The Week- ‘Worst day in Israeli history’: why didn’t anyone see it coming?
“Though Israel is no stranger to terrorist attacks, Saturday’s assault was unprecedented,” said Joshua Berlinger for CNN, “not least because of the lack of warning.” Despite decades in which the country became a “technology powerhouse that boasts one of the world’s most impressive armed forces and a premier intelligence agency”, Israel’s military found itself caught completely “off-guard”
The Free Mind- Decolonisation is not a metaphor, it is violence.
Hamas’s terrorism has been a mask-off moment for the decolonisers. It turns out that advocates of decolonisation want violence and violation with their vibes.
To think, the Gaza strip was given to the Palestinians with no conditions.
Like say No WAR.
Plus what they were given, they wrecked. It’s all they know.
Most heavily guarded border in the world. Check.
Most sophisticated defence systems. Check.
Army outpost not 5 km away. Check.
Overrun by guys in tennis shoes and hang gliders?
None of this adds up. I smell a rat on the level with the King David Hotel and the USS Liberty.
Bingo. Don’t think they were getting much traction from Alien Invasion and The Coof.
@KevinB
A little like 9/11 and Peal Harbour rolled into one. No one seemed to know anything then either, then wham, it’s time to go to war.
I have no definitive opinion either way on such “conspiracy theories” that always accompany these events – but they sure do rhyme over time. and to ignore the possibilities is a detriment to our future health if true.
“The information, contained in a declassified memorandum from the Office of Naval Intelligence, adds to proof that Washington dismissed red flags signalling that mass bloodshed was looming and war was imminent.”
https://themillenniumreport.com/2018/04/hard-evidence-proves-president-roosevelt-was-warned-about-pearl-harbor-attack/
“I have no definitive opinion either way on such “conspiracy theories” that always accompany these events – but they sure do rhyme over time. and to ignore the possibilities is a detriment to our future health if true.”
I know how you feel, but the King David Hotel was the one where they called and warned them about the attack first (and were not believed), and the USS Liberty was clearly an accident due to the ‘fog of war’ (since mass insanity doesn’t actually exist).
Having a concert. With folks drinking.
And the RAVE was peaking at … 7 a.m.
Concert? How quaint.
Nope. Not a concert.
They all need to sit down and watch “Fauda”.
As with nurses and other medical staff during covid, the IDF has been making a ton of dancing TikTok videos. Almost all the soldiers are very young women who don’t look like they’d fare too well against a vicious foe like Hamas.
Just like the US military.
Everyone leans to flight. I’m quite sure the IDF is too.
“Just like the US military.
Everyone leans to flight. I’m quite sure the IDF is too.”
Yeah, I saw an interview with an IDF Major who looked like a 20-something woman to me. Still shocked to find out that Israel has strict ‘gun control’ in place…if they had emulated Switzerland, and every reserve soldier had an assault rifle at home, this would have been a very different outcome.
Left-wingers destroy everything they touch. Some may mean well, but the end result of their collective policies is always the same: violence.
Decolonizers, um there is no such thing as native Palestinian honestly the left really are stupid. So how does one decolonize Palestine, pull out all the white plumbing, cut the power lines, cut off running water and the sewer system. Yea nothing says decolonizing like raping women, murdering children and gunning down men. I just can’t stand listening to those freaks, their logic is so twisted it belongs in a manual that details “Mental Illnesses”
The Israelis got a warning from Egyptian intelligence, 10 days prior according to the the Egyptians, about something big happening from Gaza and soon. The Israelis say that’s a lie, but in this case I believe the Egyptians, which raises some very dark hypotheses about the Israeli actions or lack thereof prior to this attack.
Is there a Gorelick lurking around the Israeli intelligence services?
Believe the allies of the perpetrators? Sure, very wise.
Maybe you’re aware of the FBI investigation into the 9/11 Dancing Israelis from New Jersey. If not do some research. It helps explain why I might be inclined to believe the Egyptians. Irrespective of the Egyptians claim, I don’t believe the claims that Israeli intelligence, once the most competent intelligence agency in the west, is now suddenly blind and deaf because of “wokeness”. So with or without the alert from the Egyptians, they would have known something was brewing in Gaza.
“I don’t believe the claims that Israeli intelligence, once the most competent intelligence agency in the west, is now suddenly blind and deaf because of “wokeness”.”
So you haven’t followed Israeli politics much, then? You don’t know what kind of people are in the Israeli government, or how left-wing the Opposition is? ‘Wokeness’ has infiltrated every democracy, especially the ones that are cursed with ‘proportional representation’ (which you can vote your way into, but have to shoot your way out of).
“So you haven’t followed Israeli politics much, then?”
If they’re all so woke how did Netanyahu get elected? Anyway following up on this “wokeism” theory, do you know the turnover rate in the ranks of Israeli intelligence? Or do you have evidence that all the competent people were recently fired? This was an abject failure of intelligence. If the Israeli defense establishment is so incompetent, because they’re “woke”, it won’t go well for them invading Gaza will it?
