In the wake of the crash of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752 in Tehran this morning, two schools of thought quickly emerged. The first accepted the explanation given by Iranian authorities: that the 3-year-old 737-800, which had taken off minutes before, had suffered engine failure before plunging into the ground at Khalaj Abad, killing all 176 aboard. The second, widespread on the internet, was that the Kiev-bound plane had been accidentally shot down by an Iranian air-defense missile.
Given that the facts are just starting to trickle in, it’s far too early to say with any certainty what actually happened. Based on past experience, much of what has been reported as fact will turn out to be wrong; the true cause may very well turn out to be something no one has yet considered. But given the information we have right now, the second explanation makes more sense than the first.
”I don’t believe this is an accident. The plane ignited in flight. I believe it was struck by a surface to air missile or anti aircraft firearms. A cowardly act by terrorists against persons and nations who had nothing to do with the General’s death. I further believe that very shortly, the Americans will retribute, not only for this tragedy, but also for the missile attacks that they endured last night. As for Trudeau and the Liberals, their reaction to this will be the same as always. They’ll explain it away and do nothing.”
Note: Coincidentally, this same comment was removed from the National Post story on the air crash for allegedly utilizing ”foul language.” The only foul word I can see are the words ”Trudeau” and ”Liberals.”
“or anti aircraft firearms”
AAA Anti-Aircraft Artillery has a mix of tracer rounds with phosphorous fixed to the base of the projectile to help the gunner track
the arc of fire in low light.
These tracer rounds are quite visible in some videos, however they are not present in the case of Airlines Flight 752 in Tehran video.
At the time of writing, I felt that If a few 50 cal. rounds hit the aircraft just after takeoff, it was possible that a fuel leak could have caused the explosion. I guess we now know differently, but thanks anyway!!
The video that was shown, showed an aircraft on fire before it exploded in air and then crashed and exploded again.
An old John Batchelor program about Iran and its hostility towards America was repeated on the show’s RSS feed a few days ago. Batchelor interviewed an author of a book on the subject and the author mentioned something similar to this explanation.
In 1996, the Khobar Towers housing complex was bombed, killing a number of U. S. airmen. Iran’s reaction to that was something like: “We had nothing to do with the bombing of the Khobar Towers, but it will not happen again.” Hmmmmm……
Some readers may remember the American Airlines aircraft that crashed approx two months after the 9-11 attacks.
Speculation was rampant at the time that it was terrorism. The true cause was found to be something different.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587
Having participated in a number of industrial accident investigations, and read with great interest many failure analysis reports, the true cause is rarely, if ever, what was initially proposed or speculated.
yep joe, a friend of mine was an aircraft accident investigator, and he echoed that sentiment, he said that witnesses tended to “interpret what they saw, and distorting the facts doing so
My synopsis:
On the very same night & at very similar time frames – Iran launches ballistic missles to “hit” and not hit American Targets.
Same night a relatively Brand new 737-800 crashes.
Aircraft seen in video to be completely engulfed in Flames looking like a meteorite.
No Audio whatsoever – No Mayday Broadcast.
“Initial” report. (How initial ..? 5 min 10 min.??), states Engine Failure/Fire.
Reports of hundreds of small inward facing holes throughout the fuselage.
IRAN refuses to hand over Black Boxes.
My Bro in law has 40+ yrs Flying exp as Captain on Can 3000 & Emirates as a Senior Captain and will tell you for the asking, that all twin Engined aircraft must be Proven – CERTIFIED to be able to fly and land EASILY on one Engine should an engine failure happen. There is ample fire suppression integral to the aircraft to kill ANY fire while the fuel is shut off, none of which would impact communications, nor facilitate losing the actual engine from or with the wing.
With all the above in mind there can be only 1 Explanation.
Missle impact or AAA exploding in close proximity. Not saying it was on purpose, but knowing the Iranians, Nothing is out of the question
I’m not so sure. Just listened to the bbc news. They reported that bongo is going to get to the bottom of this investigation…..sure he is.
