Because any idiot, save the current PM, understands that importing tonnes of steel, throwing a rivet on it and calling it Canadian, is about as slimy as it gets when it comes to trade. If that practice leads to the inability to make a tank, or an airplane, guess what? It’s a national security risk.
Asked why the Canadian steel industry poses a national security threat, Ross replied that Canada, on its own, doesn’t represent a threat.
He said the tariffs are designed to persuade allies to reduce the amount of Chinese steel that passes through their countries and then floods into the U.S.
The real problem for Canada is that we’ve spent thirty years touting this ‘advantage’ to every other trade bloc in the world. Trump isn’t stupid and he’s correct. What was, in good faith, agreed to in NAFTA isn’t what the reality is on the ground. What was supposed to be an integrated economy has turned into an international one-way door to flood the American market with crappy product. Buy any wheel rims lately? If you get the lower priced variants make sure you check that they are even round. Manufacturing parts? Way out of tolerance.
Canada has allowed this to happen to our friends. Is it any wonder the Americans are playing hard-ball now?
About 2 years ago I was at Walmart wanting to buy steel rims for winter tires on our car. The employee wouldn’t sell me rims as they were being returned by customers for weld failures. These rims were made in China.
What a dumb anecdote.
P*$$ off, @&&-cheese.
Well “No Sh*it, Sherlock!” As far as having an explanation to this ‘Tariff War’ it just shows once again how absolutely brain dead most Canadians are. Then you have the brain surgeons that say as the tariff war heats up “We’ll just get our groceries and other consumables somewhere else.” Yeah like that is going to work. Talk about stupid, if this tariff war escalates we’ll be in the same or worse state than Greece is, but our Little Tater head and his band of Turnip brains is going to push this as “Mean Old Trump”.
I could go on a rant here but as most SDA readers and posters already know I’d be preaching to the choir so, to hell with it I’m going out to enjoy a game of golf and forget about “enjoying the Decline”.
Completely and utterly false. We make a lot of our own steel, and are the 3rd largest producer of aluminum. Our steel industry has numerous competitive advantages over American mills: access to cheap hydro for EAFs, access to high quality iron ore some of it doesnt even need to be upgraded, our mills are more modern, etc.
Even then America still enjoys a steel trade surplus with Canada.
But dont let facts get in the way of a good narrative.
What cheap hydro? Ontario has gone from one of the lowest industrial cost jurisdictions in North America to the second highest, lower only than California. In case you hadn’t noticed, buckwheat, Canadian steel mills have been shutting down as well. Did you somehow miss the closure of blast furnace operations in Hamilton, closure of its operations in Nanticoke, Stelco’s two trips through bankruptcy in the past decade?
But don’t let the facts get in the way of spinning your crapulous Shiny Pony narrative.
One needs to learn the difference between a blast furnace and an EAF
so just answer the goddammed question al, how can you make your claims about our metal refining in the face of GINORMOUS increase in hydro rates and the closing of the equally ginormous mill in hamilton?
I refer you to my previous statement.
I worked at Stelco Hamilton, out of high school. the place had its own bus system because of the size. Drive through there now and it is tough to remember those acres of empty parking lots being full of cars. There was also Atlas Steel in Welland, which is now a huge vacant field.
Most of my neighbours and friends watched this decline, step by painful step, and it was a sad part of their lives.
Apparently it never really happened….
I live across the Bay from the Hamilton street mills. Awfully quiet over there.
Allan S is referring to aluminum smelting, almost all of which is done in Quebec (one smelter in BC) because the hydro prices are very low there.
But this is a serious problem. Canada does import cheap aluminum from China and turns much of it into automotive products. The problem for the American automotive industry is that it cannot compete against the combination of cheap Chinese aluminum and the low Canadian dollar. Much of its aluminum smelting and steel making has disappeared as a result. This could be considered of national security because America is becoming dependent on cheap imported raw material from China – whether it comes through Canada or not – that has strategic military significance.
Canada should not ignore this issue. This is not just a Trump problem. He is the first President to actually address the issue. Canada had better pay attention.
Allan S is wrong in other comments, such as Canada steel production which is lower today than it was in 1980, while total steel production worldwide is up dramatically.
Also Allan S is wrong on Canada iron ore. Production peaked during the 1970s at 52 million tonnes and has fallen back to around 30-35 million tonnes today. Cliffs Resources (an American company) shut down its operation in Labrador City
Canada is slowly exiting the natural resources scene, due in part to the difficulty in opening new mines. $50 billion worth of chromite, nickel, copper and PGE remain locked in the ground in the James Bay Lowlands, as the government of Ontario cannot come to an agreement in resource sharing with the First Nations.
