Should we move to proportional representation, I’m registering Party McPartyface with Elections Canada.
47 Replies to “Oh, Shiny Prime Minister!”
I am seriously considering running in the next federal election as part of the Rhinoceros Party. Under PR a Rhino could actually get into Parliament.
The whole goddamn thing’s a Blackadder episode waiting to happen.
Nothing like being lectured on the state of Canada’s democracy by a condescendingly ignorant immigrant and an arrogant anti Canadian Liberal. A Trudopian affirmative actioned sociopath. The Liberal Party sure has a habit of attracting the most divisive anti Canadian agitators don’t they, like that shit stain Pierre the Turd didn’t do enough dictatorial damage, now we have to suffer the dictates of his lispy imbecilic son. Hasn’t the Liberal Party and their media done enough damage and vandalizing of Canadian governance and democratic institutions already? One wonders why a detestable creature like Monsef would immigrate to such a backward “undemocratic” country in the first place. That ugly troll should be ashamed of herself, but shame would require a conscience which Monsef obviously lacks. The Liberal Party, their agitators and their enablers can all go to hell, they’re too stupid to tell me what to think and they’re too corrupt and ideologically warped to lecture me on the state of this wounded vandalized country.
I’m thinking The Cheap Beer Party, with a single-issue platform to match. Should split the student vote at the very least.
The goal of “Electoral Reform” is to end political accountability.
To get an idea of how bad can it be for a country watch BREXIT and you’ll see what happens to democracy. https://www.youtube.com/embed/UTMxfAkxfQ0
“Because it enables a party to form a majority government with less than 50 per cent of the vote, FPTP does very well on stability. By the same token, it also tends to ensure clean lines of accountability: voters know who to hold responsible, and to punish or reward as they see fit come election time. But FPTP is seen as doing less well when it comes to values such as deliberation and effective representation.”
So, FPTP excels at providing certainty (unambiguous winners and losers, a clear leader, “getting stuff done” — i.e., the stuff of election campaigns (and tyrannies)), but is weaker on actually representing the diversity of views among the electorate once the election ends (in parliamentary committees, in House debates, during voting of bills — i.e., the stuff of governing). So if you can improve on the electoral system’s representativeness while maintaining an acceptable level of stability, why wouldn’t you, aside from willful ignorance and/or the fear of change?
Having received about 2 votes out of every 5 during the last election, the Justin Trudeau Liberals remain in majority charge of your country for at least the next 1,255 days. Are you completely good with that?
Here’s Andrew Coyne, on electoral reform: news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-a-guide-to-a-guide-to-arguments-having-nothing-to-do-with-electoral-reform
There were several Beer Lovers Parties in eastern Europe after 1989. They were successful enough to elect several members to local parliaments.
Monsef seems to have a very poor understanding of democracy. I heard her inarticulate ramblings on the radio. Someone should remind her that we have been doing pretty well in Canada at democracy for the past 150 years, and the English speaking world for the past 800 years.
Now she wants to improve it by bringing Afghani democracy to Canada. Oh the joys.
BTW I have nothing against Monsef, who is an attractive Persian lady, but I do think the Liberals could have found someone more steeped in Western traditions to expound on the badness of the whole electoral system.
I only hope that some adult points out to Boy Wonder that he would not have a majority government in his system.
FPTP also gives us the opportunity to “throw the bums out”. With any PR system, the professional political class remain perpetually stuck to their entitlements.
Monsef is Justin’s pet Afghan, appointed to look pretty and diverse. They wouldn’t have, and didn’t, appoint her or anyone like her to a post with real responsibilities where her actions would have real consequences.
Because they won’t. In almost all developed countries, regardless of how the electoral system is organized, governments do what local and global elites tell them to do (let the elites steal everything of value and do what they please, keep labour cheap, deal harshly with any commoners who dare complain), not what the voters want them to do (see that the laws of their forefathers are strictly enforced against rich and poor, defend the nation from its enemies, keep the roads passable).
Even under first past the post the elites has no trouble removing Stephen Harper when he started sounding like he meant business about stopping Islamisation and taking the side of old-stock Canadians.
“FPTP also gives us the opportunity to ‘throw the bums out’. With any PR system, the professional political class remain perpetually stuck to their entitlements.”
Precisely. Every Canadian citizen has a vested interest in resisting the machinations of the political class. One way to do that is to ensure they do not get their way with this nonsense.
It could actually work in our favour. Assuming the experts figure out a workable system. I can see the urban elites fighting between themselves with Green, Liberal, NDP, Socialist, Communist etc all looking for a seat at the trough while a Western Canada Party unites all the parts of Canada that struggle for a voice now. Maybe the election wouldn’t be over before BC votes after all.
“Monsef seems to have a very poor understanding of democracy.”
Yup. But as long as she has an understanding of the intellect, concerns, and principles of most voters, then she doesn’t have to give a damn about the principles of democracy – because they sure don’t.
The proportional representation system puts parties ahead of voters. We will end up with Members of Parliament that nobody elected, responsible to no-one other than the Party that put them there. Sunni ways. Truly the Liberal Party really doesn’t want this. It means they will never have a majority, instead of having one more than half the time. Trudeau really is a retard.
While there are a few media voices rising that oppose this, there does not yet seem to have been a public outcry. There should be. Just imagine the deafening ourcry if Harper tried something like this. We heard some of that outcry with the relatively minor changes made to the Elections Act. There really is something wrong with Canadians. Their unquestioning support for the Liberal Party is a mental illness.
