Larry, via email (somewhat edited) asks… So how many moose-auto collisions recorded this year in Saskatchewan?
This is one we can simply eat our way our of. 🙂
When discussing the issue with people I’ve met at the annual Sportsman’s Show, put on annually in March by the Saskatoon Wildlife Federation, I was told that there are a number of hunters who like being able to hunt a moose on farmland: where it’s easier to spot them, easier to hunt them, drive up to the carcass, load it in a truck and drive away. I think these people would also, if given the opportunity, prefer to have local swimming pools filled with pike, walleye and trout.
Secondly, some have told me that a few farmers claim to like having moose on their land and area and don’t want them severely reduced or eliminated. That if that is the plan, they promise to post all the land they own and/or control ‘No Hunting’.
Because nowadays, the remaining farmers do control or farm so much land, many of the S.W.F. hunters are scared of that and acquiesce.
Thirdly, and this I’ve surmised myself, previously wildlife management in Sask. was done by hunters and those who grew up with a farm/agricultural view of wild game as important but less than human value. However, over the last 20 years, a number of animal rights utopian fantasylanders have moved in the Dept. of the Environment and are biasing the decisions covertly.
While SARM influence has kept varmints on open season e.i. coyotes, foxes, crows, magpies, gophers etc. For large animals, traditionally, this was done to protect people and livestock.
The animal rights types think having large numbers of elk, moose and more cougars in farm areas as a “return to nature”. Think Gaia, pantheism/animist values, and a rejection of man’s (Biblical) “dominion” over nature.
A few years ago, a number of auto moose collision deaths occurred over the summer. Finally, one included a mountie responding to a call racing down the highway near North Battleford.
My repeated calls to Gormley’s show finally got a response, as many were clearly thinking as you and I do. The Wall government promised to increase the number of farmland moose licences, which it did.
Anyone I talked to around Saskatoon and a hour or so drive, seemed to be filling their tags pretty quick and easy. It’s hard not to spot a big, dark moose in a crop field, snow or no snow. However, the number of licences was not enough, even over the last 3-4 years to really drop the population to previous safer levels.
Last year a Sask. Dept. of Environment scientist researcher was on John Gormley’s show. Instead of deciding what number of moose licences were needed to protect the people driving on highways and grid roads, he was trying to save as many moose as possible.
He came up with an experiment of collaring a small number of female moose in a few areas to determine which moose could be predicted to cross highways and thus target only them.
Too often there are none so stupid as the “educated” people.
This scientist reported on some “preliminary” results: females don’t move around as much as they thought. (Gee whiz, what mammal raising young does?) Of course, this scientist stated that his findings indicate a need for expanded funding and collaring more moose for a larger more definitive result. Another two years??
Premier Wall, the last time he addressed the issue on Gormley’s show stated the government wanted to base it’s policy on science.
So, to offset whatever politics are going on behind the scene, we need to find out what stats are kept by whom, SERM/SGI? I suspect they are not complete with listings of deaths, injuries and data on where, when and what type of moose was involved.
Then keep making that public and hang the death/injury rates around the government’s neck. Nothing less will get the numbers reduced to much safer levels. I don’t know if the number of accidents/injuries/deaths have gone down or it’s just that less detail is released to the media to keep the issue an “insider” one.
This is a serious issue here and certainly in Newfoundland, too. And likely some other areas.
Steven Fletcher…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Fletcher_(politician)
http://www.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/Files/Parliamentarian.aspx?Item=1bdc8566-1dd8-4791-b939-3f578dbf780d&Language=E&Section=ALL
Sask Environments land and game management is ridiculous at best. Quite different up here. North of PA or anywhere along the forest fringe the moose deer and elk population have plummeted due to successive hard long winters overpopulation of large predators and yet they continue to pound the populations with cow/female open and draw tags.
Calls to the biolgist to suggest that they have to manage like a cow herd and leave a certain percentage of “replacement heifers” to maintain populations fall on deaf ears and they say they are responding to farmers concerns over crop damage.
Don’t get me started on forestry practices, I can show you thousands of acres of empty big games deserts because of past logging policies.
You would be more likely to obtain good statistics on large animal-auto collisions from the insurance industry…
Obviously there is a market for Saskatchewan Roo Bars or even hood mount antlers
It always amuses me when people claim they want to ‘manage’ the wildlife. Makes me wonder how wildlife survived on it’s own for most of it’s existence without ‘management’.
People have such a high opinion of themselves…heh
Having a bad day,Mark?
I’ve had so many close encounters with moose I can’t count that high. Here in B.C., the highways are twisty and have lots of hills,making it dangerous to NOT pay attention and watch the sides of the road as well as the blacktop.