In 2014 Cliffs Natural Resources CEO stated “I’m walking away from Canada big time”. Hardly an endorsement of our natural resource investments.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/cliffs-natural-resources-retreats-from-failed-canadian-investments/article21682147/
Nice summary.
Canada is a net importer (i.e. we import more than we export) of steel.
In 2017, Canada imported about 9 Mt of steel while we produced about 13Mt.
Most of what we export & import goes/comes to/from the US (export to US about 6 Mt). The next biggest import is from China at around 1Mt. Clearly we are not exporting more chinese steel to the US than canadian steel, if you had read the article the US even said that this was not the case. Clearly our supposed competitive advantage is not really that competitive since we import so much from the US anyways.
The POINT is that the US is concerned that the cheap stuff is being re-branded and then dumped to the US. We know this happens, and even Trudeau admitted in march that the chinese were dumping. His drama career served him well, as his media ‘outrage’ ast such dumping did not show his intent which was to carry on allowing the dumping and getting some nice kickback.
One just needs to review the political contributor files to see the steel industry, foreign owned, giving money to the liberals. Connect the dots, they produce a nice picture with a pothead having nice shiny pony hair holding brown envelopes. But they aren’t doing this because they really, really like his hair.
Show me a single case of it happening. It’s not as easy as you think and theres huge risks involved. The shipper making a false declaration is a huge one. The shipment would also be seized.
The Canadian government is aware that companies are dumping aluminum and steel into the US market. That is why they are changing the rules.
“The new measures give the Canada Border Services Agency the authority to conduct investigations into companies that try to dodge duties through practices like slightly modifying products or assembling them in Canada.”
Previously, Border Services did not have the authority to investigate these problems.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4107759/steel-tariffs-chinese-dumping-justin-trudeau/
Alan S, I am afraid you are suffering from advanced CICS (Canadian Identity Crisis Syndrome). The only known cure is to go to Florida and buy a house and live in it for a year while enjoying all the rights, privileges and quality of life bestowed by God (not the Crown) upon the average American sovereign citizen. Then you go back to Canada and finally realize you are indeed a Government owned serf without rights and privileges who has been fed lies for your whole life about how great and free Canada is.
Then and only then can you formulate realistic learned opinions based in fact and not fantasy. I wish you well.
Bravo, LD, bravo!
Ah yes the ad hom attack. A sure sign someone has entered a battle of the wits quite unarmed.
Generally when one uses an ad hominem, that would be the case, except this time your claims had already been refuted, so why not?
AssHole S, you are a truck driver, and barely smart enough for that.
The american steel industry did not give millions to trudeau, the chinese did.
Remember when we were taught how bad the catholic church was for selling indulgences?
Yet buying indulgences from the liberals (whether it is corrupt trade rights, carbon trading, pot licenses, etc) makes one about as holy as one can get.
Maybe the Lieberal team let it happen to stoke the fires of Canadian nationalism and insecurity v.v USA.
Speaking of Chinese high quality steel, I’ve got a bridge in Victoria to sell you.
This bunch will let Canada get run over by a free trade steamroller just to enhance their diminishing standing.
Power.Power.Power. Will we ever wake up, or like Venezuela will we realize too late?
What makes you think Venezuela has realized anything yet?
There is no cure for socialism. I mean stupid. Well, their just synonyms anyway.
Damn couldn’t even get my clubs into the truck before I get a response that bolsters my argument. Thanks for that Shamrock! Just to push the point Canada produces so much steel and we have such an abundance of cheap power that we can’t build enough ships to replace our decrepit navy, and we produce so much aluminum that we don’t have an air-force. Even the subsidies to Bombardier aren’t enough to make Bombardier competitive on the world market. But Hey, Bring on the Decline and everything will be just coming up roses!!!! ROTFLMAO!
mmmhmmm.
one more way the Cdn consumer is now ‘quality control’ for all the chirese crapola floating across the pacific like so much flotsam.
gives new meaing to ‘chinese junk’.
but pm ponysocksturd “admires their basic dictatorship”
Undoubtedly, as with any thing the Lieberals do, there are probably very powerful interests that make a great deal of money brokering Chinese steal through Canada.
I am certain this was the real impetus behind the stoppage of the Energy East Pipeline. Denis Coderre, like any Lieberal politician, was paid off, or ordered by the collective owners of the Lieberal party to fight the project so that they could continue to broker large amounts of oil into Eastern Canada.
