The Galloping Beaver has a great post that explains, in detail, the timelines and FACTS around how we ended up in Afghanistan, and more to the point, why we have to STAY.
“…If Canada were to suddenly withdraw because Canadians at home are getting squeamish, those who would have us do that should be aware that Canada would be forever viewed as an unreliable ally; not by the US, but by NATO. Canada relies on collective defence treaties to keep defence affordable. Withdrawl would result in no treaties, no collective defence and a huge price to pay in going it alone…”
It’s also cross-posted at The Torch.
UPDATE: Ooops, I forgot to h/t Cerebrus. Sorry about that.
Can you just imagine PMSH uttering the words:
“Bring it on!”
Jack Layton’s head would GO NUCLEAR!
This is good. We should never forget that Canadians are in a “shooting war” and we should continue to deeply consider and evaluate the implications of that. I am particularly happy to see Afghanistan considered as distinct from “Bush’s adventure in Iraq.” Perhaps with Canada’s forces taking more of a commanding role we will begin to see real progress towards “the transformation of Afghanistan into a full member of the world community.”
I have emailed the NDP to ask them to stop being pussies and show some resolve to fight terrorism. My nephew is in the military and their lack of support puts him at additional risk. I suggested it may be easier for them to support military action if they think of it as making Afganistan safe for same sex marriage
LOL Clayton! That’s putting it in perspective.
Here’s hoping that the Canadians find and capture Bin Laden!
On a slightly off thread note, more proof that Hamas is evil (thanks to Arabian Dissent for the link).
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3225214,00.html
I also recently heard on a local radio show (CFRA 580 in Ottawa) that Palestinians run a TV Program that is a “Sesame Street for suicide bombers” of sorts, geared towards pre-school children who are taught conflict resolution by being told to get an AK-47, call attention to the world, and kill, kill, kill (paraphrasing, of course). Nice…
What hope do these future generations have if we don’t support this War on Terror on all fronts.
its amazing to me how damned near half of our population can ignore what went on in afghanistan when the taliban ruled there . beheadings , stonings , hands cut off , hanging s in soccer stadiums , women beaten for walking too loud , forced to go to prayers five times a day , no women or girls in schools , , living with your face covered , and god knows what else , geeeeezuz , it makes me sick to think so many of us think we are the only ones with a right to live a normal life .
when did we turn into a nation of selfish ,spineless,cowards ?
I am particularly happy to see Afghanistan considered as distinct from “Bush’s adventure in Iraq.”
And why is that?
Their situations were pretty damn similar. Why was liberation from the diabolical Taliban different from liberation from Saddam and his homicidal Baathists. The images of Saddam’s mass murders are equally if not more atrocious than the Taliban’s. Ask the Kurds.
It’s fascinating that you would award one set of people liberation with a chance at democracy and not another.
And, when, not if, Iran gets bombed to rid the world of that threat, and you know who is going to do the heavy lifting on that one, will you be blattering about Bush’s and Israel’s “adventure”.
Terrorist scum have been moving freely across borders for decades. The “sovereign borders” of the states that sponsor them now(Iran, Syria) will probably be violated by the US too at some point – if that was your issue – if we are going to win the WOT.
“when did we turn into a nation of selfish ,spineless,cowards ?”
At about the same time the liberal socialist and entitlement phase started here. We want instant gratificaion. Give me everything, now. It is my right. What these maroons forget is that were it not for people like our troops, the one thing that guarantees all the rest,OUR FREEDOM,would not exist. Round up all the whiners and wienies and send them to Iran. Maybe they can be used as canaries, checking for radiation leaks.
Penny:
It’s nice to see a woman with more balls, er spine, than ALL liberal, panty-waisted, metro-sexual, so-called “men.”
HOO-AH!
that’s great . . since the ever so sacrosanct, our shit doesn’t stink NDP fought for SSM becasue it was a universal human right, then they have to support ths same universal human right in the A-Stan.
Sweeeeeet 🙂
since canadians went over to afghanistan, the mission has changed. i ask you; do any of you have a son or daughter or spouse serving over there? if you are all so impressed with the new direction; perhaps you should go over there and serve some time. and perhaps then you will have a different view. obviously i support the individuals over there, but i do not support being a part of it.
Penny you can rewrite history anyway you learn from fox or george and it still won’t make you a typing tough guy. Join the army now.
I’m near 60 now…are you or doug elligible?
This is the internet and you’re a damned liar, NOT “a parent of one of them”. Such impersonation is despicable and beneath contempt.
…and welcome to the 21st century, get used to dead soldiers, because this one’s going to make the 20th century look like a trip to Disneyland.
