TIME notes that the repercussions of the Ukraine incursion aren’t exactly rosy for Putin, either.
I think, however, that TIME isn’t thinking it out as long term as they should. Unlike some alarmists, I don’t see an escalation by the Russians as an end game. I think Putin’s end game is already here.
- Polls change, especially if you’re deemed the ‘winner’,
- He’s secured the warm water ports,
- As TIME notes, his ‘red line’ was enforced,
- Obama’s reputation is in tatters,
- He’s realigned eastern European influence,
- The Ukraine is effectively a satellite state of Russia now.
Pushing further (aside from peaceful assimilation of Ukraine) would invoke treaties, real treaties. Putin isn’t stupid and he isn’t backed into a corner. War with the West wouldn’t end well for anyone.
So, Ukraine was NOT a satellite state of Russia before this weekend?
Boy, are American journalists dumb.
Paul Craig Roberts Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration
Washington’s Arrogance, Hubris, and Evil Have Set the Stage for War
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/
A noble peace prize in one hand and a 9 iron in the other
How is that hopey changy thing going
Out maneuvered on the international stage at every turn. Time to call off the next election at home. True crisis management
Good summary. The Russian intervention brought peace to the violence and bloodshed. The people opposed to that are still living in the cold war, and still believe in communist boogeymen conquering N.America. The Chinese already did that in the aisles of MalWart.
So, the US should interfere in a dispute nine time zones away?
They’re no longer the world’s policeman, haven’t won any war of consequence for 60 years and are too broke to do anything.
All they can do is bluster and threaten.
Yep, the 21st century should be splendid; because we’ve all forgotten the lessons of the 20th century.
Oh I’m sure it’ll be solved by the next beer summit, or is Oktoberfest too far away?
Yep, the “Sudetenland Principle” led to this conclusion:
1945 -Lost German -Czech girl in Sudetenland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCzIelBSrD4
Short film taken by US Army patrol on the way to Prague from Pilsen in spring 1945 – she was gang raped and beaten by the Red Army soldiers
So it appears 60 million people wasted their time in WWII; because civilization has ‘advanced’ so much that certain parties have adopted National Socialist rationalizations about respecting agreed upon international borders.
Maybe the next diplomatic delegation should ask Putin if he still intends to ‘string Saakashvili up by the balls’
http://metro.co.uk/2008/11/14/putin-wanted-to-hang-georgian-president-by-the-balls-148415/
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin told the French he wanted to string up the Georgian President ‘by the balls’.
The conversation between Mr Putin and French President Nicholas Sarkozy occurred during Sarkozy’s peace mission as Russian tanks were 30 miles from the Georgian captial Tbilisi, Jean-David Levitte, Mr Sarkozy’s chief diplomatic adviser said.
Putin wanted to hang Georgian President ‘by the balls’Putin didn’t like the Georgians
‘I am going to hang [Georigan President Mikheil] Saakashvili by the balls,’ Mr Putin declared.
‘Hang him?’ — M Sarkozy asked.
‘Why not?’ Mr Putin is said to have replied. The Americans hanged Saddam Hussein.’
But M Sarkozy appeared to defuse the situation by saying: ‘Yes but do you want to end up like [President] Bush?’
Mr Putin said: ‘Ah — you have scored a point there.’
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
1945 was 67 years ago, the atrocities of that war [on all sides] are irrelevant to the news of today.
Obamba has been LYING to American’s and the west for six consecutive years running, and now he’s telling the truth about the Ukraine?
The lessons of international diplomacy however, are quite germane to every observer and student world affairs…
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Vladimir Putin would not have prospered if he had let the port of Sevastopol – the headquarters of the Russian
Black Sea fleet – pass out of Russian control.
“The lessons of international diplomacy however, are quite germane to every observer and student world affairs…”
that much makes sense, the previous rant, not so much.
The one that gets me, is the Brits, and Germans, they are more interested in the gas and business contracts. They would sell out their family for a few bucks. Then you have the US that signed an agreement, to help the ukraine militarily, if invaded. This was so they would give up their nukes. So what does Obumer do, “well when the dust settles we can help them with aid”. Meanwhile we talk like this is really hurting the Russian economy. See we don’t need to do a dam thing, things will fix themselves. Unfortunately with talk of war, oil and gas goes up in price, and the Russians are now swimming in money. They even just gave Belarus 2 billion of it. With Russians in Poland and lot of other places, even the Chinese have Chinese in Russia.Using Putin logic, we are going to see a lot more of this, before he is done.
Given that 82 Ukrainians were liquidated by security personnel on the ground in Kiev; yes atrocities would be the correct word, if not on the same scale.
There was no rant; merely your ‘perceived spin’ on my comment.
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
The area they took is heavily populated by Russian or Russian speaking people. The demographics and the voting patterns reflect 2 different Ukraines. It is likely the long term effect will be 2 separate Ukraines, similar to what happened in Czechoslovakia.
That might well be the end result.
Hans, “she was gang raped and beaten by the Red Army soldiers”. So was my dad’s cousin and her younger sisters-in-law.
The failures of the 1930s have been and are being repeated. Only this time there is no Churchill…just a bunch of emasculated boys in pink.
Why is there such overt silence on the trilateral agreement of 1994 that guarantees Ukraine’s borders and security?
We all understand the fallacy of giving up firearms in exchange for promises of security on a personal level.
Yet that doesn’t mean anyone should condone abandoning the promise of security to Ukraine. They gave up their nukes in good faith and now they’re being violated.
http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2011/05/trilateral-process-pifer
Um. Let me try. Ukraine does not have a democratically-elected president.
Russia is suspicious of the so-far unknown sponsors of what it considers a violent coup and is protecting its assets in the Black Sea.
