Greg Staples has a translation from a reader on remarks that needs to get some legs in the western Canadian media. FAST.
…”I don’t think anyone can transform Quebec’s economy without government help,” stated Jean Lapierre. “I think the government will have to be extremely active.” Alberta’s prosperity could even be called upon, suggested the minister.”The federal government has the duty to be a real partner, especially since as a government we benefit from the West’s wealth,”he stressed.”So we have to redistribute the wealth. After all, the good fortune of the West could become a disaster for the East. That is why we need a pact that will allow us to even things out.”
This is the latest of a series of similar news stories and opinions published in the past few days.
If they keep this up, the Separation Party of Alberta will need to make twice daily runs to deposit the membership cheques.
As Licia Corbeil wrote in today’s Calgary Sun when all those other governments have closed hosiptals and accept the 45 minute school bus rides for their kids and all the other draconian cuts Alberta made 10 years ago we might talk about sharing the wealth. It’s not like the Oil revenue just flowed in and we got out of debt. The oil revenue helped but we still have long waiting list for medical services. We still have beaten up highways that need the money. Alberta has lots of catching up to do to spend all the now available cash.
I am getting so so so tired of reading the daily papers and hearing this nonsense. Alberta has to share their wealth – as though we don’t already. Exactly where did the federal government get a 10B surplus. Maybe Ontario has a beef about too much money being sucked out of their economy but as someone else blogged last week – that’s the penalty for electing crooks and morons.
As for Quebec – enough money get sucked into that bottomless pit already. Maybe they should start charging tuition at Universities. The average tuition paid at UofC is $3000.00 per semester. Maybe if Hydro Quebec funds were included in the Equalization formula they would get even less. Listening to a province that has consistently done nothing but beg for more and more and consistently get it is a bit galling.
Spoken like a true Librano, no surprise here y’all move along now.
You’ll find by using the Google translate tools that the feds say one thing in English and another in French. The big difference is what is said in French is the true intention of the liberals. I know this is a bit off topic, but I posted on the Shotgun about the magazine possiably hosting forums on Western seperation in the four provinces. I think Kate would be a great guest at one, or all of them. Just a thought.
This a typical Quebec Libranos situation. Regarding Ontario’s position – following is a quote by Dalton McGuinty from an article in today’s National Post (it’s a pay site so I’ve excerpted a fair bit of the article).
“Ontario does not covet Alberta�s oil surplus, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Tuesday. It�s Ottawa�s money he�s after.”
“Our issue is not with the province of Alberta,” the Ontario premier told reporters Tuesday. “We are generating all the wealth we need in Ontario. I�m just saying to the federal government: allow us to retain more of our wealth so that we can invest it in better schools, better universities, better colleges, better apprenticeship programs, better health care, more roads, more bridges – the foundation for a growing economy.”
“The comments were McGuinty�s first since Alberta Premier Ralph Klein last week warned him and Prime Minister Paul Martin to keep “your hands off” his province�s surging oil and gas revenues.”
http://www.canada.com/search/story.html?id=009c3a72-f59d-4782-88f3-0cea70609635
Dalton McGuinty has absolutely zero credibilty when it comes to the truth. Don’t believe a word he or his government say.
I laughed at all the simpletons that voted for him here after he dropped the ‘health levy’ on us. If it hadn’t hit me so hard in the pocketbook I would have laughed much louder.
Him and his federal ilk are human fodder. Lying, stinking garbage.
So my fellow Ontarians will probably re-elect them all… Sorry western Canada. I have only one vote.
Maybe, just maybe they who vote for the Dark Side are finally starting to see the light
This is primarily boiler plate and at most indicates the current Liberal desire to foster an image of smart interventionism.
Maybe thus new GG will help us, this Jean lady: didn’t she toast to “no more exploited peoples” or some such thing? We should appeal to her to help us from getting further over-taxed and under-represented by our oppressors from the Belle mf’ing province. Someone should appeal to her, fast! We need help, jean lady!
Im good looking and I will be on t.v. tomorrow.
Hows that you ask?
I will be holding the sign that says PMPM wants albertas money.
PMPM will be at Calgarys 100 birthday bash tomorrow downtown and with a sign like that I will be on the evening news.
