The staff of an alternative weekly have walked out over their publisher’s refusal to reprint the cartoons. The Editor-In Chief;
New York Press, like so many other publications, has suborned its own professed principles. For all the talk of freedom of speech, only the New York Sun locally and two other papers nationally have mustered the minimal courage needed to print simple and not especially offensive editorial cartoons that have been used as a pretext for great and greatly menacing violence directed against journalists, cartoonists, humanitarian aid workers, diplomats and others who represent the basic values and obligations of Western civilization.
Daniel Pipes distills the issue down to it’s core question;
Will Westerners accede to a double standard by which Muslims are free to insult Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism, while Muhammad, Islam, and Muslims enjoy immunity from insults? Muslims routinely publish cartoons far more offensive than the Danish ones. Are they entitled to dish it out while being insulated from similar indignities?
The answer is far from clear at the moment.
Powerline has a big roundup on the orchestration of the protests. The campaign is being funded by a number of M.E. governments, and it’s not out of the realm of possibility that some of it is designed to water down attention on Iran’s nuclear crisis with the UN. Quoting Fred Siegel;
The Arab world understands Europe�s weaknesses far better than the other way around. Criticism of Islamism is usually described by Muslim spokesmen as “racist” as if religious ideology was a biological given. Even more important, they have learned how to game Western liberalism. When Muslim spokesmen deny the Holocaust, they defend themselves on the grounds that they are only exercising their free speech rights. When they insist that images offensive to Muslims should be barred, they drop the free speech bit and argue on the grounds of multi-cultural sensitivity. The latter argument received strong backing from most of the European left which, looking upon Muslims as the new proletariat, insists that Islamophobia, not Islamofascism, is the great issue of the day.
Lots of that here, too.
In the meantime, Iran is hosting Holocaust cartoon contest and the Jewish street explodes.
On more MSM story.
When did newsmaking become more about politics than news??? The MSM sits cowering in its offices for fear of offending someone.
What happened to reporting the news?? What happened to objectivity?? pathetic.
I have one more issue with the extremists and the violence. Aside from the burning of flags (which IMHO is very annoying, very wrong no matter the slight)… Aside from that: There have been attacks on embassys. Denmarks, and overnight Danish ones too.
Last time I looked, an embassy is considered soverign soil of the country it serves. An attack on one is an attack on the soil of the country. (ie. War on your neighbours)
The people in the streets (speaking for freedom of religeon, if it is their religeon or free speeh, not if it is others)…. they need to take a deep breath and settle down a bit…. Before the war they have already taken the first shots in materializes and the human cost on both sides skyrockets.
The reactions in the ME just prove the point that in general in the ME muslims are violent. Not ALL to be sure, but in general. Elsewhere in the world they protest peacefully even if the signs have violent messages. Do we see Christians reacting the same way to similar or worse cartoons? I haven’t noticed any similar incidents involving Christians. Makes me wonder…. what DID they know during the Crusades that we have forgotten? However, a reporter said it yesterday that it is hard enough working in the ME without this furor going on. He said now it is almost impossible to move around and that so far being Canadian is about all that is saving his skin…. so far. Why is it the calmer Muslim heads are seldom heard? Until they clean up their act worldwide, they will always be viewed as violent.
I don’t want to make excuses for nutjob islamists, but an article in the news today pointed out that 2 of the most radical muslim countries in the world haven’t had much in the way of protests at all; those being Saudi Arabia and Egypt. The belief is that Syria and Iran along with Al Quaeda have been stoking the flames of muslim passion on this subject;
Yes; I realize that I’m not supposed to be using semi;colons all over the place; but I;m using them as a show of solidarity with Kate vs; the ThickSlab commentor in previous threads;!;
Two words Islamist jihadists hate:
Mohammedans. Pork. >>>
Comments
What was that about limits proposed on free speech arising out of a duty not to inflame the Muslim street? Under what category of inflammation does attributing a pig-snouted depiction of Mohammed to the Jyllands-Posten cartoons fall, when that cartoon was never published by the newspaper, and as anyone from the BBC might have known by simply obtaining a copy of the cartoons? The blogs have been known this for a long time and more’s the shame.
