119 Replies to “Like a Porcupine in a Nudist Camp”

  1. CCP / CPC

    We’ll excuse your dislexia … unless of course it was a Freudian slip.
    In which case … you’ll still be excused.

      1. Not a single unelected ministry person lost their jobs from government to government…
        Same system different ‘elected officials.

  2. I’m surprised the CPC is doing so well actually. I would have expected them to be tied with the dippers at this point. Of those 27% I wonder how many would bother to vote?

    1. I am also surprised. After the disastrous convention, and O’Toole announcing his carbon tax without even consulting his own MP’s, they should have slid a lot more than 3 percentage points.

      1. There are many times more centrist voters looking for an alternative to Trudeau than there are true ideological conservatives. That is why O’Toole and/or his advisors are doing what they’re doing.

        For every ticked off SDA comment writer there are five to six suburban Toronto/Vancouver voters looking to switch away from Trudeau.

  3. Pissing all over your base will do that to your popularity but you can’t tell that to their 20 something, zit-faced, poly-sci grads getting O’Toole to go for the Liberal NDP Green – lite vote.

    1. ” …but you can’t tell that to their 20 something, zit-faced, poly-sci grads getting O’Toole to go for the Liberal NDP Green – lite vote.”

      You’re dead right on that, JC. But one other thing is quite apparent: Nobody has told Pinky No’Tool that advice from zit-faced, poly-sci grads to go for the Liberal NDP Green – lite vote is suicidal.

      But then again, anyone who had an ounce of the right leadership stuff would instinctively know that and wouldn’t need to be told.

      1. “…anyone who had an ounce of the right leadership stuff would instinctively know that…”

        You know what? I can’t bring myself to believe the CPC big shots don’t understand that. They couldn’t possibly have got where they are and no know who their base is, and not know what their base wants. These are -professionals-. This is their job. They can read polls. They know what’s up.

        And knowing all that, they are going Liberal-Lite -anyway-. Which leads me to suspect an arrangement.

        1. I think the rot is more ubiquitous than just with the top. When I resigned in disgust from the local EDA board several years ago, the mindless mushy middle was “in charge” and anyone suggesting anything resembling less government was an outlier. That was at the local board level, never mind the national level.

          1. When you consider that every party staffer has been educated by our socialist system then it all becomes clear. They are incapable of even contemplating anything that isn’t rooted in Marxism/Leninism.

          2. At this point, any hope for a fiscally responsible government to ever gain power is lost. May as well vote for whoever’s giving away the most freebies and bring about the collapse as fast as possible.

          3. Same. When I mentioned government should shrink, they were aghast, most of them were in it for jobs if we won. Resigned after the election.

        2. I so agree with you. Harper lost on purpose, so did Scheer. And we are paying the price.

    2. “Pissing all over your base will do that to your popularity but you can’t tell that to their 20 something, zit-faced, poly-sci grads getting O’Toole to go for the Liberal NDP Green – lite vote.”

      How would anyone think, that a single one of these poly-sci grads would have a “conservative thought” left in them,,, after 12 years of programing through the school system and tack on another 3-5years at tech/university. Of course their advice is to move left,,, that’s all they know, left or further left. In their minds a step to the right equals “rightwing extremism,” “alt right,” or “rightwing radicalism.”
      For them, it’s just a job(for the moment) at worst, it’s a way of making sure the other side wins, the side where their true loyalties lie.

    3. “Pissing all over your base will do that to your popularity but you can’t tell that to their 20 something, zit-faced, poly-sci grads getting O’Toole to go for the Liberal NDP Green – lite vote.”

      This. Exactly this.

      Not sure yet who to vote for, but it won’t be for the CPC as long as O’Toole is leader.

      1. If you want pipelines and economic activity and not rule by the UN and carbon taxes, it can only be PPC and Max Bernier.

    4. “Pissing all over your base will do that to your popularity”

      And yet, we observe that the so called “base” has not simply left in droves. Leads to the question, what exactly does this “base” actually want or care about. Not winning, clearly. Not policy. Not being offered an actual choice. Apparently, simply the advance auction of other people’s money. All that is left of post national canada, is an angry mob chanting “free stuff for me, paid for by thee”.

      The only way forward, is out.