I am really disgusted. The presumptuous arrogance of these criminals in Ottawa is plainly clear at this point. The west is a joke to them. They use Alberta’s revenue to buy votes in Quebec and the east, so that the LPC and their business interests can remain in power. They are blindingly unaware that if they keep pushing, this country will go off the rails, and it won’t be Alberta that will get hurt.
They have clearly underestimated the west. It is just waking up, one foot on the floor, about to stand up. When a craven, disgusting, and arrogant SOB demonstrates smirking certainty that he can take whatever liberties he wants, well…
There’s a few country songs that point to an inevitably different ending than the one that these ponces want.
I don’t know, do you think Calgary can out boo PMPM, like Edmonton did to Screecher?
Interestng how fast these people can become federalists.
Rob, as an Edmontonian, I hope Calgary can out-boo Edmonton. Martin and the LPC have shown pure contempt for the west. He has no business being here on the occasion of our one hundredth birthday. As Ezra Levant (who is fast becoming our own Henry Armstrong) wrote today, in a great column in the National Post:
“(The) condescension (of the Liberals towards the West) works if the goal is to paint the West as the ‘other’ against which proper Canadians must unite. But it doesn’t work if the new and urgent task is to convince Westerners to abandon a plan for independence…”
In other words, the Liberals remain in power by telling Quebec and Ontario how proud they should be that they are real Canadians instead of Westerners. If there was ever a scheduled public appearance in the history of this country that deserves an overwhelming, drowning-out booing, it is PMPM’s appearance in Calgary for Alberta’s 100th birthday.
Come on Calgary, let’s hear you. Send a message to the LPC.
I looked up Lapierre’s article and used Google to translate the entire story to get a better sense for the context of the remarks. It seems that he’s adovcating that the feds should “redistribute” Alberta’s wealth to better enable Quebec industry to compete with the Chinese market. He seems to say that Quebec’s factories are closing down, which is bad for liberal election prospects, because they cannot compete with China. “Redistributing” Alberta’s wealth to enable Quebec companies to meet the “economic challenge of diversification, modernization, research and of development” is Lapierre’s solution. So in summary … the feds pillage Alberta to prop up non-viable Quebec businesses, thereby buying Quebec votes for the Liberals, so that Quebec companies can compete with Chinese competition. Charming. Sounds like a typical Liberal sting operation alright. My only question is whether I like the sound of the Republic of Alberta better, or Assiniboia. I’m kind of fond of Assiniboia, especially if Saskatchewan would like to be our partner in secession.
Oh come on people, surely you can tell this is just a bunch if blather for domestic consumption in Quebec. The Liberals are gonna get creamed in Quebec no matter what this clown says.
Criminals, all of them. I say to you: Get out while the going’s good. What are they going to do to keep you here if you really make up your mind to go?
McGuinty’s beef is with Ottawa, not Alberta. Whether he is a liar or not doesn’t automagically change the fact that Ontario’s $23 Billion Confederation Tax is an Ottawa thingie, not an Alberta thingie.
The CPC is poised to defeat the Liberals in Ontario – don’t believe the MSM Gainsburger to the contrary. The Liberals have given up on Eastern Ontario and Western Quebec (see: Liberal campaign platform including 40,000 civil service layoffs, among other hints).
The Liberals know this, know they are dead in Alberta, and I suspect they are attempting to divide and conquer The Conservative Movement by playing Ontario Conservatives off of Alberta Conservatives. Which is a fun little evil game to play for Herle & Co., but I just don’t see how the hell the Liberals hope to win anything close to the number of seats they have now, even assuming they steal public money to cheat in this election like they did in the last two elections.
The Ontario government’s website sez it all:
“No group identifies more closely with Canada than Ontarians. We�re proud Canadians, and proud to contribute to the well-being of other Canadians. Our government�s plan is to strengthen Ontario�s economy by investing in the education, skills, health and prosperity of our people. . . . ”
Add to that : “with the cash we take from those oil-soaked Albertan Orcs”.
http://www.strongontario.ca/english/
Thought that would shake up the hornet’s nest.
