(Stupid Headline) P.E.I. man wants to know why he pays HST on electricity he generates himself
Currie is part of P.E.I.’s net metering program, which allows individual homeowners to generate their own electricity, sending any excess into the grid in exchange for credits so they don’t have to pay when they draw electricity back out of the grid — for example, at night when solar power can’t be generated. […]
He said he spent an extra $46,000, without government assistance, to build a net-zero home. In fact, he paid HST on the solar panels and the labour to have them installed.
He did it, said Currie, partly to save on his monthly bills, but also to reduce his family’s carbon footprint.
So, not net zero then.
It’s how the Excise Tax Act captures tax on barter exchanges. The CRA would argue the credits he received for the power generated is a taxable transaction. Thus, HST has to be collected on the fair market value.
Mike the answer is easy, you live in a communist freaking country. Stop complaining you voted for this shit.
Bingo. Typical lefty: “I am woke! I speak green! I use govt approved pronouns! Why am I paying?”
Stupid canadian commies will never learn. This country is a bad joke.
Agreed,
I was only pointing out – poorly – that being green does not exempt you from the good ol’ GST. He made a supply of power and, in return, received a supply from the power company. Both are taxable supplies under the law.
“supply” means, subject to sections 133 and 134, the provision of property or a service in any manner, including sale, transfer, barter, exchange, licence, rental, lease, gift or disposition;
Well I didn’t but I still get the taxes
He really should not complain. There really should be GST on both sides of the transaction. When he puts power into the grid he is selling it to the utility and GST should apply, then again when he takes it out of the grid.
Got no sympathy for those that act superior because wokeness, but expect everyone else to cover their shortcomings.
Bingo. He needs to start charging GST on the power supplied (at whatever rate he’s receiving) and the government gets the difference, just like any small business.
The idea of a universal tax is that it is supposed to apply to everything. If he doesn’t want to take the time to fill out the paperwork to collect then he can pay the whole shot himself. If he doesn’t like the paperwork then he should seriously reconsider how his area votes.
I guess it is going to take a long time to make back that $46,000. But he can feel good about saving the earth, I guess, even while China builds a few hundred more coal power plants at home and around the globe.
Living on the Prairies, with lots of sunshine, I actually investigated putting solar panels on my roof in Calgary and then in Regina when I moved here. In Calgary, it was going to cost me over $ 35,000 upfront and I had to use an approved contractor from Calgary Power. I was told that the system would be paid off in approx. 35 years. The longest I have ever lived in one house has been 10 years. As well, at my age, and at the time, I had a further life expectancy of 25 years. When I told the representative this important information, I just received “nothing” (it was a telephone conversation).
Solar Panels “might” make sense for the roofs of apartment buildings, but then again, I understand that fire departments are not too keen on them, as they generate a lot of combustible fuel, smoke development and rapid flame spread.
Good news, your system that has a life expectancy of about 20 years, will only take 35 years to pay itself off…
and they will degrade over time, producing less and less power until they can’t power a led bulb.
Firefighters have another reason to dislike them.
If a building with a big bunch of these things on the roof catches fire in the middle of the day, until the roof collapses into the inferno below, the panels are all cheerfully turning Photons into electricity. Several hundred Volts DC is normal.
Consider the “fun” to be had whilst holding a wet fire-hose and playing chlorinated “town” water onto said source of several hundred Volts DC.
He should just consider it as tuition in the school of life.
Wonder if he will learn anything though?
“I guess it is going to take a long time to make back that $46,000.”
There’s a word for someone in Arizona who installs solar power – moron.
There’s a word for someone in Canada who installs solar power – retard.
The system will never pay for itself. The panels deteriorate from day one and are likely dead long before the payback period ends.
I knew someone who installed solar 25 or 30 years ago. It cost him $10,000 as opposed to paying for 2 miles or more miles of power line for $35,000. He had to fire up his generator every day to charge up the batteries in the worst of winter. It worked great for him but if he was already hooked up to power, he would have been a retard.
