How To Argue with an Obama Devotee?

Baiting The Left 121 Comments

An acquaintance of mine on Facebook, a woman in San Francisco, posted a link to this article.
I politely asked her why it was wrong for Mitt Romney to tell the truth, namely that Spain’s spending is completely out of control. I also added:

While I was visiting Germany earlier this year, the Greeks were really angry at Angela Merkel because she told them that they were spending too much. They were and they are. Does that make it wrong for her to tell them the truth?
As a Canadian, I will openly tell you all, my American friends, that you’re spending way, way too much. Your debt has grown to astronomical levels. Every country in history that has had such high debt compared to what it produces, has suffered a terrible crash with devastating results afterwards. Does me saying this make me undiplomatic and insulting of you?
A quick question you need to ask yourself is this: If Barack Obama had said the same thing as Romney had, would you have felt the same way?

She responded thusly:

Obama hasn’t gotten us into this mess, which is the worst recession since the 1930’s, and based on the fact that much of the collapse revolved around lack of regulation in the housing loan business, there’s no quick fix. Once people started losing their homes, it has a domino effect. George W. Bush is the one who got us into two wars, gave tax cuts, and added medicare benefits without EVER including them in his budget. Obama got the hand he was dealt. And I can tell you that the Republicans have done absolutely EVERYTHING they can to stop every effort he makes to get the economy back on track.

Just curious, how would you respond to this?

121 Replies to “How To Argue with an Obama Devotee?”

  1. Lass
    actually the whole mess started just after the “depression” and just kept on rolling, interlopers lie Jeeemeee and Sick Willy just sped the thing up, and Bush, as a god kristin didn’t have the heart to impeed the progress of the P’o folk. It is Politicians fault, and more so the leftist politicians!!!

  3. If unemployment has been solved, and declining, why are the number of people on Food Stamps at a RECORD HIGH?

  4. Say this:
    “Get yo shit together, you crazy bitch, your stupid a–hole of a president blew a trillion bucks each of the
    last four years paying the wages of teachers and govt workers who should have been laid off in a recession.
    The money he didn’t waste there provided loans down the toilet for his administration’s crony capitalist friends.
    The housing meltdown? Ever heard of Barney Frank,Fannie Mae, and subprime, which when Bush tried to clamp down on
    it almost every rent seeking politically connected crook in the US went bananas, you dunce?”
    .

  5. What they really deserve, Robert, is to be de-friended. These people are insane. Aside from the facts that just ain’t so, she is so deeply rooted in leftist dogma, this sort of glib response rolls off her tongue without two brain cells firing. This person is not someone who can be trusted or loved. They want to commit suicide and take you with them for your own good. You see, to her humans beings are a blight on the planet and Republicans are just a more deadly virus. You couldn’t penetrate that thick skull with anything less than .357 magnum truth.
    Spend your time reasoning with people who are reasonable. The only liberals I know who ever snapped out of it are ones who were brought near tragedy by their own machinations. A neo-con, they say, is a liberal who has been mugged by reality.
    Look at San Francisco and California. Billions in debt while overtaxed. The democrats in total control are beginning to eat their young. Jerry Brown is beating back labor unions. The sheriff of SF was arrested for spouse abuse and his lawyer is accusing the Chinese mayor of perjury (which he probably is guilty of).
    They destroy themselves. We just need to keep their civil wars contained within their borders. The Obama legacy will implode if we let it happen and strike him hard enough with truth.
    There is an election coming up:spend your time talking to someone whose vote matters, not beating your head against 30 years of accumulated doublethink and crimestop.
    Notice that she never answered your question. Her head would explode if she tried.

  7. The Republicans demolished the Democrats in the 2010 House election so why is the narrative always that Republicans are blocking Obama, who was elected in 2008? I would contend that Obama & the Democrats are blocking House Republicans, as they have the people’s mandate at present.

  9. How would I respond? 2×4 to the head, or laugh in her face and walk away.
    There is no middle ground. You either beat the hell out of them yourself, or leave them for someone else to mug.
    So far I’ve got a 100% record of laughing and walking, but as I get older option one is looking more and more attractive.