Lyle B,
You do realize that was exactly Trudeau’s strategy regarding Alberta’s oil wealth in the 1970s that culminated in the 1980 NEP?! The point about using the oil wealth to create secondary manufacturing, particularly in struggling areas of Quebec (and some parts of Ontario), was supported by the Liberals and the NDP of the day. Looks like nothing has changed.
I tried to post on Lapierre’s words last nite with a Shotgun link, but apparently couldn’t, as the “please wait- crazy people are causing trouble” message kept coming up. No biggie. Kate sees the importance of Lapierre’s words too.
My point: if Paulie doesn’t quickly distance himself from Lapierre and denounce his declarations, then we have PROOF OF A LIBERAL HIDDEN AGENDA TO IMPLEMENT COMMUNISM IN CANADA.
Fellow Conservatives: use this as much as possible against the Liberals. We want to win, after all.
Amongst all the noise, heat and light here, there sees to be a failure to recognize that any country is fully entitled to use the wealth from its “have” regions to assist the “have-not” regions.
This is a standard procedure for most countries in the West. Better-off US states certainly contribute tax dollars to support less fortunate ones. England pays for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. Rich EU countries subsidize Ireland, Portugal, Greece and others like them.
Presumably even within the province of Alberta, residents in wealthier areas foot the bill for those in poorer ones.
That’s the real world.
So putting aside all the grumbling here, Alberta’s wealth is Canada’s as is the real (or potential) wealth of all our other provinces and territories.
No, the thing I find most revealing about what Lapierre is saying is not so much the simple truth (that “haves” pay for “have-nots”) but his saying it in a way that embodies the admission of two realities.
The first is the rather shameful acknowledgement that Qu�bec has indeed become a “have-not” province along the lines of the Maritimes.
Here is the largest province in the country, with vast potential wealth from abundant natural resources, hydro-electricity and agriculture, with a well-educated and skilled workforce – and it can’t make a lousy buck out of it all.
Years of dilettantism over the French language, sovereignty and “ma�tres chez nous” have led to this: a declining population and a declining economic future.
How hath the mighty fallen.
The other reality is that Alberta is moving in the other direction: the population is increasing and the economy is ascending.
And finally of course, the Liberals are as delusional as ever. No amount of “government money” (ie, our taxes) will ever turn Qu�bec around. A ton of government money has not turned the Maritimes around.
Government money might artificially smooth out the process of decline long enough for politicians to win the next election but it can’t stop that decline if it has become institutional.
As it seems to have become in Qu�bec.
I understand your points, JJM, but while it’s reasonable to “help out” other jurisdictions within a federation, it is way out of line what’s going on today and has been for a while.
What’s happening is that the “have-nots” in Canada aren’t yet even trying seriously enough to become “haves”. I recently explained how this is the case in New Brunswick, where I’ve resided since ’78. Same applies to Quebec, where the economy is heavily weighted, as in Sask and Ont, towards the little-productive civil “service”. They are comfortably addicted to equalization.
What’s disturbing about this development wrt Lapierre’s declaration is that it belies that the have-nots are now greedily eyeing Alberta’s rightfully skyrocketing earnings with a view to stealing enough of it so as to keep Alberta from being a master in its own house.
It’s not Alberta’s fault that the ROC doesn’t have the culture of entrepreneurship, the work ethic and doctrine of basic self-sufficiency of Alberta. Alberta already contributes more than its fair, constitutional share to the have-nots and Ottawa keeps ever-amassing surpluses for the purpose of re-electing the Liberal mob.
I submit that rather than confiscating Alberta’s newfound good, fair, legal fortune, Ottawa should look at its own surplus as born of excessive, confiscatory taxation to give an efficient hand-up to the have-nots in the form of drastically slashed taxes of all sorts. No way will greedy old Paulie do the right thing. He’d rather resort to the evil of communism.
Redistribution beyond that already constitutionally established is NOT the answer. Ask Stephen Harper what the answer is. He understands, including the hisrorical reality of the Maritimes’ decline due to originally unnecessary, disproportionate, excessive handouts via UIC to people that robbed them of the incentive towards hard work, initiative and self-sufficiency.
JUST SAY NO TO COMMUNISM AND TO THE LIBRANOS.
