Ok, Dehydrating is bad.
But let’s say I am 90 years old, demential and only living because of medecine. What is the point of living 6 more months. I prefer to be unplugged.
Sometimes it is better to die in dignity than to survive 6 more months for nothing.
Only cold-hearted conservatives would concern themselves about the health & welfare of dementia patients. Sarc off.
You can keep your wishes to yourself, QNS; the Docs will decide this for you.
The Lenin/Stalin mentality is alive and well. Starve and work them to death and kill two birds with one stone. In this case, just starve them to death.
What have we come to. Scare health care dollars? Balderdash, it is the system.
next step, Soylent Green.
Quebec separatist: why not admit that the socialist promise of cradle to grave free healthcare is not a promise that can be delivered.
If we all knew we had to provide for our own healthcare we would buy private insurance coverage and it would be delivered for our lifetimes. Use of catastrophic care pools funded in one of several ways (a tax on personal plans; govt funded personal health spending accounts) would provide efficient privately provided care for those who cannot pay insurance premiums.
Open-ended entitlements are dead-ends (pardon the pun). It seems that many socialists – including Quebec separatists would prefer death – literally – rather than admit that their policies have been egregious failures.
To a quebecor, open-ended entitlements are like the air we breath. Just there and absolutely necessary.
breathe, even. Sorry, public education.
Ti ain’t health-care death panels it’s bureaucratic death-care. Coming soon to a Canadian hospital near you.
Dehydrate them to death and we can get rid of bed pans, diapers, food and indoor plumbing which should save a lot of the tax money for more swanky cottages for the gubmint “workers” to enjoy while not tending those icky sick people.
A hugely disproportionate amount of health care funding is for terminal patients in the last 6 months of their lives. Morphine should be the only taxpayer funded medication for terminal patients. If their families want to pay for other medication then that’s their option.
Well, they murder the unborn and the aged and call it something else. I guess if I shot a few of these leftist bastards they’d let me off right? I mean its not like murder, murder, is it?
What’s next? Eighty. Seventy. Sixty years old maybe? What a sick world we live in today. God help us.
Because QNS believes that Dr. Mengele was right all along.
“We should kill dementia patients because they are all just ‘useless eaters’.”
QNS = Quebec National Socialist
Careful now, the double ess runes (SS) on your lapel are showing…
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Best comment there. Could never have matched it for the truth it is
The Elector of Saxony commented:
“Sanctity of life law has gone too far,”
And the Left claim that Nazism is phenomenon of the Right! It would be funny if it were not so sad. The Left in this country has screamed “slippery slope” so many times one would think they would be permanently hoarse from the exercise. So we accept pornography masquerading as free speech, we accept the presentation of the homosexual lifestyle as unassailably normal, prayer before a public school football match is a “slippery slope” to a theocratic government, same for Christmas cards and a manger on the lawn of a town square. “Slippery Slope! We can’t give an inch or it will certainly follow that we will lose our rights to speak at all, we’ll be banning and burning books, we’ll live in a Christian theocracy where women are reduced to barefoot, kitchen-pregnancy!” We must draw the line in the sand here!, they shout.
And yet, for the Left, something called the Sanctity of Life Law and the principles it enshrines, are an acceptable target for attack? What of the “slippery slope” traveled by Hitler, Stalin and company? Is there no Leftist who thinks that if we start by dehydrating elderly dementia patients, it might take us down a road where we simply euthanize the handicapped at birth? After all, the State can hardly make use of a child with Down’s Syndrome, and that child will surely be a drain on precious public resources. But I think that in Leftist circles such arguments are made and roundly approved. They must be! Otherwise how could they refrain from denouncing Obama, who voted to deny care to babies who survived botched abortions? Instead they love him and approve of the unfettered, unrestricted murder of innocents in utero.
I wonder why everything is a slippery slope, except for the De-sanctification of Human Life? They have such an urgency about it, it seems. I stand in wonder at their absolute disgust for Humanity and their hunger to see it smashed in the womb, gassed in the death chamber, worked to death in Siberian work camps, marched into the fields and tortured to death in the millions in the “killing fields”, and yet they feel no compunction over it, no guilt of any kind. These are the deeds of their ideological Socialist/Marxist brothers and yet, even upon reflection of the terror inflicted by Socialism upon Humankind in the 20th Century, they still cannot bring themselves to regard Life as anything more than disposable clumps of cells.