The system will be worn out before he makes $46k.
Before that system has paid for itself, it will need replacement. He will have created a bunch of costly toxic waste instead of contributing to feeding the biosphere.
Not much sympathy here.
If you’re sending your solar power off into the grid, you’re doing it for one reason: because there is an economic benefit to YOU….extorted from people like me.
Any resident electrical engineers here who have considered this “grid feed’ caper?
What is the output impedance of a domestic inverter; pure sine-wave and synchronous, of course?
What is the nominal “input impedance” looking INTO the mains cables running down the street?
What level of phase-shifted / non-pure sine-wave, variable voltage will the electricity companies tolerate before getting “annoyed”?
Is the “grid feed” actually metered or just “deemed” at a nominal figure?
Please do not disturb or annoy the Electrical Engineers. They are very busy keeping the grid we have working. It
used to be easier but then you all elected morons (who can’t be trusted to screw in a light bulb) that decree what
must now be connected to the grid: solar panels, bird blenders, bird burners and their ilk.
well.
that certainly cured me of any inclination to what was it? feed the grid?
seriously, how many pollllitiSHUNS fully comprehend the ramifications of THIS technical stuff,
or ANY of the ‘edicts from on high’ they are famous for.
migawd, it’s almost antithetical to expect that to happen.
In English, electricity is supplied in a wave form. Any flat line additions to the supply have to be converted to a wave form. Not all waves are the same frequency and shape, so the combining waves need to be modulated and monitored to ensure a good wave results.
The farther off the incoming wave form, the more modification is needed to the original wave to keep it usable. The wave form modification takes power to do, and results in smaller wave-forms out than a straight arithmetic calculation would make you believe. Some added waves will mean less power out after the conversion than the main line brought in, if they’re totally out of phase.
The main feed from generator to city is three-phase, so a wave that is opposite to one wave should be applied to one of the other lines instead. Switches to do this cost money, and are another loss to the city.
Not an electrical engineer.
It’s easier to just make every policy a tax, that leaves more time for taxpayer funded junkets, seminars, political partying and meals.
ah yes. the “net-zero” argument from the Greenies. it’s always fun when it bites them back.
If he was in Ontario, he’d also be paying Delivery Charges on the power he has “banked” in the grid.
there’s one born every day.
There is no free lunch. And there is a new government scam everyday.
CC, correct and there is no such thing as an intelligent Canadian.
There’s a double-taxation issue here. By turning carbon dioxide into a commodity any benefit accrued is a taxable benefit. So, if you purchase carbon credits, the value of the credit must have HST added to it. Effectively this is a tax on a tax.
Second, the size of the market is usually underestimated by people. By imposing a carbon tax, however defined, and commodifying the emission of CO2, a gigantic market has been created. An entirely new commodity, essential to any functioning economy. Just think for a moment of how much the creation of an entirely new commodity essential to everyone and every thing is worth. So it should be no surprise that a host of financial institutions led by banks and insurance companies have been leading the charge of global warming propaganda this past summer.
Remember who invented all this: Maurice Strong, a financial pirate if ever there was one.
A tax on an odourless, tasteless, colourless gas that I produce every time I exhale. What could possibly go wrong? Then of course we must have a futures market. Can you imagine more fertile ground for fraud. The most favoured and profitable endeavour of progressives. But the weather is not supporting their narrative so in their desperation, they have opened the flood gates of their propaganda reservoirs, in an effort to make us deny what we must see if we only live with eyes open and brains engaged.
“sending any excess into the grid in exchange for credits”
Why the Power Company are buying power from these guys is nonsense. They generate the power and they need to find their own buyer…. This “must” buy policy becomes corruption when the cost exceeds public benefit…
JMHO
Court decision from a while back. The court ruled the power company had to buy the excess power created. Not a market decision but one mandated by a lawyer whose only high point was raising funds for the Liberal Party.
Sucker. Government gonna get the vig no matter what.