“get used to dead soldiers, because this one’s going to make the 20th century look like a trip to Disneyland”
could you fill in some details ?? 20th century was very hard on soldiers – to say nothing of civilians.
My son has signed up. He is a very well read, very determined, very intellectual young man. He has no doubt as to what his choices are; and I’ve left him with nothing but blunt truths as what he may be walking into.
He has been mostly influenced by his correspondence with those already in the forces. It is they, who are so incredibly dedicated to improving the lives of Afghans and Iraqis who have motivated him more than even “freedom” for Canada. If the Utopian Liberals would spend any time talking to those troops involved in fighting terror, they’d find one common theme; and that is that the troops usually find themselves motivated by the indiginious peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan. 90% of them feel this… it’s this motivation even more so than fighting for the USA or Canada. They want to help “those” people over there. This concept is so far removed from the Liberal Utopian mindset that one might as well be speaking Martian.
Liberalism amounts to complex intellectual exercises that pretend to foster humanism, yet in the end deprive society of its most basic and most important survival instincts.
I honor the men and woman in Iraq and Afghanistan, because they are there for all the right reasons.
Geez, Doug, you’re making me blush.
To all those morons and idiots who can’t think of a better argument than “if you support the war YOU should fight it too.” Answer this:
If you are so strongly supportive of the other side why don’t you go to Afghanistan, Iraq or Iran and become a human shield?……WHAT’S THE MATTER CHICKEN DOVE?
When an elected gov’t asks for help, should we just walk away? Because, ‘parent of one of them,’ that’s what it sounds like you want.
You don’t want us to be part of NATO anymore? We should rip up any treaties we’ve signed?
If the Liberals that are bugged at being voted out of power started guerrilla warfare in Canada, do we have enough troops to deal with that effectively? Probably not; we would likely have to ask for help (thanks to those same Liberals). So would the US or UK soldiers walk away?
What’s the difference?
or think of it another way . . . maybe we should ask the people of Holland if they are happy that we intervened to help them rid that country of the facists du jour of the 1940’s.
What would lay-down Layton have said in 1939 ??
whaaaaa, whaaaa,, whaaaaa I want my NDP mommy, I want my comfy blankie. whaaa, whaaaa, whaaaaaaa
Socialism sucks. Socialists are suckers.
Doug, where’d you get the idea that I support the other side?
My comments have said get Osama and the Taliban, otherwise get out.
I support the guys, having grown up in the military and being in the Militia till my 30’s.
I don’t support the chimp about iraq or iran.
Compare/contrast these 2 news items on the same website. The first item replete with sneering contempt for Gen. Hillier; the second with gratitude and reverence for a fallen soldier. Lower Sackville honours their fallen soldiers; lowest Bourque.org sneers/hisses at their General.
Lest We Forget: Cpl. Paul Davis. +
Bourque.org headlined (presumably written/posted by Bourque) a news item in which Bourque characterized Gen. Hillier as “cowardly”. This is contemptible; is it libellous? The headline was changed later.
Bourque’s split personality is that of the left: cognitive dissonance. His use of the word “cowardly” betrays Bourque; is Bourque an appeaser, a fellow-traveller with the Islamist jihad terrorists? Is he to ignored as an ignorant moonbat? +
Roadside blast opens Hillier’s eyes
PADA, Afghanistan (CP) – Canada’s top soldier had just finished an amiable chat with an Afghan village elder on Friday when a roadside bomb blasted a dark plume into the sky about 800 metres away, damaging a Canadian Bison armoured vehicle. Full Story
Lower Sackville remembers fallen soldier
Cpl. Paul Davis is being remembered “as a valued brother and an inspirational and honourable Canadian soldier” during a full military funeral in Nova Scotia attended by hundreds of mourners +
via cnews
why don’t you go to Afghanistan, Iraq or Iran and become a human shield? WHAT’S THE MATTER CHICKEN DOVE?
Doug, he and his ilk are too tied”>http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4843/1885/1600/liberalpets.jpg”>tied up at the moment.
The human shields. LOL. That same moonbat brigade that the US troops had to rescue in Iraq from their circumstances and the resentful natives. The little lunatics, maxing out their 2 guinea pig powered brains, selectively stayed out of Kurdish and Shiia territory. No comprehension of their mission there. Might get roughed up a little.
I haven’t heard of any moonbat contingency headed to Iran to guard the reactors yet. Please, please, please don’t fail us now. Can’t compete in the Oscars, we’ve got a Darwin Award for you.
I quit checking Bourque’s site after the election; the shrieking was too hard on my ears.
Candace,I believe you and I are just two of thousands that fled that site.
I’ve seen million dollar race cars that can’t turn hard left that fast.