  10. “If Obama can’t change things (in Washington) as he said, maybe he should get out of the way and let an adult do the job that he can’t/won’t/doesn’t do.”

  11. More fool you for being on Facebook at all. You’d be best off wiping the dust of Facebook off your feet and leaving it behind. Life’s too short.
    Don’t bother with a response. She deserves none. She has the Law, the Prophets and the Gospels. Let her listen to them. If she won’t attend to them, she won’t attend to you.
    If you must respond, merely tell her you’re leaving Facebook and she need not contact you any more if all she wants to do is talk rot about politics.
    Trust me, she won’t.

  12. Actually, your friend may come to change her mind but, if you value your friendship, it is best to let her do this without your interference.
    Many of my friends are hopelessly left leaning.
    Your friend has a right to her opinion. I’d suggest that you back off.
    If she never changes her mind, that’s okay!

  13. How can you discuss these issues, with those who are bedazzled with THE ONE, when they believe tripe such as:
    “I think he was a little taken aback at the brazenness with which Gov. Romney walked away from so many of the positions on which he’s run, walked away from his record,” Axelrod said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”
    It boggles the mind, how stupid the partisans are, to actually agree with this.

  14. The article is on Huffington Post (Brainwashing Central).
    Don’t even bother. Your friend is immune to reasoning or evidence.

  15. Well, let’s take her points one by one, shall we?
    “George W. Bush is the one who got us into two wars,”
    It was the Taliban and Al Qaeda got us into the war in Afghanistan. The US went into Iraq because of WMDs and Iraq’a military attacks against the air units enforcing the no-fly zone.
    “gave tax cuts,”
    And those were the only thing keeping the economy going.
    “and added medicare benefits without EVER including them in his budget.”
    Yes, that was a Democrat-controlled Congress did that. It’s worth noting that Congress has failed to pass a budget throughout Obama’s term in office, despite the Democrats having super majorites in both Houses for the first two years.
    “Obama hasn’t gotten us into this mess, which is the worst recession since the 1930’s, and based on the fact that much of the collapse revolved around lack of regulation in the housing loan business, there’s no quick fix.”
    Obama may not have created it, but he has made the situation worse, by adding $10 trillion to the national debt with nothing to show for it. The lack of regulation in the housing sector was from legislation created by Carter and broadened by Clinton.
    And where did the lack of regulation come from? Oh yes, Democrats in Clnton’s Congress repealing Glass-Steagal under lobbying from Wall Street banksters.

  16. And where did the lack of regulation come from? Oh yes, Democrats in Clnton’s Congress repealing Glass-Steagal under lobbying from Wall Street banksters.
    Oh not this crap. The repeal of Glass-Steagal was 1) a bipartisan effort and 2) had nothing to do with the housing crash and GS probably would have made it worse. Canada repealed its quasi-GS in the ’80s.
    Some of the commenters here are as tribally insane as the woman in the Facebook.

  17. Robert, as Bill suggested, I expect that nothing you counter with will sink in. She will have to learn the hard way just as millions in the former Soviet Union did, and western Europeans are today.
    Reginald and cgh are right.

  18. How would I respond to this? I would suggest that she get a brain transplant – the sooner the better. Just remember this – neither can you fix stupid nor can you argue with stupid.
    If you argue with stupid pretty soon the casual observer will be unable to disguish which is which. They kind of drag you down to their level.

  21. Math is hard, but reality is harder and that is the problem. Too many think that by sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting the “government will fix it”, will actually change reality. “Government” has become an addiction.

  22. There is a video on youtube showing the timeline between when bush asked for the housing issue to be taken care of in his first year and then in 2007 when democrats took over. Both times Dodd and Frank shut it down saying it was fine. Next bring up that this exact thing happened in Japan over a couple decades ago and they are still suffering the effects. We tried their same solution and having the same effects.

  23. There is a video on youtube showing the timeline between when bush asked for the housing issue to be taken care of in his first year and then in 2007 when democrats took over. Both times Dodd and Frank shut it down saying it was fine. Next bring up that this exact thing happened in Japan over a couple decades ago and they are still suffering the effects. We tried their same solution and having the same effects.