This should give favourable push to the Bloc. I can see a Bloc/Western Conservative coalition, while other groups split their votes. A Liberal/Muslim Brotherhood coalition is another possibility.
Every party that has strategists with a decent amount of grey matter will find ways to exploit the electoral system. Personally, as a libertarian, I’d like to see a party or two that promotes more personal and economic freedom without social conservatives and progressive conservative policies. Perhaps libertarians in the CPC might break off and form a new party. Rona Ambrose, Max Bernier?
I’d also support a party that defends Western Canadian interests. Central Canada’s population, Quebec’s special status and the quirks in the political system that gives the Martimes extra MPs and senators means we need a strong voice to prevent being ripped off.
By refusing a referendum and stacking the committee, the Liberals must realize that they have legitimized that system for any future changes to the electoral system. Right?!
I’ve long been opposed to PR but have recently come around to the idea. Harper is a good man and had some good support, but accomplished very little. Trying to run coast to coast to coast forced him into too many concessions. He really was our last best hope. Reform doesnt exist any more, without it CPC will go back to the Eastern money. National parties holding control of riding nominations and promotions within government has assured that no MP speaks or acts without permission. I think of the old joke: they have elections in USSR but there’s only one party to vote for. Canada they wear red/blue/green/orange. All the same. PR offers the opportunity to get an “outside” voice other than Elizabeth May into government. Opponents only see more May clones, but how else could we get, say, Taxpayers Federation into Parliament? maybe Levant? Anthony Watts? or even our own humble hosts here? Online campaigning costs no signs, conventions, knocking doors, begging. really wouldnt need fundraising. MP is a pretty sweet job. A single issue MP, elected by a single issue national party could get away with only spending a couple weeks a year in Ottawa. Advocate, criticize, make FOIA requests all from home while getting paid. I really think PR could be a trojan horse to destroy the party system from within.
Anyway, not going anywhere any time soon, it’s just the most current Lieberal lie being exposed. How can they justify this complete transformation of our democracy, saying FPTP elects the wrong governments, while they sit in government? Lieberals will only get serious about PR when theyre back in the wilderness. Justin’s a young man and the stress from making decisions that ages many leaders won’t affect him. could be a long reign
Every time I see Trudeau on TV, which is most every day,I think of Kim Jong-il. I expect the CBC to have a news report any day now where he played 18 holes of golf and got 18 holes in one.
Every time I see Trudeau on TV Which is about every hour of the day, I reminds me of Kim Jong-il. Any day now I expect the CBC to have a story,2624 where he played 18 holes of golf and he got 18 holes in one
Oxes get gored no matter which system you put in place. Even a more granular FPTP system will dilute current rural power versus urban power. Example, cut ridings at 60,000 people ( a small city) and you would be adding seats to urban centres. Mind you, you may actually get more conservative urban seats.
But that is only reform you can put in place without likely court challenges. Any pur PR system will not happen. Georgraphic ridings are in the constitution, no changes without constitution.
You might get STV, but groups are already on to that as being transparently Liberal….so compromises go to having MMP….but that adds MP’s which brings you back to the smaller ridings option.
All this presumes you need lots of change.
Of course anything without a referendum is a problem (except smaller ridings)
The idea to jam it through was ill conceived. The launch was terrible and the Libs are taking lots of fire over it. The minister (is it Monsef or LeBlanc, confusion already) isn’t wholeheartedly behind it. The PM is good at events but not deep discussion or handling principled or reasonable criticisms of his plans.
Final point, if there was anything, absolutely anything, in this country that required “social license” and consent its the voting system. For a group that spends so much talking about that with anything like pipelines or development they completely lose their minds on electoral systems and want to jam through….for the same reasons the Harper government changed rules on environmental review (correctly in my estimation) the files wouldn’t move forward as there were too many tools to oppose. With pipelines there had been significant reviews, I’ll never understand why they didn’t punt this to a Royal Commission, assuming they even wanted build consensus on electoral reform, a debatable point.
Its a mess, its a black hole of endless possibilities and there are options open for incremental change that would be simple to implement. It is being seen as a power grab, as it should be.
Term limits for all, particularly including the SCOC. No one qualifies for pensions and no one runs for re-election. All MPs to be held personally responsible to fund any deficits. There, problem fixed.
Tell us Now!
The Advantages of a Franco-Canadian Birth in Canada has made Anglo-Canadians the Dis-Advantaged Canadian.——–The only Doubt About the Future is;—— will The Culture Advantage of Franco-Canadians be as easily set aside to continue the present Cutural Advantage Focus of the First Immigran Tribal Families using Anglo-Canadian Tax-Dollars?
Will the Franco-Canadian Culture be as Guilted was Guilted the Anglo-Canadians?
The Cultural Advantaged of Canada’s Provinces Now rests with the Franco-Canadian Culture.
The First stage of any Democratic Representation Change must be a relevelling of the Regional Re-distribution of Ordinary Canadian Tax-Payer funding of this Current and long standing Dis-Advantage for Ontario and Increasingly for Western Canada.
It is my thinking the Bureacracy and Political Will of the Ottawa Tax-payer Funding Largesse of Canada will never leave it’s Focus On Franco-Canadian Culture. There will always be a Geographic Pressure and Bias for the Administration of Canada’s Constitution and Tax spending towards and for the Franco Canadian Culture.
This portents is a bleak future for the Anglo-Canadian culture in Ontario.