The BBC site adds the offending picture was taken from a “pig-squealing” competition.
(Update: A reader has e-mailed to say that the original of the “pig” picture was from a “pig-squealing” competition held in France every summer. Some character dressed up like a pig. See the link to the neandernews.com site on the right for the details.
Ekstra Bladet has also published a letter taken by the delegation on its mission. This gives the delegation’s account of how the cartoons originated and what the reaction to them was. But it also mentions other pictures, which it said were “much more offending.” These presumably included the “pig” picture, whose origin is now known.)
Western diplomats appear to have missed this entirely and seem to have made no attempt to counter some of the arguments in the pamphlet or to distinguish between the various portrayals.
This is going to rank right up there with the fake Koran-flushing story which got people killed in Afghanistan. No one has a right to expect perfection from the media. Like intelligence agencies, which they resemble in some respects, the media sometimes gets things wrong. But I’d argue that some publications have a dangerous tendency to believe stories like “right-wing Danish publication portrays Mohammed as pig” because they want to believe it. This phenomenon is called bias and bias is dangerous not because it predisposes one to a wrong set of opinions but to the wrong set of facts. >>>
fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com
I think this is worth repeating here:
“I posted this comment at the Zerb’s “moderated” blog about nalf an hour ago. Will be interesting to see if she posts it [not yet, two hours later].
An excellent column on “la trahison des intellectuels”, by Dan Gardner, Ottawa Citizen, Feb. 8: “Why the Danish cartoons are works of art”
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=7e1e8e6e-a937-4924-89b5-8af99d06a2d7&p=2
Excerpts:
‘It seems Western commentators have come to a rough consensus about the Danish cartoons that unleashed fury all over the Muslim world. The rioting and death threats are excessive, but the Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, is also at fault for commissioning and publishing the cartoons. It was a juvenile stunt intended to do nothing more than offend. The editor is an idiot…
It’s a remarkable contrast with 1999.
The controversy that year began when the Brooklyn Museum of Art hosted an exhibit called Sensation, featuring the sort of disturbing and strange work that delights modern art fanciers while leaving most people bewildered.
The most controversial piece was The Holy Virgin Mary by British artist Chris Ofili, a portrait of an African Virgin Mary done in oil paint and elephant dung. Sprinkled throughout were pictures of genitalia cut from pornographic magazines.
Christian conservatives were — unsurprisingly — horrified at seeing the Mother of God done up in scat and porn. Rudy Giuliani, then the mayor of New York, called the exhibit “sick” and tried to yank the museum’s public funding.
The liberal counter-assault was furious and determined. The artistic and journalistic elite loudly defended the museum and polls found most New Yorkers sided with the museum…
The mayor’s defeat was complete when a federal court barred him from taking the museum’s funding. The “rednecks” had been routed, crowed an arts commentator in the Toronto Star [Zerb: any views?]…
…the standard position was that shocking art, even offensive art, is a necessary and valuable contribution to public life. “Part of the power of the work is to evoke discussion,” said one artist. The very fact that The Holy Virgin Mary had provoked furious debate was proof of its worth.
This is a bedrock idea in modern art and literature. Touch the taboo. Say the unspeakable. In doing so, artists and writers wake people from their half-conscious daily routines, make them look around, think, imagine, and ask “Why?” The preferred word in art schools and academia is “transgression.”
“Art is at its best when it generates a deep response from a broad community, when it challenges the status quo. This type of contemporary art intentionally cries out, ‘Wake up, world!’ Its goal is social change,” said Louise May, the artistic director of a Canadian arts centre in a commentary broadcast on the CBC. “So the next time you’re confronted by an art work whose only purpose seems to be to offend, pause before you react…
And yet today, many of those who stoutly defended the Brooklyn Museum of Art are disparaging the Danish editors and artists for having being so juvenile as to create and publish works they knew would cause terrible offence…
In 1999, the arts community was right to defend the value of transgression in art. The liberal intelligentsia was right. Liberal journalists were right.