  24. The best way to respond to your friend is to ask why Obama has continues Bush’s failed policies. He’s involved in more wars, and spent more than Bush.
    It took over 200 years for the debt to reach 6 trillion and only 12 years to reach 16 trillion.
    Ask her what policies to fix the economy the Republicans are blocking. She won’t know; it makes leftists very uncomfortable when you ask them specifics.
    You can’t argue logic or reason with someone on the left. If you can’t come up with an emotional argument, don’t waste your time.
    So, make federal spending numbers relate to a household budget.

  25. Obama vs Obamalite: not a lot to choose between. Neither of these fellows has shown even the slightest desire to administer the tough medicine needed to get America back on track. Overall, though Obamalite would delay hitting the wall by a few years.

  27. Lack of regulation? More like the opposite. As in, laws and regulations requiring lenders to give mortgages to people with no demonstrable likelihood of living up to their end of the deal.
    That’s the Left’s eternal playbook: use the government to create a mess, then refer to that mess as a reason for more government control. Rinse, repeat.

  28. Obamalite is one stupid comment Ras.
    The truth hurts. It’s just a continuum of pain for braindead partisans like you.

  29. Romney is Obamalite.
    If you look at his record as Governor of Mass, you will see that expansion and socialist policies were expanded, not retracted or even held in place.
    Health care was a runaway train under his administration, with more government control and massive spending increases.
    His conservative voting record was a joke, he flip-flopped more than Alison Redford at the Stampede Pancake Breakfast.
    Let’s not be quick to jump up and down and expect the moon from Captain Underoos. He has the potential to be the President, but the Public Sector Unions and Government Administration Employees are lifers and tell the President the way things are and will be.
    And the Banksta’s are holding the keys to the clubhouse, either way they are still in charge.
    Idiots!!!!

  30. Point out that Obama’s spending policies and Bush’s are indistinguishable
    ~LAS at October 7, 2012 5:05 PM
    Your inability to distinguish between poicies does not make them the same, neither does it present you as one whose own ideas are to be taken seriously.
    —————————————-
    Robert,
    Obama did get us into this mess.(google Community Reinvestment Act[CRA] + Obama)
    The mortgage regulation that caused it was the one which forced the banks to issue subprime loans in order to prove that banks weren’t racially discriminating against bad risk loan applicants.
    Obama himself was a litigator on behalf or a community group that he himself organized(yes Obama was a Community Organizer) to coerce(Occupy type protests) Citigroup in Chicago with the threat of the public accusation of ‘Red Lining’ if Citigroup didn’t issue subprime loans in the 1990’s.
    Republicans demonstrably DID NOT do absolutely EVERYTHING they could to stop every effort Obama made to get the economy back on track.
    Solyndra is a prime example of an Obama effort to ‘get the economy working’ again, so too was Cash 4 Clunkers.
    The basic fact is, Obama’s efforts to get the economy working again were simply failures in general and in detail.
    Obama never even promised to get the economy “Back on Track”. Rather, Obama promised “Change” not ‘back on the old track’.
    It was just that Obama’s “Changes” were primarily subject to his political agenda rather than targeted for optimum economic results, results being a fleeting secondary consideration of each measure he implemented if at all.
    Since Obama’s goal was CHANGE, it is no surprised that he didn’t get it BACK on TRACK when he wasn’t interested in the track at all.
    So it was that Obama’s “Changes” took to the U.S. economy like a train takes to a gravel road.

  31. Could someone please release my comment from the filter?
    In light of the effort I put into writing it, I would appreciate it.

  32. I’m not hurting at all Las and I will put my brainpan against yours any time pal.
    Populations are moved in increments…both to the left and right…pendulum stuff…you simple fuck.

  33. Things turn in increments or degrees…societal pendulumns swing LAS…through it all some folk stay stone effing stupid. Know what I mean?