I support the guys, having grown up in the military and being in the Militia till my 30’s.
steve “in bc” or “d” and all of his many troll incarnations recent revelation that he is 60, a proud vet, yada, yada, yada……..
I don’t support the chimp about iraq or iran.
The utterance of an ex-military 60 year old??? (Re-read steve’s past adolescent dribble.) Try a new identity, steve. This one isn’t working.
steve “whoever”, you are a pathological liar, a troll seeking attention, pathological and predictably boring and anti-social as a diagnosis.
Cutting off steve’s oxygen would be a mercy killing. Don’t respond to him.
***Disclaimer: this is a public service announcement posted at intervals for new eyes and posters.
Not supporting the chimp is not surprising since so many of his troops don’t…62%?
Penny..our entry into the Afghan war was properly done and only feasible if our country agrees on what the long term strategy is. I don’t think all citizens have had that discussion. You and I cannot even agree on reality.
Steve, my understanding is that the long-term strategy is stabilization of a country that has been war-torn for what, three decades? What’s to discuss? If people weren’t paying attention & now suddenly ARE, whose fault is that? Hillier’s? I think not.
You ask whose fault…Parliament..the rush to ok in Parliament with no discussion about the increasing of our personnel and the assumption of command. Also, the election would have been a good time.
I agree our strategic interest is stabilization, but I think that is not a discussion now because the guys are there and the short term we can agree on. At some point, the long term goals have to be known…creating an army, replacing the control of anti-taliban warlords who got to carve up the country, and if we can afford this for long. Hillier already has to divert alot of $ to pay for this.
Well, it was the Liberal gov’t that refused a debate (with a vote) on this particular deployment; I would hope that Harper would allow for debate on future deployments.
The long term goals have been stated. And this isn’t just a Canadian mission, there are other countries involved. Frankly, I’d rather see us spend it rebuilding Afghanistan than on any damage done by terrorist activity in Canada.
Doug: It’s very easy to beat the drums of war when someone else has got to do the bleeding, like Bush,Cheney,Wolfowitz,Limbaugh etc., your US chickenhawk counterparts. Fred: The left was way ahead of the curve by the time Holland was liberated; they were fighting fascism in Spain in 1936.
For “Steve in BC” and “Kelj”:
I am quite happy to have Doug, Penny, Fred, et al, on my side. I do regret that your equivocal statements leave me less confidence of your dauntless support for Canada’s Armed Forces.
Cheers
JMH
Kelj, just to clarify something:
Fascism = national socialism = the left. The left were not ‘ahead of the curve’ when it came to facism, they were simply on a different part of it. Both communism and fascism are totalitarian leftist ideologies. The only difference between the two is their orientation toward the revolution: communism sees the revolution as global, while fascism sees it as national – hence the term national socialism. The fight you refer to was over the issue of following either Mussolini or Lenin, i.e., either national socialism or global communism. The only thing that makes ‘fascism’ appear to be a phenomenon of the ‘right’ rather than of the ‘left’, is its nationalist character.
Check this out if you do not believe me:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385511841/102-4859150-5820906?v=glance&n=283155
Also, it is even easier to take the moral ‘high-ground’ of being a pacifist when other people fight and bleed for your freedom to be one – it is the ultimate in free-riding.
Supporting the troops means more than simply wanting to keep them out of harms way; it means respecting and honoring their willingness to live and die by the hardness and cruelty of political necessity.
Attention: Layton reads my Blog!
Obviously… because he has within the past twenty-four hours adopted exactly my position on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan. He wants : “… a decision that would affect further engagements and commitments by Canada down the road.”
In other words, he wants a decision now promising a date for a future vote placing parameters on Canada’s on-going mission in Afghanistan. Perfectly reasonable. Who could possibly be against such a thing?
ANYONE? ANYONE?
To visit the famous BigCityLib Blog go to:
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/
bigcitylib
Stop whoring yourself. Your innane daily infomercials are pathetic.
Only you mother reads your damn blog.
Put an ad in the classifieds, for God’s sake.
MYSB…if you get your history lessons from lucinda’s little boy jonah…you’re screwed before you make the case.
What a putz.
Raymond Carr ed., The Republic and the Civil War in Spain, London: Macmillan, 1971.
Helen Graham, The Spanish Republic at War, 1936-1939, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2002.
Paul Preston, A Concise History of the Spanish Civil War, London: Fontana, 1996.
Hugh Thomas, The Spanish Civil War, London: Eyre and Spottiswoode, 1961.
Franco fought the communists well funded by Russia and communist/socialists brigades.
The left learned no lessons from Hitler. They aped his “final solution” adapting it to their own locals.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, the nut in North Korea…..the body count far exceeds WWII. By every empirical metric communism failed except in the minds of delusional insular academics and the poor kids that spout their undigested garbage.
penny, are you the comments police?