But today, they are wrong. What the Danish editors and cartoonists did was not silly or juvenile. It was courageous. It was magnificent. It was art.’
Mark
Ottawa”
Well said, Mark! You’ve clearly exposed the COWARDICE and HYPOCRISY of the Left, who dominate so much of the MSM and the art world.
I understand the importance of free speech in the media, and I recognize that the MSM falls far short of a role that would be ideal in a free and democratic society. And I too am offended and bewildered by the spectacular hypocrisy and over-reaction of Muslim radicals, as they distort this issue and exploit it to attack everthing they identify as Western.
However, we should exercize caution in advocating the repeated dissemination of these editorial cartoons as a demonstration of our free speech. Remember that Canada has thousands of members of our Armed Forces in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries. These soldiers are serving our contry’s interests in an increasingly violent and deadly war zone. We must not place the lives of these men and women at even more risk as a result of cartoons.
Just image if history proves that the Third World War was started by “left wing newspapers”, rather than G.W. Bush !!!
These reports are chilling when you remember the comments made after an Islamist won the nomination, and later the election, as a Liberal MP–that being–Islam has a toehold in the West with the nomination of this man.
Bacardi,
The Saudi and Egyptian governments are not Theocratic in their own right. The Saudi Government uses Islam as an excuse and distraction to hold on to power, however, they are also at war with the true Islam-o-fascists. Do not misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that these governments aren’t “that bad.” For the Saudi government religion is simply a means to an end, they are run-of-the-mill thugs and murderers. Egypt is occupied by the ferry disaster and is trying to position itself as a moderate regime. This is probably why they have not had much to say.
ML states: �However, we should exercize caution in advocating the repeated dissemination of these editorial cartoons as a demonstration of our free speech. Remember that Canada has thousands of members of our Armed Forces in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries. These soldiers are serving our contry’s interests in an increasingly violent and deadly war zone. We must not place the lives of these men and women at even more risk as a result of cartoons.�
This is wrong. We are in a fight, like it or not. More lives will be placed at risk if we give in now. If we give an inch the Islam-o-fascists will try and take a mile. The more we are perceived as week the more they will try and push us. Not only will this become more frequent, but it will be more aggressive. It is a disservice to the Armed Forces to say lives are put at risk because of cartoons. Lives are at risk because we face an evil, unreasonable, uncivilized, immoral, and undemocratic enemy. As a Service man I feel I must remind you I exist so these sorts of people will not tell us what we, in this free country, can or cannot do, say, or print. If they try my colleagues and I will stop them.
At the end of the day we should be glad this has happened now. It demonstrates what these countries are really like — specifically Iran. Should steel opposing governments in the face of Iran’s nuclear programme.
I started reading Arab News and Islam Online and Aljezeera about 5 years ago.
IMHO, much of the time the West is chasing their tail in this debate.
Without some understanding of the meaning of dhimmie and ummah the discussion is only carried on in terms of the Wests concept of “free speech”.
Islamic law is what is driving the demonstrations.
And in many places the left in the West will bow down while Islamics consolidate power in Islamic countries.
An apology to Antonia Zerbisias. She had accidentally deleted my comment(above), then found it and sent it back to me so I could re-submit. Which I have done.
Mark
Ottawa
Mr. C.J. Mullan, I take exception to being called wrong; I am being realistic. We have or will soon have only 2300 troops in Afghanistan. If we lose the support of the non-combatant population, even with the support of our allies, our mission will fail.
I do not doubt the resolve of our Forces, nor do I insult them. My son is an infantryman there as I write, and I agree with you about the nature of the enemy. However, unless we are willing to commit many more thosands of troops to the continuing war in Afghanistan (and maybe we should), a little caution would be in order.
Well, I’m doing my part. I’m now boycotting Muslims products like pre-fab caves, suicide belts and the Koran.
