If Steve Guilbeault gets his way, every fire department in Canada is going to need a fleet of tanker trucks to attend car accidents.
Firefighters arrived to find a Tesla Model Y on fire, and troopers shut down that portion of Interstate 65.
Two hose lines were deployed, and it took more than an hour to get the fire under control. A total of three engines, two rescues, one ambulance, four water tankers, one squad, one brush truck and three command vehicles responded to the fire.
But it must be clean fire.
No emissions from EV fires.
You reckon?
“Understand all…. As a firefighter, I think you need to know this.
If you have been exposed to high levels of toxins from a Li-ion fire, you have just started your toxic Li-ion fire journey.
One of the many toxins you will encounter is…. Hydrogen Fluoride.
OK.. Large amounts of hydrogen fluoride (HF) will be generated in a Li-ion fire..
It is toxic, life threatening at 130 ppm.. With 10 minutes exposure at that level you will be gone…..
(Imho, you would be a fool to hang around putting out your li-ion scooter, let alone an EV.)
Ok so why is HF a problem for firefighters?… Well my friends, you can absorb hydrogen fluoride through your skin. You don’t have to breathe it in.
If you actually breathe enough in, good luck.
If you are in a confined area with a Li-ion fire… you will be exposed to high levels of HF… Understand that.
A link to a paper that addresses the issue of fluoride gases, is attached below, titled:
“Toxic fluoride gas emissions from lithium-ion battery fires.”
Larsson, F., Andersson, P., Blomqvist, P. et al. Toxic fluoride gas emissions from lithium-ion battery fires. Sci Rep 7, 10018 (2017).
https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-017-09784-z”
Via https://joannenova.com.au/2023/12/wednesday-36/#comment-2721539
Thank you. Very informative — and concerning.
Has anyone ever questioned parking in attached garages and car parks? Things could quickly expand beyond a $ million. Electric cars have sunk a couple ships.
My condo does not allow EVs – can’t put in charging stations because of the load on our electric grid for the condo and our condo insurance will not cover EV fires (so no parking in the underground parking lot – sad in January). So if you want an EV, park on the street and look elsewhere for charging
hahahahahaha
what a freaking joke this whole EV BS is……..
EV’s aren’t a joke. If you want a $65,000.00 golf cart to get your eco-sensitive (sic) trophy wife to the market and back … knock yourself out. What IS a joke is FORCING these unaffordable death traps onto the general public in the same manner our totalitarian State forced COVID shots that didn’t cure COVID. Well, these EV’s don’t cure a damn thing either. Both are lots of fancy technology without a practical purpose.
GlowBullBC has already done a couple of “I’m a VICTIM” stories related to this, by virtue signalling EV owners, whose mean, mean, mean strata councils won’t put in chargers for their selfish needs.
LOL
I have on this site! NO EV is going to be in a parking garage near me.
It’ll be an elitist problem…since the rest of us will be riding bicycles (if we’re lucky to have a high enough social credit score) whenever we’re not shivering to death in our 4X8 after a hearty meal of crickets, while waiting for our N-teenth jab to take us out. Sunny ways, my comrades…
Winter will be peachy with frozen trucks with broken lines… they don’t make stuff like they used to…quality has tanked drastically.
They? It is US who are not making any good stuff anymore – it is all out-sourced on the cheap …..
We make nothing and have lots of bureaucrats, marketers, social workers, non-profit activists and consultants.
Thinking ….
The water use is mainly used to cool things around.
The water will never, ever stop lithium from burning, just to control the periphery on the other side of the flames reach.
Exactly so. The fuel and the oxidant are locked in the chemical compound and can only burn out. Fire protection is mostly preventing the fire from spreading to other flammable objects. Problems with LI batteriers was a major reason why the Bo-787 Dreamliner was delayed in development for years.
I was attacked hysterically by EV enthusiasts for pointing this out on LinkedIn. Religious maniacs never want to let the truth interfere with their mythology, and religious mania is what AGW is. Hence I was banned from LI a few years ago after the discussion became ‘heated’.
They’re all cut from the same cloth it seems. Many moons ago, I had an Elton John impersonator hybrid/EV auto tech in an online forum get all butt hurt (no pun intended) about me having called vehicle hybrid technology the 8-track player of our time. So much so…that when it became clear to him I was evidently unfazed by his online threats to litigate, he called my employer in a laughably unsuccessful effort to get me fired. Later on in life the GM of another company I worked for dragged me out to help him evaluate a seminar/training sales pitch which…surprise…happened to be run by this snowflake. For some strange reason no one at my table, or those within earshot, wound up interested in what the guy was selling.
Agreed. This kind of thing happens all the time. During my professional career I had to handle two lawsuits threatening my employer. In both cases, the complainants were chased off with what my lawyers called PFO letters (please f**k off).