Re-reading your post, JJM, I realize that our positions are actually pretty close. Funny how it takes the brain a little while to wake up first thing in the AM, isn’t it?
If your going to boo Paulie, you might want to throw some meadow muffins his way too.
I recall how Trudeau’s percieved leadership qualities rose when he refused to leave when Quebecers threw rocks at his seat during the “feet national” parade.
Imagine the effect of meek dithering Paulie running for cover when confronted by western separatism.
Redistribution of Alberta’s wealth will only hurt Alberta’s competitiveness in the long term….we can’t let the Libranos succeed in the grab. It will only allow people to remain in areas (provinces) propped up by this redistribution when they should be coming out to work in Alberta.
We have a severe shortage of good people needed to work here in Alberta, and everyone willing and able can quite easily find a job. And then we will see further spinoffs from having more people employed and living in the market that will drive the Canadian economy.
Come on out the weather’s fine!!!
“It’s not Alberta’s fault that the ROC doesn’t have the culture of entrepreneurship, the work ethic and doctrine of basic self-sufficiency of Alberta.”
Easy now, Stephen. Alberta’s wealth has as much to do with entrepreneurship, the work ethic and doctrine of basic self-sufficiency as Saudi Arabia’s does.
Alberta’s wealth is result of oil and not some set of mystical, instrinsic virtues that set them apart from other Canadians.
Without that oil patch underneath it, there’s no reason to believe Albertans would be any better off than folks in say, Saskatchewan.
(other) Doug:
“I will be holding the sign that says PMPM wants albertas money.
PMPM will be at Calgarys 100 birthday bash tomorrow downtown and with a sign like that I will be on the evening news.”
Don’t bet on it. So if you REALLY want to get on the evening news and your sign doesn’t work, try this sign:
Alberta = Red Neck Right Wing Fascist Christians hoarding MY money.
-or-
Ralph Klein doesn’t believe in the sanctity of the “Canadian way” of redistributing wealth to pay for the proper indoctrination–er–education of Quebec students.
Better yet, write it in French.
“Man can not live by oil alone.”
$70+/barrel oil will not be with us forever. But Greed will.
Gee odd isn’t it that Alberta for years was disparaged and ignored….then one day oil is dicovered and suddenly the federal government is arguing that the wealth that Alberta invested time and energy to create needs to be sent east to prop up Quebec industry so those industries don’t relocate in the west.
Why does the liberal party still deny what everyone else see’s very very very plainly. If industries move out of central Canada and into the west, the population follows. An increas in population means an increase in MP’s in the HoC. Conversely, it should also mean a reduction in MP’s where the population is decreasing.
The fact is Quebec and Ontario would experience an exodus to the west, which would shift political power away from the traditional center….where its stubbornly clung since pre-confederation.
Time for a change. The liberals should stop trying to hang on to the past and embrace the future, that future is Alberta and its politics.
Get used to it.
The Liberal MSM attack against Alberta is well under way. We have the above article from Quebec, which, as has been pointed out, despite its own natural resources, remains a have-not province – primarily because of its own incompetence and socialism..and because it has deliberately set up its industries to function only within massive federal subsidies.
Now, in today’s G&M, there’s an article about the centennial celebrations in Alberta and Sask. Alberta is being defined through the whole article as selfish, greedy..while Sask is collaborative..etc, etc. Below are quotes from the article. Except to see a lot more like this in the next months.
“They are extremely different,” said Ms. Manners, 66, who lives on the Saskatchewan side. “Saskatchewan’s history is co-operation and reaching out to others. Alberta’s attitude is: Make money, drill oil wells, make money, drill oil wells.”
“Because the Saskatchewan government gave Ms. Manners’s group $40,000 for its centennial party and Alberta handed over nothing, the festivities will be held Sunday on the Saskatchewan side of the border, even though about 66 per cent of Lloydminster residents live in Alberta. ”
“While Alberta’s economy is leading the country, and is triple that of Saskatchewan, the Conservative government chose to spend the bulk of its $400-million centennial money on dozens of “legacy” projects, such as upgrades to theatres, museums and parks.
Its slogan: “Celebrate our past. Imagine our future.”