.
If health-care dollars are so scarce, the British NHS could free some up by firing some medical ethicists. It’d probably improve the standard of medical ethics, as well.
I wonder why everything is a slippery slope, except for the De-sanctification of Human Life?
After serious, sober, ‘critical analysis’ that’s just the way it is.
The black robes are smarter than us, dontcha know.
I watched my father die of dehydration and starvation in a hospice. They gave him oxygen and morphine. He was 84 and had dementia/parkinsons.
These are the places you go to die. My wife and I pleaded to take him to our home to die.
I never really forgave my mother but I guess you do what you have to do.
The last place i want to go to die is an institution.
I can understand not wishing to have heroic measures taken to keep you alive.
But an IV is hardly heroic.
Is there no Leftist who thinks that if we start by dehydrating elderly dementia patients, it might take us down a road where we simply euthanize the handicapped at birth?
~Revnant Dream
Aah, they already do want to euthanize the handicapped at birth.
You should keep up.
They also want to euthanize the incurably demented/insane, age being no bar. If they ever get into power and get emergency powers because of the dire economic conditions which they themselves have created it will end with,
“What?” “He disagrees with our policies?!!” “This person is certifiable!”
Atheists and their rank materialism, way to go.
“Hello…uhh…can we have your liver?”
“What?”
“Your liver…ahhh…it’s a large glandular organ in your ab-do-men.”
Ask my 86 year old mother about death panels, and you will get an earful.
She and her friends have called doctors of their friends to explain that the person is still very active and shouldn’t be just sent home to die.
I wonder if these same people will allow an A.I.D.S. patient in the terminal stages of the disease to ‘dehydrate’??
Belated entry for The Devil’s Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce: “Medical ethicist: an individual hired by a hospital to enable them to rationalize the murder of patients.”
It seems to me that many of the commenters above are missing the point.
It is not quality of life issues we are dealing with – it is the idea that we should terminate those who we deem to have a very poor quality of life because it saves money. This is the horrific essense of socialism exposed to is very marrow.
“it is the idea that we should terminate those who we deem to have a very poor quality of life because it saves money”
~Gord Tulk
It is rank materialism.
There are not various qualities of death.
Hans, well said.
Revnant Dream @ 7:21, thank you. That was great.
Lance is right about Tommy Douglas not being dead enough. Tommy would have approved of death panels.
I sat at my mothers bedside for 13 days and some nights while waiting for her to pass away. She had a massive stroke at 87 and was brain dead. There is something wrong with this system and I am not taking sides but there has got to be a better way than this. When my dog could no longer stand or control her bowels I took her to to the Vet who gave her one small needle to put her into a deep sleep and one more to stop her heart while I cried like a baby. She died so peacefully. Just saying. There must be a better way when our pets get better treatment than my uncle who died sreaming in pain because because he had his quota of sedatives for the day. I was told (with a straight face) “because it’s addictve.” There has to be a balance without the “slippery slope” coming into play. Perhaps a little logic and common sense without invocing government or God.
peterj, sorry for your mom.
I agree. A DNR (if they have them in Canada) or failing that a unanimous family decision.
Not, repeat, not, a doctor, board, health-specialist, nurse or politician.
“Not, repeat, not, a doctor, board, health-specialist, nurse or politician.”
That is the crux of the matter.
Peterj, I am sorry about your mother. My own mother suffered a massive stroke at 85 and she lingered for 7 days before she passed away. She could take no water or nourishment so she basically dehydrated until her organs failed. I suppose it could have been worse but honestly, are we so lacking in compassion that we treat our pets better at end of life than we do our parents. It’s something I’m not looking forward to.
lance….we do indeed have DNR’s in Canada(at least in Alberta).Just make damn sure your better half,kids,best friend,etc knows about it and has a copy. My mother-in-law had one,and when she suffered a massive stroke in Edmonton while we were working in Ft.Mac.,they kept her “alive” until we arrived 6 hrs later because”they couldn’t find it”. Our oldest still has nightmares about it,as she didn’t have a copy,or even know about it.To me,if you have a DNR,it is just as important to let everybody who cares for you know about,the same as organ donation.