“If they’re all so woke how did Netanyahu get elected? ”
Two words: Proportional Representation. Worst form of government ever.
“Anyway following up on this “wokeism” theory, do you know the turnover rate in the ranks of Israeli intelligence? Or do you have evidence that all the competent people were recently fired? ”
Retired, more likely.
“If the Israeli defense establishment is so incompetent, because they’re “woke”, it won’t go well for them invading Gaza will it?”
Oh, it will go just fine with with a severe wake-up call like they just had. Expect the people urging “moderation” and “proportionality” to be pointedly ignored this time around…
I think upper ranks in IDF and Mossad are full of gen Milleys + leftie/woke young Israelis convinced that flowers and vivid coloured clothing are the best answer to militant Islam.
“I think upper ranks in IDF and Mossad are full of gen Milleys + leftie/woke young Israelis convinced that flowers and vivid coloured clothing are the best answer to militant Islam.”
Exactly. They are paying the price for it now, I think.
Quite a few of those Israelis dragged out of kibbutzim to their deaths were Jews in name only who had devoted their lives to carrying water for the Arabs, presumably expecting gratitude.
Among them was Vivian Silver, a Canadian woman late of Winnipeg who claimed to be Jewish, and who helped run something called Women Wage Peace, a front for Israel’s Palestinian enemies intended to appeal to Israeli women with more money and free time than common sense, and funded by genteel Jew-haters and self-hating Jews outside Israel.
The last anyone outside Gaza heard from Vivian is when Hamas thugs broke into her house while she was on the phone to her son in Canada. As at 72 she was far too old to have any value as a rape slave, and had limited further use as a useful idiot, it’s a fair bet Vivian was murdered upon arrival in Hamastan, though her exact fate is not yet known.
And now liberals from Tel Aviv to Toronto have the gall to blame Netanyahu for this. Netanyahu was trying to stop something like this from ever happening again. But for Israel’s liberal elites’ stranglehold on Israel institutions, he’d have succeeded.
Vivian learned the hard way that the Co-Exist crowd were wrong and Rabbi Kahane was right. Pity Hamas didn’t get any of the hand-wringers at Ha’aretz.
Or Chrystia Freeland, come to think of it.
“Quite a few of those Israelis dragged out of kibbutzim to their deaths were Jews in name only who had devoted their lives to carrying water for the Arabs, presumably expecting gratitude. ”
Useful Idiots. Hamas and Hezbollah just love them.
// Pity Hamas didn’t get any of the hand-wringers at Ha’aretz.
Or Chrystia Freeland, come to think of it. //
That Kahanist charm never fails.
Interesting hypothesis into why this event occurred. Who do you trust? The Egyptians claim that they warned Israel. US intelligence claim that they knew nothing as does Mossad. America left billions in weapons and equipment in Afghanistan and did not attempt to remove or destroy it. Somehow five thousand rockets were delivered unobtrusively to a stretch of beach half the size of the Normandy beach head on D-Day. These rockets are launched prior to an incursion of terrorists trained in para-gliders backed up by minimal ground forces on motor bikes and pick-up trucks and a water borne force in small speed boats. Big logistical question mark there!
Why were the sanctions removed from Iran? What really percipitated the Russian incursion into Ukraine? Where were all the US aircraft carriers on December 6, 1941? Who really killed Kennedy? Was the Wuhan Flu developed in a lab? Were the injections safe and effective? Who really won the 2020 election? So many questions and who do you trust or who can you trust?
I heard that AI had much to do with the “all quiet” status level of awareness. Another example of the dumbing down through technology?
There’s always the “Bombing of Coventry” aspect or the assertion that Peal Harbor was warned by Churchill to Roosevelt because a Dutch Sub seconded to the RN called in the sighting of Yamamoto’s fleet en route and was subsequently sunk by British Intelligence to cover-up. (see: https://www.amazon.ca/Op-JB-Christopher-Creighton/dp/0684817861) Claimed by the author to be true but widely ignored. In the same book, it was claimed that a British double agent tipped off Germany about the doomed Dieppe landing to secure his credibility.
Is it me or does it seem that institutionally ignored “conspiracy theories” sometimes offer the most logical explanation and some turn out to be reality.
I’d say that virtually all of the topics around which conspiracy theories swirl are on point – none of the official stories are believable. That said, if you subscribe to the theory that we are all ruled by the same people, and that nation states are convenient illusions for the purpose of afflicting the citizens of any given one with plausible deniability, then this would be a logical conclusion.
The media in such a case would all be controlled. And so it would be difficult to counter the narrative provided by the propagandists. The greatest challenge would be having no soapbox – all major and most minor media is controlled. Beyond that, your side would easily become infiltrated if you were gaining any traction. Another tactic is to inundate the particular “conspiracy theory” with myriads of other theories, all of which can be found to be lacking with even light research. The result of which is that the people are poisoned against all conspiracy theories, including the correct one.