Saskatchewan’s NDP government went the opposite direction. About $40-million of the approximately $160-million flagged for its centennial is going to souvenirs and thousands of year-long celebrations and events, including a tourism push to attract legions of expats to return for a visit. The rest will be used for capital projects.
Its slogan: “100 years of heart.”
Alberta Separtist or Quebec Separtist are both pissing in the wind.Their rhetoric is on the verge of hate mongering and does little or nothing to resolve the bigger issues at stake.
I am a true blue conservative that loathes any social leftist party such as the Liberals and NDP,however they have the skill to manipulate the media as the conservatives are always attacking.
Alberta has followed a very strict fiscal policy and should be given credit for their politics.
The oil fields have reaped Alberta great rewards and the foreign owned companies even more.
Should Alberta help the have not provinces ,yes,however this must come with very strict terms
under Alberta’s rules not the federal Liberals.
Fiscal responsiblity must be the major requirement to acquire any of the wealth so that the money isn’t thrown away.This only this will give Alberta the clout to it deserves.
By the way, speaking of redistribution of Albera’s money out of Alberta—>Quebec, what does Lapierre have to say about Quebec’s subsidizing of francophone university students?
Remember, Quebec isn’t self-sufficient – and deliberately not self-sufficient; it wants federal money. So, it takes our money and uses it for its own agendas.
One of these, is to foster its ties within francophone countries. Quebec university tuitions are the lowest in N. America. The lowest in Canada. A Quebec student pays HALF of what a student pays elsewhere in Canada. That’s subsidized by the ROC.
BUT – in Quebec, if you are a student from the ROC, then – you have to pay TWICE the fee of a Quebec student. In the ROC, if you are out of province – you don’t pay extra; you are Canadian; that’s all that counts.
Not in Quebec. You pay the low fee ONLY if you are francophone. AND, AND…if you are an international student in Quebec, you pay FOUR times the fee that Quebec students pay. Except for one important difference. If you are a student from a francophone country – e.g. France, Belgium , Haiti etc..then, you don’t pay the international tuition rate. You don’t pay the ROC tuition rate. No – you pay the lowest rate, the Quebec rate.
So, the ROC is subsidizing Quebec’s dev’t of links with francophone countries…while Quebec ignores and rejects its links with the ROC.
As for Quebec entrepreneurship vs that of Alberta – it DOES make a difference. Alberta’s wealth is not simply because it has sat, passively, on oil. It has, itself, developed this oil and has, above all, developed the many industries that benefit from a wealthy country; namely – secondary industries that are self-organized, self-developed in Alberta.
Quebec rejects entrepreneurship. Their population, controlled completely by socialist unions, has an ideology that someone else comes in to set up the industry..and they will work there..as long as their jobs are union protected, guaranteed for life, extensive benefits, no firings for incompetence etc.
So- before the ‘Quiet Revolution’, the only businesses that could be set up in Quebec were done by the English; the Quebecer saw himself only as a worker. Same thing now – except that the evil anglophones have been switched to The Federal Gov’t..which comes in and sets up the tax protected business. And foreign countries. Remember Wal-Mart? Quebec insisted that it unionize. When Wal-Mart simply moved out – Quebec was very angry; after all- the function of Wal-Mart was to provide jobs-for-Quebecers.
Instead of setting up their own ‘Like Wal-Mart’ – what was the Quebec response??? The mayor said that – they’d get ‘Sears’ or Zellers’ to come in. Again – it’s that focus on someone else coming in, providing the money, the investment, taking the risks, building the infrastructure…all at their cost. And Quebecers will just move in and insist on permanent no-risk, no-thought, no-sweat jobs.
Alberta deserves its wealth. It’s not just luck.
gimbol:
“The fact is Quebec and Ontario would experience an exodus to the west, which would shift political power away from the traditional center….where its [sic] stubbornly clung since pre-confederation.”
Er, not quite. You should check your history.
One reason that the colonies of New Brunswick, PEI and Nova Scotia displayed considerable hesitancy in hitching up with Canada West/Upper Canada and Canada East/Lower Canada is that they weren’t sure they wanted to be joined up with these two losers and their colonial debts.
After all, the Maritime colonies were the booming concern back then: lumber, fishing and shipbuilding.
