Angry in the Great White North has a post about Jodie Wheatle, a young black man arrested in a Toronto mall crowded with families shopping. After unsuccessfully resisting arrest, officers discovered a loaded .45-calibre handgun in his possession. Not just loaded, but cocked and with a round in the chamber.
A justice of the peace looked over the multiple weapons charges, and put him back on the streets on $10,000 bail.
Three weeks later, police arrested him again. This time on suspicion of murder. A 25-year-old car salesman was shot in the head and the chest in his sales lot when Wheadle and his friends got angry over financing difficulties related to their car purchase.
Our Chief Justice just delivered a speech in which she said the judiciary whould do whatever they think is right “even in the face of clearly enacted laws or hostile public opinion”.
I don’t think she knows what “hostile” really means. Jodie Wheadle is a hostile man, and now a family must struggle with a violent murder just three weeks before Christmas. I guess that justice of the peace took Chief Justice McLachlin’s advice on doing whatever you think is right, and the public be damned.
Maybe if Canadians become more “hostile”, our judges would start taking us seriously.
BTW on the topic of race and murder: anyone else seen the fuss that is being made of that blackfella gangster Tookie Williams. I encourage everyone here to email Gov. Schwarzenegger aand encourage him to carry out that motherf&*%er’s exectuion next week!
May he suffer in the afterlife!
I have no problem with calling an Indian murderer an Indian murderer or native murderer. That’s what they are and it often identifies a different aspect of the crime and a different problem for society.
Exactly. It does no one any favours to act like crimes are discrete, individual events if they fall into a larger pattern or indicate problems endemic to a specific community. That just stifles serious attempts to rectify the problems, not to mention the public’s right to know about issues affecting their safety.
Amen John,
I am 4 hours from T.O. and I will not step foot in it. It has become balkanized and that is extremely dangerous. Everytime you read about the problems they are having they throw the race card in. It’s not that there are no white gangs out there, but the ones we hear about are coming into this country from the third world. They seem to be reckless and angry. I think they feel they can get away with almost anything. I believe that we should keep an eye on Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and watch what happens in the next 5 years – it’s not going to be pretty. Canadians will wake up then.
Dudley and jypsi ontario. This has turned into a good post. The comments have also been thoughtful and on the mark for the most part. I think we can thank northbaytrapper for this.
In this age of multiculturalism it is absolutely necessary to identify race when it comes to crime. And I agree that the “white” Russian gangs are a big problem, as are the old “mob” gangs. They were also mostly white weren’t they? They were just better run than the run of the mill street gangs of today.
I think that immigrants, white or otherwise, are allowed into this country to create a new life, better themselves and make our country better. I believe that they need to be sent back to their country or origin if they are part of a street gang and commit a serious crime with a firearm. We ignore this at our peril.
If our politicians and laws don’t deal with this issue then eventually reasonable men will. And that can turn into a bigger problem for everyone.
The reason that race was an issue is because, in the current political climate in TO, the race of the accused may have influenced the judge to be more lenient. And that is very relevant, important and scary.
The Liberals have been in power for 12 years. I’d wager that by now a good majority of the superior judiciary is liberal-appointed. They write the laws, they staff the senior courts (though not in the case of this JP, who was likely just following precedent of a senior court). The Fed govt also sets immigration policy. In what universe are they not responsible for the surge of violence in Toronto and other cities? Even if provincial court judges wanted to get tough, they are bound to the precedents of higher courts – courts which will simply overrule them if they get too frisky. And now they want to raise the nations’ children so that both parents can work long hours to eke out an after-tax living.
Here in Sask we have a homegrown problem with Native gangs, and its increasing every day. The current corrections system is nothing more than a training ground for new criminals. We need a government that does more than make election statements, we need one that will act and be committed to the solution.
More guns for Canada.
That’s all I have to say.
Holdfast, the Liberals have more or less been in power since Trudeau/Pearson back in the 60’s. This fine country started its slide into the crapper with Trudeau. We’re reaping the Trudeau harvest right now with these useless gun-toting creeps in the big smoke.
The Liberal vote matters more than the stability of our society. We’ve got 9mm proof.
I loved it when a few years back the TV stations in Toronto went through a phase of not identifying the race of a subject.
They’d broadcast things like this: “The suspect is male, wearing jeans and a t-shirt.”
That’s pretty helpful, eh?
jypsy ontario: “reckless and angry”…….I think it may be more of a Feeding Frenzy, like wild barracuda dumped into a salwater aquarium; these individuals are petty criminals, (the kingpins stay in the home countries where they control things), who are suddenly transformed into the meanest SOB’s in the valley.