  34. Robert, all I can say is that you can drag people into reality but you can’t make them live there. You’re dealing with a case of incongruent reality tunnels and, unless you blow apart that persons reality tunnel and let them experience unfiltered reality, there’s no point in even talking to them until their personal virtual reality is so out of sync with objective reality that their wetware sensory filters are unable to deal with the external inputs. Unfortunately, someone living in a large city like SF can live in a personal virtual reality having no connection to objective reality and still survive; this is not something one can do living in the countryside.
    Usually, for leftists, their reality tunnels can be breached by being mugged or raped by a young black male. Often this is the first step in their road to expanding their reality tunnels to overlap those of conservatives.
    In the case of a person who’s so entrenched in a discordant self-created reality, I’d suggest they read some of Robert Anton Wilson’s books which should push them in the direction of Libertarianism if they grok RAW’s musings about the artificial realities we all construct for ourselves.

  35. “based on the fact that much of the collapse revolved around lack of regulation in the housing loan business, there’s no quick fix”
    Much of the collapse revolved around REGULATIONS in the housing market requiring banks to lend to people who were not making enough money to justify the loans, on pain of false accusations of racism against said banks.
    No, there’s no quick fix, but the ONLY fix is to get rid of the regulations that caused the problem, and let the market sort itself out.
    Another action that would be of immense help is to streamline the tax system, get rid of all the fancy loopholes and surtaxes that encourage people to do such-and-such or to discourage them from doing it. Eliminate business subsidies as soon as possible, and eliminate government funding of “activist groups” even sooner.
    There has apparently been fraud in the housing loan business; whether it amounted to more than in any other aspect of business (or in society in general) I do not know.
    In the financial sector there are numerous transactions every day that would surely be considered fraud anywhere else, such as short-selling; it’s just the way the business has developed, it’s accepted by everyone, and traders are on the hook when things turn sour.
    More importantly, the whole economy is based around the financial sector, including the Federal Reserve. All of this is why I would be fairly cautious in deregulating, but deregulate one must.

  36. Thanks largely to people like you Syncro, things do not change. They stay statist; only the color alternates between red and blue.

  37. glacierman @5:05 and others – thank you. The idea that “lack of regulation” caused the housing crisis was was of Obamas lines during the debate and I wish Mitt had called him on it. (There must be a pat democrat response or else Obama’s handlers would never have encouraged him to bring it up.)
    As for Robert’s Facebook acqaintance, I would just have gone with “stimulus package, anyone?”

  39. You have to cure the disease before you can stop the symptoms.
    “How did you go bankrupt?”
    Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
    I wouldn’t argue that BO inherited a mess. Let’s agree that he did for the sake of argument. I would ask her if she was in his seat, what would she do?
    I would also ask her “How progressive do you think a tax system can be and still be effective?” There’s numbers which show when the rich flee or their income drops.
    And if possible I would get her to watch something introductory. Milton Friedman’s “Free to Choose” series is available free on the internet, for example.

  40. You have to cure the disease before you can stop the symptoms.
    “How did you go bankrupt?”
    Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
    I wouldn’t argue that BO inherited a mess. Let’s agree that he did for the sake of argument. I would ask her if she was in his seat, what would she do?
    I would also ask her “How progressive do you think a tax system can be and still be effective?” There’s numbers which show when the rich flee or their income drops.
    And if possible I would get her to watch something introductory. Milton Friedman’s “Free to Choose” series is available free on the internet, for example.

  42. Laughter is usually the most appropriate response. You surely are familiar with the term “ROTFLMFAO”?
    Take it literally…

  43. Yes Obama didn’t initiate this mess but he has dug the a whole lot deeper. WHo can truly say that 1.5trillion dollars of overspending each yearis wise?
    The mess was created by politicians, and Obamah was one of the lawyers, who gleefully forced banks and mortgage companies to make loans to people who could not afford them. This was NOT a lack of regulation, but of political interference.
    “It’s Bush’s Fault”
    Well, that’s original but don’t you think it’s a bit stale now?