How times change.
I heard the Adler interview with Ezra Levant and he made an excellent argument for NEP2 with all the foreshadowing rhetoric and preparations being put in place to raid Alberta’s exclusive constitutional jurisdictions and their revenue streams. Don’t ever put this past Martin. Kyoto was implemented with this very purpose in mind…Wake up!
As an Albertan I’m not so angered by the eastern political hacks and their robin-hood-cum-Marxist wealth redistribution, but the fact they equate this with proper and traditional confederalism.
This confederation was not founded nor constituted as a Marxist redistributor of revenues from individuals and their private property and productivity(all government revenues come from these 2 sources)…nor was it created to disregard the constitutional sovereignty of the provinces to control their own fortunes within right of section 92A of the BNA act.
When I see numerous federal political hacks spouting Marxist platitudes to Quebecers and Ontarians in an attempt to broker power for their party at the expense of Alberta and Canada’s constitutional confederacy, I’m prepared to put separatists in the seats of my legislature to take me out of this abusive corruption of Canadian confederalism.
JJM
“Alberta’s wealth is result of oil and not some set of mystical, instrinsic virtues that set them apart from other Canadians.”
This statement obviously is somewhat true but mostly false. Alberta’s wealth is somewhat due to oil but is mostly due to the entrepreneurship and fiscal responsibility that sets Albertans apart from other provinces. In the ’50s Albertans needed to go outside of Canada to obtain the capital necessary to start an oil industry. That is entrepreneurship without which the oil industry would be a fraction of its size, like say in B.C. or Saskatchewan. Alberta proactively went out and negotiated the necessary resource agreements with the feds.
Also in Alberta, we have been willing to accept harsh cutbacks in medicare and education more than a decade ago so that today we are debt free. The price oil made us debt free a few years early but it is the entrepreneurship of Albertans that make us what it is. Does Alberta need to diversify – like building Westjet, building the Canadian Western Bank, and attracting CP Rail and other industries. Certainly every province can seek to diversify.
Well duh, I guess I should go get some more oil that’s bubbling up in my back yard.
Gimbol
Re: “… Alberta for years was disparaged and ignored….then one day oil is dicovered and suddenly the federal government is arguing that the wealth that Alberta invested time and energy to create needs to be sent east to prop up Quebec industry so those industries don’t relocate in the west.”
It’s interesting how times change. After oil was discivered in Alberta and brought on stream in the 1950’s, it couldn’t compete with cheap international (in Canada’s case, Venezuelan oil).
The Canadian government in 1961 instituted the National Oil Policy that required areas west of the Ottawa river (i.e. Ontario) to purchase more expensive Alberta oil thereby subsidizing that industry. The refineries in Montreal, where I grew up, received their oil from Venezuela via a pipeline through Maine I believe. From the attached article:
“The federal government adopted the NOP to guarantee a Canadian market for expanded Western oil production. East of the Ottawa Valley, Canadians were supplied with cheap imported oil from the Middle East and Venezuela. West of the Ottawa Valley, Canadians were supplied with Western Canadian oil. At that time, American quotas existed on seaborne oil imports, but Canadian and Mexican overland shipments were exempt from this sanction. This artificially pushed up the price of oil in the United States above the world price. Since Western producers could export oil to the United States overland and receive the American domestic price, Canadians west of the Ottawa Valley were required to pay the higher United States price.”
Some people have short memories. BTW – I most certainly don’t support any form of a renewed NEP but let’s set the record straight. Alberta’s prosperity is directly linked to OPEC and the world price of oil. They didn’t get a surplus of $7 billion by working their asses off like the Koreans, Japanese or residents of Singapore – none of whom have any natural resources.
http://canadianeconomy.gc.ca/english/economy/1961National_Oil_Policy.html
Lloydminster is the quintessential example of how Alberta’s wealth is not simply due to “oil”. Lloyd is an energy city, straddling the border of Saskatchewan.
I invite everyone from central and eastern Canada to simply shut their mouths, and drive out to Lloydminster to see precisely how differing governmental policy, attitude and taxation affect economic development – all other factors being equal.