Even domestic dogs will ‘pack up’ and go mad when near a field of sheep, and that’s what the Canadian citizenry is sheep….sheep for the slaughter.
I always find it ‘interesting’ when someone makes an accurate statement …the perp. was a black youth… (not, for example; a green female hispanic) they get lambasted for being racist. But try to point out that someone (President Bush for example) is really NOT a Nazi, baby killing liar and all that can be heard are the screams of their loss of freedoms to say such things. Maybe, someday, it will be more policically incorrect to lie than to tell the truth?
So Robo, what do we do about this mess. T.O. population is made up mainly of non-whites. We all know the problem with the voting is the G.T.A. We also are aware that the immigrant population vote Liberal. Remember the uproar in Que. when – what’s his name – put the blame on immigrants. Well he was right! The Libs keep inviting them in regardless of their background and they keep the Libs in power. What will it take for Canadians to take back their country. As it stands now we are going to lose it to the third world mentality. This is the power of Political Correctness. It keeps us from saying what we are thinking and acting on our beliefs. Toronto is balkanized – just look around and you can actually see it. It’s multiculuralism at its worse. They congregate in their own little communities – ignore the Canadian customs – dress as if they lived in the countries of origin – expect us to bow to their whims – want their own court systems – paid for school system – and on and on. Now – how do we stop this. If we were to move to their countries we have to accept their customs – cover our damn heads – and obey their archaic laws. If not – death to us. As it is going – maybe death to us if we do not bend to their ways. Do you believe that the CPC could actually change the course of events that will surely be the future. I don’t think so. The CPC doesn’t have the courage to go against this very powerful Political Correctness. Woe to us! The only hope we have is to keep our relationship strong with the powerhouse to the south. They are having their own problems at the moment with PC, but the population have more guts and guns than us and a large heaping of national pride which is missing here in Canada. I don’t believe their government would allow us to become the Balkans it would be too dangerous for them to live next door. That is where our hope lies – like it or not.
“I loved it when a few years back the TV stations in Toronto went through a phase of not identifying the race of a subject.
They’d broadcast things like this: “The suspect is male, wearing jeans and a t-shirt.”
That’s pretty helpful, eh?” –Mississauga Matt
I believe your thrust is a tad blunt. I have no problem nor would most folks with giving an accurate description of suspects so that they can be apprehended (and I agree that the TV stations during that period were a joke). What I have a HUGE problem with is courts allowing their decisions to be influenced by ethnicity.
“The reason that race was an issue is because, in the current political climate in TO, the race of the accused may have influenced the judge to be more lenient” –holdfast
Thank you holdfast for driving my point home. We cannot have ethnicity come into play. The law must be blind. We cannot accept the notion that “some animals are more equal that other animals.” Let’s join our collective energies and petition for crippling sentences for drug dealers, murderers and rapists no matter their race or religion.
The GTA is a right off, the NDP and Libs simply run a matching ethnic name to the ethnic ghetto they have created in every election and the dumb electorate eat it up.
Our entire media here is nonstop 24 / 7 liberal and NDP spin.
Forget about changing the GTA.
The most selfish racist coldest disconnected misinformed smug sheep in North America.
If there were a modicum of civl justice left in this nation, the “judge” who allowed this scum to go free on the street should forfeit his position and be ordered to pay life long income support to the family of the victim the miscreant he freed murdered.
Another glowing example of the fact there is no justice dispensed from the bench in Canada….mearlt policy and ideocratic “notions” are proffered from this new degenerated batch of jurocrats.
jypsy ontario: -Parizeau was his name.
What will it take? Beats me. Canadians have been inculcated for too long with the fantasy of an old, ‘one of each color please, girl-boy, girl-boy, alternate, alternate so everyone contrasts…big smiles now’ “I’d like to buy the world a Coke”, Coca Cola commercial.
“Reality is an optical delusion, children…….just keep repeating our mantra – Healthcare, Healthcare”.
Sorry – off on a tangent there.
I don’t believe anything will, or can, be done in this country until it hits bottom, and although many of us feel it’s just about there, I fear there’s still a long way down before it’s so dark that you won’t even be able to see who’s robbing you.
As long as the schools keep teaching that words, (the ‘correct’ words anyway), speak louder than actions, we’ll be in trouble.
Problem is, the parents of the kids being mis-taught, and their parents, are all from the same mold and can’t tell mold from mould.
the US? If it were possible at this moment, I’d be there now. I’ve spent a fair bit of time there, never felt threatened, never had a problem……and I LIKE the people.