Drive along on auto-pilot and listen to that latest CD at full volume and keep your brain in listening-to-my-favorite-music mode,and you’ll probably hit a moose or bear.
Pay F***ing attention, you’ll see their eyes long before you’re in any danger, and SLOW down at night,there’s no need to go at daytime speeds unless you’re driving an ambulance with an ailing Prime Minister in the back. Highway signage when I was a kid in Manitoba read: “speed limit 60, night 50” for good reason.
On this year’s hunting trip, my brother and I damned near ran into a cow moose with two calves as they crossed the highway, but he saw the eyes far enough away to swerve over to the left side of the road and brake hard. The Greyhound bus on our tail saw us,and also braked accordingly.The cow brushed the side of our vehicle, just smudged the mud,then ran back across the road to safety.
Most accidents are due to “pilot error”, and yes, I fully realize that SOME accidents happen so fast there’s no way to prevent them, but in the case of big animals versus cars, most of them CAN be prevented,just by using some (un)common sense.
(Not sure what the cause is, but it takes an inordinate amount of time for a comment to go through. A number of times. by opening a new page on to SDA, I’ve found that they do get posted, albeit returning to the first page still shows as processing. FWIW.)
Here in BC, particularly in the E. Kootenays, game management practices have become similarly idiotic over the last half dozen years. About four years ago mule deer bucks, previously restricted to 4 point (on one side) or better, were opened up to any buck goes for October. Down low it pretty much turned into a slaughter of spikes and forkhorns. Over two seasons the muley population got decimated. Hunters, mostly local, protested, even signed petitions by the thousands to stop the open season on all bucks. I met one game warden whom was beside himself with anger at the bureaucracy in Victoria whom wouldn’t listen. It was ended in 2014, and the population is starting to rebound.
At the same time they loosened up the season on cow elk, and there was another slaughter. In 2013 they pulled way back on that stupidity. They also liberalized the season on whitetail does, and that’s also been pretty much a slaughter. Rumor has it next season this will be cut back, too.
Problem here is that a great many hunters travel to this area to hunt, particularly from the coast. A forkhorn mule deer looks huge compared to the coastal blacktail they’re used to seeing. And, for all their trouble and expense, they’re not going home empty handed. So the game around here gets pounded!
The government, clearly, sees hunting as a revenue opportunity. ICBC sees too many critters. particularly whitetail deer, as a liability. And a lot of ranchers see too many elk as a drain on their winter forage crops for their cattle. Consequently the whole damn issue of wildlife management is rife with politics…which is pretty much guaranteed to be bad news for wildlife.
And hunters, especially of the local variety, whom generally seem to be about the last people anybody will listen to.
I never think about moose. Not a problem for the vast majority of people in Canada … Have other more pressing concerns like polar bears n shit.
Motor vehicle collisions are one of the best ways to monitor populations of moose and deer. Yet in Ontario, unless things have changed very recently, the Ministry of Natural Resources does not use these stats. The way I figure it, if traffic patterns in a given area remain consistent, then collision stats should be a pretty reliable indicator of whether the herd numbers were up or down. It is a really simple matter for police to add up the collisions in an given county/municipality.
But the MNR seems to rely almost solely on data derived from hunter questionnaires. And I know from talking to local hunters that an awful lot of them just enter whatever figures they feel will give them an advantage in next year’s draw. There is no method of verification. Traffic stats can be verified – a dead deer (or moose) is a fact.
Strad…
Actually, it’s a very complex problem. We’ve decimated predator populations across N. America that preyed on the various deer species…think wolves, cougars and bears. We’ve carved up the natural habitat for all species. And agriculture provides a vast food source, not just for deer, elk and moose, but also waterfowl, especially geese.
Management is absolutely essential in order to keep all the different balls in the air at the same time. Food production for the human race, energy production, mineral production, wood production. That’s a lot of competition for resources.
At the turn of the 20th century, when unregulated hunting was part of the problem, N. American whitetail population was estimated at about 1,000,000. Today, despite being the most hunted big game species, estimates put that number somewhere in the order of 17,000,000. This is the direct result of good management.
By 1900, elk were almost wiped out entirely, and mule deer had been pushed back into remote wilderness areas. South of us, wolves and grizzlies were virtually wiped out in the lower 48. And cougars east of the Missouri, for all intents and purposes, are extinct. Now elk are back in good numbers, and all the way out to Manitoba. Mule deer are thriving in the prairies. And moose, as we see now, are back to the point of being problematic in the southern prairies. Conversely, winter tick infestations are kicking the hell out of them in the northern range from Manitoba through to BC.