I have done work for a solar business. I asked him about the payback. He said it makes you feel good. Alrighty then.
He’s not off the grid. If you cut the cord, you won’t have to pay HST. Most people want to feel independent, but not really be independent. Can’t have it both ways. Also, this is a great lesson in energy storage. Coal, nat. gas, diesel, etc. are wonderful stores of energy. Wind and solar, not so much.
H
why is anyone paying GST PST and HST on power?
MM, why, because Canadians are freaking stupid. How many bloody times do I have to state that before the idiots catch on, right, they will never catch on.
‘wants to know why bla bla bla’
because gubbamint, THAT’S why
seriously, that’s as far as it goes. the schmuck is dealing exclusively with GUBBAMINT.
and that’s where the ‘answer’ begins and ends. gubbamint.
only thing, and vastly WORSE is ‘dealing’ with a polllllitiSHUN. of ANY major party.
Ive been trying for 30 friggin YEARS to get the building code amended to FORCE developers to install decent and sufficient BIKE RACKS at any new malls, gubbamint buildings, apartment complexes, etc, ie *where it is sensible and likely that bicycles are going to show up IF THERE IS A RELIABLE PLACE TO LOCK THE GODD*&^%^MN THING UP SO IT’S STILL THERE WHEN TIME TO LEAVE.
started with a conserrrrrvatist: ‘responsibibity ub da moooooonicipality’ BULLSHYT. it is the resposibibity of the city to ENFORCE the codes, NOT to draw them up.
-LIEberal in the ‘golden age’ of greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen enugee zip nada f off constituent etc
-n de pee see above.
and how much does it cost GUBBAMINT to put this amendment in place? hmmmm ?
as opposed to BILLIONS in subsidies etc? hmmmm ?????
Answer to his question is simple. Government taxes are theft and thieves will always want more.
Zero net is a freaking hand pump for water from your well and any fuel source possible to heat your home. No electric anything and back to the pioneer days, yahoo and away we go. Idiots.
I bet he gets all excited about the increased cost of food (and everything else) while boasting how “beneficial” a carbon tax is.
I too was amused by CBC?CTV Media Party hacks inability to connect the rising cost of food to a tax on everything.
Math is hard when you are a retard.
Eastern Progressive Comrades unite, Can_Ahh-Duh where all may be equal in poverty,but very pious poverty so thats all right.
My understanding is that a solar panel’s performance starts to degrade from installation, at the rate of about 1-2% per year. So even if they somehow last 25 – 30 years, they will be completely inefficient and will probably be long outdated technology, too. What a scam, no wonder the bullshit-addicted Musk is so active in this industry.
I also thought that the life expectancy of a solar panel was only about 25 years, doubt that they have since improved the technology by much. You will hardly be recouping your cost on something after 30 yrs if you already had to replace the damn thing after 25 yrs. Liberal math, it’s sure amazing what they can accomplish with it.
When the grid shut down for the California wildfires, many solar home owners were very surprised that they weren’t powering their own homes even when the sun was shining.
Grid goes down so do you.
When you have a domestic solar solution, you are really just micro-generating back through your meter during the day.
I’m not surprised to learn that a well-meaning person gets doubly hosed by the government and the utility.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/10/the_california_blackouts_and_solar_power.html
Really…it all makes sense.
When he doesn’t need it, he sells 60% of his generated electricity to the power company. When the sun don’t shine, he buys company generated power.
He pays tax on what he buys. That’s just common sense.
The government doesn’t sanction the barter system to eliminate taxes.