Though sadly the most effective method is simply repeating the lie. And the same people that don’t trust the media will succumb to their life-long psychological conditioning and attack the truth to believe the lie. Sadly, even “conservatives” will believe the CBC during times of conflict.
October 10, 2023 at 2:41 pm
The is some discussion regarding the Dieppe Raid in as much as the Yanks were gung ho to start the invasion ASAP, while Churchill wanted a delay to ensure the invasion would without question succeed. The answer was to orchestrate a small raid to illustrate to the Yanks what would occur during a full scale invasion. The Yanks that were on the Dieppe Raid were there as witnesses, they never departed the assault craft. The beach head in Dieppe was chosen because it was a rock beach and shrapnel combined with rock fragments inflicted more damage to the landing troops. Whether there was an agent involved or just another cover of ULTRA is conjecture although Philby or one of the others could have been involved. The Canadian troops were chosen because, as you mentioned, Britain had made the sacrifice of Conventry and America’s sacrifice was at Pearl Harbour. All gets down to who do you trust.
There are theories about many raids and battles where major carnage took place, and where the outcome seemed obvious other than to those in charge. As usual, bad luck or incompetence was blamed, though I now subscribe to the belief (based on evidence, doubting Thomas…) that these were operations to cull large numbers of predominantly specific ethnic groups. Groups that were otherwise the most troublesome and/or natural competitors and thereby threats to those in power.
We’re taught that although the monarchs and aristocracy of Europe were all related to each other, that these were marriages of necessity for alliances and the like. Despite the fact that having a relative on the other side of an issue rarely prevented conflict. I’m of the opinion that the reason they were all related to each other is BECAUSE THEY WERE AND STILL ARE ON THE SAME SIDE.
They arrange to cull off large numbers of their serf class when they are no longer req’d in large numbers, or simply when their numbers have risen too high. It is also the reason for large influxes of foreigners – particularly dissimilar people who aren’t prone or likely to assimilate.
Kinda like here.
Today.
We’re getting off topic but unclassified documents suggested Ian Flemming – he was British Intelligence before writing James Bond – cooked up the Dieppe Raid. It was a claimed to be a diversity to allow his team to get in and grab a next-generation Enigma machine. However, things went to Hell and the rest is history.
Historically I would have joined the crowd blaming the usual suspects on the left, and piling on to the, “Why do ‘we’ give terrorist organizations and their sympathizers money”, and “bomb them into the stone age” arguments.
Though I have long since come to believe that the same people are on both sides of the conflict, and that this was yet another pre-planned event. The deaths and carnage are real, and the perpetrators deserve to die, but the people on both sides are being played.
As much as we are disgusted by pro-Palestinian individuals cheering this terrorism, they are little different than ultra far-left extremist NDPers in Canada – both exhibiting the expected output from their brainwashing. Both are taught lies by their lying media and they are foolish enough to both believe it and act out as a result of it.
I no longer subscribe to Hanlons’ razor, “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”. Rather I believe that is the opposite of reality in the highest echelons of power. But they want us to believe their puppets are just that – stupid. And many of them are, such as Juthtin Castreau. But those who write their scripts most certainly are not, and direct the peoples’ thoughts easily through their media monopoly.
Over the last few days, we see a basic difference between left and right. The right focused on the atrocities committed, the left including many of our trolls, on this “inexplicable” failure of intelligence and, almost in the same breath, making it sound like Israelis deserved to be slaughtered and may even have engineered it. Pathetic.
It would be helpful to differentiate between the people of a nation and their leaders. We expect the leaders to place the security and well-being of their citizens above all else.
Despite virtually always experiencing the opposite. Think of Braveheart as an illustrative example of the Scottish leaders being puppets of their English lords. Their primary job was to keep the people working on their slave jobs, and as a reward were given some of the product stolen from their own countrymen.
Juthtin is no different, nor are any of the top levels of gov’t and power throughout the world.
And that includes Bibi.
And every now and then there arises a need to cull the herd, to keep the numbers of the rabble manageable. And for that there is war. But of course the people won’t willingly risk life and limb, and so events must first be orchestrated.
And if a cull is to occur, might as well profit from the enterprise, no?
Leadership is indeed suspect and quite probably incompetence is rife but equating that with being in cahoots in engineering a massacre is absurd.
https://twitter.com/VDHanson/status/1711526451227619620?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1711526451227619620%7Ctwgr%5E979177294041445fbfb7c784a6a817f007eeacfb%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Finstapundit.com%2F610362%2F
Why is that absurd? Why does it seem commonplace that those in positions of power do that very thing? Look at Walter Duranty keeping the west ignorant of the Soviets starving millions to death in the Holodomor. Look at King Leopold’s role in the deaths of untold Congolese. Look at the governments and media of every nation encouraging their citizens to get poisoned during the Coronahoax, and the “Spanish” “Flu” vaccine apocalypse before that. Look about America’s role in getting the Polish resistance to “rise up” to be slaughtered by the Nazis while the Russians seemingly cooperated by waiting until they were wiped out until they resumed their advance.