I have a question for Sheila ansd all the other Libral sycophants who support jurisdiction raiding of Alberta’s sovereign revenue streams:
Where exactly in the constitution does it state that:
A)Provinces must support each other financially
B) Alberta’s resources are not theirs
c) that a province MUST engage in Marxist wealth redistribution
I scowered the constitution last night after I heard these statements and I see niothing in the constitution that gives any other government in Canada a claim on Alberta’s “exclusive” constitutional revenue systems…just as Alberta has no claim on how Ontario makes revenues.
Our constitution made the provinces SOVEREIGN over their resources and gave them carte blanche revenue streams to fund their exclusive jurisdictional responsibilities. The British “commonwealth” concept was a system of political and trade cooperation between sovereign states and NOT a forced marxist wealth redistribution scheme. Our provinces are rich in natural and human resources…it is the height of incivility and immorality for governments who have mismanaged and squandered their resources and revenues to make claims on governments who have judiciously managed their resources and finances….the reason the recent oil boom has made surpus revenues in Alberta is BECAUSE THEY HVE NO DEBT!!! If they had the debt that Ontario and Quebec have run up with foolish mismanagement, they would have no surplus. The proper, constitutional and civil thing for Onatrio and Quebec to do is not whine to the Feds they want Alberta’s wealth to fund their disasterous debt ridden governments, but resolve that they will pay down their debts so their revenues become surplus like Alberta did.
Give your heads a shake and act like constitutionally responsible Canadians in a proper and civil confederal relationship….you speak like Marx’s bastard children.
“….the reason the recent oil boom has made surpus revenues in Alberta is BECAUSE THEY HVE NO DEBT!!!”
That’s a darn good point. And after my family and other Albertans have gone through the sacrifices in education and health care that were required to achieve that debt free status, I’m be damned if I’ll put up with the feds coming along and pinching our purse to subsidize non-viable Eastern businesses.
Kate, being from up in Lloyd myself, I must say, you’re bang on.
There’s a reason that 2/3 (or more) of the people live on the Alberta side…and it isn’t insurance rates.
And there oil doesn’t stop flowing suddenly on the Sask side of the border markers.
It’s not Alberta’s fault that the ROC doesn’t have the culture of entrepreneurship, the work ethic and doctrine of basic self-sufficiency of Alberta.”
Easy now, Stephen. Alberta’s wealth has as much to do with entrepreneurship, the work ethic and doctrine of basic self-sufficiency as Saudi Arabia’s does.
Alberta’s wealth is result of oil and not some set of mystical, instrinsic virtues that set them apart from other Canadians.
Without that oil patch underneath it, there’s no reason to believe Albertans would be any better off than folks in say, Saskatchewan.
Posted by JJM at September 1, 2005 08:25 AM
Saskatchewan has LOTS of resources yet is not in the same financial shape as Alberta. Does the oil stop at the border? No, we have a very different government philosophy. Alberta could be just like us if they elected NDP governments. They have indeed benefitted from a better attitude.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/09/01/gas_prices_20050901.html
Incredible:
“”I was shocked at the increase,” said Saudino. “It deserved an immediate response.”
Saudino [Timmins, Ont. councillor] said he wanted to do something before the price hit $1.40 per litre.
The city of Timmins, Ont. councillor said the solution to high gas prices is reactivating the National Energy Program. The NEP was a controversial program designed to promote oil self-sufficiency for Canada during the oil crises of the 1970s.
“They must have a made-in-Canada pricing system for Canadians,” Saudino said.”
Made-in-canada pricing system?!
The Libs have so pissed off the Americans that should the west even hint that they’d like to join the US, it would be over in an hour. Martin couldn’t get over his pettiness long enough to place a phone call to Bush. None of those folks in New Orleans or Biloxi give a toss about softwood tariffs, but hey, Martin has to look good to the eastern voters. Screechin’ Annie looked mighty apprehensive on CTV when Paula Newton mentioned western unhappiness with Ottawa. This might be just enough to scare those who vote for this Liberal screech-piece to finally give her the boot.
“Alberta’s wealth is somewhat due to oil but is mostly due to the entrepreneurship and fiscal responsibility that sets Albertans apart from other provinces.”
Hmm.