Disconnect from the grid if you don’t want to pay taxes. It might get a bit chilly at night, though.
you are right. I have installed solar off grid and net metering systems for many ears. The way it works is that he is paying HST on the electricity he consumes from the grid NOT the electricity he uses from his system. The meter has no way of determining what power he uses (called self consumption) generated by his solar. If he really wants to reduce his hydro to zero he should have invested in a hybrid inverter which would send a portion of the energy produced during sunlight hours to a battery bank which would in turn run his night time loads. These inverters also have a grid zero option which ensures use no grid energy but the grid is there as a fail safe. We do systems for cottages and have reduced their hydro bills to just the monthly connection fee (Ontario and Quebec). Like it or not hydro charges him HST for the service they provide. If he wishes to avoid it he should go completely off grid though this is not an option in a lot of places as for new home construction you need to be grid connected to get an occupancy permit. He should have researched more. I would be glad to help him but I have already been to PEI once and that was enough.
Technically he should be charging HST on the electricity he sells to the province and remitting it to the Federal government. Then the provincial government can subtract that HST payment from the HST payments them claim and remit to the feds – like the rest of us slugs who are required to do that BY LAW.
I want to know why I pay any tax.
Its so your tormentors can maintain their consumption of Champagne, Caviar and underaged “sex partners”.
Doesn’t that make you feel MUCH better?
For the record I am I am not a greenie but install solar to reduce bills for our
customers or to provide energy where there is none. Micro solar works. It also is a lot quieter than a generac. Sure it is expensive but it is a cheaper than a virtue signalling electric car. Unlike an electric car it doesn’t explode (except Teslas panels) if installed properly, runs by itself with very little maintenance and doesn’t veer of the road and kill you.
BTW solar panels do not degrade that much. A lot of our business is maintenance, so we test old panels all the time. Good panels show very little decline usually running at 95% after ten years. In cheap panels it may be higher. The worst I have seen is a 8% decline over about eight years. And Robert I have to agree. I live in Ottawa where a 3B train doesn’t work, we have brightly painted rainbow crosswalks and roads that are in such terrible condition that its almost like the create all the traffic jams so we do not notice the potholes. Don’t get me going about the high school teachers. So why do we pay taxes and that is the larger point. We are told it is for services. We get little or none. We are told it is because government helps us it doesn’t. And we are told it is to defend out country. As President Trump pointed out to our esteemed and intelligent PM we don’t really pay to defend our country.
Because the government must kill you if you don’t. (It’s a slow process, many stages along the way at which you can change your mind and start complying and get a lesser penalty, but the government’s policy must be “you comply or you die.” )
You noticed that too eh?
I lived for years in a properly designed off grid home. It did not get chilly so long as I did my chores. No computer, manual pull, heavily insulated drapes on the thermo pain south wall of windows. Only the heat pump was on a thermostat. It cost less than $10 a month to run, $5 if you cooked on the wood stove. The design and build costs however, were immense.
First of all he is running a business because he is selling something. It doesn’t matter if his client is a provincial electricity company. So he’d better have a business license. Then he’ll have to show his revenue against his expenses. Sure he’ll lose money at first. But when he breaks even he’ll have to pay corporate income tax on his profits. Of course, he’ll need a certified accountant (probably $2-$4,000 per year) as every incorporated company has to file annual financial statements and HST returns. After about 4 years the government is going to force him to close down his business because it’s not making any money. What is the pay-back on solar these days? 46 years?
If he had created a non-profit he could have written it all off, deducted all the HST from his initial installation and never paid a penny out of his own money. He could have gotten a huge green energy grant from the Atlantic Business Development Corporation for Feeble Thinkers. Then you would read about the local success story and the amazing green deeds he is doing.
But … he’s just another moron from Nova Scotia, who probably voted Liberal.
I saw a lot of solar panels on roofs on homes in Honolulu, so there must be some way to make this work as their electricity is expensive there, enough to have homes use solar.
Oh saw a few recharge stations and parking for “electric cars only” that were empty in a crowded parking lot.
I’m an old fart so I run on self-generated gas.
Here let me check my “Give a F’ ‘O’ meter” – New Dominion you say? Lesee…Voted Green Party for their district in the Provincial election and the Island as a whole went balls to the wall for the Reds.
Nope. Still readin’ zero.
BTW…skippy. If you want to avoid HST, then cut the cord to the grid. But don’t worry, they’ll still find a way to gouge ya.