s scary that so many of his colleagues would stand up to applaud him. I would not be surprised in the least if Pianka was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Hi Everyone!
I think Saskatchewan’s NDP party may have the solution to the population crisis! I found this on the 650 CKoM Saskatoon radio site:
“Sask Population Loss Should be Emergency – March 29 2006
posted March 29th, 2006
As Saskatchewan’s population plummets yet again, we are now home to 990, 970 souls. In the mid 1980s we had more than a million 30 thousand. The last time our population was at THIS low it was the fall of 1982. Even if you can’t get your head around the second strongest economy in Canada still having people voting with their feet (which is absolutely unacceptable) consider history. 1970s Premier Allen Blakney left office with 50 thousand more people than he started with; 1980s Premier Grant Devine had nearly 20 thousand more; 1990s Premier Roy Romanow left office with nearly 4 thousand more people. Since taking office in January 2001 Premier Calvert and company have LOST 13 thousand people.”
I know 13 thousand isn’t that many, but every little bit would help!
Yes I am trying to lighten the mood.
🙂
J.B.: With all due respect, isn’t it just like the Canadian psyche to shy away from anything unpleasant?
We’re unwisely doing ourselves in by indulging our own decadent appetites: overeating, having sex with whomever whenever we want, polluting the planet, overmedicating ourselves, etc., but you’re suggesting that we need to lighten up. No wonder our kids are the “whatever” generation.
In a nutshell, we’re fiddling while Rome/Toronto burns. The Fourth Horseman is galloping up behind us, and we’ll be the first ones to ask “How did this happen? It’s not fair.”
O Canada.
I hate to break it to you guys but you’ve fallen for an April Fools joke.
Correction, it appears not to be a joke but a fabrication by a creationist nutball. It’s disturbing how readily and uncriticaly people swallow this garbage.
http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2006/04/forrest_mims_cr.html
What garbage are you referring to, Jose? Your uninformed opinion?
Read Andrew Nikforuk’s book. It has nothing to do with creationist theory; it’s about the microbes and bacteria that are all around us and which if unleashed–meaning if we can’t keep them in check, and we increasingly can’t (ask any epidemiologist)–will cause another plague.
If you can’t take the heat, Jose, stay out of the kitchen, por favor.
It’s a hoax. The professor in question never said the things that he was reported to have said. It’s the work of a creationist nutball who is either pulling an April’s fool or has a serious axe to grind.
http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=4720390
Apparently Pianka has said, “If we don’t control our population, microbes will. Why do we have these lethal microbes that kill us in the first place? The answer is, there’s too many of us.”
So, his saying that Earth’s population needs, in his estimation, to be controlled isn’t exactly a hoax. He’s said it. Maybe he hasn’t advocated 90% of us being exterminated, but he does think we need to “control our population.” How exactly? We’ve already got abortion on demand and active euthanasia…what’s next?
Where does the idea come from that a “creationist” rival of his is spreading this rumour?
Those were the Bio 357 course evaluations, not Bio 304.