And well said at 12:32 AM.
I’ve never been comfortable with the idea of having people die of dehydration and starve to death. I hope that if I ever get to that stage I’ll have enough intellect remaining to put a bullet through my head before going down the dementia route.
Old people are a major drain on the system and this should have been blindingly obvious to the morons who came up with socialized medicine. There’s clear age discrimination in a system which spends far more to save an iv drug user with cirrhosis and AIDS “because he’s so young” than on a healthy 95 year old. I’ve seen 95 year olds that are far healthier than some of the young street addicts I used to see in Vancouver. One of the problems that I see is people who had bioprosthetic heart valves implanted when they were 75 under the impression that the valve would outlast the patient and they show up at age 90 with a badly leaking valve and no cardiac surgeon will touch them.
Interestingly, one of the things that seems to malfunction as people get older is the sense of thirst. I’ve lost track of the number of 80 year olds that show up in hospital dehydrated and looking like they’re terminal. A couple of bags of saline later they’re suddenly awake and active. Of course, once they go home they seem to forget to drink and end up in ER to repeat the cycle again. So, presumably they’re not suffering if one chooses to not intervene when they show up hypotensive and near comatose.
I view my job as fixing peoples aberrant physiology, not killing them. If the government wants to save money, then let them set up euthanasia centers where people can drop off their demented relatives and get a tax refund in return. No doctors need be involved as it’s a lot easier to kill people than repair them.
As far as medical ethicists go, I think this is one of the first groups of people who should undergo involuntary euthanasia. Having an interest in life-extension technologies I was somewhat disturbed to read medical ethicist papers uniformly condemning this practice as it would bankrupt the medical system and disrupt society. As if socialized medicine hasn’t already done that and medical ethicists are strangely silent on sex selective abortion.
@ lance at July 18, 2012 12:32 AM
Your story parallels mine except the time involed. What I found extreemly frustrating was the Doctors coming in at the 11 day mark and commenting on how strong she was, and then leaving again. I was allowed to dunk a swap in apple juice and moisten her lips, to which she actually responded in wanting more while she was being dehydrated to death. Automatic response I was told. 2 more days of this before she died with the doctor marvelling at her “staying power.” I can only pray that I die when the time comes before I get to the hospital. Like I said, there has got to be a better system at the end. (Loki ?)
sorry… that was to Albert at July 18, 2012 1:28 AM
there has got to be a better system at the end
~peterj
If we saw to it that the politicians and their family members got the same treatment the rest of us do things would change very quickly.
The problem is they have access to elite care on our dime.
Apply triage principles. Use the limited resources to fix the fixable not to prolong the suffering of the terminally ill. …and yes I would want those principles applied to myself.
Yes, by all means, eliminate free choice. More of that fallible reasoning, I suppose…
Thanks Revnant Dream. Worth repeating. I stand in wonder at (the left’s) absolute disgust for Humanity and their hunger to see it smashed in the womb, gassed in the death chamber, worked to death in Siberian work camps, marched into the fields and tortured to death in the millions in the “killing fields”, and yet they feel no compunction over it, no guilt of any kind. These are the deeds of their ideological Socialist/Marxist brothers and yet, even upon reflection of the terror inflicted by Socialism upon Humankind in the 20th Century, they still cannot bring themselves to regard Life as anything more than disposable clumps of cells.
Rizwan, agreed, and that is why I hope that the Rev will not be upset that I saved his comment.
Water, food and pain relief are not extraordinary measures.Only a heartless monster would think that. If we must reduce financial waste, why not remove these mouth-breathers from the payrolls and the resources to help the sick and dying as any just society would do?
Euthanasia frees up more money for the politicians to spend buying votes, and that’s one reason politicos are enthusiastic about full government control of healthcare ( single payer ) – they control all the money. For them, the question is, how do I spend the money to get the most votes per $.