A realistic solution is to set aside the “hurt pride” of the Denizens of Ottawa.
Leave the Ottawa Bureacracy and Politicians with Quebec; let the Citizens of Ontario, from all Cultures focus on the Western Canada.
Ottawa; with Quebec will then be free then to brokerage Politic the Maritime/Atlantic to the Laurentien Elite heart’s content. If the Toronto Branch of the Central Canada Triangle Laurentien Elite wants to stick with Quebec.— So be it.
There is no great difficulty in a Duplication of the Mile Zero Highway, between the Province of British Columbia and the State of Washington in Southwestern Ontario-including the Niagara Region.The Zero Highway Precedent of British Columbia has worked successfully for Decades. Probably in reality for more than a Century.
The day they change the way we elect our government is the day we may as well stop voting.
I am deeply offended listening to the likes of Monsef lecturing to us on something she is not qualified to do. She doesn’t know her arse from page six, she’s taking orders from the same people advising her so-called leader. Canada is on the path to destroying our historical connections to Great Britain by this Liberal majority government and by people who we do not even elect
calling the shots.
My take-away here is that we should not be messing with the system at all, but if Pm Selfie manages to replace FRTP with some other cobbled-up wreck, we small-C conservatives should be giving serious thought on how to best game the system in our favour in the subsequent election. Up to and including forming stalking-horse splinter parties to dilute and fragment the Leftard vote.
Unlike many here I’m all for PR. However it is a decidedly different PR than most are advocating. PR voting should be decided at the lowest end of the political spectrum, the voter. The PR vote cast should be decided upon the amount of input that the voter contributes to society, and I don’t mean cash input. Convicted felons serving time no vote! Welfare recipients no vote! Aboriginals living on reserve no vote! Federal Government employees a reduced ballot. Provincial Government employees a reduced ballot. Municipal Government employees a reduced ballot. It is way past time to eliminate the graft and corruption that now exists in the Parliament. Before running for office you must prove that you have been a contributing member of our society for a minimum of twenty five years ( amazingly that would eliminate over fifty percent of today’s sitting members). Term limits in office and retirement income limited to voter percentage in the final election. This should open up a whole discussion and anybody wanting to brand me a racist or a hater feel free to belly up to the bar because as Pat Condell has declared “I DON’T GIVE A DAMN!!!!”
I wish!
I would love to run a dachshund named Colin as prime minister!
Absolutely the libs want a PR system.
Consider the 2011 election that gave Harper a majority government with less than 40% of the vote.
If we were in a PR system at that time the dips with 30%, libs 19%, greens 4% we would have a coalition left wing government with Jack Layton as PM, until he died of course…but thats another story.
Unless the cons can get 51% on their own, they will never govern. None of the other parties would ever coalesce with them.
PR means libs will be in power in some capacity forever…and ever. It already seems like that.
I’m not sure Pm Selfie and the condescending Monsef even understand the difference between FPTP and PR. Its the Buttheads and the UN that are probably pushing for a new electoral system. The Liberals have a majority and a stacked electoral reform committee and 3 plus more years to destroy the country with their progressive crap,that could only be undone by a conservative majotity. PR ensures a progressive/leftist/socialist coalition will reign for many years.
PR utter disaster:
– committee chosen to get rid of FPTP conforms to that, not PR; big flapping totalitarian red flag signaling the fix and the usual double standard.
– some MPs (50 Grits if last results changed to PR) who receive plurality of votes don’t become MP, voters get maybe different MP &/or different party.
– MPs chosen from leaders’ lists. Sure 90% proper choice. What about 10% of disenfranchised voters? We need more elitism and establishment idiots?
– fringe parties enter for elixic 5% of popular or whatever threshold for seats. Already unacceptable politicization taken to new level of bribery & corruption.
– pizza parliaments result, even less effective than now where political calculated before ramming through legislation.
– as fringe parties emerge, political and pleasing/bribing Liz Mays of the world new priority; never voters. National interest eroded further by petty issues.
– moderate libertarian party, squished between Tories and Grit voters, emerges to garner second place votes/seats.
– ironically, could force plurality choice back onto PR at ridings, maybe some seats/balance of power for moderate grass roots anti-establishment party.
– this new party could also appeal to grass roots, anti-establishment types in all parties.
– retorts have just begun with successful legal challenges likely to follow; they’re too tin eared to realize they’ve jumped the shark, fed by altered egos.
– in a way this is good; it keeps MPs busy on futile attempt to change voting system, so less damage done elsewhere on economy and freedom.
– will not be decided before next election, so will be real issue then or, more likely, Grits drop it confident they can repeat their 2015 performance.
– iow more BS from the training wheels government more committed to photo-ops, conferences, or empty rhetoric.
– if Grits ram this through they will even lose some of the mediocracy allies; until next election.
– statists see this as nectar to institutionalize bigger government and political correctness.
– even more power given over our lives to enlightened despots to decide our MPs, charity, activities and beliefs.
– reinforcing idea elites decide our level of governance, already replete with failure and out of control.
No doubt they’ll go for it, being totalitarians. They’re in for a big fight with legal and political embarrassment to follow; likely their worst gong show thus far (quite an achievement btw). So I say bring it on. This is a great fight for the new Tory leadership to cut their teeth with little political capital at risk.
Screw PR.
I want none of the above.
Every ballot should offer the voting citizen honest choice.
I am sick of choosing between thieving psychopaths.
