We were told that the 9/11 terrorists, though Muslim, did not speak for Islam. OK, maybe they didn’t. But how about the London subway bombers? They claimed to be murdering people in the name of Allah or Mohammed. But maybe they were wrong. Maybe they read the wrong parts of the Koran or Hadith, or interpreted those eyebrow-raising passages too literally or something. Maybe.
Yet here’s my puzzlement. Let’s agree, for the sake of the discussion, that the 9/11 bombers did not speak for Islam. Ditto the London murders. Indeed, let’s say that neither the Boston marathon bombers nor the people who murdered a total of 16 people in Paris last week (the 12 at Charlie Hebdo and four at the kosher market), let’s say that they did not speak for Islam either. Like Major Hasan, who murdered 13 people at Ft Hood in 2009 while shouting “Allahu Akbar,” they were just “lone extremists” who carry out murder and mayhem while shouting “Allahu Akbar.” But that has nothing to do with Islam. OK. Got it.
But here’s my question: Who does speak for Islam? We are assured that it’s not the group that now calls itself Islamic State, but which, following Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, I am considering calling Daesh, a name they apparently dislike. Anyway, we know that they don’t speak for Islam because our political leaders and our media have told us so. It’s the same with Boko Haram, the Nigerian Muslim group. This morning, quoting the Australian journalist Andrew Bolt, I noted that they had kidnapped and sold into sex slavery 300 Nigerian school girls. That was before I saw the story that Boko Haram had just invaded another town killing as many as 2000. Boko Haram appears to believe that they represent Islamic teaching, but no: our leaders have assured us that that is not the case. Ditto about Syria: this summer an adulteress or two were stoned to death, but that, of course, was the work not of Islam but of “extremists,” if not quite “lone extremists.”
So who, according to the establishment gospel, does speak for Islam? The Ayatollah Khomeni was the spiritual leader of Iran, a great Shia Muslim country. Did he speak for Islam? He didn’t like a novel by Salman Rushdie and told his followers to kill him for insulting Islam. Did the ayatollah speak for Islam?
Read it all. (h/t Ed Driscoll)
Islam is not a monolith. No one speaks for Islam as a whole. Much like no one speaks for Christianity (although the Pope spoke for most of it, for the first thousand years).
Sunnis followed the Caliph of Baghdad, until the Mongols got to them:
“The Caliph of Baghdad, Islam’s supreme authority, defied the Khan, which meant he had to die. The Mongol general had the Caliph tied into a leather sack and trampled to paste by horses — a sign of respect, actually, since (symbolically anyway) it avoided the shedding of his blood. The caliphate has never been restored.”
“The psychological impact of the [Mongol] invasion was incalculable. Before the Mongols swept through, the Islamic world that centered on Baghdad was intellectually vigorous, bold, adventuresome, full of poetry, science, and art. …. After the invasion the dour conservatism of fundementalists darkens it all.”
— Cecelia Holland, “The Death that Saved Europe”, in What If? Military Historians Imagine what Might Have Been, Robert Cowley, editor.
I thought the Grand mufti spoke for Islam when he allied with Hitler to wipe out Israel during World War II
Ben Shapiro did the math. Whoever is speaking for Islam has a lot of followers.
The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim Minority
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg
That Muhammad guy, the one who started it all in 609AD? He speaks for Islam.
No matter what kind of sorta peaceful stuff he may have said at the beginning of Islam, about the first 13 years, it needs to be remembered that he spent the last decade of his adult life and right up to the end acting just like those ISIS caliphate guys and those Boko Haram guys.
Those are the guys that are emulating their so-called prophet, and if the original Muhammad was alive today, he’d be acting just the same.
As long as there is a Koran and the Hadiths, people are going to act like the original Muhammad did in his last decade, because all Muslims consider him the perfect Muslim man and they know it’s about how Muhammad finished up, not how he began.
Who speaks for Islam? Any Muslim. You follow the book and its appendixes, you speak. Islam is NOT a religion, it is a murderous cult for world supremency based on the talks and deeds of a pedophiliac psycho. No less, no more.
They may not speak for Islam, but they all same the same thing. Although no one seems to speak for Islam, this Islam seems to have a unified and singular message. Those who follow it preach violence. I have never heard the autocratic unelected Islamic leader say anything different than all those who apparently do not speak for Islam but say the exact same thing. It is only the democratically elected secular Christian leader who says it is peaceful, but I know they lie. I have heard Islam’s message. It wants my submission or my death. It can have neither.