Canada doesn’t have diplomatic relations with Iran. The Italians are our go between. I’m betting the Iranians wouldn’t take bongo’s call.
Canadian citizens who are born in Iran don’t dare travel to Iran or from Iran through the US for fear of detainment. Shows you what travelling on a Canadian passport is worth.
Bongo is full of shit. He can no more send a team to investigate the plane crash than he can elect an MP in Alberta. Has Trump even called our fool to discuss this matter? Not likely.
First the US hits Trudeau’s voting base hard — takes out Soliemani — then the Iranians hit Trudeau’s voting base hard and take out students, Docs and their kids?? All on Crusty Freeloader’s National Airline!?!?! The Airline was quick to release the passenger list confirming no Americans had died.
Nobody should die that way. I feel for them and their families.
What did Shiny’s brother and his employers: Iran Press have to say about it? No black box to the US or Boeing?
All of the Canadian citizens onboard that flight are of Iranian descent.
big, and you have a point with that comment, or are you trying to steal A Canadian’s thunder
Canadians of convenience don’t ya know. Who the hell would go back after they escaped. idiots? Please stop with the crap. Why would a Christian from Iran ever set foot in the damn place again. Sometimes you are just plain stupid.
Seconding Joe’s caution with this titbit:
https://www.bellingcat.com/ , an analysis resource for journalists was shown on the National tonight examining one of the pictures showing holes in a fusilage fragment.
I think this one: https://ops.group/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/ENvkIekW4AMNUWP.jpeg
Upon getting higher resolution images, they determined that the holes were debris, rocks [ plus their shadows, I imagine ].
138 of the 167 passengers were headed to Canada, 63 were citizens.
there is close ups showing actual holes in the wing and engine that’s aren’t flotsam.
I don’t get why none of the passengers were Ukrainian. Seems odd.
My thought exactly. Why so MANY Canadian citizens? Was this a charter flight of some sort?
The flight was connecting to a Toronto bound flight departing from Kiev.
Ah … got it. That makes logical sense.
LindaL, I just went to China, through Chicago, and guess what, the plane was full of Chinese people, with a few token honkies. Why do people like you say such stupid things, is that because the church does all your thinking for you, and they don’t have a rep sitting next to you??????
Rocks….LMAO. As if.
What kind of rocks – the flying type..??
Give it up dizzy. Thats simply stupid.
Did anyone get to the bottom of the Air India bombing yet?
Took the NorthernShithole 25 years to come out with a report that nothing is ever done to diverse Canadians who commit acts of terrorism especially when thousands of them are happy with the mass murder.
Yet one possibility. An engine accidentally caught fire, and the resulting fireball on the sky attracted a defence launch of a rocket.
Iran will not be willing to admit if they shot down passenger aircraft. So misinformation will be going on in any case.
Could the big fireball at the end of the film have been the plane hitting something like an electrical transformer?
FRom PPRUNE: Only 5 passengers used Canadian Passports to leave Iran?? How many were Citizens of Hotel Canada?
Initial report of 752 Ukrainian Airlines Flight Accident Report released
Abedzadeh continued: Initial notification was given to Ukraine as the country of registration of the aircraft, the United States as the manufacturer, Sweden and Canada as the applicant countries whose nationals were in the aircraft, and Ukraine requested to be involved in the accident review process. Has introduced a team to participate in the disaster investigation, identification and transfer of the bodies of its nationals and other duties under the circumstances of the registrant and exploiter country, whose representatives will soon arrive in the country.
He said the plane had 167 passengers and nine crew members, all of whom died in the crash. There were 146 passengers with Iranian passports, 10 with Afghan passports, 5 with Canadian passports, 4 with Swedish passports, and 2 with Ukrainian passports and 9 flight crews, all of whom were Ukrainian nationals.
The head of the Civil Aviation Authority also said: “Some passengers may have multiple nationalities and be reported in another report with another nationality.” The above list relates to a passport that left the Islamic Republic of Iran. The bodies and remains of the occupants were identified and transported to forensic medicine under the supervision of judicial authorities for identification and transfer formalities.