None of the above should be on every ballot, if the majority of voters chose to refuse what the parties are pouring, then so be it.
New slate of candidates.
Fire then all.
The sheer lack of conviction from these Libtards is amusing…If PR is so great..how about we have a vote(referendum) on it?
If Canadians allow this change to happen, they have only themselves to blame. If Jr were to meet with several hundred protesters every time he appeared at a photo shoot, if a demonstration of 3000 people stormed parliament hill, he would quickly shelve this ill conceived idea. After all, liberals have done rather well over the past 100 years with the present system.
His father totally revamped Canada in every way imaginable in 16 years in office; Jr only wants to better this record, he doesn’t really care that much what is changed as long as he does it.
A lot of the changes Trudeau Sr. initiated could have been prevented with firmer, principled opposition, Canadians are and were too docile in the face of changes to their customs and traditions.
One prime example is the conversion to a metric
system. Forty years into the conversion and we are still half metric, half imperial and generally half assed as to what our measurement system really is. I see no way forward and no going back, government controlled spheres weather reports, highway signs, the CBC of course are metric, other areas remain solidly imperial and will for some time.
The Americans at the time (1970) also paid lip service to converting to the world metric system.The difference is no government, congress or any political movement could dare attempt to alter something as basic as their measuring units. Any attempt would meet massive resistance. Canadians acquiesced, and for no appreciable gain whatsoever.
Let’s hope we have learned something from the first go round of Trudeau government, a bit of back bone is called for regarding changes to how our votes are counted.
One person, one vote. FPTP forever.
Except we really do need to convince the long dead to stop voting Liberal.
I am still baffled by their reluctance to “let go” and leave the living in peace.
How do they do it?
Returning every 4 years and voting Libtard faithfully?
Is this proof of increased brain death after death?
Re: ”I am seriously considering running in the next federal election as part of the Rhinoceros Party. Under PR a Rhino could actually get into Parliament.”
That’s what Trudeau wants you to do. Even if you got in as a Rhino, you’d a 2-3 members at best. What good would that do??
There’s a lot better way out of this Liberal mess. Get Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Eastern BC (Conservative portion) and form an independent state. We’d have oil, lumber, uranium, farm land, fresh water and freedom. What more do we need??
I laughed out loud at “Party McPartyface”!
Meanwhile, here’s a scenario:
The Liberals institute a modified proportional representation with a 5% vote threshold (which is not genuine PR, by the way).
The left’s vote splinters among several parties each of whom gets only 4%.
Voilà! The Conservatives are the only party with seats in Parliament.
If anyone thinks that the Liberals are going to devise a system of voting that favors any party other than the Liberals, they are delusional.
If the Liberals think that the voters will be held back from throwing them (or anyone) out just because of some idiotic voting system, if the voters are so inclined, they are delusional.
that’s a democracy.
a republic is 2 wolves and a sheep
but the sheep is arm’d
even his wife admits it!
The purported rationale for changing the voting system is to “make every vote count”. The underlying whine to that phrase is “My vote didn’t count because my candidate didn’t win”. Boo hoo!
It is scary enough that the Liberals succeeded in hoodwinking the electorate last October, getting 184 seats under the FPTP system. But under the preferential ballot system, which apparently they favour, the election would have resulted in 224 seats going to the Liberals. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-preferential-ballot-1.3332566
The Conservative party should get very articulate MPs to explain the consequences of changing the voting system that has served Canada well for nearly 150 years. Or have all those past Liberal governments been illegitimate?
when 39.42% of the vote gets a majority government something has to change. we now experience the tyranny of the minority as opposed to the tyranny of the majority, 39% is not a majority.
According to the article, instead of Grits getting 54% of seats with 39% of the popular vote, but would get 75% of the seats under the “more democratic” preferential system, where over half of first place votes are overturned by their so-called second choice? No, it must reckon with the popular vote.
Unless of course we change the terminology. How about the party received 75% of the net vote, rather than the troublesome popular vote? Didn’t Dubya get away with that? Never discount the goofy rationale statists regularly use, along with shouting you down that is.
Though I think already dead, anything they propose this obscene as the article Gabby cited might just get Canadians off their butts and into Timmies parking lots everywhere; OK somewhere. As I’ve said, I know they’ll try; so be it. Let’s roll, thanks for the issue.
How about a Black Oil Pipeline Party? BOPP. Those who support putting black oil in pipelines could declare independence over the ridings for which they elect members. If they get enough contiguous ridings between the oil producing ridings and port ridings they could declare that corridor independent and build their pipeline. Let’s BOPP it!
Frankly PMSP’s (Prime Minister Shiny Pony) approach on the voting system reminds me of the result of the successful Arab Spring movement in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood’s Morsi got in and then changed the system to try and insure he was in forever. It took a coup to stop him. Remember PMSP telegraphed his admiration for dictatorships — like Chinas. Morsi and Chinese Dictators were not so far apart. Monsef is from PMSP’s favoured voting block. When one of her peaceful co-religionists went on a peace spreading effort PMSP showed up in Monsef’s Peterbourough mosk to lecture us on why we shouldn’t be so is-lamb-a-fobik.
Just saying.
This needs to go to a wider jury than a parliamentary committee, and hopefully the people will show some common sense and stick with FPTP. These other schemes would never have been invented if there were any chance of them benefitting conservatism. Maybe we should dream up our own scheme, OOVC (only our votes count).