      1. Then again, why believe any poll. Wasn’t Ipsos one of the crowd saying Hillary was guaranteed to win.

      2. Because it is a long hard road for an outsider to crack the portals. You have to be anointed.
        Look at Biden’s climate summit.Greta et al: Really. That was an insult, a demonstration of naked power that can only rebound. 200 heads of state force-fed Greta? Hopefully some will go home and initiate various audits.

    1. I’d be willing to bet that little Blackie is being propped up by a large number of female fans.

  4. One of the very few polls I actually believe. Because my poor, poor, conservative Canadian friends live in a Country that has just simply lost the plot. And belong to a “conservative” Party that has REALLY lost the plot. I fear there’s no coming back from that double-digit deficit. You and I, my friends … we’re BOTH CA now …

  5. Like our GOP, your “conservative” party thinks the way to victory is to be more like the liberals. They either don’t know or don’t care that their potential voters are looking for an alternative to totalitarianism.

    1. Yup. The only way he can be more like Prinz Dummkopf is to wear a toupee, an awful beard, and stuff some socks down the front of his pants. Blackface is optional.

      G’bye, Conservatives. It was nice knowing you.

    2. Yes Your GOP is hopeless, they are not even the party of the rich any more, they’ve lost that demographic to the Dems.

      1. Canadians are socialists to the core, any expectation of policies that do not reflect socialism will be stillborn.

    3. “your “conservative” party thinks the way to victory is to be more like the liberals”
      Yes exactly..
      Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe in his book, Trudeau the Elder said,
      “the only way socialists can gain power is to INFILTRATE the ruling parties and change them from within”
      All parties, courts, organizations, educational institutions, government dept’s and ministries have been infiltrated.

  6. The thought process is to skim off the blue Liberals and expect the conservatives to stay because they have no other options. In reality, the fact that the Conservatives are ignoring their base is what is creating other options for conservatives. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that Canada has more parasites than producers. The Liberals will destroy Canada. The Conservatives would too, only slower. My next vote goes to the party with the best chance of defeating my Conservative MP. Hopefully true conservatives put this party in the corner until they realize what they’ve done.

      1. Ironically, voting Liberal is probably the easiest and fastest way to build up a western separatist party.
        Because Jay Hill and his party are doing less than nothing to build it themselves.

      2. I think the NDP have a better shot where I live.
        I’m considering running for the Bloq in Western Canada. I know a lot of people here willing to kick them out of Confederacy.

  7. They call ’em polls because they serve the same purpose as the poles shepherds use to herd sheep.

      1. or those crooks are poles. can’t say that, don’t want to insult those who’s ancestry is Polish.

  8. 276 out of 1000 survey takers gives the liberals a 38% in the world of ipsos…

    19 out of 20 times…

    guess it must be these new dominion calculators they are using…

    1. @JD:
      Well if that poll is fairly accurate, then 37%+19%+=56%.
      This country is doomed for have so many looney lefty socialists.

      1. Actually, it’s:

        38 – Liberals
        19 – NDP
        7 – Greens

        That’s a total of 63% of Canadians who want more socialism even as Canada racks up unprecedented debt and utterly fails at its Covid response. Now with immigration spiking to 400,000 a year and immigrants overwhelmingly voting Liberal, this is probably the point of no return.

        1. chip, I have been saying for decades that 65% of Canadians are socialists the remaining 34% are socialist lite, with maybe 1% of us who actually embrace individual freedom and small government.

          1. What else would a country founded by loyalists (people terrified of opposing the king) and the French be?

        2. @Chip:
          Oh crap, forgot about the Greens. We are truly doomed, the immigration is icing on that shiticake.

  9. Yeah well, polls are very subjective, and have outliers within that should discounted.

    “ The NDP, still firmly in third position nationally, has rebounded to 19% of the popular vote (up 6 points), grabbing votes from the two leading parties. ”

    I’m sorry, but I don’t know a world where a fellow knuckledragger would up and turn into a communist!

  10. Like a Porcupine in a Nudist Camp

    The party does indeed seem to be full of pricks.

  11. CPC Failure Theater.
    Lemme guess, I should send more money to the CPC?

    Bloc at only 7%?
    We need to get those numbers up.
    Viva der Separashun!