And on and on and on….
“Why is that absurd? Why does it seem commonplace that those in positions of power do that very thing? Look at Walter Duranty keeping the west ignorant of the Soviets starving millions to death in the Holodomor. Look at King Leopold’s role in the deaths of untold Congolese. Look at the governments and media of every nation encouraging their citizens to get poisoned during the Coronahoax, ”
The problem with your examples is that those were not leaders engineering the slaughter of THEIR OWN PEOPLE, were they? It’s one thing to do it to someone else, quite different to do it to your own kind…and the Covid thing was for money, pure and simple, not ‘population control’.
Well Fred, I was providing examples in general, though in many of the cases of people doing it to “their own kind”, they’re not. Commonly the people who organize these events are different peoples. For example, all of the leadership of the Communists in Russia weren’t ethnically Russian. They could all speak Russian, and they all changed their names to Russian names however. Many came from NYC.
Likewise Hitler wasn’t German. Catherine the Great wasn’t Russian. And Benjamin Disraeli wasn’t British. And Juthtin isn’t “Canadian” as he passes himself off as being.
But even so, these are just the frontmen. There are no shortage of people without scruples who wouldn’t sell their own mother if they could make a buck, and these are exactly the type chosen to become heads of state and heads of “globalist” corporations.
“Well Fred, I was providing examples in general, though in many of the cases of people doing it to “their own kind”, they’re not. Commonly the people who organize these events are different peoples. For example, all of the leadership of the Communists in Russia weren’t ethnically Russian. They could all speak Russian, and they all changed their names to Russian names however. Many came from NYC.”
Fair enough.
Thomas, I AGREE 100%.
One blogger (2nd smartest guy in the world) now calls each and every adverse event a psyop.
He has labeled the Hamas invasion “Psyop Israel” tho he now says there’s a new theory about anti-Israel hacking.
Israel, which has given up many hardcore terrorist prisoners for a single Israeli, engineered this? Nonsense on stilts.
“making it sound like Israelis deserved to be slaughtered and may even have engineered it. Pathetic.”
Who said the Israelis deserved to slaughtered, or the Israelis “engineered” the attack? I’m saying they let it happen for military and geopolitical reasons. I believe unequivocally in Israel’s right to exist, but I retain the right to believe some of the actions of the Israelis to that end are unethical.
Many are saying that and many implying it with their comments. Opinions and suspicions are one thing but claims of this nature are absurd without a whit of evidence and you have none.
“without a whit of evidence and you have none.”
Neither do you. You have no evidence proving they didn’t know, or for that matter that they are incompetent. From the FBI report of the 9/11 Dancing Israelis it appears they are certainly capable of allowing extreme collateral damage in pursuing a geopolitical end.
Did you look up this story yet?
“Many are saying that and many implying it with their comments. Opinions and suspicions are one thing but claims of this nature are absurd without a whit of evidence and you have none.”
Very true, Thomas. The Israelis may be a lot of things, but they are certainly not stupid (or suicidal). If they were going to engineer something of this magnitude they would definitely not be getting caught so easily.
Thomas, Fred from BC: thanks for the sanity.
The Mossad created Hamas to oppose the PLO.
https://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/ron-paul-israel-created-hamas/
I’m not on any side here; just like to point things out that most don’t know about.
The deep state has been trying to take BiBi out for some time now, and maybe this is just another effort to do that! Plus the Russians ar now on the move in the Ukraine, and it is becoming too hard to hide that, except for a few never Pootiners in here, who are too stupid to figure out what is going on.
I agree with your thinking,,, deepstate holding back intell, allowing this to happen has a three fold effect.
1) make Bibi looks bad.
2) make Biden look sane, he looked and sounded sum what presidential today at his address, 13 months ahead of the general election. I’ll will not be supprised to see his approval rise.
3) make more money for the deepstate actors, with more war.
Why didn’t anyone see it coming? Because anyone who did see it coming, or thought it might come, or even talked about the last time it came, got fired. That’s why.
It doesn’t take much to paralyze an institution. Lower the morale with political witch hunts, punish achievement, reward rule-following, and build up a nice, big, not-my-job middle management.
But this time, one really must suspect treason. How did that many Hamas terrorists learn how to paraglide, and IDF security didn’t know anything? Not-my-job can’t really cover that big a hole.
Is something like this hanging fire in Canada? I really hope not, because this is a really big gun-free zone and we don’t have an army. They call it an army, but mostly it is overweight Majors in Ottawa polishing some very expensive desk chairs while they generate memos.
Or just bad luck.. It does happen when you take your eye off the ball.