I’m leaving oil out of the equation because at some point in their escalating bloody jihad I suspect the US, Canada, Israel and Europe will be the rightful owners.
1. My mother grew up in Edmonton, and used to get rocks thrown at her while walking to her Catholic school. I am sure glad this didn’t spill over to the next generation. Judging by the rather young age of a majority of these protesters, it seems like it may take several generations, if ever, to try and get these people to show a level of tolerance.
2. I can only imagine that equating Israelis to nazis must be the ultimate insult.
3. 😉
If all Western media & cultural organizations had an Iranian Cleric on staff we wouldn’t run into these messy problems. He could judge their content to make sure nothing offends Allah or Muslims and simply delete content that might be offensive. This would make it easier for all of us to get along.
ML,
Exception taken or not I believe you are wrong. I agree with your assessment of the necessity of winning hearts and minds. This is an opportunity to show these people what the West has to offer. That is how we will win their hearts and minds. As I have already commented we can fight this battle now or latter. It will be fought. Best while the enemy is week.
Anything short of “business as usual” is giving in to blackmail, even if the motivation is noble and meant to protect our forces. It is much like giving in to a child�s temper-tantrum. The stakes high, result the same.
re; simplton;
If all western media and cultural organizations had an Iranian (Islamic?) cleric on staff we wouldn’t run into these messy problems? …….”content that MIGHT be offensive”?
well…
If all western media and cultural organizations had a Catholic (rep.) on staff, we wouldn’t be eating hamburger on fridays, condoms would never be available (or necessary?) dad would go to work, mom would bake cookies…
If all western media and cultural organizations had a Hindu (rep.) on staff, that would sure kick the shit out of the beef industry in Alberta…
If all western media and cultural organizations had an
Amish (rep.) on staff, well that would take care of all those busy streets filled with cars… although I’d feel quite safe in front of any old embassy….
It isn’t our cultural sensitivity or lack of it, that has led to this outburst of idiocy. It is their inabililty to question themselves, and their their religion.
It is their intolerance.
The Cons are taking a stand:
“This sensitive issue highlights the need for a better understanding of Islam and of Muslim communities.”
Hehehehe
http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2006/02/mackays_disappo.html
Look Out! See following:
Prophet Muhammad overlooking justice in Washington DC Supreme Court since 1930s
By Judi McLeod
Wednesday, February 8, 2006
Did a 1997 U.S. Supreme Court rejection of a petition from domestic Muslims to remove a then 66-year-old depiction of the Prophet Muhammad from its Washington, DC courtroom pave the way for Muslim violent protest over the Jyllands-Posten cartoons?
Riots broke out half way around the world in 1997 when Chief Justice William Rehnquist refused to remove the portion of a marble frieze representing the Prophet Muhammad.
The Muslim group had lobbied to have the image of Muhammad, who is shown with a sword in his hand and is standing between images of Charlemagne and the Emperor Justinian, sandblasted away. The group offered to pay for the project and to replace it with marble inscription bearing quotations from the Koran. (Positive Atheism.org).
“I feel offended.
Zealots are nailing veils onto the faces of my sisters in Afghanistan and Pakistan and are busy hanging women, homosexuals, adulterers and non-believers.
But human rights, women’s rights and the right to liberty are the most exalted in the history of humanity; this is the tradition in which I was raised. Values that make the world better and more peaceful.
I demand that the governments of Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Indonesia and Egypt apologise to me. Otherwise I am unfortunately forced to threaten, beat up, kidnap or behead their citizens. Because I am somewhat sensitive about my cultural identity.”
What next, bearded one?
Foreign Minister Peter MacKay, Feb. 8:
“The Government of Canada will continue to promote a better understanding of Islam internationally, in partnership with Muslim communities.”
http://w01.international.gc.ca/m…3656&language=E
What is the Government of Canada doing to promote better understanding internationally of Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Jainism, Bahaism, Zoroastrianism, Wiccan religion, etc., etc.? Not to speak of Judaism and, indeed, Christianity.