    1. The Bloc numbers *are* up, to 38% in Quebec, 5 points higher than the Libs.
      Vive la séparation indeed.

  12. O’toole completely misrepresented who he is and what he believes during the conservative leadership race. He’s revealed himself to be a dishonest, unethical scumbag. While scumbaggery is pretty typical in the political arena, I think it deeply offended many loyal conservative voters. Who could trust him about anything he promised during an election campaign?

    Thinking that conservatives will vote for him anyway is terrible miscalculation, imo, because prairie people tend to create/vote for protest parties in these situations.

    1. “He’s revealed himself to be a dishonest, unethical scumbag.”

      So, he’s a politician?

      1. It sure seems that way but with a few rare exceptions. The culture of corruption is so pervasive in politics that they convince each other and themselves that it’s normal. So even those who start with a moral compass soon lose their way. At this point using honorable in their official title is as ironic as giving a heavy guy the nickname Slim.

  13. The election could have been won on Trudeau’s pandemic response alone but the idiot won’t even criticize Trudeau for anything and then announces probably one of the worst policy proposals in Canadian history.

    1. Trudeaus’ pandemic response which was not existent. He should have been arrested last summer and charged with endangering the lives of Canadians . Instead he kept the doors open and allowed all kinds of infected people in, and after thirty days he is going to open the gates again. I don’t think we will ever see a responsible government in Canada again, liberals have the support of all civil servants all teachers and all of their families. Ironically civil servants and teachers are the only ones who have not suffered from the pandemic. Conservatives will never learn they have to lie like the liberals have been doing for the last 50 years, lie during the campaign and then renege on all the promises when elected.

    2. james ..are you serious?
      The MSM has convinced the sheep that Trudeau is taking care of us with His Pandemic Response.

      *The election could have been won on by the Sock boy based on MSM coverage of Trudeau’s pandemic response.*
      Fixed it for you.

  14. Otool needs to start having weekly fireside chats with the canadian audience, where he lovingly reads from The Communist Manifesto. That should bring his numbers up. Bwahahaha!!! 🙂

  15. The CPC shoots blanks while pretending to send rounds downrange. Canadians already have plenty of half-assed leadership.
    Where the bold new leadership, to fuse libertarians and conservatives, to attract 70+% of moderates with no policy home?
    Call these fools on the covid bait and switch, using the health care model of monopoly providers who don’t provide.
    In this case, doing so with the entire economy and social fabric of this nation. Using incompetence to beggar us all.
    Atomizing us into statist dependency bereft of decency or intimacy, depending on handouts instead of self-reliance.
    Diane Francis excoriates this corrupt and collectivist cabal, who wing it, pretending to follow science instead of blackface backfill.

    “Here are the only pertinent facts: as of April 24, the United States has vaccinated 67 out of every 100 people — 41 per cent of the population have received one dose and 27 per cent have been fully vaccinated within the manufacturer-specified 21 or 28 days; Canada, on the other hand, has vaccinated 32 out of every 100 people — 29 per cent of the population have gotten one dose and a mere 2.7 per cent have been fully vaccinated because the Liberals have permitted four-month delays in giving second doses.”

    Canada may be the only developed nation in this “2.7 per cent fully vaccinated” category. Other countries in this category include Argentina, Guyana, Mongolia, Dominica, India, Colombia, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Belarus and virtually the entire Third World. Canada even lags Mexico, which has fully vaccinated 4.2 per cent of its population.”

    This metric — the percentage of people who are fully vaccinated — is what counts, and Canada is the only country in the world that is officially denying people their vital second shots for four months.”

    Notice the complete lack of evidence cited by the story: some vaccinologists “suspect” … there are “stories.” Quebec is, in other words, considering using its population as guinea pigs, based solely on the gut feeling of “some” experts and hearsay.”

    Among Trudeau’s long list of scandals, this is by far the biggest. And yet, the press and the opposition parties are failing to hold the Liberals to account. The public shouldn’t fall for Trudeau’s pharma flimflam. His government’s incompetence is causing death and economic dysfunction.”

    https://financialpost.com/diane-francis/diane-francis-pandemic-failure-is-trudeaus-biggest-scandal-yet?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1619464754

    1. You can take the killshot. JTs incompetence has accidentally saved lives. The vax is suspiciously problematic and dangerous for a 0.03% national death rate. We’re being played.