King Putt the “Obama-Nation™” speaks for Islam; after all he is conducting the Islam world apologetics tour.
Anjem Choudrey is a propagandist for Islam.
While the ISIS volks are the ‘activist arms of Islam’; according to Christiane Amanpour.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/01/13/huffington-post-the-real-threat-is-the-european-right/
HUFFINGTON POST: THE REAL THREAT IS THE EUROPEAN RIGHT
Yes of course how could we have overlooked, it’s the National Socialists who were really speaking for Islam all along after all…?
All the wild chants of ‘Death to the infidels!’ are mostly likely arrogating the right to speak for Islam.
Or maybe its all of these passages that speak for Islam:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm
For their part, Western leiberals would do well not to sacrifice critical thinking to the god of political correctness, or look for reasons to bring other religion down to the level of Islam merely to avoid the existential truth that it is both different and dangerous.
There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally… and too many others who couldn’t care less about the violence done in the name of Islam or actually approve of it.
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group ‘True North’
Public progressives speak for Islam. Barack Obama clearly does and so does Junior Trudeau, David Cameron, that midget Frenchman and every PC scold in media apparently. Lots of ’em have the chutzpah to declare “I am Charlie”. They (and I!) wish.
wrong Western standards for Islam http://waltherpragerandphilosophy1.blogspot.com/2015/01/forgetting-arabesque.html
If no one will speak for Islam, I will!
They’re not going to like what I have to say.
I think what you are confusing is shared that majority of muslim is confused all the news run by media under word ” muslim ….islam…. Quran….. Prophhet. mohammad …..” is not our mother grand mother. And grand grand mother and teachers toughht us about islam. Islma is life style eating different than nonmuslim in meat mainly slaughtering and shared in vegetrian fruit bakeryetc so many part like other nonmuslim but we are different. We have dress code different again some add their own culture to it whhichh confused islaam and culture of dress ccode. In islam gossiping and slander backbiting others is major sin. You can not talk in back without confrontation to tell them in front face and wait for them to respond if person say stop talk about me if you don’t like harrasment become sin and crime. Muslim are not permitted to draw photo of prophet mohammed when he was alive they described. Him how he look like they had ban some one draw how he really llok like for nott used as we can see photo of muslim leaders every where nowon. While gossiping is sin so as draw photo but they are not include capital punishment to kill anybody broke law os islam but if repeated can has some sourt of punishhment allowed but not death penalty. I thhink khomeini was first make tto capital punishment because he believed group tried gosip muslim and prophet mohamad to kill muslim in endanger their security he was one political muslim leader. There similarityy of political leader in islam and prime minster or president or pop because in country with majority muslim and law of islam political in majority are muslim view how to run country but again so many sheikh and mola are not or did not follow khomeini because he was extremis right or offend all american or english saying death to ameria placard again no muslim are forced to accept political leader or must like khomeini or go to jail as sin was not part of islam hut if you are muslim make dislike to quran is gosip sin and can get you punishmeent but it wasnot capital punishmen
What people does not know some rules in islam are not changable but some law is able to changed by muslim leader. Some like eating of pork is banned you can not changed it but you can change criminal and civil laws by change in society such as if person able to fix or correct him or her you can stop hang and stop capital punishment. We have law in islam to tell what is good and what is bad for you law of say it first if you agree there is no way person should enter in capital punishmentt like bank rubbery by gun because person come to kill you by gun then rub you or killing innocent for no reason but if person can fix with mental treatment they can stop hang him again politic and civil and criminal law and choose leader is majority vote in islam law. Even majority choose khomeini if you are minority group say I do not like kkhomeini there is no law you should hang for your dislike but freedom of speech for poriinnn photo is not allowed freedom of spech has border by gosip and freedom of talk are two different thing freedom of speech by gosip is offence too can some degree of punishment some sheikh are expert you need to find them tl ask your question whhat permit and what not permit what able to change by group of sheikh can change some laws but not main law.
Was Mohammed evil or is he the perfect example to follow? Who in his right mind would want him for a neighbour?
Ok… I see what the problem is. A coherent argument, clearly expressed in proper English would really help. What you wrote…not so much.
ok,
Monday night I watched the national championship football game at a local hospital, freaking cable guys haven’t installed it yet, Ducks got their asses/feathers kicked..
Anyway,
I stopped by the Christian Chapel and picked up a copy of your Koran,
it was interesting that a Christian Chapel would have a copy?
tolerance? love? understanding?