Snow geese populations, due to abundant feed along their migration routes, are off the charts. So over populated now that they’re destroying their nesting habitats in the Arctic, with severe consequences for numerous other species that share this region. To combat this, daily bag limits throughout the states and provinces have been increased, and even spring hunting seasons put in place.
They estimate that mountain sheep populations for N. America back before settlers moved in to be in the range of 1.2 to 2 million strong. By 1970, that number was down to about 28,000. Why? Because domestic sheep infected entire populations with diseases they had no natural immunity from. Through careful management and the efforts of foundations funded almost entirely by hunters, that population is back up to 80,000 and rising.
You get my point by now. No GOOD management. No wildlife. That simple.
And hunting is an essential wildlife management facilitator.
By 1900, elk were almost wiped out entirely, and mule deer had been pushed back into remote wilderness areas. South of us, wolves and grizzlies were virtually wiped out in the lower 48. And cougars east of the Missouri, for all intents and purposes, are extinct.
And, the world went on, same as it does now. What BS…your leftist ‘we should make a law’ is showing.
The Bison were almost wiped out as well, until a private enterprising person changed that. Certainly the gov’t had no hand in it. All the gov’t did was encourage the extinction.
Everything is complicated to as leftist.
There is no shortage of ungulates in southern Saskatchewan. Instead of isuing more licenses the response has been to increase the cougar population.
ME, LEFTIST???
Bwa ha ha ha!!!
*sniff*
BTW, I’m no anarchist, either.
Keeeeripes!
Instead of isuing more licenses the response has been to increase the cougar population.
Heh, it’s a ‘complex problem’…
“The Bison were almost wiped out as well, until a private enterprising person changed that. Certainly the gov’t had no hand in it. All the gov’t did was encourage the extinction.”
Where do you get your facts from? Back page of a comic book?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Island_National_Park
Most of buffalo roaming N. America to this day, owe their genes to herds originally saved and protected at Elk Island National Park.
Damned governments, eh?
I think the government should enact legislation making it illegal for moose to cross roadways except where signed accordingly. I mean they are legislating the weather so why not?
Most of buffalo roaming N. America to this day, owe their genes to herds originally saved and protected at Elk Island National Park.
And, where did they get them from? Gawd, these regulatory types are too stuuupid to read their own article…maybe look south to private herds in Montana.
Hasn’t anyone considered just erecting
MOOSE-FREE ZONE signs. ta da
Don Morris, no I’m not having a bad day. Just someone putting an opinion up like everyone else. 35 years of big game hunting and outfitting, preciously sat on provincial game advisory board. paying very good attention to our game population..
Why do you have to make a stupid personal comment. Are you an asshole?
Time to halt Mooselim immigration until we figure this out!
The southern prairies are not a natural habitat for moose. They are thriving here now for a number of reasons. Today every acre of farm land is cropped every year and with zero-till the land is only disturbed at seeding time. There’s lots to eat and the moose can move around easily. Policies at Wildlife and Environment are encouraging the growth of moose populations in areas where there once were none. Lastly the natives are hunting less. Their right to unlimited and unrestricted hunting is not culling local populations like it once did.
Just look at what the STATISTS did to the grand banks of Newfoudland for how well they manage our natural resources.
Richest fish habitat on the planet.
Population management of large mammals isn’t difficult or complex but left to gubment it goes the way that everything else they touch goes.
Ontario’s deer herd has been hammered the last two years with 2 long super cold hard winters and snow covers.
And they would be non existent without hunting rules and regulations. Game managers don’t always get it right. Sometimes they make mistakes for scientific or political reasons, but every game animal in Canada would go the way of the passenger pigeon if there were no hunting regulations
strad….sshhhhh…when thought of as stupid…………………….
…every game animal in Canada would go the way of the passenger pigeon if there were no hunting regulations
Are you a hunter? If you are, you just called yourself an idiot.
But, then, as all good leftists know, it’s always the other guy. Right?
“..Ontario’s deer herd has been hammered the last two years with 2 long super cold hard winters and snow covers.”
I know that big, mature bucks took a hammering because of the winters, but I’m not convinced that the rest of the herd in this area (Glengarry County) was affected that much. My sightings per hunting day are pretty close to last year’s, and the fellow who does our butchering says he’s taken in the same amount as last year.
Just for fun, I will call the traffic sergeant in January and ask him for the tri-county collision figures for 2015 and compare them to previous years. Maybe I’ll be proved wrong, but I’m betting there won’t be much of a change over previous years.
Early snow and heavy snows in this area are often a godsend for deer. The white cedar gets bent over for easy browsing and corn invariably stays standing in the fields.