You complain at the rigidness of words. Yet you complain when nobody listens to you.
Words are everything
jypsy wants to know how to change the voting pattern in Ontario….a good start would be taking a look at your words.
Those that throw ridiculous claims about like “blacks are the reason for all of the crime” infuriate not only the communities they label but also people like myself. I agree that crime is disproportionate to ethnicity. I am saying that there are problems that certain communities have to deal with instead of crying racism. I am saying that when you fling words about the room–like some on the ones I’m reading here–you’re perpetuating the “in-bred hick” lie that perpetuates the psyche of the people you are attacking.
For my opinion on why new immigrants vote Liberal and NDP….because most that come are starting out new and they want all of the social programmes that those parties offer. Those parties are also active in their communities. Check out the Bloc. They dried their crying eyes and are now courting the ethnic vote. Harper is doing the same. For those of you like the idea of living on your own little island, I think we may have found a way to lay claim to Hans Island…
Sorry for this long post, but here goes.
jypsi ontario. Vancouver is also balkanized. One non-english speaking community here, one non-english speaking community there, and the street gangs in the middle terrorizing everyone.
But I point out that it isn’t a race problem, it’s an ethnicity and religious problem. I know a Muslim professional in Vancouver, very successful and good citizen, who told me recently that he could take me to a mosque in the Lower Mainland where, if I remember correctly, 60% of those attending on any given day supported terrorism. This man is from Africa (not sure where exactly) and he said that if he visited Saudi Arabia he would get his head chopped off within 24 hours.
So, we need to be careful who we accuse. But I agree that immigration and especially multiculturalism is a disaster for Canada, as it is for America and the rest of western society. A total disaster. Look at France and Germany as to examples. There are many examples all over the world.
Political correctness is really the big issue here in my opinion. If politicians are not prepared to call a spade a spade this problem will never be solved. And the Canada we grew up in will be lost for good. Political correctness is the disease that allowed multiculturalism to flourish in the first place. If a few good men or women with guts and a love for their country had stood up when multiculturalism reared it’s ugly head it would have gone nowhere.
This problem will have to be faced at some point or the Canada we grew up to love will be dead. It’s on life support now in my opinion. I think that what this country needs at this time are a few good men or women to stand up and deal with it. It would be better if some of those were politicians with clout than citizens with guns. But either way it will have to be done in my opinion.
The first thing is to elect a CPC and kill the gun law. Then set up several inquiries to look into the Liberal Party’s corruptness over the last several years. Then perhaps Canadians will be made to realize what they’ve done.
If not then it’s going to be up to a few good men in the street to deal with it. That will be tough.
“Let’s join our collective energies and petition for crippling sentences for drug dealers, murderers and rapists no matter their race or religion.”
I totally agree. But lets call them what they are. We need to identify the enemy because he walks among us. I’m part Irish and part Indian. I don’t mind at all when people point out that the problem with gangs in Saskatchewan is an Indian problem. These gang members are Indian. What the hell else would you call them? I don’t want a judge to look the other way and ignore that.
There are problems in the Indian community across Canada and it begins with Indian Affairs. IA is a disaster. I will NEVER have any dealings with Indian Affairs. Talk about racism. And don’t forget, I am a man of Indian heritage talking here. I know several other Indians who feel the same way. The Indian nation is a proud nation. But they are not free. Just ask their leaders, at least those who are not on the take.
I digress here to show that the same thing will happen to any community that becomes balkanized. Many Canadian cities have become balkanized communities because of multiculturalism and political correctness. And therein lies the problem in my opinion.
OK Trapper, I did not use the term black. Multiculturism or better hyphenated Canadians, seem to be voting Liberal. If for the reasons you stated – then we do have a problem. We’ve allowed all this to happen. It started with Trudeau and it will continue until we put an end to it. Now, tell me how we change this. Proportional representation may be one solution. Line our House up like New Zealand. Stop Gov. from electing our Senate and for that matter our judges. Allow freedom of speech once again in this nation. Not going to happen under a Liberal Government.
One more thing Trapper, I for one would love to see the GTA become it’s own sovereign nation. Then maybe we can get back to basics.
This is a complicated issue. There is the issue of organized crime inbedded in ethnic communities but the bigger problem is the corruption at the top that in the end allows it. Tougher laws would mean the big boys could get nabbed also (re:Coffin )The courts and police need an overhaul but who would have enough power and courage to go after them ?