It’s happened in every war.
“Remember 9/11. There was (all) kinds of evidence of what these hijackers were up to. But everyone let the PC bs get in the way. From the FBI on up.”
I would agree with that. Those people who seriously believe that the US government was actively involved in a plot to destroy the twin towers and kill thousands of US citizens have mental or emotional issues, in my opinion (or perhaps a simple lack of maturity?). Like you, Thomas and a few others here, I prefer to deal in facts and am a big believer in Occam’s Razor as well.
“Or just bad luck.. ”
It’s not “bad luck”. There were no serious defensive actions anywhere in the initial stages of the Hamas attack. They were all “asleep at the switch”, because…something to do with reinforcing the West Bank and no one was home on the Gaza border. Who made that order? You have to feel sorry for the soldiers left hung out to dry. The IDF leadership knew this was coming, maybe not the exact day but as I pointed out on another SDA thread, a cockroach couldn’t cross the buffer zone without the Israelis knowing and Hamas just rolled across, a few charges to blow the fence and let’s hit the highway fellow jihadists.
They let it happen….let that sink in. These are incredibly ruthless people….and you know what gives them license? Firstly they count on an asleep-at-the-switch media, and secondly an army of naive soft-brained supporters who babble on about how missing a Hamas invasion “could happen to anyone”, maybe because of wokism or something.
“Why didn’t anyone see it coming? Because anyone who did see it coming, or thought it might come, or even talked about the last time it came, got fired. That’s why.
It doesn’t take much to paralyze an institution. Lower the morale with political witch hunts, punish achievement, reward rule-following, and build up a nice, big, not-my-job middle management.”
Well said. That’s the same conclusion that most thinking people will probably arrive at eventually. I don’t believe that anything else stands up to any serious scrutiny.
Well, this will draw attention away from the Ukraine fiasco, at least for now.
Like many other posters, I find the total security/intelligence failure here to be very hard to believe.
Remember when EVERYBODY thought that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a total surprise–when in reality Pres Roosevelt did everything in his power to provoke the Japanese and then make the US fleet in Hawaii a great big, easy target? This event kind of feels like that.
Exactly. There were no shortage of warnings, and the decision to move the base from San Diego was rightfully heavily criticized as being both leaving the west coast without a significant naval presence, as well as leaving the fleet vulnerable far from the mainland.
And Rear Admiral Husband Kimmel was left to take the brunt of the blame despite looking like a scapegoat for a prearranged attack.
Echoes of the Lusitania… Basically everyone, except for those in charge, seemed to see what was coming. And then when the inevitable occurred, those in charge escaped all scrutiny and faced no punishment.
As always, claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Expecting something might be about to happen and knowing exactly what and when are not the same thing. Barking in unison does not prove your absurd claims.
You sound ignorant of the events of both examples given above. There was no shortage of evidence in both. Simply because you aren’t aware of it doesn’t make it “without evidence”. In the case of the Lusitania, the Germans even took out full page ads in major US papers warning the people of what would happen in advance of its sailing.
The UK also removed the Lusitania’s escort at the last minute AND ordered it to cut speed as it steamed through the most active U-boat area when speed was its ONLY defense.
Remember 9/11. There was (all) kinds of evidence of what these hijackers were up to. But everyone let the PC bs get in the way. From the FBI on up.
The same could be said of Israel.
Dustoff, I’d say there was no shortage of “evidence” that was fed to the people so that they’d blame their officials for being stupid, rather than seeing them for who they are, treasonous POS’s – many of whom were read in to that false flag event.
From the drivers licenses of the terrorists floating unharmed to the top of the debris piles, to the wrong-sized aircraft engine found mostly intact at the base of the building, to Building 4 coming down in a textbook controlled demolition while miraculously also having been announced as falling before it ever did…
The people are always fed enough to lead most to come to a prearranged conclusion, and tidbits of counter-info to satisfy those who don’t swallow the official explanation. But NEVER the actual story.
@Thomas – “Claiming otherwise without evidence is absurd.”
Quite true, alternately taking what any government claims at face value without independent evidence to verify is equally absurd.
There would be no revolutions or wars if False Flags and Conspiracy’s didn’t exist. They do and governments throughout history have used them as a means to what those in power consider doing “a little bad for the better good”.
Some examples are Operation Northwoods & the Gulf of Tonkin:
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2008/february/truth-about-tonkin
“Questions about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents have persisted for more than 40 years. But once-classified documents and tapes released in the past several years, combined with previously uncovered facts, make clear that high government officials distorted facts and deceived the American public about events that led to full U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.” – US Naval Institute Feb 2008
Declassified National Security Archive links provided:
“Operation Northwoods was a plan circulated in the U.S. government in 1962 to stage false flag terrorist attacks inside the U.S. and abroad to provoke “military intervention in Cuba”. The plan called for Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other operatives to commit genuine acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere.” – March 09 2010
https://publicintelligence.net/operation-northwoods/
Hatlo’s History.