Yes I’m a hunter. How did I call myself an idiot? Pigeons were hunted to extinction (not by me), turkeys were extirpated (not by me), elk were extirpated, not by me. Turkey and Elk were returned to Ontario by people like me. Game animals are common property in Ontario and has to be managed by everyone. We do this by having a government department responsible for it. There is lots of crown land in Ontario that is owned collectively by the state, so the state has to set the rules and regulations for its use. Even if I own the land I can’t manage the wildlife on it because the wildlife doesn’t recognize my property boundaries. Migratory birds don’t even pay attention to county province/state or international boundaries, which is why migratory bird regulations are handled at the national ind international level.
Here in the rough middle of Vancouver Island we have elk. Lots of elk. The other morning we had a herd 15 strong of cows and young elk walking through our backyard.
We regularly see them on the highway or beside the highway. Apparently there is no hunting season for them. Instead, a few are shot by lottery every year.
Hitting an elk at any speed is liable to be fatal. So, yes we do slow down at night. But the solution is fewer elk.
My farm front the highway. Every year we have moose and deer on the farm and every year they end up as road kill. It is a waste and a hazard.
Even if I own the land I can’t manage the wildlife on it because the wildlife doesn’t recognize my property boundaries.
The fact is, wildlife were managed privately on private land. That’s how the bison survived. Contrary to the ‘regulator’s’ intentions. The very Elk Island Park the other regulator was crowing about was begun as a private concern.
Professional wildlife managers are closely watching what is going on in Ontario,Minnesota and other jurisdictions where moose populations have tanked. There are probably a lot of reasons for this. Cancellation of the spring bear hunt, parasites, wolves back on the landscape. The list goes on.
Out on the Prairie things are different – at least for now. Abundant food source, a lack of apex predators have all lead to the explosion of the moose population. It can change just as fast.
Across North America the predator population has exploded. Coyotes are now in every jurisdiction. Wolves are back on the landscape where they have not been seen in over a century. Grizzly bears are on the rebound here and in the US. Avian predators abound.
Ungulates are vulnerable to predation and wildlife managers are aware of this. They are cautious by nature and err on the side of prudence. Yes there are an abundance of moose on the prairie right now. Yes they need to be properly managed but the situation is always fragile.
It’s a great time to be a hunter. These are the ‘good old days’ – best ever in a lot of wildlife populations.
Professional wildlife managers are closely watching what is going on in Ontario,Minnesota and other jurisdictions where moose populations have tanked. There are probably a lot of reasons for this. Cancellation of the spring bear hunt, parasites, wolves back on the landscape. The list goes on.
Out on the Prairie things are different – at least for now. Abundant food source, a lack of apex predators have all lead to the explosion of the moose population. It can change just as fast.
Across North America the predator population has exploded. Coyotes are now in every jurisdiction. Wolves are back on the landscape where they have not been seen in over a century. Grizzly bears are on the rebound here and in the US. Avian predators abound.
Ungulates are vulnerable to predation and wildlife managers are aware of this. They are cautious by nature and err on the side of prudence. Yes there are an abundance of moose on the prairie right now. Yes they need to be properly managed but the situation is always fragile.
It’s a great time to be a hunter. These are the ‘good old days’ – best ever in a lot of wildlife populations.
Mark, if you looked at this thread earlier, your post appeared about six times,that was all I was referring to. I don’t even remember your comment, just that it was posted repeatedly.
Don’t get all paranoid. And yes, I AM an asshole, just like everyone else who posts here on occasion.
And rest assured, with 7 billion people on this planet, someone,somewhere, when you least expect it, thinks YOU are an asshole too.
Have a nice evening.
They are cautious by nature and err on the side of prudence.
No, they’re just like every other uncivil servant. Stand around indecisively and wait for it to sort itself out. Just like gov’t hwy workers standing around leaning on their shovels.
A few years ago they couldn’t even find a herd of thousands of caribou…
“…civil servant. Stand around indecisively and wait for it to sort itself out.”
Wish that were the case with Bill 6 and most other legislation.
Wish that were the case with Bill 6 and most other legislation.
That’s exactly what they’re doing. No new legislation, just struck out existing legislation and figure out the regulations later.
Yes that is all very well if the private piece of land is a million acres. But when farms here in Ontario are a few hundred, and out west a few thousand it wouldn’t work the same way would it. The heard is on my property in the morning and on my neighbours in the afternoon. I want to save them to hunt for sport and he wants to kill them because they are eating his crops, and the other guys wants to supply a local meat market. See the problem?