RCMP -Junior officers complain that when they try to investigate mob control of our ports senior officers block them, some to the point where they have to go into witness protection.
-Chretien tells them to stop an investigation into Shiwanigate (nice when the suspect runs the investigation)
How many senior mob bosses, politicians, government officials, police etc… are doing serious time ?
I could go on forever. Solution, dont know but I do notice that in the US senior CEO’s, mob etc… are doing time and there is an unending congressional investigation into a lot of powerful groups. Bush couldnt even get his nominee for Supreme court confirmed. Maybe elected judges at the lower level and long involved confirmation hearings for the Supreme court involving all parties is something to look at. What about all party type congressional investigations into our police forces. I just fear that its too late, that our system is so corrupt these are no longer an option.
Thankyou for your comments John, I totally agree. We allowed all this to happen. It’s definitly Political Correctness that is at the root of this complete problem. Had we not had Multiculturalism then our population would’ve just melted into Canada. They came here for a better life – just as my Irish ancestors did in the early 1800’s. What are we offering them – a future much like the one they left behind. I believe this is not that far off in the future if we do not stop it soon. I believe in freedom of religion, also freedom of speech. I do not believe in preaching hatred from pulpits or trying to change us into something that is foreign to our way of life. It is a sad future I see for Canada. Yes, I will vote CPC and then wait and see.
jypsi ontario. If it becomes necessary to reduce Canada to the size of one province to save it then so be it. If necessary I will work toward that end. Canada is more than just Ottawa.
I want also to stress that this is not a liberal vs conservative problem. Look at Blair and bush. They both recognized the dangers of international, state-sponsored terrorism and acted. One is conervative and one is liberal. So it wasn’t a political decision on their part.
The problem in Canada is the Liberal Party of Canada. I also believe that the power structure behind it, as in America, could care less about their country. Their obsession is with their bottom line and their burgeoning bank accounts. These are the same fabulously wealthy families that are also behind the UN, CDC, FDA, Kyoto, Oil-for-Food, etc. The list is a long one. Their objective is to establish a one world government, with them at the top of course. The first thing that is necessary to control a population is to take their means of defence away. The Gun Law is what that is all about. It has nothing to do with curtailing crime.
If one wants to find out who these families are then just follow the money. Do some research into the boards of directors of the multinational energy corporations, pharmaceutical corporations and world banks. The same names keep popping up. If you continue you will soon see that many of these people are connected, by blood or marriage, to these same rich families I refer to above. I don’t believe in coincidences.
The problem is a serious one and goes very deep.
I agree in the melting pot theory as opposed to the mosaic plan. Here’s the problem, you say that immigrants keep to themselves and do not take on Canadian values.
In the span of one generation you will see most of these problems rectified. If you want to make it easier for immigrants to be Canadian then treat them as such.
I agree that some immigrants come from societies where crime has become a way of life and that these values are brought with them. I agree that the immigrant base is poorly distributed across the country. I would like to see more immigrants landing on the prairies and in Northern Ontario. Please remember that the crime rate in Toronto is lower than Montreal, Regina, Vancouver and Calgary . There are less black people in Calgary so it must be a white problem. Hopefully you see my point.
Are there bad people who are immigrants? You betcha. Are there fantastic people who immigrants? You betcha. For those people that have trouble accepting this reality…you are the fringe and no one will ever take you seriously.
I always find it interesting when some people attack a man’s character when everything else fails. I’m not on the fringe and I’m not in the minority. Get your head out of the sand.
I know several immigrants and not one who disagrees with me on this issue. One is a specialist at VGH and I depend on him for my health. He speaks fluent English and agrees with my position. In fact he brought it up to me right after 9/11. Another is a chap who immigrated about three years ago and is presently working with a group of concerned citizens in Vancouver who are tying to clean up their streets and stop the drug dealing and home invasions that plague the area. Good for him. He understands what the problem is. Too bad you don’t.
As for immigrants who refuse to accept Canadian values they will not, I repeat, not, ever, meld in to the Canadian society in my opinion. A good example is the Sharia law that some Muslims want to impose on all of us. They had Ontario politicians fooled for awhile didn’t they?
You can wait a generation if you want to. Me, I want immigrants who commit crimes with guns sent back to their country or origin upon conviction, as soon as they’ve served their sentence.
Canada has given these people a chance at improving their lives and building a better future for themselves. Let them show Canada respect by their actions. The ones who don’t and who commit crimes need to be singled out and treated accordingly. You can’t do that without identifying their nationality.
Sure you can.
How?
The ones that commit crimes go to jail.