If Joe Two gets elected, perhaps an investigation could be launched (okay, okay, I know I like to dream too)
As Deep Throat said; “Follow the money”
So first it was American jobs, then it was national security, then Chinese steel, and now Chinese steel smuggled via Canada which doesnt happen.
They cant keep their story straight.
It’s all connected. The Chinese steel transshipped through Canada (and many other countries) has been an issue all along. And that connects to national security. Not surprised you can’t keep up.
Show me a case of Chinese steel shipped through canada to take advantage of nafta.
If they dont change the origin then its no different than cooking straight from china.
We are hooped – depressing read.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/06/21/canada-eu-and-germany-signal-compliance-with-president-trump-trade-demands/#more-150859
That site is even dumber than this one on trade.
Allan S: Your dumber than PM Sock Puppet!!!
P*$$ off, @&&-cheese. You find this site so dumb you can’t help hanging out here posting all day. Go stick your head in a bucket of water 3 times and take it out twice…
Every two year old child cries and screams when a playmate takes away their toy. And the Candian two year olds are screaming that Trump took away their toy! Wahhhh.
Sorry, you can’t keep stealing from your mates and expect no response.
My sincere hope is that Canada suffers a catastrophic Venezuelan type decline from this self-inflicted trade war. From those ashes will rise a newly formed Canadian Republic. This republic would not be bound to any Indian treaties or former Canadian international treaties. The newly minted sovereign Canadian citizen would have identical Rights afforded to their American cousins. Among those would be the Right to keep and bear arms in order to formulate an armed revolt against the socialist termites who work tirelessly to erode democratic governments into subservient organisms. The time for a Canadian revolution is now.
May God continue to bless the righteous Canadian patriot and may the real God (not Allah) smite the Crown and it’s insidious all encompassing power over the Canadian peasantry.
You had me until the “smite the Crown” part. Liz isn’t the problem here
So you would be okay with an uninterested plutocratic aloof foreigner being the Canadian Head of State, it’s Chief Executive, having plenary veto power over all laws and treaties, selecting by fiat all executive governmental positions of power, and exercising actual ownership over the Canadian government? ( hint…this is a trick question because this is the status quo today in the Dominion of Canada)
You’re talking about George Soros, right?
I think he is, as he would fit the description to a T. 😉
I’m not sure who you speaking of. We have an aloof plutocrat having complete veto power over executive decisions and appointments. Their ancestor foisted a foreign language and its customs upon the citizens of this country. Deciding which customs and laws they, at their sole discretion, choose to enforce. Whose only concern, at the end of the day, is not the “middle class and those who want to join them” but rolling up a big fatty and lying on the couch with a hand mirror.
I, for one, will think of the 120,000 plus young men that died under the Union Jack (not the thinly disguised fleur-de-lis we have ) or suffered terrible wounds to body and mind in service of the greatest distributor of freedom and civilization the World has seen. I will think of a young Princess that drove ambulances and became a mechanic while Europe surrendered to the nazi boot and Britain was bombed nightly. I will only regard in contempt and disgust a closeted, homosexual, “plutocrat” riding around Montreal on a motorcycle while others stepped up when their country, indeed the cause of freedom, called them.
All Elizabeth II and her father have been for me have been has been a symbol of service and continuity and our relationship with Great Britain. If you are glad that there is even an existence of another country on the North American continent, it is because of membership in the Empire and Commonwealth and the Royal Navy.
Liz is a great lady. Our current, sub-moronic, twit of a Prime Minister only makes me want to vomit. No Liz and we get the Laurentian elite permanently and irrevocably ensconced as our head of state
And another thing! All members of the Royal family serve in the Armed Forces. Perhaps they have only been in the REMF roles. However, in the case of Harry, he has actually seen combat. I am sorry, anyone that is willing to put on the uniform for even two years is far more qualified and entitled than some effeminate, virtue signalling, condescending, fatuous, former bouncer, former skiing instructor, former drama teacher, former…, narcissistic, greedy, disingenuous, insincere, piece of $%^ $()t that is our current Prime Minister
precisely.
the FACT there is STILL a COMMONWEALTH of former colonies etc *now independent nations* is testimony to the desirable stability and continuity that comes out of common interests and system, all under the umbrella of a CONSTITUTIONAL monarchy.
any whiners are stuck in the middle ages as far as typical behaviour of royals.
William and Harry’s generation is going to take said monarchy well into the next century.
I can feel it in me bones.
OK I asked this last month when the issue came up, maybe someone (Allan S) can explain the official US figures for steel imports. They also have the Canadian figures,
https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf
https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-Canada.pdf
Canada Imports for 2017 from US 4.8mmt
From China .8mmt
US Imports from Can 5.8 mmt
Why are Can Imports from China so low if the steel is being simply re-exported? If the total .8 mmt were simply sent to US that still is much less than the 5.8 mmt registered.