Your main point is entirely correct. EV enthusiasts seem to be a cult. They are dissuaded by neither logic nor science nor sound engineering experience. As for me, I don’t miss LI. It became a dumpster fire after Microsoft bought it out in 2016. Bill Gates should have stuck to trying to operate Microsoft intelligently. That way Windows Vista or Windows 8 might not have been the spectacular disasters they were.
As it is now, LI is just a swamp of lying propaganda from WEF and a lot of puffery from various BS renewable energy scams. Most of all this is aimed at robbing taxpayers of their money on worthless schemes and flying assorted knobs to the annual UNFCCC party in December at some exotic holiday location.
The worst part about LI is how many fake IDs are allowed to proliferate across the forum. The majority of them have no actual business other than 24-hours a day trolling of real people and commentary.
You are exactly correct about LI. The last time I got tossed off I celebrated, and left them to their cult-like insanity.
Way to much fire equipment for this. Yes on the tankers and only two fire engines would be needed.
Over kill
My thought as well. A lot of fire departments are now wayyy overstaffed and full of pension seekers, paper pushers and “health and safety” nazis. And their accompanying need for 5MM toys to justify their yearly budget increases.
In a lot of big city jurisdictions they have pushed well into the territory occupied by ambulances as well because otherwise they would spend most of their time sitting around. Because “fire unions” like police unions are nearly untouchable.
Both you and Dustoff are wrong. LI fires cannot be extinguished by water. Learn something about chemistry before preaching about fire departments and equipment.
Hear that sound ? That was the point going by over your head.
I bet you’re a “every cop is a hero” type as well.
So you’re another low-grade moron too. So PFO.
“So you’re another low-grade moron too. So PFO.”
Speaking of low grade MORONs, hi cghCOLON!
Retired fire/medic. I also did forest fires.
30+ years.
We don’t use water to kill the fire, just to contain it’s growth or property near by.
Go down the list of fire equipment that was there. Over-kill
CHG
Read and learn.
Two hose lines were deployed, and it took more than an hour to get the fire under control. A total of three engines, two rescues, one ambulance, four water tankers, one squad, one brush truck and three command vehicles responded to the fire.
Just TWO lines were used. Yet why two rescues rigs? Three engines when two could do the job. Plus you can run many lines from a single engine. Do you even know what a squad is? Plus 3 command vehicles. This was not a there alarm fire.
To be fair, for fire fighters electric vehicle fires are a new challenge. As Vito said, the water only functions to cool things down. The only practice that half-assed works is total immersion in a tank of water. And one still has to pick up the flaming vehicle to place it in the tank and soak it for a number of days.
I own a Toyota inbred, but I bought it at a fantastic price. everyone said I would have to replace the battery. I did replace the battery, but it was only the 12 volt battery that had been in the car for 11 years. It only gets about 40 miles a gallon. I can probably do that in a new car, but then bidnomics, I can’t afford a new car. 80 hp generator motor vehicle.
“pick up the flaming vehicle to place it in the tank”
I have a friend whose brother-in-law is a fireman in the Netherlands. They have a set-up that does exactly that.
You can also bury them under dry sand. An entire dump truck worth.
It can be dragged in as well… one of the big fire fighting equipment companies makes one that is basically a dumpster, winch and pump setup to do exactly that.
Robert
NO!!!, learn firefighting before posting. These “metal” fires burn oxygen right out of water, that’s why when I took fire fighting , we were told that no electrical or metal fire should be fought with sea water.
GYM
Who said using sea water. But sea water was used on the ship fire month ago.
Gym,
Nevertheless, that is what some firefighters do. Perhaps immersion just allows the fire to burn safely submerged due to the massive heat capacity of water plus with the large heat of vapourization of water. The batteries are going to burn whether they extract oxygen from air or water.
To be fair, for fire fighters electric vehicle fires are a new challenge.
Not really, remember we have had electric /ICE cars like Toyota for years.
As I recall, earlier ev/hybrid cars had iron-manganese batteries before they went to higher energy density lithium batteries. Besides, hybrids have quite a bit smaller batteries than pure electric vehicles. For instance, advertised battery range on a Kia Sportage PHEV is 50 km vs. 450 km for the EV6. So the “bomb” is 9x bigger in the pure EV vehicle. And the Kia HEV has an even smaller battery than the PHEV.
“Way to much fire equipment for this. Yes on the tankers and only two fire engines would be needed.
Over kill”
An apparatus has been built to puncture an EV battery from underneath and inject (something). Problem is, no one wants to get close enough to a burning EV to actually use it.
A hard sell.. Pick a minority, fake science the scht out of it.. Put them in their own area, then push them outdoors..
Works like a charm every time..
A dirty habit that had it coming but it was ultimately for nothing.. Now the very same people are attempting to redo our entire economy with vape pens.. Going for the JUGULAR because they feel the need to do something..
I wish them luck trying to push the majority outdoors..