You sure do spread a lot of misinformation around dontchya, ya lousy lefty.
Interesting…no one here has made the connection to Agenda 21.
In case y’all need to read up on it:
http://whatisagenda21.net/agenda21.htm
One of the quotes:
“Land…cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principle instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth, therefore contributes to social injustice.”From the report from the 1976 UN’s Habitat I Conference
I want to save them to hunt for sport and he wants to kill them because they are eating his crops, and the other guys wants to supply a local meat market.
Wild animals, being more clever than regulators, usually move to the safest area. Other things being equal. Ever notice how they move into parks and posted land during hunting season?
You’re no different than the anti-gunners who claim everybody will turn into a killer if they have a gun. Same logic. Or lack thereof.
Bring in grey wolves. They love moose, deer, and socialist. Keeps Saskatchewan ”balanced.”
Strad, you all too obviously don’t have a foggy clue in hell of what you’re talking about…which, nevertheless, still doesn’t cool your impulses to beak off.
I’ve forgotten more about this subject than you could scrape together.
We still have wildlife left in numbers across N. America because of the efforts and funding put forward almost entirely by hunters, be it through revenues from licensing, or through charitable organizations, such as Ducks Unlimited, The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Boone and Crocket, Safari Club International, etc., etc., etc.
It’s hunters and such organizations that have fought tooth and nail for habitat conversation, hunting regulation, and the establishment of protected parks so that wildlife will continue long into the future to be a part of our N. American heritage, and hunting maintained as a treasured tradition.
Frankly, the greatest threat to our wildlife is shamelessly uninformed opinion such as the astonishingly stupid blathering you’ve posted here.
…pretty disappointing stuff within the context of a Conservative forum.
Apparently you’ve forgotten too much. I see still smarting about how the bison were saved. Not by gov’t, not by regulators, not by totalitarian organizations such as Ducks Unlimited (there’s some stories about them), but by private individuals. Even the very Elk Island Park you were beaking off about was begun by private individuals.
Of course when gov’t monopolizes all these things nobody else can make a dollar from them. Gov’t only spends money…so inefficiently they couldn’t even find a herd of thousands of Caribou. A big hullabaloo about the Caribou having died off. Probably one of the things you forgot.
Anyway, as a land owner I noticed most hunters are idiots, so not surprising their orgs are idiotic and mostly interested in their own power, having productive people feed their game for free. Gawd, hunting season sounds like a war going on.
Back in the day, the road from Pine Point/Hay River to Fort Smith ran through Wood Buffalo National Park. The buffalo were fearless, or terminally stupid, or both. Anyway, there was a lot of folk lore as to how to successfully drive that highway, particularly during rutting season. Did you put your headlights on or not? One side said headlights on would just make the (male) buffalo crazier and thinking they were confronting another male; the other side said it would cause the critter to move. All we knew was that a male buffalo in full charge took out Charlie the Cop (car totaled, Charlie okay), and that a semi would usually come out the winner. The rest of us were really cautious.
Key thread is “professioinal” or “qualified” managers.
New mantra folks, they “know” better than folks who live the life.
They by and large live in urban large centre’s, are key and important members of department, and are paid by public dollars.
In NW Sask, wolf packs are issue, rest of province, likely under harvest are an issue.
But let us not forget, today, in Bambi generation, wildlife, and pets have more rights and protection than people.
Just saying, you are expendble, not so Bambi or Moose, think about it.
Right? Wrong? You decide. Till then losses and deaths on highways continue.
I have never, ever, seen moose by their shiny eyes. Deer yes. Ymmv.
Whenever I’ve spotted them in poor light it has been from their “stockings” , small white areas on their lower legs.
Not much notice.
Imagine hitting one, and their hooves enter your windshield…. and start kicking.
Damn right you need to slow down at night.
Moose love Canola! If you want them away from highways don’t plant it near them.
“… or through charitable organizations, such as Ducks Unlimited,…”
We are sullying the name of good organizations like the Safari Club and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation if we lump them together with DU. Three years ago DU sucked up $22 million Canadian tax-dollars. DU isn’t much different than the Sierra crowd…it just does a better job of pulling the cammo wool over gullible hunters’ eyes.
‘I have never, ever, seen moose by their shiny eyes’
Right. They appear completely black in the night. Their eyes only shine once they’re dead. Poster must have been seeing Zombie moose.
You (and nold) are absolutely correct that the eyes of a moose have no light reflecting qualities at night.
Earlier this fall I had a close call- 10 pm, a moose standing in the middle of a rural grid road. It was the white on his ‘stockings’ as you say that made him first visible. The good lighting on my F-150 also helped big time.