Does one detect a certain favouritism? And what about the agnostics and us poor atheists?
The Government of Canada’s position smells of fear. Or should one say appeasement?
Mark
Ottawa
Good fun:
http://www.pavefrance.com/blog/
http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/dacha/index.html
Snookie “Why is it the calmer Muslim heads are seldom heard?”
I hear them all the time. It depends on what source of information you choose to tune into.
penny “I’m leaving oil out of the equation because at some point in their escalating bloody jihad I suspect the US, Canada, Israel and Europe will be the rightful owners.”
And the lefties get accused of wishful thinking. Penny, I wouldn’t hold your breath for the conquest and subjugation of the Middle East.
Carl ” Just image if history proves that the Third World War was started by “left wing newspapers”, rather than G.W. Bush !!!”
Umm… you aren’t secretly hoping that this happens do you?
simpleton,
I believe that marc58510 could be described as being sarcasmly challenged.
“Snookie “Why is it the calmer Muslim heads are seldom heard?”
“I hear them all the time. It depends on what source of information you choose to tune into.”
Jose,
Could you please link to the sources that you tune into for us, or do you just hear them in your head?
Just asking.
Everything I have about The War of the 12
Cartoons ( links, blogs, quips, quotes, aggravating pictures ) is
located here- click, scroll backwards:
–Link-
Cal “Could you please link to the sources that you tune into for us, or do you just hear them in your head?”
You must have missed the last two times http://blogsbyiranians.com/. But my main source is the islamic people I rub elbows with on a daily basis where I live.
Just out of curiosity, do you know many muslims?
Jose,
Yes I do know many Muslims.
I lived in the United Arab Emirates for 5 years. My little girls best playmates are named Rashid and Mohammed. We visited and stayed with their family again last Fall.
Another playmates father is half Egyptian/Palestinian. He lent me his copy of Ibn Warrraq’s-Why I Am Not A Muslim. He has converted to Christianity and spends most of the time on the internet trying to convert others. A dangerous occupation in that part of the world!
I feel perfectly safe with the Muslims there. But they were all quite indifferent to the Islamists that have highjacked their religion. Never once had I heard one speak out about the violence being perpetrated in their name.
Except on September 11 when the pictures of the twin towers being struck were being shown on large screen TV’s in the hotel bar. Some of the young Emirati men jumped up cheering and clapping.
A large contingent of Brit expats were at the bar too. And there was a very good rendition of what we call, a bench clearing brawl. Surprised the hell out of those pampered playboys.
Takiyah, expedient lying, in practice by the scumbag imam from Denmark. Down with apology. Down with Islamist jihad.
Two words Islam hates:
Mohammedans. Pork. >>>
Islamic scholar who disseminated cartoons of Prophet speaks out
Canadian Broadcast News ^ | Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:53:08 EST | CBC News
Posted on 02/08/2006 5:25:10 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
The Danish Islamic scholar who brought cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad to the attention of Muslim leaders around the world says he was only trying to boost his campaign to get an apology from the Danish newspaper that first published them.
Danish Islamic scholar Ahmed Akkari, right, and Carsten Juste, editor in chief of the Danish daily Jyllands-Posten, which published cartoons depicting the Prophet, before a debate on Danish television, Sunday, Feb. 5. (AP Photo/POLFOTO, Carsten Snejbjerg)
“I guess we took the illustrations to influential people so they could help,” Ahmed Akkari told CBC News on Wednesday. “Is it so tough giving an apology?”
The 31-year-old took the illustrations with him during a December trip to the Middle East. The cartoons � one showing the Prophet wearing a bomb-shaped turban � were originally published in Jyllands-Posten in September and later republished in various European newspapers.
Muslim tradition forbids any depiction of Muhammad, even if it’s complimentary, out of concern it could lead to idolatry.
The cartoons have sparked violent protests in several Muslim countries, including Afghanistan, where at least eight protesters have died.