This may have been posted here a while ago but deserves repeating.
https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels-operators/domestic-commercial-vessels/dcv-safety-alert-022023-risks-associated-carriage
I forwarded it to the BC government’s ferry executives. They pooh-poohed the whole thing as alarmist. Also covered but dismissed by Global news. I wonder how the BC auto insurance monopoly would react.
The Aus manual seems realistic.
On a recent trip to BC I wasn’t thrilled to be next to a couple of EV’s in the ferry line. Not thrilled but not panicked, either. The odds of a disaster on any given trip are likely minimal.
The chance of an EV fire taking out a large BC Ferry at some point in the future likely approach 100%.
Then there might be some response. Especially from underwriters.
Do you often gamble for such high stakes?
Stories about scratches on battery covers costing $40-60 thousand dollars for replacement ?
Understandable Ridicules.
where is Red Adair when we need him?
Endless TV potential…
Protect exposures and let the sucker burn . Send the bill to Washington.
The government knows that it’s impossible to provide the infrastructure to allow everyone to own an EV. They also know that the true cost of subsidies is close to $30K per vehicle and is unsustainable. They don’t care. The intention of this legislation is not to put everyone into an EV, but to get most people out of cars altogether.
As far as safety goes, I think that most people will ignore the issues with batteries until some children are immolated in a highly visible tragedy, and possibly even then.
I’m also really concerned about the safety issues with all the large, high-density batteries finding their way into people’s garages in battery powered snowblowers, lawnmowers, and roto-tillers. These aren’t subject to the same safety standards as EVs, and I predict a lot of catastrophic garage fires within the next 5 years.
It is a lot easier to understand what the government is doing, and also to stop focusing on why their ideas for the “replacements” won’t work, when you realize that three things that keep government from totally controlling people are 1) private ownership of guns, 2) private ownership of vehicles that allow people to go wherever they want when they want, 3) a monetary system that allows people to accumulate wealth in private and conduct economic transactions without the government immediately knowing all of the details.
‘As far as safety goes, I think that most people will ignore the issues with batteries until some children are immolated in a highly visible tragedy, and possibly even then.’
You’re right as I doubt many would let a little thing like kids getting immolated would make it much past the 24 hr news cycle and then be on to the next distraction.
If people are so indifferent as to border crisis and queer indoctrination of their underage kids etc , then there’s not much left on the table that’s sacred …. except maybe even more distraction.
Kids, schmids. That might move the needle a bit but not nearly as much a few underwriters suffering huge financial losses.
batteries.
back in the days of carbon zinc l demonstrated in a serious pinch one carefully partly dismantles the battery to stir up the electolyte and expose lots more zinc and make the flashlite work in a n emergency (true story try it and never forget and spread the word because
we……………….are…………………coming…………..to…………a………….time survival is day to day month to month.
anyways, the model Y got that beat. jeepers, heat and light for 2 days plenty of time to get noticed.
unless theyre on a call elsewhere. is that what we’re in for? ginormous delays a 2000% increase vehicle fires?
oyph. keep some extinguishers on board.
Send a cement truck instead of a fire truck?
City of Ottawa is getting hundreds of EV buses.
I axed my councillor if the bus depot’s fire suppression was upgraded.
He responded and said yes.
So now its just a waiting game, not hoping, just waiting.
In the future fire trucks won’t be used to put out EV fires. They’ll just have to burn themselves out.
Why?
The EV fire trucks will be waiting to be charged. That is if the fire station and EV fire trucks haven’t burned up.
Flaming SparkyNo Cars For The Masses!How the GEBs are going about it:
1) Force adoption of battery EVs (In process)
2) Promise new battery technology that will eliminate the range and charging (tech that will never happen)
3) Mandate more charging stations to alleviate the current lack of chargers (there were never enough chargers and if EVs are the only option, there might be enough chargers by 2080 +/- a decade or so)
4) Expand and upgrade the grid to handle everything that has been switched to electrical power (that’s not just EVs. There is no Manhattan Project for the grid to cover the increase in electricity demand)
5) Expand RELIABLE electric power stations to meet the projected demand if everything is all electric (heck! we are shutting power plants down)
That is exactly how the EV/everything electric is being implemented right now and it is exactly backwards which guarantees failure.
Wrong technique.
Need Bazooka.
Just as the oilfields guys extinguish burning wellheads with explosives..We must extinguish burning electric cars by blowing them loose of the source..
Safety first.
We must put their fire out before it starts..
Indeed ,even if the virtue signalling twits,die in said explosions,”At least they did not die in the battery fire”.
Or Covid!
The damn things burn under water, freaking submerged. You have to be bat sh*t crazy to own one.
Blame Jm Carrey, Yes Man.
The rest of us say, No way man.
Geeboo’s wet dream will soon turn into a nightmare. Oh well. He can retire with a fat pension somewhere in green Quebec.