I am seriously considering running in the next federal election as part of the Rhinoceros Party. Under PR a Rhino could actually get into Parliament.
The whole goddamn thing’s a Blackadder episode waiting to happen.
Nothing like being lectured on the state of Canada’s democracy by a condescendingly ignorant immigrant and an arrogant anti Canadian Liberal. A Trudopian affirmative actioned sociopath. The Liberal Party sure has a habit of attracting the most divisive anti Canadian agitators don’t they, like that shit stain Pierre the Turd didn’t do enough dictatorial damage, now we have to suffer the dictates of his lispy imbecilic son. Hasn’t the Liberal Party and their media done enough damage and vandalizing of Canadian governance and democratic institutions already? One wonders why a detestable creature like Monsef would immigrate to such a backward “undemocratic” country in the first place. That ugly troll should be ashamed of herself, but shame would require a conscience which Monsef obviously lacks. The Liberal Party, their agitators and their enablers can all go to hell, they’re too stupid to tell me what to think and they’re too corrupt and ideologically warped to lecture me on the state of this wounded vandalized country.
I’m thinking The Cheap Beer Party, with a single-issue platform to match. Should split the student vote at the very least.
The goal of “Electoral Reform” is to end political accountability.
To get an idea of how bad can it be for a country watch BREXIT and you’ll see what happens to democracy.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/UTMxfAkxfQ0
“Because it enables a party to form a majority government with less than 50 per cent of the vote, FPTP does very well on stability. By the same token, it also tends to ensure clean lines of accountability: voters know who to hold responsible, and to punish or reward as they see fit come election time. But FPTP is seen as doing less well when it comes to values such as deliberation and effective representation.”
So, FPTP excels at providing certainty (unambiguous winners and losers, a clear leader, “getting stuff done” — i.e., the stuff of election campaigns (and tyrannies)), but is weaker on actually representing the diversity of views among the electorate once the election ends (in parliamentary committees, in House debates, during voting of bills — i.e., the stuff of governing). So if you can improve on the electoral system’s representativeness while maintaining an acceptable level of stability, why wouldn’t you, aside from willful ignorance and/or the fear of change?
Having received about 2 votes out of every 5 during the last election, the Justin Trudeau Liberals remain in majority charge of your country for at least the next 1,255 days. Are you completely good with that?
Here’s Andrew Coyne, on electoral reform: news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-a-guide-to-a-guide-to-arguments-having-nothing-to-do-with-electoral-reform
There were several Beer Lovers Parties in eastern Europe after 1989. They were successful enough to elect several members to local parliaments.
Monsef seems to have a very poor understanding of democracy. I heard her inarticulate ramblings on the radio. Someone should remind her that we have been doing pretty well in Canada at democracy for the past 150 years, and the English speaking world for the past 800 years.
Now she wants to improve it by bringing Afghani democracy to Canada. Oh the joys.
BTW I have nothing against Monsef, who is an attractive Persian lady, but I do think the Liberals could have found someone more steeped in Western traditions to expound on the badness of the whole electoral system.
I only hope that some adult points out to Boy Wonder that he would not have a majority government in his system.
FPTP also gives us the opportunity to “throw the bums out”. With any PR system, the professional political class remain perpetually stuck to their entitlements.
Monsef is Justin’s pet Afghan, appointed to look pretty and diverse. They wouldn’t have, and didn’t, appoint her or anyone like her to a post with real responsibilities where her actions would have real consequences.
Because they won’t. In almost all developed countries, regardless of how the electoral system is organized, governments do what local and global elites tell them to do (let the elites steal everything of value and do what they please, keep labour cheap, deal harshly with any commoners who dare complain), not what the voters want them to do (see that the laws of their forefathers are strictly enforced against rich and poor, defend the nation from its enemies, keep the roads passable).
Even under first past the post the elites has no trouble removing Stephen Harper when he started sounding like he meant business about stopping Islamisation and taking the side of old-stock Canadians.
“FPTP also gives us the opportunity to ‘throw the bums out’. With any PR system, the professional political class remain perpetually stuck to their entitlements.”
Precisely. Every Canadian citizen has a vested interest in resisting the machinations of the political class. One way to do that is to ensure they do not get their way with this nonsense.
I don’t see any conservatives supporting PR.
http://www.fairvote.ca/
It could actually work in our favour. Assuming the experts figure out a workable system. I can see the urban elites fighting between themselves with Green, Liberal, NDP, Socialist, Communist etc all looking for a seat at the trough while a Western Canada Party unites all the parts of Canada that struggle for a voice now. Maybe the election wouldn’t be over before BC votes after all.
“Monsef seems to have a very poor understanding of democracy.”
Yup. But as long as she has an understanding of the intellect, concerns, and principles of most voters, then she doesn’t have to give a damn about the principles of democracy – because they sure don’t.
The proportional representation system puts parties ahead of voters. We will end up with Members of Parliament that nobody elected, responsible to no-one other than the Party that put them there. Sunni ways. Truly the Liberal Party really doesn’t want this. It means they will never have a majority, instead of having one more than half the time. Trudeau really is a retard.
While there are a few media voices rising that oppose this, there does not yet seem to have been a public outcry. There should be. Just imagine the deafening ourcry if Harper tried something like this. We heard some of that outcry with the relatively minor changes made to the Elections Act. There really is something wrong with Canadians. Their unquestioning support for the Liberal Party is a mental illness.