Thought about bringing it home and using it for pistol practice.
Sometimes I do that with large books I have purchased.
But this would have been an angry theft.
But someone, or something spoke to me and told me to put that book down because it was evil, dangerous object to have in my home or car.
So I left it on the other side of the hospital lying in a chair.
Never had such a bad feeling about any book,
or such a desire to get rid of it immediately.
Your prophet married and raped a little girl 6 years old, Your book teaches death and destruction for those that do not believe in your religion.
Don’t come over here and preach love and understanding to me…
ok, I hope you disagree with Muslims that support violence. But of all the violent acts that Roger Kimball mentions, is there even one that Mohammed would disagree with or condemn?
Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?
Summary Answer:
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Whoever has a gun to your head or a knife at your throat when he speaks, speaks for Islam.
Not true. The Turks had a caliphate as well. It was terminated by Attaturk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Caliphate
The complaints of European imperialism is BS. The Arabs were ruled by the Turks for 1;2 a millenium
There was no Israel in WWII, only 1948.
The Grand Mufti was merely following the traditional (since Mohamad) goal of killing Jews.
You got it, Max.
The same people who tell us that global warming is a real and deadly threat tell us that the deadly threat of Islam isn’t really real.
Robert, is there such a thing as a grand mufti diver? Bewildered Out West.
the Koran speaks for islam. that is why the violence and murder we see worldwide is occurring.
Exactly. They are an obstacle to forming a defense of western civilization against the Islamic scourge that is bent on world conquest once again.
I always enjoy non-muslim politicians reassuring us after each islamic terrorist attack that the perpetrators weren’t really muslims.
I find it interesting to ponder Who speaks against Islam?
It seems that the ranks of severely normal people (moderates) speaking against Islam are swelling.
Perhaps a new slogan might emerge “Je suis Islamophobe”
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim. Except for very rare occasions that still holds true.
The Last Tradition
I cannot speak for Islam, but I can speak for me …. to islam.
Because of access to OUR technology you have become more powerful than your primitive culture could allow. You have caught the western world at time where they are in a psychosis over who and what they are in the world. There is a guilt, confusion, misinformation, a weakness of spirit loose in the free world that is threatening that freedom. There are EVIL politician like Obama who are making things much much worse and by design.
However, when you are done with us, you will be facing a much stronger more well adjusted pair of cultures who won’t feel guilty about fighting back. The Chinese and the East Indians have already shown what they think of Islam and they don’t think much of it … then there is what’s left of Russia ….
How sad that we have shrunken to what we are now … a laughing stock for the world .. a place to dump shoddy products and crappy fast food. Maybe it’s time for us to go …. we have become fat and stupid.
heh!
Existential I think!
The male of the species exercising his free will in search of the ‘grand mufti’.
MARK @9 AM : I Believed strongly those young kids french one in France were Muslim. Being muslim is not guranteed you go to heavven if you do not follow islam law. In islam you can randomly go to supermarket and slaught people by gun shot. This is crime with capital punishment reward for them. You can be muslim but commit crime who can forgive your sin, is first ask god forgieness and second criminal islamic courrt decision. Muslim seating in their home are not responsible for mulimm commit crime. Is like you are christian but never go sunday to any church and plus you kill some one but your crime is your individul punishment not group or family false Criminal activity has link to mentall illness and your choice. Prophet mohamd had defencce war mostly located out of city for war battle. I am not xpert. Feetva by sheikh is other story ,like khomeini ‘sorder for soman roshi death penalty like order of US court for ben laden again political rules protect somee group for live not killed again
ok
How much will it cost me to buy you a bus ticket to anywhere that does not have internet access?
I’ll even kick in some ham sandwiches. Please respond soonest.
There should be a contest to see who reads the fewest number of words before realizing it’s ok and then skip to the next comment. For me it’s usually no more than 6.
Six? For me it’s only three. Posted by: ok
“In islam you can randomly go to supermarket and slaught people by gun shot. This is crime with capital punishment reward for them.”
Which solidly supports my position that the only good muslim, is a dead muslim.
Come on ok, give it to me straight; when can we start playing cowboys and muslims?
Most people never consider the contradictions in their thinking; this is no different.
Compared to some of the posters at NP and G&M ok comes across as a logical genius.
Their argument usually boils down to:
yeah but look what happened to the Muslims in-
fill in any date since 570 AD.