I just want to clarify some things as well because I fear that you have taken my comments personally. My post was not directed at you, rather, it was an open letter to everyone.
“I always find it interesting when some people attack a man’s character when everything else fails. I’m not on the fringe and I’m not in the minority. Get your head out of the sand.”
My comments stated that if you believe that all members of a race are good or bad then you are on the fringe. You mentioned two individuals who were immigrants and assets to our society, so my comments did not apply to you. You are not on the fringe. The purpose of the last few lines of my post was to say that people who think that all of one race are a certain way–in order words racists–are a thin minority and their views will never gain traction again.
Others have said some imflammatory things in my mind “all” and “only” etc…I understand that they are speaking in anger and that most of them if not all are not racists, however, their careless use of language muddies that fact.
My post about Calgary having a higher crime rate was my attempt to put the crime problem in perspective.
I hope this post allays your concerns.
northbaytrapper. Good back and forth. I didn’t take your comments personally. But all I can talk about are my personal experiences. Everything else is second hand at best.
I think we agree on everything other than the fact that, perhaps, we don’t agree on my idea of identifying criminals. So we agree to disagree.
Your first line perhaps illustrates our differences. “The ones that commit crimes go to jail.” My point is that, if they are recent immigrants and have committed a serious crime, including with a firearm and drug dealing, and of course, murder, they need to “go to jail” and then back to where they came from. I don’t want them living next door to me, my family or my friends. Our law and courts have enough to do dealing with home grown criminals without importing more.
I don’t think you would disagree with this, would you?
This post is getting long in the tooth and we’re probably the only two still visiting it. So, thanks for a great discussion and back and forth. Reminds me of when I was a young artist in Calgary and used to meet with other artists, poets, politicians and even a couple Rabbis for a Friday afternoon of discussions and opinion sharing. I think we actually started the sidewalk cafe thing in Calgary at that time. One hot afternoon we just picked up our chairs and a few tables and went out to the sidewalk where it was cooler.
A poet might recite a couple of their latest poems, an artist often brought sketches of areas they visited, as I did several times. Politicians might talk about things like money management and perhaps the next election. And both Rabbis talked about, can you guess, art. Always art. Never religion.
I miss those Friday afternoons.
Careful John lest we guess your age.
We do agree on everything. I would agree with your last point as well….will one caveat….we ask them where they are from for the purpose of deporting them, not determining if they need to be deported.
and…yup…just us in here.
/crickets
I think knowing the race of criminals is important to understanding the root causes. However, it does have some drawbacks.I personally would not find myself in the presence of a crowd of black youths on the streets of Toronto. Also after Adscam, I am alot more skiddish about politicians whose surnames reflect French or Italian heritage. Does this make me a bigot or just rational? Are my fears grounded in prejudice or science(statistics).I’m really not sure.
John, what you are saying is we have a shadow government led by these power corporations and family money that plan to head up a one world government. This group is behind the Liberal Party? I am sooooo glad I am coming to an end rather than just starting out. If this be the case then there seems to be no point as to which government we elect because nothing will stop this machine from rolling over us. Some nights (when sleep escapes me) I listen to Coast to Coast – Art Bell) they often discuss this subject. I have never been much for conspiracy theories, but maybe there is something to this.
It’s time I put my efforts into study and get a better picture of it. Not that my knowledge will change a thing, but enlightment never hurts. Other than voting Conservative and getting these guns laws changed I don’t know what else can be done. Anyways it’s been a good discussion – a little heated at times but nice to follow others thoughts on this mess.
Well this debate isn’t even close to over – Global just announced this morning (Dec. 8/05) that Martin is going to make some sort of handgun announcement by noon today. The obvious thing will be too take handguns away from law abiding citizens that have taken the time to abide by the law.
Hey, you idiots, there is no Russian gangs or Mafia. This all is crap made by your television/newspaper. All those who you call Russian gangs/mafia are Jews or Caucasian, some of them speak Russian, but that doesnt mean that they are Russian. Real Russians who come to the west don’t do crimes they want to live without crime thats why they came here. Than second of all i think the first place who take in racism are you blacks/jews and asians. When you are not taken to work by a white employer you go and sue him for racism, but you dont think that he didnt take you because you dont know nothing. Than you say that just jamaicans or somalis comit crimes thats not true all black comit crimes i work in a shoping mall and everiday there are black custumers, you know no one of them buys anything but second day they come to return something and they say that they lost or didnt get the check. I think that first you black should first study maners than talk about racist the only racist is the one which you see when you look in the miror!