Tucked away amongst all the self-congratulatory hubris there is the truth: without oil in the first place, Albertan “entrepreneurship and fiscal responsibility” would be meaningless.
I’m afraid too many Albertan posters here seem to be engaged in re-engineering history to meet their current needs.
But that’s OK. Everybody does it.
JJM, you speak as though Alberta is the only province with natural resources. Sure we’ve got oil. Quebec has hydroelectric power. BC has trees and marijuana. Saskatchewan has oil and uranium. Ontario has nickel. Newfoundland has oil and fish.
Why is it that Alberta is debt free today, when in 1990 we were 25 billion dollars in debt? It is because we cut back on services and let the revenue streams catch back up to and eventually surpass the expenditures. That’s it. It is a simple formula. Perhaps it isn’t “nuanced” enough for Ontario or Quebec, since it doesn’t involve graft and corruption, and is hence not understandable to those provinces.
Since September brings the 100th anniversary of Alberta and Saskatchewan in Canada, I have a different question.
100 years ago, the Liberal regime of Laurier split up the current provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan as they entered confederation. He correctly presumed that it would be easier for the Liberals to either form a provincial government or to wield influence over the 2 smaller provinces vs the single large province.
Would Albertans and Saskatchewanians (what do you call yourselves?) consider merging our provinces to strengthen our voice within confederation? We would even have more financial clout to do megaprojects such as the large dam in southeastern Alberta and southwestern Saskatchewan. Our resource and agricultural base would be considerable. I am for it but what about others. Happy 100th anyways!
They are Saskatchewanites Brian.
” England pays for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales.”
And just ask THESE folks about how much they love that: http://www.thecep.org.uk/
“Rich EU countries subsidize Ireland, Portugal, Greece and others like them.”
Ireland now has the hghest per-capita GDP in the EU, or hadn’t you heard? Of course, they still get more transfer payments than do Poland, Slovakia or any of the other new entrants, who are orders of magnitude poorer. And, of course, the largest net beneficiary of EU funds–through the indefensible Common Agricultural Policy that makes up the single largest part of the EU budget–is France, hardly a poor country either.
Seriously, as someone who’s lived in Brussels, I have to say that holding up ANYTHING done by the EU as a shining example of common sense is almost always a sure indicator of not really knowing anything about how the EU actually operates. If the EU didn’t exist, it would most certainly NOT be necessary now to invent it.
I only got as far as comment 9 from the top and had to scroll down here to Congratulate a man of fewer words but of real and worthwhile action.
Doug is going to carry a placard tomorrow reading,
PMPM Wants Alberta Money, or
PMPM Plunders Alberta Money, or
Martin Covets Alberta Wealth, or
Liberals Sucking Alberta Dry!, or
Liberals Robbing Alberta!
Any other real men and gals going to join Doug in Calgary downtown tomorrow??
Can’t put another $500 on my card just now, or I would join Doug from here on Vancouver Island.
Any sponsers out there? Better still, find 10 Calgary teens and give them $50 and a placard each.
What a real news grabber that could be.
Fomenting civilized, civil unrest, 73s TG
Kate said: “I invite everyone from central and eastern Canada to simply shut their mouths, and drive out to Lloydminster to see precisely how differing governmental policy, attitude and taxation affect economic development – all other factors being equal.”
I understand your frustration, Kate. But I’m obviously not one of those many central/easterners who don’t understand the western half. I do understand that it’s as you said above. After all, it’s only recently that the east has realized the value of developing oil and gas resources as being a better idea than things like ACOA and EI policies that cause people to not want to work any more than just a very little bit, which is all is needed for some selected persons to collect EI as a way of life, another form of welfare. It’s not just the feds but also the two other levels of gov’t that have fostered this still-not-remedied culture of inability and entitlement, which is the main cause of Maritime econo doldrums from which we still aren’t emerging.
It’s not just having oil and gas; it’s also having 100% sovereignty over it, as Danny Williams was correct to demand of reluctant, greedy Candyman Martin. It’s a heartening beginning. We’ve a long way to go, still…
Gotta shake the culture of defeat and make people want to achieve self-acquired “have” status for their provinces. I still, unfortunately, don’t see it happening…
I’ll remember your recommendation to someday visit Lloydminster.