I have an image of you doing this kind of bossy traffic/permission control in the playground when you were a kid.
Some kids went along with it as long as it wasn’t directed at them, the rest just laughed at her.
Give up control to the guest bloggers and make some arguments that aren’t off the fax machine from chimpy or cut and pasted from lgf.
Steve in BC,
Name calling is always the last bastion of those who do not have reasonable argument on their side. Have you ever read the Nazi platform? They were clearly socialists.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program
“The Party Program of the NSDAP was proclaimed on the 24 February 1920 by Adolf Hitler at the first large Party gathering in Munich and since that day has remained unaltered. Within the national socialist philosophy is summarized in 25 points [MSYB: abridged for brevity, see link above for whole platform]:
3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population.
7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand:
11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.”
MSYB: The international brigades fought facsism in defence of the DEMOCRATIC Spanish republic. I’m no pacifist, but a drop of blood spilled in defence of that fool Bush’s agenda is one too many.
Yes, they fought in defense of the democratic Spanish republic, but not because they believed in democratic republican government, but rather because they believed in a global communist revolution instead of a national one. As I said, they favored Lenin to Mussolini. And since you do not address my point that national socialism (a.k.a., fascism) is a totalitarian leftist ideology, I’ll assume you agree.
It’s nice to know that your are not simply a pacifist, but rather simply disagree on a matter of policy – it allows for civilized debate, without name calling. And just to let you know, I was not calling you a pacifist but merely pointing out that being one is being a free-rider (again, since you didn’t address the point I’ll assume you recognize that as true).
Once again the right tries that nazi’s were socialist bs.
Hitler’s Nazi Party was not a Socialist Party. Many say that Hitler was a Socialist because of the Nazi Party’s misnomer: The National Socialist Party. Socialism requires the means of production to be owned by the workers. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship — it can only be democratic. Also many Socialist Nations do not have a strong military backing. Some say Stalin’s Russia was a socialist economy, but he was a fascist. So, although his economy was left wing, his way of ruling was not. His ruling was more like an aristocracy.
kelj: We are not in Afghanistan because of Bush. Go back & read the original post. Bush invaded Iraq. NATO forces, with UN approval, invaded Afghanistan when the Taliban refused to surrender Bin Laden. Canadian blood was spilled on 9/11, or doesn’t that matter to you?
Steve in BC – stop with the attacks. If you want to debate a point, debate the point without attacking the person who made the point you want to debate. If you can’t debate without name calling, pop a valium or a vitamin B & try again in 30 minutes.
bigcitylib – try reading the CPC platform. You didn’t say it first, neither did Jack.
Candace?…stop with the attacks?
Why not nail Penny for: “you are a pathological liar, a troll seeking attention, pathological and predictably boring and anti-social as a diagnosis.”
or
“Cutting off steve’s oxygen would be a mercy killing”
To someone else .. “whoring yourself”
She lowers the bar, I just argue.
steve: “Penny you can rewrite history anyway you learn from fox or george and it still won’t make you a typing tough guy.” You started it.
Penny – he’s got a point. He & I are debating on a different thread & I haven’t seen any troll-like tendencies. I don’t always agree with what he has to say (actually, I rarely agree) but if he’s willing to debate & show some links, I’m game. Compared to a lot of trolls I’ve run into, steve would fall into the 60’s doll-with-pointy-orange-hair variety, assuming he actually falls into that category.
Play nice.
fair enough. i apologize to Penny.
Steve in BC:
Yeah, yeah, ‘communism was never really implemented, it would be democratic if it was …’ Keep dreaming of your socialist utopia. The facts remain, every time socialism is implemented it results in totalitarianism. And thank you for conceeding that Stalin and Hitler were the same, as I said: communism = fascisim, except for their perspective on the limits of the revolution. Face it, Hitler was a socialist.
Hi Penny, my comment about “Bush’s adventure” was in quotation marks because it was lifted directly from the article that was the subject of this post on Kate’s blog. I think you may not have finished reading the article. I’d be interested in discussing it when you have.
cheers!
The only reason we are in Afghanistan is that our new Prime Minister wants to leave some kind of legacy behind when he’s gone. I hope he lives to regret his policies. We are now at war in Afghanistan. Russia failed,the USA failed,Alexander the Great failed. We won’t fail. We’re small players in the world of warfare. I like the idea of peace makers better. When there is high unemployment the governments start recruiting kids for the army. It’s a make work project.
Oh, and Steve in BC … after you’ve read the platform posted above, tell me that the Nazi party under Hitler was not socialist. I’ll say it again, face it, Hitler was a socialist.