This should give favourable push to the Bloc. I can see a Bloc/Western Conservative coalition, while other groups split their votes. A Liberal/Muslim Brotherhood coalition is another possibility.
Every party that has strategists with a decent amount of grey matter will find ways to exploit the electoral system. Personally, as a libertarian, I’d like to see a party or two that promotes more personal and economic freedom without social conservatives and progressive conservative policies. Perhaps libertarians in the CPC might break off and form a new party. Rona Ambrose, Max Bernier?
I’d also support a party that defends Western Canadian interests. Central Canada’s population, Quebec’s special status and the quirks in the political system that gives the Martimes extra MPs and senators means we need a strong voice to prevent being ripped off.
By refusing a referendum and stacking the committee, the Liberals must realize that they have legitimized that system for any future changes to the electoral system. Right?!
I’ve long been opposed to PR but have recently come around to the idea. Harper is a good man and had some good support, but accomplished very little. Trying to run coast to coast to coast forced him into too many concessions. He really was our last best hope. Reform doesnt exist any more, without it CPC will go back to the Eastern money. National parties holding control of riding nominations and promotions within government has assured that no MP speaks or acts without permission. I think of the old joke: they have elections in USSR but there’s only one party to vote for. Canada they wear red/blue/green/orange. All the same. PR offers the opportunity to get an “outside” voice other than Elizabeth May into government. Opponents only see more May clones, but how else could we get, say, Taxpayers Federation into Parliament? maybe Levant? Anthony Watts? or even our own humble hosts here? Online campaigning costs no signs, conventions, knocking doors, begging. really wouldnt need fundraising. MP is a pretty sweet job. A single issue MP, elected by a single issue national party could get away with only spending a couple weeks a year in Ottawa. Advocate, criticize, make FOIA requests all from home while getting paid. I really think PR could be a trojan horse to destroy the party system from within.
Anyway, not going anywhere any time soon, it’s just the most current Lieberal lie being exposed. How can they justify this complete transformation of our democracy, saying FPTP elects the wrong governments, while they sit in government? Lieberals will only get serious about PR when theyre back in the wilderness. Justin’s a young man and the stress from making decisions that ages many leaders won’t affect him. could be a long reign
Every time I see Trudeau on TV, which is most every day,I think of Kim Jong-il. I expect the CBC to have a news report any day now where he played 18 holes of golf and got 18 holes in one.
Every time I see Trudeau on TV Which is about every hour of the day, I reminds me of Kim Jong-il. Any day now I expect the CBC to have a story,2624 where he played 18 holes of golf and he got 18 holes in one
Oxes get gored no matter which system you put in place. Even a more granular FPTP system will dilute current rural power versus urban power. Example, cut ridings at 60,000 people ( a small city) and you would be adding seats to urban centres. Mind you, you may actually get more conservative urban seats.
But that is only reform you can put in place without likely court challenges. Any pur PR system will not happen. Georgraphic ridings are in the constitution, no changes without constitution.
You might get STV, but groups are already on to that as being transparently Liberal….so compromises go to having MMP….but that adds MP’s which brings you back to the smaller ridings option.
All this presumes you need lots of change.
Of course anything without a referendum is a problem (except smaller ridings)
The idea to jam it through was ill conceived. The launch was terrible and the Libs are taking lots of fire over it. The minister (is it Monsef or LeBlanc, confusion already) isn’t wholeheartedly behind it. The PM is good at events but not deep discussion or handling principled or reasonable criticisms of his plans.
Final point, if there was anything, absolutely anything, in this country that required “social license” and consent its the voting system. For a group that spends so much talking about that with anything like pipelines or development they completely lose their minds on electoral systems and want to jam through….for the same reasons the Harper government changed rules on environmental review (correctly in my estimation) the files wouldn’t move forward as there were too many tools to oppose. With pipelines there had been significant reviews, I’ll never understand why they didn’t punt this to a Royal Commission, assuming they even wanted build consensus on electoral reform, a debatable point.
Its a mess, its a black hole of endless possibilities and there are options open for incremental change that would be simple to implement. It is being seen as a power grab, as it should be.
Term limits for all, particularly including the SCOC. No one qualifies for pensions and no one runs for re-election. All MPs to be held personally responsible to fund any deficits. There, problem fixed.
Tell us Now!
The Advantages of a Franco-Canadian Birth in Canada has made Anglo-Canadians the Dis-Advantaged Canadian.——–The only Doubt About the Future is;—— will The Culture Advantage of Franco-Canadians be as easily set aside to continue the present Cutural Advantage Focus of the First Immigran Tribal Families using Anglo-Canadian Tax-Dollars?
Will the Franco-Canadian Culture be as Guilted was Guilted the Anglo-Canadians?
The Cultural Advantaged of Canada’s Provinces Now rests with the Franco-Canadian Culture.
The First stage of any Democratic Representation Change must be a relevelling of the Regional Re-distribution of Ordinary Canadian Tax-Payer funding of this Current and long standing Dis-Advantage for Ontario and Increasingly for Western Canada.
It is my thinking the Bureacracy and Political Will of the Ottawa Tax-payer Funding Largesse of Canada will never leave it’s Focus On Franco-Canadian Culture. There will always be a Geographic Pressure and Bias for the Administration of Canada’s Constitution and Tax spending towards and for the Franco Canadian Culture.
This portents is a bleak future for the Anglo-Canadian culture in Ontario.
A realistic solution is to set aside the “hurt pride” of the Denizens of Ottawa.