    2. Hear! Hear! And why is NO-ONE talking about Trudeau wanting to reset us? Or parroting every single thin Biden is saying/doing? WTFU.

      1. Maxime is polling big! lol
        You people do realize that he was bankrolled by the LPC to be a spoiler last election, yes?

  16. I’m beginning to think this site has been taken over by the Liberal Party. Justin Trudeau stills reigns and you are spending your time dumping on the Conservatives? Well played.

    1. So you want me to back O’Toole even when he supports most of the same policies as Juthtin … and lies about it? Should I vote for Ford too? Who’s been well played? Acting like an actual opposition might just work but being Liberal Lite won’t.

    2. Funny, I’m beginning to think that the CPC has been taken over by the Liberal Party.

    3. Exactly right, Pierce and jeppo. Conservatives are notorious for shooting at each other in the presence of the enemy. And many of the commentators here are demonstrating this yet again. We keep hearing this in endless moaning about ‘Coulda’ had Max’ and other such drivel. All the while forgetting that all they are achieving is keeping Blackface in office yet again.

      1. Maybe the best strategy is to keep letting the Libs win until the smell is unbearable to all Canadians. Voting for a CPC that is just another flavour of Libs ruling us, is no help. Though I doubt neither the Libs or Cons are governing Canada. I think they have been given their orders.

        1. Voting Conservative hasn’t stopped the Looters winning. The only Conservative leader they have had in at least 50 years was Harper. The problem in Canada is the homogeneity of the establishment.

      2. Exactly right if you want the same thing with a new face. You seem to think that merely winning the cup in a different uniform is the important thing when in the end they are playing the same game. So you’d prefer a carbon tax from someone who promised to eliminate the carbon tax instead of a carbon tax from someone who promised one and delivered. I find it hard to see the difference in the end.

      3. Well, cgh, are you bowing to the Altar of Glowbull Warming, same as your “conservative” leader, O’Fool? If not, why not, fall in line, do as your leader tells you what to believe!

      4. We can see this wreck heading for the ditch after the last 2 CPC ‘Leaders’ could not beat sock boy. This is not rocket science, it’s just a poorly acted play.

    4. What conservatives? Certainly not the CPC, have you been awake? There are no conservative options in Canada.

      1. People’s Party have a strong conservative and libertarian leader. Edward puts forth another option which I don’t chose but it seems to work for one province. Maybe it does require strong Provos and decentralization but then we have to change the Feds as they are centralist.

        Mind you, I see the same crap policies in Quebec and many Western countries. Now, just why is Kenny on the global warming bandwagon? There must be some longer invisible strings at play – which I don’t know about.

        1. “People’s Party have a strong conservative and libertarian leader.”

          Maxime Bernier is the Libertine leader. Who is the conservative leader?

  17. Maverick,PPC waste time and money.Reform,alliance,made Chrétien successful.
    Provincial separation referendums need to be organized and held asp. If favourable we’re
    operating from strength.Get on your mlas

  18. I’m willing to bet that eventually they’ll change their name back to “Progressive Conservative” one day.

  19. Reading from just the title of the article the biggest shift in voter preferences is to not voting at all.
    That one third has likely grown to half of eligible voters.
    Judging from the choices currently that are varying shades of communist ideology, my extrapolation is that the voter that has given up doesn’t want communism in any shade.
    So I would have to ask, why isn’t any party trying to capture that vote?
    That was a rhetorical question, the answer is that option has a plethora of well positioned and well funded critics that keeps the poli-sci grads advising the politicians that playing Santa and taking a knee for the cause dejour is the safer option.
    So, what to do.
    What else, mischief is important.
    For example, how much mischief can 100 or so conservative minded individuals do if they join a liberal EDA in time for a candidate nomination?
    Not that I recommend actually doing it, but use some grey matter and come up with some “fun things” to do.

      1. Heard a man say something like that down in the US in 2016 to all the minority voters trapped in democrat held cities.

        If our “team” is trying to win favour from the other side, there is nothing to lose.

        Might as well look for ways to make the tyrant’s lives miserable.

        1. Ah, but now you are talking active involvement in politics, instead of whinging and holding silly demos; and you are talking about an exceptional leader.