And it is shouldn’t be a matter of making products are shipping them southward, those value added products would show up in another category, not steel. And the reports list the various steel products.
If Canada is making the value added products shouldn’t the tariffs be on those not on the raw steel?
These figures are from US Int Trade Administration. They confirm the huge 2 way trade Can-US and analysis of these figures doesn’t point to a huge problem with Can trade in steel; if there is a problem why doesn’t it show up here? And I don’t believe the source of these numbers are simply fictitious. Anyone know?
It’s funny because Chinese steel isnt much different than American dairy. Heavily subsidized and keeps expanding even though market signals say not to.
Btw increased measures to prevent illegal trans shipped steel was announced in March.
There goes the narrative.
So if, as you say, there was no illegal trans shipped steel, why would there be a need to increase measures to prevent it?
To appease president fatso down south
“Sisters in Trade” … are now just scissoring each other in a darkened room. Sorry Canada … you are now isolated and humiliated.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/06/21/canada-eu-and-germany-signal-compliance-with-president-trump-trade-demands/
Back to Canada, and the ill-fated, now back-fired, scheme of Justin and Chrystia; standing naked and alone, as the reality of national economic interests has their former anti-Trump trade allies headed for the exits to save their industries.
Yikes, amid all of Canada’s uppity antagonism and demands for gender equity in NAFTA trade negotiations now they’re seriously exposed and more vulnerable than ever to Godzilla Trump and his “killers’. The sight of a grinning Robert Lighthizer demands another slowly savored winnamin…. delicious.
The poor, poor, sisterhood of Canada have been left dateless for the Prom. Enjoy your decline, Canada. MY President opened negotiations in good faith … but you let the leftists turn it into an exercise in TDS.
As usual, the devil is in the details. I would be very interested in knowing the amount of Chinese steel transshipped through Canada to the US, and the names of the companies that were importing and exporting it. Unless there are stats to back it up, the whole story is just gossip
These should show up as re-exports although the links provided don’t list them. Really must be some explanation re the US Trade Admin numbers. And Can Imports from China one would expect much higher numbers than .8 mmt.
Re exports and claiming a NAFTA exemption are two totally different things.
There is one fact that can’t be disputed: PM Sox and his trade team led by the journalist are in way over their heads and have nothing but contempt for their American counterparts.
Trudeau & Freeland keep calling the USA tariffs on steel and aluminum, insulting, illegal & calling Trump incompetent, dishonest and a threat to freedom and democracy by undermining the world order with his tariffs. Freeland even compared him to Hitler. Meanwhile as soon as the USA applied the tariffs, Canada’s newest bestest buddies said they would follow in Trumps footsteps cuz they were afraid that all that steel that was being dumped on the USA would now end up being dumped on the EU. What hypocrites.
“Malmstrom indicated that the third part of the EU response would be to initiate safeguard investigations of steel and aluminum that could quickly result in European trade restrictions that copy Trump’s. “
Eu is expected to take action in July.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-eu-malmstrom/eu-says-first-steel-safeguard-measures-could-come-in-july-idUSKCN1J01Z6
Not long after NAFTA was a reality I know that Canadians trucks were getting backhauls home by picking up off shore beef in reefer trailers in L.A.
Then when arriving at Canada Packers in Calgary inspectors would go through the trailer and stamp “Canada Packers” on the carcasses and then shut the doors and send the trailer back into the U.S to delivery!!
How do I know….I was in the truck.
I’ve loaded beef on trailers. You cannot actually enter a trailer of beef because it is packed so tightly, quarters hung high and low. However, I believe your story. We would slaughter old cows in Canada Packers Edmonton and ship them to Montreal and then order boxed beef back from Montreal. We would sell a carload of lard to Swifts Edmonton who then sold it to Canada Packers Vancouver. Absolutely none of it made sense. Gee, I wonder if that’s why Edmonton went from 4 big packing plants down to none?
I don’t quite get the logistics of all of this. Who was making money here?
According to Statistics Canada, there are over twice as many pork farms in Quebec than Alberta. My nephew used to haul boxed pork from Alberta to Quebec.
Canada takes in cheap chicom steel and re packages it as canadian to the US market. We call it ‘Canadian’ but the Americans mark it in their books as Chinese. This is not a simple book keeping error. It leads to how we report trade juxtaposed as to how the Americans do.
Follow the money. Who benefits from this dumping? I’m betting all the marbles it the quebek cabal of librano thieves who arrange all these ‘deals’ with their chicom friends.