  44. Robert, above all be polite in your response(s).
    First ask if she could respond to your three (reasonable) questions first. Once she has done that then you would be more than happy to move on to addressing her comments.
    After she has done that (and not before) respond to her declarations using whichever comments above you agree with.
    I would add that Obama and the democrats had an entirely free hand for two years and proceeded in an entirely non- partisan manner to dramatically increase regulation of markets, the environment and one sixth of the American economy – healthcare. In every case it has been widely documented that almost no direction was provided by Obama – he left it to pelosi and Reid et al to design and get legislation passed. In effect Obama voted “present” yet again. There is no evidence whatsoever that a modern economy can be stimulated to recovery by increasing regulation. Every major rebound economically in America since WW2 was in part stimulated by a decline in the role of govt: post ww2 massive cuts to military spending; huge tax cuts by Kennedy in the early sixties, extensive cuts to regulation begun in the carter administration that bore fruit during the Reagan era are three examples – ALL done during periods when a dem POTUS was in power. There is not one single instance where Obama has cut regulation – unless you want to include enforcement of illegal immigration laws…
    The lack of cooperation by the gop claim is simply false. One need only look at how often Obama has tried to contact and discuss the issues with GOp members – he has done it less than any president – far less than even the reclusive Nixon ever. As the chief executive it is his job to initiate such discussions – not the other way around.

  45. Loki and Mark Matis have individually recapitulate my comment above I see. I concur, gentlemen.
    Lefties don’t partake of the same reality we do. Limbaugh said the perfect thing the other day, “liberals make up alternate realities and then live in them.”
    More than half the problem is they are hateful. They will say anything to make you angry, just to see the look on your face. The rest of the problem is numbers don’t mean anything in their alternate reality.
    You can’t argue with alternate reality. All you can do is walk away and wait for Reality to impose itself upon them by way of pain and suffering, or you can administer the pain and suffering yourself.
    Some of our Eastern European friends here bear the scars of Reality imposing itself on Communism, perhaps walking away is not the kindest way.

  46. Robert, above all be polite in your response(s).
    First ask if she could respond to your three (reasonable) questions first. Once she has done that then you would be more than happy to move on to addressing her comments.
    After she has done that (and not before) respond to her declarations using whichever comments above you agree with.
    I would add that Obama and the democrats had an entirely free hand for two years and proceeded in an entirely non- partisan manner to dramatically increase regulation of markets, the environment and one sixth of the American economy – healthcare. In every case it has been widely documented that almost no direction was provided by Obama – he left it to pelosi and Reid et al to design and get legislation passed. In effect Obama voted “present” yet again. There is no evidence whatsoever that a modern economy can be stimulated to recovery by increasing regulation. Every major rebound economically in America since WW2 was in part stimulated by a decline in the role of govt: post ww2 massive cuts to military spending; huge tax cuts by Kennedy in the early sixties, extensive cuts to regulation begun in the carter administration that bore fruit during the Reagan era are three examples – ALL done during periods when a dem POTUS was in power. There is not one single instance where Obama has cut regulation – unless you want to include enforcement of illegal immigration laws…
    The lack of cooperation by the gop claim is simply false. One need only look at how often Obama has tried to contact and discuss the issues with GOp members – he has done it less than any president – far less than even the reclusive Nixon ever. As the chief executive it is his job to initiate such discussions – not the other way around.

  47. Don’t bother…walk away. The only difference between genius and stupid is genius has it’s limits.

  48. Robert,
    Ask her if she is interested in being “right” or if she is interested in debate?
    If she just wants to be right, all the facts, numbers and arguments are wasting your time in something productive and able to help somebody who genuinely could use some. Sometimes those if front of you are nothing but a distraction to keep you from doing some real good.
    Kind of like the trolls on a blog. If they come around to changing their beliefs from the liberal / socialist mindset we have done our job. If they choose not to be persuaded, they will leave or say something so offensive or rude they will be banished.
    Just like your “friend”.

  49. Robert: Wrt her blaming Bush, you should send her this.
    It would be better to show it to her in person, of course, just so you could watch her reaction as she tries to come up with a counter-response….

  50. Sorry to be about 100 comments late to this party, but Kate’s original question was > “How would you resspond to this?”
    I’d respond this way, as I have numerous times as the election nears and Obama voters get more and more defensive > “Well if you think Obama inherited a real mess in 2008 just wait until he and you see the size of the mess he will be inheriting if he gets re-elected in November”
    Never over-estimate the intelligence of the left, and never under-estimate the left’s powers of self-delusion.

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