    1. Given that the national party actually controls the nomination, you’d have to find a candidate that lived his whole life in a liberal approved manner, and then goes ‘surprise, conservative’ after s/he is elected…

  20. So what they are saying is that about 64% of Canadians are economically illiterate and “progressive” enough to vote for various forms of socialism, and people here are arguing over which brand of “conservatism” is needed to defeat this, right? Nice.

    The only way “conservatives” in this country every form government is when they all get on one band wagon, and the “progressives” continue to split their vote over 2, and now 3, socialist parties. I don’t count the Blocheads due to their existence only being a place for them to collect federal pensions while laughing their asses off at both Quebecers who vote for them hoping for “independence” (like they would leave the trough) and Canada for giving them free money for the threat of leaving.

    Noted also that the PPC splinter doesn’t even register in the poll. Hard to pin the hopes of true “conservatives” on a party that can’t outpoll the Green machine.

    1. In order for voters to unite behind a party it actually has to represent them and their interests. If the Torys don’t do that and offer nothing to vote for then no one will vote for them. They are not entitled to conservatives’ votes simply because they have blue ties.
      Right now, there is zero reason for anyone, right or left, to vote Tory. That’s why they are at 27%. And no, PM Blackface is bad is not a good enough reason cause, on policy, you can barely slip a sheet of onion paper between Trudeau and O’Toole.

    2. Dwayne, two things. The Bloc isn’t separartist, it is a Provioncial party representing the province in a federal parliament. And the PPC is not presented as an option in polls or by the CBC because they have determined it doesn’t exist. Remember in 2016 when Ann Coulter said Trump would win on TV and the other guests and audience laughed.

    3. “Hard to pin the hopes of true “conservatives” on a party that can’t outpoll the Green machine.”

      Yes. However, SDA has it’s own shrill pack of fantasists who dream dream dream.

  21. That’s wipeout territory for the Torys. Not far off from Canadian Alliance range.
    Guess the Ontario Torys have already forgotten what happened in the 90s. Doomed to repeat history and so forth…

  22. Hmm, let’s examine the paradigms of these five wondrous choices as well as Option Six, which apparently polls at 2% these days.

    Liberals _ This is a sh*t storm, we created it, let us continue to manage it. (38% approval)

    Conservatives _ We could do slightly better managing this sh*t storm (27% approval)

    NDP _ The problem is, there’s not enough sh*t for this sh*t storm (19% approval)

    Bloc _ We could run our own separate sh*t storm and get out from under yours (7% approval, could be increased by running candidates in our part of Canada so we could assist in this project)

    Greens _ What about us, we’re bat-sh*t crazy, give us a chance, things can’t get worse (7% agree).

    Max _ Ever thought about adult supervision? (2% want to give that a chance).

    Apparently we live in some sort of insane asylum.

    1. “Max _ Ever thought about adult supervision? (2% want to give that a chance).”

      Yes? 2% think Maxime Bernier is an adult do they? He quit the party that gave him a public forum. Childish.
      He could have been it’s leader instead of O’Toole today.

  23. I’m so done with this train wreck. For all of you on here that are of the same feeling, remember to send a note to your local MPs. They might be in your camp, but if you don’t let them know, they can’t/ won’t pass the message on

    1. My local MP would be thrilled, he’s a flaming, lisping LGBTABCD Commie, with Meethead as his leader

  24. So the Con master plan is working just as devised, woo-hoo, lose the next election and lose it big this time. Way to go Con execs ( Liberal douchebags) you did it, you’ve lost the next election just as you planned, congratulations. That was pretty easy. Turdhole should receive quite the majority this time, thanks to the Cons and O’Stool. I wonder how much money the Turdhole Party is paying O;Stool and the Con executive committee for they’re Liberal/CCP loyalty. Politics sure pays well, for Liberal/CCP types.
    At this point the Con Party may as well use the slogans, “Vote LIberal/CCP” or “All hail the Turdhole Xi Government” as their campaign slogan for the next “election”.
    The losing strategy seems to be working as planned. Way to go guys!

    1. The Party leader, unless he loses, still gets paid and pensioned. Sheer didn’t lose his seat, just the leadership. He’s still at the trough. Out west where we all vote mostly CPC, what’s he doing these days?
      Frankly, I wouldn’t touch the CPC with a barge pole and anyone crapping on me about that can go suck eggs. I grew up in Kaybec, so I saw the light with the LPOC and The Cons a long time ago. Two sides of the same coin.