OK then US steel imports from China should be huge in the pie charts in the link above. But China barely makes it into the top 10, 2% compared to Can at 17%.
If the steel is simply redirected it should show as re-export. Stats Can does report Can producing steel about 14 mmt.
So we need to look at whatever trade figures the US administration uses for their argument on steel dumping. Maybe someone can link these numbers.
You have to look at where we are getting our steel from, it might not be directly from China who has wised up and is adding extra cover by transhipping it first through Vietnam, who doesn’t have a big steel making capacity, the EU are already on their case about this;
https://agmetalminer.com/2016/11/16/eu-takes-action-against-transshipped-chinese-steel/
According to Historica Canada we are a net importer of steel and all of our steel mills are now foreign owned so if they are owned by the Chinese then I assume they wouldn’t rock too many boats about “rebadging” the steel. If you run it through the mill and put a zinc coating on it then it could be sold as “processed in Canada”.
The devil is in the detail and I am afraid we are on the wrong side of this argument, we have been touting ourselves as a “gateway to the US markets” to allow people to transship through us and it worked for a while, would have continued if Hillary had gotten elected too.
Please provide a reliable source for your claims. Making up a false mill cert for declaration at the border is a serious offense.
Source for Canada trade statistics from China, Custom basis 2017
$Cdn
Iron and Steel Imports 695,395,803
Re- Exports 3,502,080
Exports 168,256,556
The re-exports are only about .5% of imports suggesting all the imports were not simply redirected to US. This data base does not suggest massive re-export of iron and steel from any country and particularly not China. Dumping of steel by China would need analysis from sources other than US or Can official statistics.
See the trade data here official Can figures.
http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cimt-cicm/home-accueil?lang=eng
killing people is also a serious offence, butt shit boy, there are still murders. I know a guy who used to truck stolen Chrysler parts buy the trailer full from the USA to Canada, and some heroine to boot. Alla, you are a complete idiot if you think every one abides by laws rules and regulation. Hell, at Pearson airport there are lots “handlers” who a bought and paid for. So I’m sure there are some at the truck crossing as well. You should learn to STFU when you haven’t a clue as to what you are talking about.
The western nations had better wake up to the threat of China because it intends to dominate the world economically and then militarily, by any means necessary.
Trudeau is either corrupt, or stupid, or both, if he believes he can somehow con the Chinese into becoming Canada’s buddy. They don’t intend to have that sort of relationship with any of their trading partners.
Trump is right, it will be much better to have bilateral trade deals rather than these monstrosities like the WTO which was essential to China’s gaming the international trading system. The Chinese signed trade deals, and then went forward with a system of hugely subsidized capital investment to destroy its economic competitors in both high tech and low tech industries.
I think it strange that so-called leaders like Angela Merkel and Trudles who oppress the citizens of their own nation are taken as the moral arbiters of trade and what is fair and right when they so clearly don’t believe in giving their own citizens a fair deal.
The international trade order that has developed over the last 25 years is rotten and will destroy the prosperity of the west. And it is time for the western nations to wake up, and do their best to make their nations competitive again in the international market. They must go back and remove all the regulatory barriers they have put up that have destroyed manufacturing and energy production over the last 40 years. A good example are the so-called environmental regulations that eliminate very little pollution but make manufacturing and resource extraction uneconomic. Another Is energy production . Even the idiot Germans, who are holier than thou in the extreme with respect to green energy, have now realized that the sky high German cost of electricity is crippling their industry and reducing the profitability of their corporations. Electricity should be generated in the cheapest way possible. ( Ever notice that the left always talk about pollution as a side effect of electricity generation using fossil fuels but they never talk about how cheaper energy has the positive side effect of making the nation competitive in trade, and helping struggling households to make ends meet?). Infrastructure that will facilitate manufacturing has got to be built. California thought they were being ecologically smart by not building dams in the high Sierras, but now water costs are one of the things driving people out of California.
And maybe most important of all, the tax system has got to be revised to encourage investment in industry. This would include abolishing all corporate income tax and all taxation of personal income received by individuals in the form of dividends and interest on corporate bonds. There will be no jobs where there is no investment and Investment flows only to the location where the highest expected profit will be made. Being the second cheapest place to manufacture something is not good enough.
And lastly cut the size of government so that more money is left over to invest in the private sector and for households to spend on their own purposes.
You are correct. Canada is losing ground. Trump is on the right track. As for Trudeau: “Trudeau is either corrupt, or stupid, or both” — I am pretty sure it is both. When will Canadians wise up to this guy’s incompetence and to the overall screw-up by the Liberals on the trade file.