Here’s a link to the original at an Iranian site:
https://www.cao.ir/news/organizatioal/detail?public_content=27450&title=%DA%AF%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%B4-%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%87-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%B1%D8%B3%D9%8A-%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AD%D9%87–%D9%BE%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B2-752–%D8%B4%D8%B1%DA%A9%D8%AA-%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%BE%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%8A-%D8%A7%DA%A9%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A-%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B4%D8%B1-%D8%B4%D8%AF
The snippet above came from this apparently as translated by chrome.
Just the mullah’s showing the Trump WH that they have MANPADS and know how to use them..
(in the US)
hint.
The Unifor media is excited that Mohammad Blackie promises to investigate the tragedy. And did you see his beautiful beard? Meanwhile the Toronto Sun website reports that the NDP is defending its participation at a pro Iran demonstration in Toronto.
Yes, who else had a beard, some guy who once visited 24 Sussex Drive.
(no not me — in joke for my friends — I have friends? who knew)
His Soleimani Beard?..”Look at me Donald..I hate you!”
If this was actually engine failure, it must be the strangest coincidence that the plane was close to strategic military assets at this particular time. One suspects that we are dealing with a sad overlap of zealotry, incompetence, and panic.
And for those not keeping up, I am not talking about the Green Party of Canada there.
Honestly, if someone shot it down, it wasn’t an accident. If it was an Iranian, it was some faction of the government vying for position over some other, or someone attacking their own government. Or someone covering for the Clinton State Department. Or the Saudis trying to use Iran as a proxy against the US…
One does not simply Nyan Cat into Mordor.
Firing a surface to air missile is not like spilling coffee on your shirt. No one, in the world, ever, was sitting at their desk monitoring their own international airport, and thinking “the Americans just took over our airport, I am shooting the next plane down”.
The debris field is indicating an explosion!!! So what caused a relatively new plane to explode is the question? Chances of the West finding out is slim at best!
But something I can’t find out was this plane taking off at the time of the missile launches? And if so why wasn’t the air space closed down!
Accidental missile hit very likely brought this plane down!!! What a tragedy !
This crash is very similar to TWA800, halfway through Clinton’s presidency.
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/obama-pilot-twa-flight-800-shot-article-1.2186329
Engine came into contact with a drone.
Debris punctured fuel tank.
Gas fumes pour into cabin
Engine fire ignited fuel on impact with ground causing an explosion similar to how a bunker buster does.
But that’s only speculation.
We do know a plane went down and the debris is spread all over the point of impact.
Did someone make a mistake or did someone do something intentional?
I’ll go with incompetency on this.
Odd that Trump never mentioned the plane in his speech. Never took a question. I guess if there are no Americans killed everything is alright.
Canada is collateral damage? Answers won’t be forthcoming?
Canada is as irrelevant to the USA as it has made itself. Infantile, emoting, brain dead anti-Americanism plays well to the domestic audience of coward sheep, can you imagine a truly free and proud country like the US giving a crap about Canada? Hardly worth the bother.
ab, Trump was smart not to mention it, as the commoy news would have had a field day with stupid questions, trying to lead Trump into a stupid statement, just for political fodder
The possibility that it has been accidentally shot down is completely avoided by the MSM. We get fact-free sob stories. Did the flight get delayed (it did) and cause confusion in the air defense net? Here we have a plane that is shown on fire, descending, no communications, and hits the ground in a fireball. This thing was out of control. This is not just an engine failure. Something truly catastrophic happened to that aircraft and just brushing aside the fact that this was during an Iranian missile attack and that the air defense network was on high alert is B.S. Somebody mentioned a flight off the east coast (flight 587) that blew up years ago (electrical problems in a fuel tank). Sure, there can be many cause factors to a crash, but one rule is to never discount any cause before the evidence is in. What gets me is this deliberate attempt by the MSM to look the other way at a very likely scenario to serve their narrative.