  25. Why would the Federal Conservatives(Of the progressive Kind) want to win?
    Can Ahh Duh is bankrupt,overrun with parasites and still spending like it is Welfare Wednesday.

    What needs doing to salvage our financial affairs is politically unacceptable to at least 40 % of the citizens..
    That would be the 40% or more who are sucking the lifeblood out of the taxpayers.
    And then another 25% are so poorly educated they cannot do the most basic maths,to whom “Money Comes from the Government” and giving handouts of taxpayers dollars to the clueless and useless,is “Investing in Society”..

    SO why would any serious politician,thats a career critter,want to win.
    If they do not act they can only incrementally slow the rush to collapse and if they had the courage to act as needed,they must destroy the vested interests forming the parasitic overload.

    So CBC and all the other Government media will hate on them like there is no tomorrow.
    The NDP will go full Jihad on their families and the professional criminals,sorry I mean the civil service will sabotage,obstruct and betray every act designed to correct this mess.

    So why would the Uni Party Conservatives even wish to win.
    No profit in winning for them.

    It is not as if they give a damn about our civil rights,the crushing load of regulation,taxation and official meddling,none of the collapse of production will effect their pensions..

    Canadians are getting what we vote for,
    The “lesser Evil” is still evil.
    No sane individual will enter the circus we call “Elected Office”.
    So we either vote Libtard,thats NPD or Liberal and accelerate the smash.

    For common sense says,if we cannot avoid it,then the next best option is crash it hard and fast.,for we are not getting any younger..
    If we let things proceed at their current speed,Canada will become Venezuela North.
    Because there will be no one left alive who remembers what freedom of thought and action ever was.

    An Independent West still has a work ethic and a realist view of government.
    Where Good Government is no government.
    If we quit the con of confederation now,we will be able to buy up the bankrupt ruins of the rest of Confederation at our price.
    Fire sale ain’t got nothing on a Starvation Sale.

  26. To those here who bemoan the implied treachery of “back-stabbing” the Conservative party by criticizing O’Toole’s version one must see the reality of Canadian politics and that conservative governance is near impossible regardless of how unified the CPC. The best that they have achieved this century is 39% of the popular vote which is only enough for a majority with an optimal split of Liberal, NDP and Green votes. The Liberals have learned this and virtually copy the NDP and Greens in policy and in the event of a minority, that allows for an easy coalition. The (majority) leftist Canadian culture despised the Harper years and will not allow that to be repeated and the NDP and Green votes can be as mercurial as required to prevent reoccurrence.

    Politics is downstream of culture and if the political scenery is to change, it must come from influencing people in other ways. Mass starvation and deprivation might also influence voters after the free stuff party ends. Breaking the country apart might also help but I’m skeptical due to Quebec’s fear of losing the ROC to shakedown and Western urban’s souls being too degraded from free stuff.

  27. Witmer of Michigan could speed things up. Shutting Line 5 across Lake Michigan. Watch Kaybec and Ontario’s heads explode. Watch for the “Ides of May”.

  28. I can understand the CPC being unpopular. I don’t understand why the Libs are popular.

  29. My reading is 71% of Canadians are unaware that there is such a thing as a Conservative party.

    So I’m not alone then.

  30. It’s a decade long dare. Libs Laughing over cigars and brandy and kale on some secret lair feeling zoom call:

    “Holy sht we can literally fck up the vaccine procurement so badly that we have the highest body count of any Canadian government since WWII AND we go up.”

    “Got it…now I double dog dare you to give a billion dollars to some hipster toonie scam artists that pay your family to speak.” “I’m sorry, did you forget, we already did that.”

    “Sure, let’s claim to be super-feminist and both cover for perverted generals AND fire the Justice Minister for not wanting to investigate corrupt Quebec engineers .”. Laughs; “Are there any other kind? But we already did that.”

    “Blackface…Indian costumes….ignore blockades…corn-hole the west…riiiiight.”

    “What’s left? I know let’s go nuclear. The nuclear non-proliferation treaty, gone?”. Nods around the table; “Okay let’s do that then, usual stakes.”

  31. We are now using voting machines. It doesn’t matter who you vote for or if you even vote at all. The machines and their operators decide who you voted for and who wins.

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