Netanyahu had major political problems…they’re all rallying around him now, “When there’s a maniac at the door, quarreling brothers reconcile” but once the dust settles they’re going to want some answers.
And rightly so. However, perhaps rather than a total failure of intelligence, while I hesitate to give Hamas any credit, the terrorists managed to pull this off without being discovered before hand. The Allies should never have pulled off D-Day as a surprise. Was Hitler in on it? This may have been well planned and carefully contained by the planners. Apparently, there could have been less than a handful knowing the details and the attackers were not told what they were training for specifically. Sometimes the enemy succeeds. Claiming otherwise without evidence is absurd.
D-Day was not a surprise. Hitler knew it was coming but was deceived into believing that the invasion would be further along the coast and therefore closer to Germany. The deception worked since most of the German armour was kept close to Calais until the D-Day beachhead was totally secure.
Which is merely a rewording of what I said. D-Day definitely came as a surprise to the Germans on the beach. Maybe a similar thing happened?
That said, the allies still rammed massive amounts of soldiers into a kill-zone. I’d take little solace that the kill-zone could have apparently been even worse.
Funny how often the allied soldiers were fed stories to make them glory in suffering. Kinda like the battle of the bulge, where the pinned Americans were told to be proud of the fact that they didn’t need or want to be relieved. Because their commander said, “Nuts!” to the Krauts.
While the Germans shelled them to death.
Or funny how the allies supplied boots for winter with the leather reversed, such that the wet and cold soaked inward. Guess we’ll just chalk tens of thousands of cases of trenchfoot and misery and suffering to yet another oopsie-doodle by the Keystone Kops running the Allied offensive.
Which state sponsors the activities of Hezbolla? Who just gave 6 Billion to that state? What 3 letter agency trained and support Hezbolla and others? Instead of reacting to the “that” of things, we need to find out the “why”.
The Obama/Biden cabal have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.
It also adds to the “conspiracy” that the RN refused to even send as much as a Cruiser for Dieppe shore bombardment.
Exactly. A lot of nonsense made sense, at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.
Now do South Africa.
How about Nagorno Karabakh, which used to be in Armenia last year?
Perhaps Israel has fallen into the technology trap: relying too much on electronic intelligence sources instead of old-fashioned spooks-and-moles-on-and-in-the-ground.
Why didn’t Israel see it coming? It was only the 50th Anniversary of the Yom Kippur War where they were surprised in 1973 by all out attacks by Egypt and Syria.
Just like President Obama and the US never saw Benghazi on 9/11.
Worse for Israel, this attack happened during the Holy Days, when everybody in Israeli government wanted to be the nice guy and let as many people including soldiers and police go home for the holidays.
They kept a minimum security force along the Gaza Border, to deal with what they thought was the largest likely attack, a dozen or a few dozen attackers from Gaza, or a couple hundred rockets.
Instead the overwhelmed Iron Dome with 5,000 rockets in one hour. Too many rockets to shoot down the dangerous rockets that would hit In settlements. Everyone was reacting to the rocket attacks and the damage, and deaths and injuries from the rockets that actually hit in the settlements.
Then the Hamas butchers overwhelmed the security forces with hundreds if not thousands of attackers blowing through the fences, paragliding over the fences, and even using boats to go around the fences. The distracted and isolated Army and Police were overwhelmed, and they were able to take hours of time killing civilians, old, young, children and babies.
It doesn’t take a well trained soldier to kill unarmed civilians and especially kill women and children. All it takes is sick animals armed with guns, knives and grenades. A lot of the attackers were teenagers.
Forty Dead BABIES!
https://ace.mu.nu/archives/406527.php
The Obama/Biden cabal has asked for this with their support for Iran, their weakness and their ignorant approach to the military and world politics. Oh not a penny of the billions we sent them has gone to weaponry! Who could believe such idiocy? Jake Sullivan is a moron. Antony Blinken is brain dead. Biden is merely scooping as much cash as possible while standing in for the GREAT BARACK! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
What’s the distinction between “our” side orchestrating this attack vs knowing about it and letting it happen? That seems to be the nub of the back and forth of these comments. Either way, an agenda is being served. Is the wokeness that has infected the military and intelligence a deliberate method used to weaken it? What of the fact that nearly all mass shooters and terrorists were known to authorities? Is/has there not been active attempts to disarm us and restrict/remove civil liberties using those events as pretexts? Why would our governments deliberately sabotage the economy knowing the pain it would cause? Too many things have happened that can be credibly explained by our leaders and media. Was this recent event the opening of another front (along with Ukraine/Russia) in furtherance of a larger war?