Anyone who thinks a missile can be fired by accident, is no help, to anyone in any situation, at any time or place.
The US shot down an Iranian airliner and we consider that an accident. The crew thought it was hostile, it wasn’t, oooppppsie !
Then you never heard of the Tarnak farm.
& I will take plane shot down by iranian missile for $ 100, Alex!
Now … the black boxes are *ahem* … damaged. Boxes which are specifically designed to survive plane crashes.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-plane-crash/black-boxes-recovered-from-crashed-iranian-plane-idUSTRE56E1RG20090716
“The tapes were out on the ground. We might send the black box to the country where it was manufactured (Russia) to chase the issue with their help,” he said
Uh? Didn’t the plane explode, and burn on impact? How would you find a “tape out on the ground”? Do the Islamic Terrorist officials in Iran actually believe the public are THAT stupid? And the black box recording device on a 3 year old Boeing Jet is “tape”? Really? Does the 737-900 jet also provide cassette tapes for your listening pleasure?
These lies are still way more believable than: Epstein killed himself.
And … I sincerely HOPE your PM sues the Iranian government for the loss of Canadian lives. May I suggest a $150B settlement, with at least $1.5B in unmarked US $100 bills? Such an amount could be flown into Ottawa in the dark of night.
Kenji, No thanks, the money will be given to Quebec.
Trudeau will chase this one hard. The downing of that aircraft was a direct hit on his voting base. Only 5 of those people, according to an early report on the the crash by the Iranians, left Iran showing a Canadian passport. Yet UAI shows 63 being Canadian. Exactly the cohort that Trudeau sees as his base. They are the replacement folks for colonial types.
He needs every Iranian vote he can get.
A simultaneous mechanical failure on a domestic airliner occurs during a hostile missile attack? It’s possible but not probable.
Many Iranian people identify as Persians. They aren’t part of the ayatollah’s, they are not arabs.
There is lots of speculation going on, I’ll just leave this here; the likelihood of an engine fire – although slim – is a possibility.
However, for the fire to continue burning after the crew isolates fuel, oil and hydraulics during the fire drill, then for the crew to not declare an emergency and choose to increase their airspeed and enter a dive are all indicative of something not at all normal going on.
Regarding all the holes in the wreckage, there are enough of them that the odds are the projectile that caused the hole is still inside the panel, if it still has some structure behind it that is. I have a hard time believing gravel did that unless someone can reach in and pull out the offending rock.
Iran not releasing the CVR and FDR speaks volumes, unless they have a history of conducting all foreign aircraft accidents in house and refusing assistance.
They’re not wrong. Jet engine tends to have mechanical failure when hit by anti-aircraft missile.
Most likely culprits:
1. The butler did it.
2. Climate Change
JK gets to work: https://twitter.com/jkenney/status/1215317869363286016
It wouldn’t be the first time an airliner was shot down by mistake. Off the top of my head, there was the Korean flight that strayed over Soviet airspace, the Iranian flight that was mistakenly hit by Americans during the gulf war and the Ukrainian flight brought down by Russian partisans during their takeover of Crimea.
But this is the first time the guilty party denied it…oops no, the Russians did too the last time.
Paging Bagdaddy Bob.
Inferior American Product fails over Iran.
Death to America.
And CBC is already on it,”If it turns out to be a missile,Orange Man Bad,look what his provocations made the poor Iranians do.”
Classic Progressive Comrades move,both barrels to the feet and them blame some entity far removed for your “marksmanship”.
Oh yeah, you can bet the CBC, CTV and Global are going to spin this some way to make Trump take the blame. Uh, yeah, the poor defenseless Iranians were so scared of the bad orange man that their integrated air defense system -equipped with excellent Russian gear they just bought and manned by the fearless Revolutionary Guards – that they shot the airliner down by mistake. Trump’s fault. Also Ukrainian Airline fault because the plane was delayed and that was not relayed to the air defense network who saw a blip where/when there wasn’t supposed to be one.