Leave the Ottawa Bureacracy and Politicians with Quebec; let the Citizens of Ontario, from all Cultures focus on the Western Canada.
Ottawa; with Quebec will then be free then to brokerage Politic the Maritime/Atlantic to the Laurentien Elite heart’s content. If the Toronto Branch of the Central Canada Triangle Laurentien Elite wants to stick with Quebec.— So be it.
There is no great difficulty in a Duplication of the Mile Zero Highway, between the Province of British Columbia and the State of Washington in Southwestern Ontario-including the Niagara Region.The Zero Highway Precedent of British Columbia has worked successfully for Decades. Probably in reality for more than a Century.
The day they change the way we elect our government is the day we may as well stop voting.
I am deeply offended listening to the likes of Monsef lecturing to us on something she is not qualified to do. She doesn’t know her arse from page six, she’s taking orders from the same people advising her so-called leader. Canada is on the path to destroying our historical connections to Great Britain by this Liberal majority government and by people who we do not even elect
calling the shots.
My take-away here is that we should not be messing with the system at all, but if Pm Selfie manages to replace FRTP with some other cobbled-up wreck, we small-C conservatives should be giving serious thought on how to best game the system in our favour in the subsequent election. Up to and including forming stalking-horse splinter parties to dilute and fragment the Leftard vote.
Unlike many here I’m all for PR. However it is a decidedly different PR than most are advocating. PR voting should be decided at the lowest end of the political spectrum, the voter. The PR vote cast should be decided upon the amount of input that the voter contributes to society, and I don’t mean cash input. Convicted felons serving time no vote! Welfare recipients no vote! Aboriginals living on reserve no vote! Federal Government employees a reduced ballot. Provincial Government employees a reduced ballot. Municipal Government employees a reduced ballot. It is way past time to eliminate the graft and corruption that now exists in the Parliament. Before running for office you must prove that you have been a contributing member of our society for a minimum of twenty five years ( amazingly that would eliminate over fifty percent of today’s sitting members). Term limits in office and retirement income limited to voter percentage in the final election. This should open up a whole discussion and anybody wanting to brand me a racist or a hater feel free to belly up to the bar because as Pat Condell has declared “I DON’T GIVE A DAMN!!!!”
I wish!
I would love to run a dachshund named Colin as prime minister!
Absolutely the libs want a PR system.
Consider the 2011 election that gave Harper a majority government with less than 40% of the vote.
If we were in a PR system at that time the dips with 30%, libs 19%, greens 4% we would have a coalition left wing government with Jack Layton as PM, until he died of course…but thats another story.
Unless the cons can get 51% on their own, they will never govern. None of the other parties would ever coalesce with them.
PR means libs will be in power in some capacity forever…and ever. It already seems like that.
I’m not sure Pm Selfie and the condescending Monsef even understand the difference between FPTP and PR. Its the Buttheads and the UN that are probably pushing for a new electoral system. The Liberals have a majority and a stacked electoral reform committee and 3 plus more years to destroy the country with their progressive crap,that could only be undone by a conservative majotity. PR ensures a progressive/leftist/socialist coalition will reign for many years.
PR utter disaster:
– committee chosen to get rid of FPTP conforms to that, not PR; big flapping totalitarian red flag signaling the fix and the usual double standard.
– some MPs (50 Grits if last results changed to PR) who receive plurality of votes don’t become MP, voters get maybe different MP &/or different party.
– MPs chosen from leaders’ lists. Sure 90% proper choice. What about 10% of disenfranchised voters? We need more elitism and establishment idiots?
– fringe parties enter for elixic 5% of popular or whatever threshold for seats. Already unacceptable politicization taken to new level of bribery & corruption.
– pizza parliaments result, even less effective than now where political calculated before ramming through legislation.
– as fringe parties emerge, political and pleasing/bribing Liz Mays of the world new priority; never voters. National interest eroded further by petty issues.
– moderate libertarian party, squished between Tories and Grit voters, emerges to garner second place votes/seats.
– ironically, could force plurality choice back onto PR at ridings, maybe some seats/balance of power for moderate grass roots anti-establishment party.
– this new party could also appeal to grass roots, anti-establishment types in all parties.
– retorts have just begun with successful legal challenges likely to follow; they’re too tin eared to realize they’ve jumped the shark, fed by altered egos.
– in a way this is good; it keeps MPs busy on futile attempt to change voting system, so less damage done elsewhere on economy and freedom.
– will not be decided before next election, so will be real issue then or, more likely, Grits drop it confident they can repeat their 2015 performance.
– iow more BS from the training wheels government more committed to photo-ops, conferences, or empty rhetoric.
– if Grits ram this through they will even lose some of the mediocracy allies; until next election.
– statists see this as nectar to institutionalize bigger government and political correctness.
– even more power given over our lives to enlightened despots to decide our MPs, charity, activities and beliefs.
– reinforcing idea elites decide our level of governance, already replete with failure and out of control.
No doubt they’ll go for it, being totalitarians. They’re in for a big fight with legal and political embarrassment to follow; likely their worst gong show thus far (quite an achievement btw). So I say bring it on. This is a great fight for the new Tory leadership to cut their teeth with little political capital at risk.
Screw PR.
I want none of the above.
Every ballot should offer the voting citizen honest choice.
I am sick of choosing between thieving psychopaths.
None of the above should be on every ballot, if the majority of voters chose to refuse what the parties are pouring, then so be it.
New slate of candidates.