Ok, Dehydrating is bad.
But let’s say I am 90 years old, demential and only living because of medecine. What is the point of living 6 more months. I prefer to be unplugged.
Sometimes it is better to die in dignity than to survive 6 more months for nothing.
Only cold-hearted conservatives would concern themselves about the health & welfare of dementia patients. Sarc off.
You can keep your wishes to yourself, QNS; the Docs will decide this for you.
The Lenin/Stalin mentality is alive and well. Starve and work them to death and kill two birds with one stone. In this case, just starve them to death.
What have we come to. Scare health care dollars? Balderdash, it is the system.
next step, Soylent Green.
Quebec separatist: why not admit that the socialist promise of cradle to grave free healthcare is not a promise that can be delivered.
If we all knew we had to provide for our own healthcare we would buy private insurance coverage and it would be delivered for our lifetimes. Use of catastrophic care pools funded in one of several ways (a tax on personal plans; govt funded personal health spending accounts) would provide efficient privately provided care for those who cannot pay insurance premiums.
Open-ended entitlements are dead-ends (pardon the pun). It seems that many socialists – including Quebec separatists would prefer death – literally – rather than admit that their policies have been egregious failures.
To a quebecor, open-ended entitlements are like the air we breath. Just there and absolutely necessary.
breathe, even. Sorry, public education.
Ti ain’t health-care death panels it’s bureaucratic death-care. Coming soon to a Canadian hospital near you.
Dehydrate them to death and we can get rid of bed pans, diapers, food and indoor plumbing which should save a lot of the tax money for more swanky cottages for the gubmint “workers” to enjoy while not tending those icky sick people.
A hugely disproportionate amount of health care funding is for terminal patients in the last 6 months of their lives. Morphine should be the only taxpayer funded medication for terminal patients. If their families want to pay for other medication then that’s their option.
Well, they murder the unborn and the aged and call it something else. I guess if I shot a few of these leftist bastards they’d let me off right? I mean its not like murder, murder, is it?
What’s next? Eighty. Seventy. Sixty years old maybe? What a sick world we live in today. God help us.
Because QNS believes that Dr. Mengele was right all along.
“We should kill dementia patients because they are all just ‘useless eaters’.”
QNS = Quebec National Socialist
Careful now, the double ess runes (SS) on your lapel are showing…
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Best comment there. Could never have matched it for the truth it is
The Elector of Saxony commented:
“Sanctity of life law has gone too far,”
And the Left claim that Nazism is phenomenon of the Right! It would be funny if it were not so sad. The Left in this country has screamed “slippery slope” so many times one would think they would be permanently hoarse from the exercise. So we accept pornography masquerading as free speech, we accept the presentation of the homosexual lifestyle as unassailably normal, prayer before a public school football match is a “slippery slope” to a theocratic government, same for Christmas cards and a manger on the lawn of a town square. “Slippery Slope! We can’t give an inch or it will certainly follow that we will lose our rights to speak at all, we’ll be banning and burning books, we’ll live in a Christian theocracy where women are reduced to barefoot, kitchen-pregnancy!” We must draw the line in the sand here!, they shout.
And yet, for the Left, something called the Sanctity of Life Law and the principles it enshrines, are an acceptable target for attack? What of the “slippery slope” traveled by Hitler, Stalin and company? Is there no Leftist who thinks that if we start by dehydrating elderly dementia patients, it might take us down a road where we simply euthanize the handicapped at birth? After all, the State can hardly make use of a child with Down’s Syndrome, and that child will surely be a drain on precious public resources. But I think that in Leftist circles such arguments are made and roundly approved. They must be! Otherwise how could they refrain from denouncing Obama, who voted to deny care to babies who survived botched abortions? Instead they love him and approve of the unfettered, unrestricted murder of innocents in utero.
I wonder why everything is a slippery slope, except for the De-sanctification of Human Life? They have such an urgency about it, it seems. I stand in wonder at their absolute disgust for Humanity and their hunger to see it smashed in the womb, gassed in the death chamber, worked to death in Siberian work camps, marched into the fields and tortured to death in the millions in the “killing fields”, and yet they feel no compunction over it, no guilt of any kind. These are the deeds of their ideological Socialist/Marxist brothers and yet, even upon reflection of the terror inflicted by Socialism upon Humankind in the 20th Century, they still cannot bring themselves to regard Life as anything more than disposable clumps of cells.