Look. Israel knows that the barbarians in Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank backed by Iran are always planning to kill them. They say so on a daily basis. The unfortunate truth is that they can do nothing about it until something like this happens. Then they rush to do as much damage to their enemies before the world tells them they must stop because their response is disproportionate. Did they know about it? Did they welcome it? Did they participate in it happening. Don’t be ridiculous. I’m going to die eventually. Barbarians are coming. I know it to be true but it’s hard to live your daily life with that foremost in one’s mind. So we let it drift into the background. Governments are made of people. People always want to make extremely complicated things into simple things. And no one seems to want to come right out and blame the elephant in the room. Islam itself. 1500 years of jihad, apparently, can be ignored more easily than a “failure in intelligence”.
Why would it be so far fetched to think the Israelis allowed it to happen?
It’s come out that pharma and government agencies knew the shots were untested and didn’t prevent infection or transmission. Government agencies knowingly lied about Russia collusion. Government agencies played a large role in creating the giant J6 entrapment scheme, and are now using it as a pretext to target MAGA as a domestic threat and affect the coming elections. Biden abandons $80b in arms in Afghanistan without even destroying it – where is it now? A southern border invaded by largely fighting age men – border agents required to release them, and Texas ordered to remove deterrents, allowing the invasion to resume unabated. Government Intel agencies worked with media to influence and censor opinion on all of the above.
And those are just a sample of very recent events. I don’t think it’s ridiculous at all to think a government would allow something bad to happen if it served some purpose they’d have no hope of convincing their citizens of otherwise.
Why would it be so far fetched to think the Israelis allowed it to happen? Because if they did, it would eventually be discovered. For sure. And nobody knows that better than bureaucrats.
Remember Bill Clinton’s “Wall” in the FBI? Something like that is at work here.
“Why would it be so far fetched to think the Israelis allowed it to happen? Because if they did, it would eventually be discovered. For sure. And nobody knows that better than bureaucrats.”
Well said, Phantom…my thoughts exactly. I tell 9/11 conspiracy nuts the same thing, and the believers in ‘chem-trails’ as well. Three people can keep a secret only if two of them are dead.
The idea of dozens, hundreds or even thousands of people being involved in conspiracies that resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians is ludicrous. You could perhaps have pulled off stuff like that before the internet arrived, and all information was controlled and disseminated through the mainstream news media, but not now.
See it coming?.. Even a sitting duck can grow complacent.. They knew lots of stuff just not the audacity of the plan.. We play games and they play for keeps..
What were they going to do?.. A preemptive strike on the darling Palestinians and wing it from there?.. Everybody would have shit their pants as all targets magically become daycare centers and hospitals.. A slick propaganda machine with half the world in its back pocket.. Why would they not?.. Win win..
Israel ends up isolated or attacked.. Sucks to be them..
Exaclty. Plus eternal vigilance is difficult. As someone once said, they only have to win once while we have to win every time. No one knows how many of these attacks have been thwarted before doing much damage.
Cassius Clay (prior to name change) first fought underdog Henry Cooper in London in 1963. Cooper was a hard puncher but not in Clay’s league by any stretch of the imagination. If not for the end of the round and the ropes, Cooper would likely have won that fight by KO when he knocked Clay silly in the 4th round. Was Clay unaware that Cooper would try to hit him? Did he not take him seriously? Did he just let his guard down for a moment or did he purposely let Cooper hit him and risk his undefeated record and a fight with Liston?
“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” – Mike Tyson
Geez could it not be more obvious that this was allowed to proceed in order to foment a massive response?
Stop being naive and study history over the last several thousand years.
This is standard playbook rules.
Naive? That’s a good one! I merely ask for evidence of rather preposterous claims provided with none. You, apparently, believe unlikely things without any evidence at all but with conviction based on … claims that have been made in the past equally without evidence and I’m naive? As soon as any of this is proven, I’ll happily accept the facts. Until then, I’ll wait and go by Occam’s Razor.
“I merely ask for evidence of rather preposterous claims provided with none.”
I’m happy to point you in the right direction for evidence on the 9/11 Dancing Israelis but as near as I can tell you’re not really looking for evidence, despite your posturing. I’ll give you a start:
At about 8:50, maybe 8:55 on 2001-09-11, Tenant1 of Doric apartments NJ got a call from Tenant2 to look out the window towards Manhattan. When T1 did this she noticed 3 or 4 people on top of a white panel van. They were hugging and high fiving. This was disconcerting to her since across the Hudson River it appeared one of the WTCs was smoking. Disconcerting enough that she ending up writing down the license number of the van, getting one digit wrong, however in the end that was not an important detail.
Keep in mind one very very important point. The celebratory behaviour of the men on top of the van happened before the 2nd plane hit.
Shall I carry on?
They did see it coming
“ Egyptian Intelligence Minister called Netanyahu ten days before Hamas attack and warned him of “something unusual, a terrible operation” that was about to take place from Gaza. Egyptians were “surprised by the indifference shown by Netanyahu”.”
Well, Egyptians are always to be believed and, of course, would have nothing to gain by spreading such a tale.