* FROM FEB. 8, 2006: Afghan clerics appeal for end to protests
In an interview with the Globe and Mail, Akkari said he did not mean for his mission to lead to such violence. He said while he is still angered that the media would print images offensive to Islam, he would like to find a way to end the current crisis.
During his visits with Muslim leaders, Akkari also showed images that had not been published in any newspaper, but were part of hate mail sent to his colleagues.
Those drawings show the Prophet as “a pig, a dog, a woman and a child-sodomizing madman,” says the Globe.
He said the images were not meant to be mistaken for cartoons published in newspapers, but protesters have cited the drawings during their rallies.
When asked by CBC News why he included these images when they had nothing to do with the published newspaper cartoons, Akkari defended his actions.
“It was taken out of context and somebody is trying … to give us the guilt for what is happening.” >>>
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1574779/posts
Snookie “Why is it the calmer Muslim heads are seldom heard?”
i’d wager to guess that dissenting voices are harder to hear when your head is detached from your body….
it seems the offensive cartoon is now in the Egyptian press… which of course means that Iran will be boycotting Egyptian… ummm…. Egyptian “stuff”
I cannot tell it this is photoshop at work… but scroll down a bit for this…
http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/02/boycott-egypt.html
Iran is trying to enlarge the flaming. That much is obvious.
No need for us to contribute by also allowing ourselves to become inflamed.
Best policy is to be polite to your Moslem neighbours. They are mostly Canadian.
They know who the problem is. Give them a chance to cooperate with CICIS. They more than anyone want to avoid being enslaved in burkahs and endless silence unless spoken to.
Do not play into the trap that Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia have set. Pick up your cards on the table and put them away for now. TG
Julius Streicher published extremely pro-nazi/anti-semitic cartoons in ‘Der Streicher’ mag in Hitler’s Germany.
He was HUNG by the Nuremberg Tribunal in 1946 for his role in promoting hatred.
This was 60, not 600 years ago.
Proves there is a limit–anything promoting racial hatred BY EITHER SIDE has to cease and desist toot sweet. Once tit-for-tat violence escalates we are done. I suspect Iran WANTS this outrage to grow as a pretense–watch for it.
“der stuermer” mag srry
Cal “Except on September 11 when the pictures of the twin towers being struck were being shown on large screen TV’s in the hotel bar. Some of the young Emirati men jumped up cheering and clapping”
This is disgusting I agree. But to be fair we get a lot of people right here celebrating with thinly veiled glee at the news of Toronto’s recent spate of gun deaths. And if you went back to the 1980s you’d find a lot of Canadians of Irish descent who openly supported the IRA’s bombing campaign.
I’m not making apologies for Islamic radicals I despise them. I hope those Brits gave those guys a good pasting. But a bit of perspective is in order.
Tony Guitar “Do not play into the trap that Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia have set. Pick up your cards on the table and put them away for now. TG”
Here here. I agree heartily, don’t take the bait.
Heh, there was some university professor on the news last night parroting Trudeau’s “just watch me” comment concerning things “intellectuals” are told they can’t talk about.
Apparently threats of some sort were made and the professor has fallen silent.
Still watching. heh
So, I wonder if the media and bloggers will be publishing the Iranian cartoons in the name of free speech?
Ol Hoss,
Just sent Dr. March a letter of support. I would support the publishing of any of those cartoons. Or any at radioislam.org The cartoons help expose the nature of our enemy. The enemy who wishes to dictate beliefs and limit freedom. The enemy who feels he has the right to insult while being protected from the same. The enemy who thinks stoning is civilized.
You do that. lol
Maybe some cartoons on sodomy, while you’re at it.
Let’s see how far free speech really goes.
Ol Hoss,
You seem keen to find hypocrisy. Look hard, spin fast, and you will find it. The simple fact is that Islam is looking for protection that is not afforded to any religion in Western democracies.
Furthermore, the rioting masses are demonstrating their emotional immaturity to the world. Have a look at the cartoons at radioislam.org How many embassy in the Israel and the US were burned? How many protests calling for murder and terrorism were held? The kids need a babysitter.