.
If health-care dollars are so scarce, the British NHS could free some up by firing some medical ethicists. It’d probably improve the standard of medical ethics, as well.
I wonder why everything is a slippery slope, except for the De-sanctification of Human Life?
After serious, sober, ‘critical analysis’ that’s just the way it is.
The black robes are smarter than us, dontcha know.
I watched my father die of dehydration and starvation in a hospice. They gave him oxygen and morphine. He was 84 and had dementia/parkinsons.
These are the places you go to die. My wife and I pleaded to take him to our home to die.
I never really forgave my mother but I guess you do what you have to do.
The last place i want to go to die is an institution.
I can understand not wishing to have heroic measures taken to keep you alive.
But an IV is hardly heroic.
Is there no Leftist who thinks that if we start by dehydrating elderly dementia patients, it might take us down a road where we simply euthanize the handicapped at birth?
~Revnant Dream
Aah, they already do want to euthanize the handicapped at birth.
You should keep up.
They also want to euthanize the incurably demented/insane, age being no bar. If they ever get into power and get emergency powers because of the dire economic conditions which they themselves have created it will end with,
“What?” “He disagrees with our policies?!!” “This person is certifiable!”
Atheists and their rank materialism, way to go.
“Hello…uhh…can we have your liver?”
“What?”
“Your liver…ahhh…it’s a large glandular organ in your ab-do-men.”
Ask my 86 year old mother about death panels, and you will get an earful.
She and her friends have called doctors of their friends to explain that the person is still very active and shouldn’t be just sent home to die.
I wonder if these same people will allow an A.I.D.S. patient in the terminal stages of the disease to ‘dehydrate’??
Belated entry for The Devil’s Dictionary, by Ambrose Bierce: “Medical ethicist: an individual hired by a hospital to enable them to rationalize the murder of patients.”
It seems to me that many of the commenters above are missing the point.
It is not quality of life issues we are dealing with – it is the idea that we should terminate those who we deem to have a very poor quality of life because it saves money. This is the horrific essense of socialism exposed to is very marrow.
“it is the idea that we should terminate those who we deem to have a very poor quality of life because it saves money”
~Gord Tulk
It is rank materialism.
There are not various qualities of death.
Hans, well said.
Revnant Dream @ 7:21, thank you. That was great.
Lance is right about Tommy Douglas not being dead enough. Tommy would have approved of death panels.
I sat at my mothers bedside for 13 days and some nights while waiting for her to pass away. She had a massive stroke at 87 and was brain dead. There is something wrong with this system and I am not taking sides but there has got to be a better way than this. When my dog could no longer stand or control her bowels I took her to to the Vet who gave her one small needle to put her into a deep sleep and one more to stop her heart while I cried like a baby. She died so peacefully. Just saying. There must be a better way when our pets get better treatment than my uncle who died sreaming in pain because because he had his quota of sedatives for the day. I was told (with a straight face) “because it’s addictve.” There has to be a balance without the “slippery slope” coming into play. Perhaps a little logic and common sense without invocing government or God.
peterj, sorry for your mom.
I agree. A DNR (if they have them in Canada) or failing that a unanimous family decision.
Not, repeat, not, a doctor, board, health-specialist, nurse or politician.
“Not, repeat, not, a doctor, board, health-specialist, nurse or politician.”
That is the crux of the matter.
Peterj, I am sorry about your mother. My own mother suffered a massive stroke at 85 and she lingered for 7 days before she passed away. She could take no water or nourishment so she basically dehydrated until her organs failed. I suppose it could have been worse but honestly, are we so lacking in compassion that we treat our pets better at end of life than we do our parents. It’s something I’m not looking forward to.
lance….we do indeed have DNR’s in Canada(at least in Alberta).Just make damn sure your better half,kids,best friend,etc knows about it and has a copy. My mother-in-law had one,and when she suffered a massive stroke in Edmonton while we were working in Ft.Mac.,they kept her “alive” until we arrived 6 hrs later because”they couldn’t find it”. Our oldest still has nightmares about it,as she didn’t have a copy,or even know about it.To me,if you have a DNR,it is just as important to let everybody who cares for you know about,the same as organ donation.