Easy, huh?
Even easier:
Putin respects democracy only to the extent that it works for him.
Rig the “democratic” elections to install a compliant corruptocrat; when the economy collapses and government falls, march in and foreclose on the assets you want.
(now he’s telling the truth about the Ukraine?)
Point well taken.
We have a NSA spy agency that could tell me the last time you called someone while sitting on the john.
And Present Obumbles was shocked when Russia invaded?
–
Remember when he leaned over and told Sarkozy he would have more leeway after his reelection?
its all a bunch of smoke, mirrors, and bullshit…
The West miscalculated in thinking that they could meddle in Ukraine and not get a response from the Russians.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-eu-clash-on-how-to-install-a-puppet-regime-in-ukraine-victoria-nuland/5367794
P.S. Awkward attempts to question “morality” is such revelations sound especially hypocritical from a global spying power that monitors and controls most of the mobile phone and internet users activities, taps the phone lines of world leaders, and oversees the world’s most far-reaching wire-tapping program.
–
Great Link…
Soooo,
she tells the EU to get F*cked,
and the F*ckers get a good screwing.
–
talk about your payback on a global stage..
Anyone who thinks 20th century history is irrelevant for the 21st century needs a sanity check.
I didn’t say that, you did. Don’t misinterpret comments from others to fit your agenda, it makes you look foolish. Try to be an objective adult.
The new Axis powers: Russia, China, Iran. How difficult would it be to take Europe, Africa, SE Asia, S. America and then N.A. Really, how difficult? Who’s gonna stop em?
The art of diplomacy is saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Hasn’t changed in thousands of years.
The new Charge of the Light Brigade: Airmen of the 204th Tactical Brigade, Ukrainian Air Force marching unarmed into “pro-Russian forces” at Belbek Air Base, Crimea, leading with their red hammer and sickle regimental colours and singing the Ukrainian anthem (nervously and badly). Video from independent Crimea television and Sky News UK.
Odessans chanting, among other things, “Putin no!”, “Odessa not Russia!”, the “fascist” “Glory to Ukraine! Glory to her heroes!”, and “Odessa Ukraine”.
Things appear to be settling down now. If stifling the unrest in Ukraine was the objective it has been met. I doubt Putin wants to trash his economy over this and is hoping the reactions to the incursion will be brief. The London memo reveals the west’s desire to move past this as quickly as possible and I expect there to be little in the way of serious sanctions. There will be a flurry of noise as politics extracts it’s share of attention but it will all die down soon enough.
“Our survey is extremely important, because it shows that no region has a majority willing to unite with Russia – Bekeshkina there is no one in Ukraine region, in Ukraine there is no single social group, where most would like to unite with Russia. Of course, these (supporters of unification. – Ed.) More on the East and South, “- said Bekeshkina
However, she gave an example that even in the Crimea, where this percentage had risen recently, it is the same 41%, or less than half. As for the Donetsk region, which sociologist called the second critical point, then there is, in her words, supporters of unification with Russia 33 percent
Director of the “Deminitsiativ” also reported that in general the union in one state with Russia 12 percent of respondents are willing to Ukrainians. “In recent years, that number dropped from 20 to 9 percent, but after Maidana rose 3 percent”, – summarized sociologist.
http://www.ukrinform.ua/rus/news/
The occupant of the White House was actually talking to Medvedev
And he said, “I have not yet begun to procrastinate”. (Saw that after winning my mahjong game and immediately thought of Obama)
“Russia is suspicious of the so-far unknown sponsors of what it considers a violent coup and is protecting its assets in the Black Sea.” Set you free
Eyes wide open! As an American I say we are the EVIL Empire. Putin has made his point. How can 100K protesters (goaded on and Organized by the US State Dept & EU) in Kiev become a legitimate Government of the Ukraine? Mental midgets might believe Obama & the MSM
WE have a huge problem in the USA, beyond just Obama, and the cast of interesting folks making SAVE FACE statements is beyond belief. Yep! We need snipers up at the next US demonstration. Bring it on.
Just saw a headline at CBC news that RIA claims Russia tested an ICBM yesterday.
Putin: “I’ll see you, and raise you….”
Hmm,
Austria actually belonged to Germany?
Israel actually belongs to Jordan and Egypt et al?
Kuwait actually belonged to Iraq?
Ukraine/the Crimea actually belongs to Russia?
What could go wrong?
Silly justifications for an obvious invasion of a nation state don’t cut it IMO. We could rationalize every invasion or incursion this way. Sorry, the Russians are in the wrong, according to international law.
Then again, whether one agrees or not, so was the invasion of Iraq by US forces. Where’s the line that says it’s OK to use military force against other nation states? Because they mistreat their people, because they threaten other nations? When is the line crossed so military action is justified? No, states must decide on their own actions and the inevitable consequences that follow. That is what Putin and Russia have decided – to annex the Crimea and accept, or damn the consequences. But there must be consequences.
Because international law is anarchic and virtually unenforceable, we see these actions. IMO the US was wrong to invade Iraq and Russia is wrong to invade Ukraine, because no direct existential threat to either exists.
Yes, it’s a bit vague, like international law, but there are justifications, such as Israeli invasions to deal with an obvious existential threat. Even then it must be measured (no I don’t mean the BS “proportional” response).
Funny how all hell breaks loose when Israel defends itself, yet the left is mute on the Russian adventure into Ukraine, other than to say, well, it’s Bush’s fault:
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ukraine-george-wbush-blame-rachel-maddow/2014/03/03/id/555790?ns_mail_uid=64013677&ns_mail_job=1558507_03042014&promo_code=16A67-1