Muslim are not allow take revenge and be terrorist and CAN NOT kill people randomly of wtaching western cowboy movie. Terrorist muslim are misguided by some wrong teachers about islam laws and order they act murderer not act responsible muslim eve some called them two faces monafeg use islam but their heart is not they are kafer and monafeq damaged islam more than kafir because monfaq with bipolar two faces of illness their act damage and put muslim life endanger period. Educate yourself before buy gun. Tamarax usually I do not answer stupid people but I eat lots of chicken halal ham diced it with smashed mix eggs and vegttable or I eat halal beef strip cooked bacon. I do not come here to fight anybody I am not crazy like you ! Why you want to fight me for?bs
A related and better question is:
Does the highest seat of islamic “scholarship” Al Azar university denounce any of these jihad atrocities. If so, I’m unaware of any instance.
This is the point Robert Spencer makes over and over again.
It’s the closest thing to the Vatican in Islam.
Amanpour had a single imam on recently who said that Islam needs to reform, to remove the killing of infidels from its religion. Yeah, sure. But he has zero traction. This is the point I used to make to ET who would occasionally site such a reformer.
Saying you denounce the killing of “innocents” doesn’t count because that’s double talk; only muslims are innocent.
Final war some called worl war III 3 or some one say war between religion of god believer vs infedals or muslim desribed infedals only for people reject god or kafir or athesim and the infedals not used for jewish or christian who beleived god. We heard when world ended for who go to hell or heaven or judgment day. In fact that day did not come yet nobody know details. For people of god always all religion wait for come back of jeses chris even jewish said some one coming used different name they do not call it jesus and muslim said that is return of jeses. I remembered ET was athesim asked reformed quran we can not touch quran to changed like bible changed some is not originally what jeses said. But what muslim and non muslim can do to freeze capital punishment and look for cure human soul reduce stress and help mental illness insttead quickly hang criminals. But that required group of sheikh to have committee o hhelp social life living consider security and saftey of people with stop capital punishment exce
This is a must read. Tarek Fatah writes on his findings at a mosque after the Paris killings. This is a Toronto mosque and what they preach which is defeat the infidel. I went over to Wynne’s riding office and asked is this what is being taught at Valley Field PS in their Friday mosqueteria? The clerk didn’t know and I have to send an email requesting info.
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/13/muslims-shouldnt-pray-to-defeat-non-muslims
“Islam is not a monolith. No one speaks for Islam as a whole. Much like no one speaks for Christianity.”
In a nutshell.
Oh, and the Quran no more speaks for Islam than the Bible speaks for Christianity.
Who speaks for Islam? The ones you hear (boom).
Tarak Fatah has a very good piece demonstrating how not all Germans were Nazis but Germans supported Nazis.
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/13/muslims-shouldnt-pray-to-defeat-non-muslims
The New Testament I assume you are referring to
“This is the point I used to make to ET who would occasionally site such a reformer.”
You really are dimwitted, ET usually spoke of the need of the rise of the middle class. Western society can pretty much thank such a rise for it’s success in every thing. Muslims missed the boat on the rise of the middle class and the “elites” have successfully kept the goat herders as uneducated goat herders, there by being able to keep the wealth to themselves. The church, RC, in conjunction with the western elites, tried to suppress many advances that helped enable the rise of the middle class. It took about 500 years for this reforming to take place and is still on going. It doesn’t surprise me that you are/are not in that conversation, your EGO is your stumbling block.
Try working on your English, please OK. You might have some good points to make but you jumble thought wise not indoubtably so no thought thought happened
Well, Jesus spoke not for Christianity, but the way of life for his followers; so did Mohammad.
“There are just too many Muslims who take the Quran literally… and too many others who couldn’t care less about the violence done in the name of Islam or actually approve of it.”
Indeed.
The U.S. Department of State (#jesuisdhimmi) speaks for islame.
http://www.islamist-watch.org/13918/state-dept-spokeswoman-psaki-denounces-enemies
NME666:
I’ll refrain from name calling (as tempting as it is sometimes).
My comment had nothing whatsoever to do with the — yawn — middle class.
I merely took a different tack concerning the question “who speaks for Islam” and suggested that the acknowledged highest scholarly authority, Al Azar university, has never said publicly that these murderous and genocidal jihadis are in error doctrinally, which the feckless western political elites keep trying to tell us.
And therefore these lone wolf reformers, a couple of which ET mentioned, are utterly irrelevant.
That is all I tried to say.