And well said at 12:32 AM.
I’ve never been comfortable with the idea of having people die of dehydration and starve to death. I hope that if I ever get to that stage I’ll have enough intellect remaining to put a bullet through my head before going down the dementia route.
Old people are a major drain on the system and this should have been blindingly obvious to the morons who came up with socialized medicine. There’s clear age discrimination in a system which spends far more to save an iv drug user with cirrhosis and AIDS “because he’s so young” than on a healthy 95 year old. I’ve seen 95 year olds that are far healthier than some of the young street addicts I used to see in Vancouver. One of the problems that I see is people who had bioprosthetic heart valves implanted when they were 75 under the impression that the valve would outlast the patient and they show up at age 90 with a badly leaking valve and no cardiac surgeon will touch them.
Interestingly, one of the things that seems to malfunction as people get older is the sense of thirst. I’ve lost track of the number of 80 year olds that show up in hospital dehydrated and looking like they’re terminal. A couple of bags of saline later they’re suddenly awake and active. Of course, once they go home they seem to forget to drink and end up in ER to repeat the cycle again. So, presumably they’re not suffering if one chooses to not intervene when they show up hypotensive and near comatose.
I view my job as fixing peoples aberrant physiology, not killing them. If the government wants to save money, then let them set up euthanasia centers where people can drop off their demented relatives and get a tax refund in return. No doctors need be involved as it’s a lot easier to kill people than repair them.
As far as medical ethicists go, I think this is one of the first groups of people who should undergo involuntary euthanasia. Having an interest in life-extension technologies I was somewhat disturbed to read medical ethicist papers uniformly condemning this practice as it would bankrupt the medical system and disrupt society. As if socialized medicine hasn’t already done that and medical ethicists are strangely silent on sex selective abortion.
@ lance at July 18, 2012 12:32 AM
Your story parallels mine except the time involed. What I found extreemly frustrating was the Doctors coming in at the 11 day mark and commenting on how strong she was, and then leaving again. I was allowed to dunk a swap in apple juice and moisten her lips, to which she actually responded in wanting more while she was being dehydrated to death. Automatic response I was told. 2 more days of this before she died with the doctor marvelling at her “staying power.” I can only pray that I die when the time comes before I get to the hospital. Like I said, there has got to be a better system at the end. (Loki ?)
sorry… that was to Albert at July 18, 2012 1:28 AM
there has got to be a better system at the end
~peterj
If we saw to it that the politicians and their family members got the same treatment the rest of us do things would change very quickly.
The problem is they have access to elite care on our dime.
Apply triage principles. Use the limited resources to fix the fixable not to prolong the suffering of the terminally ill. …and yes I would want those principles applied to myself.
Yes, by all means, eliminate free choice. More of that fallible reasoning, I suppose…
Thanks Revnant Dream. Worth repeating.
I stand in wonder at (the left’s) absolute disgust for Humanity and their hunger to see it smashed in the womb, gassed in the death chamber, worked to death in Siberian work camps, marched into the fields and tortured to death in the millions in the “killing fields”, and yet they feel no compunction over it, no guilt of any kind. These are the deeds of their ideological Socialist/Marxist brothers and yet, even upon reflection of the terror inflicted by Socialism upon Humankind in the 20th Century, they still cannot bring themselves to regard Life as anything more than disposable clumps of cells.
Rizwan, agreed, and that is why I hope that the Rev will not be upset that I saved his comment.
Water, food and pain relief are not extraordinary measures.Only a heartless monster would think that. If we must reduce financial waste, why not remove these mouth-breathers from the payrolls and the resources to help the sick and dying as any just society would do?
Euthanasia frees up more money for the politicians to spend buying votes, and that’s one reason politicos are enthusiastic about full government control of healthcare ( single payer ) – they control all the money. For them, the question is, how do I spend the money to get the most votes per $.