Fire then all.
The sheer lack of conviction from these Libtards is amusing…If PR is so great..how about we have a vote(referendum) on it?
If Canadians allow this change to happen, they have only themselves to blame. If Jr were to meet with several hundred protesters every time he appeared at a photo shoot, if a demonstration of 3000 people stormed parliament hill, he would quickly shelve this ill conceived idea. After all, liberals have done rather well over the past 100 years with the present system.
His father totally revamped Canada in every way imaginable in 16 years in office; Jr only wants to better this record, he doesn’t really care that much what is changed as long as he does it.
A lot of the changes Trudeau Sr. initiated could have been prevented with firmer, principled opposition, Canadians are and were too docile in the face of changes to their customs and traditions.
One prime example is the conversion to a metric
system. Forty years into the conversion and we are still half metric, half imperial and generally half assed as to what our measurement system really is. I see no way forward and no going back, government controlled spheres weather reports, highway signs, the CBC of course are metric, other areas remain solidly imperial and will for some time.
The Americans at the time (1970) also paid lip service to converting to the world metric system.The difference is no government, congress or any political movement could dare attempt to alter something as basic as their measuring units. Any attempt would meet massive resistance. Canadians acquiesced, and for no appreciable gain whatsoever.
Let’s hope we have learned something from the first go round of Trudeau government, a bit of back bone is called for regarding changes to how our votes are counted.
One person, one vote. FPTP forever.
Except we really do need to convince the long dead to stop voting Liberal.
I am still baffled by their reluctance to “let go” and leave the living in peace.
How do they do it?
Returning every 4 years and voting Libtard faithfully?
Is this proof of increased brain death after death?
Re: ”I am seriously considering running in the next federal election as part of the Rhinoceros Party. Under PR a Rhino could actually get into Parliament.”
That’s what Trudeau wants you to do. Even if you got in as a Rhino, you’d a 2-3 members at best. What good would that do??
There’s a lot better way out of this Liberal mess. Get Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Eastern BC (Conservative portion) and form an independent state. We’d have oil, lumber, uranium, farm land, fresh water and freedom. What more do we need??
I laughed out loud at “Party McPartyface”!
Meanwhile, here’s a scenario:
The Liberals institute a modified proportional representation with a 5% vote threshold (which is not genuine PR, by the way).
The left’s vote splinters among several parties each of whom gets only 4%.
Voilà! The Conservatives are the only party with seats in Parliament.
If anyone thinks that the Liberals are going to devise a system of voting that favors any party other than the Liberals, they are delusional.
If the Liberals think that the voters will be held back from throwing them (or anyone) out just because of some idiotic voting system, if the voters are so inclined, they are delusional.
that’s a democracy.
a republic is 2 wolves and a sheep
but the sheep is arm’d
even his wife admits it!
The purported rationale for changing the voting system is to “make every vote count”. The underlying whine to that phrase is “My vote didn’t count because my candidate didn’t win”. Boo hoo!
It is scary enough that the Liberals succeeded in hoodwinking the electorate last October, getting 184 seats under the FPTP system. But under the preferential ballot system, which apparently they favour, the election would have resulted in 224 seats going to the Liberals.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-preferential-ballot-1.3332566
The Conservative party should get very articulate MPs to explain the consequences of changing the voting system that has served Canada well for nearly 150 years. Or have all those past Liberal governments been illegitimate?
when 39.42% of the vote gets a majority government something has to change. we now experience the tyranny of the minority as opposed to the tyranny of the majority, 39% is not a majority.
According to the article, instead of Grits getting 54% of seats with 39% of the popular vote, but would get 75% of the seats under the “more democratic” preferential system, where over half of first place votes are overturned by their so-called second choice? No, it must reckon with the popular vote.
Unless of course we change the terminology. How about the party received 75% of the net vote, rather than the troublesome popular vote? Didn’t Dubya get away with that? Never discount the goofy rationale statists regularly use, along with shouting you down that is.
Though I think already dead, anything they propose this obscene as the article Gabby cited might just get Canadians off their butts and into Timmies parking lots everywhere; OK somewhere. As I’ve said, I know they’ll try; so be it. Let’s roll, thanks for the issue.
How about a Black Oil Pipeline Party? BOPP. Those who support putting black oil in pipelines could declare independence over the ridings for which they elect members. If they get enough contiguous ridings between the oil producing ridings and port ridings they could declare that corridor independent and build their pipeline. Let’s BOPP it!
Plainzfyre we need to BOPP http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2016/05/oh-shiny-prime-27.html#comment-1039405 it. In other words we need a corridor to the BC Coast.
Frankly PMSP’s (Prime Minister Shiny Pony) approach on the voting system reminds me of the result of the successful Arab Spring movement in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood’s Morsi got in and then changed the system to try and insure he was in forever. It took a coup to stop him. Remember PMSP telegraphed his admiration for dictatorships — like Chinas. Morsi and Chinese Dictators were not so far apart. Monsef is from PMSP’s favoured voting block. When one of her peaceful co-religionists went on a peace spreading effort PMSP showed up in Monsef’s Peterbourough mosk to lecture us on why we shouldn’t be so is-lamb-a-fobik.
Just saying.
This needs to go to a wider jury than a parliamentary committee, and hopefully the people will show some common sense and stick with FPTP. These other schemes would never have been invented if there were any chance of them benefitting conservatism. Maybe we should dream up our own scheme, OOVC (only our votes count).