Egyptians are Israel’s ally, above you said there was no evidence
BULL SHIT Ndp prick George
Sometimes the warnings or warning signs are blatantly obvious. The one with the most at stake refuses to believe it and fails to take action.
Refusal to believe may be stubbornness. It might be the inconvenience of having to get out of a comfort zone or make a life changing decision. Whether it’s individuals, corporations or countries, it’s the same.
“It can’t happen here, they wouldn’t dare, running to get the phone before you do means nothing” they all say. In the aftermath everyone slaps their foreheads and says, “Damn! It was so clear! Why didn’t I see it?”
Attack on Pearl, WTC or recent events were similar mindsets; refusing to believe it was happening.
When this is over, Netanyahoo will be crucified.
The Egyptian warning is an unsubstantiated story from the Associated Press. ///
A little background on the defense minister position:
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/26/1166134644/benjamin-netanyahu-fires-defense-minister-yoav-gallant
And
“The standoff exemplified how Mr. Ben-Gvir (Minister of National Security) and other far right leaders “see themselves as the tribunes of the front line soldiers being hung out to dry by an old-school, defeatist, globalist and ideologically untrustworthy military high command,” said Prof. Yehudah Mirsky, an expert on Israel at Brandeis University.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/13/world/middleeast/netanyahu-israel-military.html
“Hung out to dry indeed.”
At this point claims of an Israeli intelligence failure (or not) are “unsubstantiated”. My argument is that if the Israelis knew of the 9/11 plan in advance and failed to warn the Americans, they have demonstrated they would not let the ethical concern of severe collateral damage stop a strategy they felt would would benefit the long term geopolitical goals of Israel.
The best counter argument I can see to the story of the 9/11 Dancing Israelis is that these were rogue Mossad agents who discovered the 9/11 plot and decided not to inform the Israeli leadership.
@ Klapper
– The best counter argument I can see to the story of the 9/11 Dancing Israelis . . .
You’ve missed the most obvious one staring you in the face every time you bring this boll0cks into the comments.
It’s in the phrase “Dancing Israelis”.
Why would these fiendishly clever and ruthless undercover operatives who are specifically conspiring to keep their prior knowledge of 9-11 a secret, climb onto the top of a van and start jumping about and high fiving in public view right in front of the main event of the worst terror attack on the continental US?
The term “Dancing Israelis” was introduced into the world by the father of the lead terrorist behind 9-11. We should pay no attention to his poor, maligned little boy but look instead at this stupid story about some Ees-rah-aye-lee furniture movers.
The only dancing Israelis are those taken up residence inside your head.
“Why would these fiendishly clever and ruthless undercover operatives who are specifically conspiring to keep their prior knowledge of 9-11 a secret, climb onto the top of a van and start jumping about and high fiving in public view right in front of the main event of the worst terror attack on the continental US?”
A great question, PJF…and one that they never even attempt to answer.
“The term “Dancing Israelis” was introduced into the world by the father of the lead terrorist behind 9-11. We should pay no attention to his poor, maligned little boy but look instead at this stupid story about some Ees-rah-aye-lee furniture movers.
The only dancing Israelis are those taken up residence inside your head.”
Indeed:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis
I see nothing but a bunch of coincidental, unsubstantiated BS.
“I see nothing but a bunch of coincidental, unsubstantiated BS.”
The problem with your statement is that the timeline and events in the story of the 9/11 Dancing Israelis are substantiated by photos they took themselves, and the fact that the timing of the initial observation of the key witness (who was later interviewed by one of the US tv majors (ABC I think), was corroborated by records of the phone call from her neighbor.
Actually as near as I can tell, they were never actually dancing. On the roof of the van they were high fiving, and hugging each other, plus from the film the FBI developed the next day shows them hamming it up on the roof of the moving company they worked for in Weehauken NJ. The shot I find the most disturbing is one of them holding a lit lighter under the WTC (it’s in the background) from the roof of the moving company warehouse. The strength of this story is not just the witness statements, the timing of which is corroborated by phone records from Tenant #2, but the fact they took a multitude of photos of themselves celebrating that day. Regrettably the FBI decided to destroy the original photos and the negatives, so all we have is the photocopies of photocopies with their faces blanked out.
When they were interviewed on Israeli TV after they were released from custody and flown back to Israel, they claimed they were “documenting” the 9/11 event. The only problem with that is they clearly knew about the event before hand, although the documenting part is sort of true.
From the other side:
https://cufpa.wordpress.com/2023/08/22/targeting-palestinian-children-is-necessary-for-israeli-settler-colonialism/
I will not take sides in this most recent conflict. There have been atrocities by both sides, and both sides need to eventually be held accountable.
“From the other side:
https://cufpa.wordpress.com/2023/08/22/targeting-palestinian-children-is-necessary-for-israeli-settler-colonialism/
I will not take sides in this most recent conflict. ”
You just did.