Dan Wheldon is dead. There were far too many cars in the race (34) for a fairly high-banked 1 1/2 mile oval with laps speeds well over 200 MPH (Indianapolis is 2 1/2 miles with low banking).
An accident, indeed a death, waiting to happen. The stands were nowhere near full. Clearly the large field and the $5 million extra if Wheldon won were effectively a pretty desperate attempt to gain attention for, and to save, open-wheel racing in the US. At a time when there are even lots of empty seats at NASCAR Chase events (yes, I watch them too).
IndyCar should now end. F1, especially this year with DRS and KERS, provides superb–and pretty safe–open wheel laps. If Americans are not enamoured of open-wheel give it up. Though why they cannot compete as either builders or drivers (remember Michael Andretti?) in F1, the highest tech, beats me.
Basically F1 is B-O-R-I-N-G.
How many years has it been since someone actually passed another car.
You watch pit stops in Nascar or indy car and its pure poetry in motion. A pitstop in F1 is 25 guys surround the car and you can’t see a thing.
It may be hight tech and expensive but it lack entertainment value.
I like it all , and to hear those F1 cars idle at 12,000 rmp is amazing.
I like nascar to but have never gotten into it enough to truley appreciate the effort that goes into that event but i still respect it and i do not think iti is a bunch of red necks doing a neevr ending set of left turns people who say that are simply uneducated.
There simply shouldn’t be open wheel racing at ovals period.
Are we going to hear from the Pope next. Racing is dangerous, get over it.
Racing open wheel cars on 1 1/2 mile oval like Las Vegas at 215 MPH is crazy.Nascar was wise enough to put restrictor plates on the cars for the high speed tracks years ago.It is even more necessary for open wheel cars since without fenders when they touch wheels at over 200 MPH somebody is going airborne.
Dear me.
A driver died. What of it?
Toytown stuff.
There is still one last ultimate test of man and machine and every year it kills the men to prove it.
For a concise summary click here: you may need to cut and paste.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man_TT
As for the well paid poseurs of F1 and all the rest there is little to say.
Kindest Regards
The problem here is that damned track.
C’mon now. Starting to sound like those anguished safety nannies who want to make toboggan helmets mandatory.
I mean, let’s put it in perspective: the chances of an Indy-car driver dying a violent death are a lot less than those of a resident of some of our “northern communities”.
As long as they’re not endangering the general public and it’s not costing the taxpayer, then let them do what they want. Drivers who think it’s too risky can simply walk away – they are, after all, professionals who are aware of the risks. If it isn’t drawing the crowds and it doesn’t make financial sense then it’ll fold anyway.
It’s a dangerous sport. The men and women who take part in it know this.
Never expected to see a nanny state post here at SDA, but heartened to see the responses of the readers.
Mixed Martial Arts is dangerous and should be banned..
Aug 25, 2010 · The Canadian Medical Association is calling for a ban on mixed martial arts in Canada.
Car Racing is good for beer sales..
I make a point of not commenting too loudly on the idiocy that is the NHL. Whatever turns your crank. It would be best if people who know little or nothing about motorsport refrain from commenting.
I’ve been involved in motor racing for more than 50 years and the safety of both race circuits and driver’s equipment has made huge advances.
The mortality rates of the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s were very high.
No matter what, racing is still dangerous.
ohh well if we are going there …don’t ban it don’t do anything to it , as it is thosem ens choice to get in the cars and race , no different than a man who want’s to get in the ring and slug it out , or a guy who want’s to lace up his skates , those arwe what i like to call occupational hazards and those cars ,cages,and hockey players are pretty darn protected as it is there will alway’s be some who die literally “doing what they love” but for me to tell them no it is unsafe is simply silliness .
These are adults and they know there are dangers involved with the sports they compete in .
Get over it.
Just wait til this weekend @ Talladega as they go 2 by 2 in the most stupid racing in NASCAR, they should all be 3/4 mile high banl or low bank.
Dantona & Talladega need a quick right left @ the end of turns 2 & 3…………get rid of the ristrictor plates & race..
Oval racing = boring. Seriously.
F1 – passing – you might have missed the race a couple back where (I think it was) Button started at the rear, made it to the front, was dropped back to last position and still won the race – or came in second. A little bit of passing there.
Granted I think the TV coverage stinks, being close to incomprehensible.
And given that 15 cars piled up at 200+ mph, flew hundreds of yards (seriously, one poor bastard is flying over most of the accident) in the air, and turned into fireballs & scrap skidding across the oval, one dead? Pretty safe to me.
If you are into racing cars I have no problem with that..
But when limp wrist woosies in North Carolina government come into my dojo and tell me I can’t train martial artists for MMA mixed martial arts because its too dangerous,
I say look at this.
2 months after our MMA sport was banned-
We might beat the bloody crap out of each other,
but we don’t go up into the stands and kill the spectators..
Racing (any) is dangerous, period. It is also human nature to compete. Best thing is to use what they call “risk management”.
@Fearless Leader
>>> Charlotte Motor speedway,Coca-Cola 600 on Memorial Day … Three spectators were killed and eight other were injured.
Really? You have a link or a citation for that? What year? I don’t recall that happening…
Right. Indy car is sooooooo boring that all major networks and anyone else for that matter has gone berserk providing several minutes of lead off time for the story. No interest there at all eh. Indy car will perversely benefit from the crash. For those of us old enough to remember, Indy was a reliable venue for death and destruction for a long, long time. There were deaths at almost every race. Nowadays, motor sport rarely has much of anything entertaining besides infant millionaire drivers, boobs and Red Bull. The only time anything interesting happens is when one of the child drivers gets too excited and causes a wreck — likely because he has OD’d on energy drinks. Even then serious injury rarely occurs, and when it does the sport doubles viewers.
Frankly I am disappointed to see SDA engaging in this sort of concern troll hysteria.
The track reverted to its original name, Charlotte Motor Speedway 2010 after Spectators sitting in the area where the crash occurred said a tire and suspension parts flew into the fourth-turn grandstands at Lowe’s Motor Speedway and struck the spectators
From 1997 to 1999 the track hosted the Indycar Series. On lap 61 of the 1999 race, a crash led to a car losing a tire, which was then propelled into the grandstands by another car. Three spectators were killed and eight other were injured in the incident. The race was canceled shortly after, and the series has not returned to the track since. The incident, along with a similar incident in July 1998 in a Champ Car race at Michigan International Speedway, led to new rules requiring cars to have tethers attached to wheel hubs to prevent tires from breaking away in a crash. Also following the crash, the catch fencing at Charlotte and other SMI owned tracks was raised from 15 feet (4.6 m) high with 3 feet (0.91 m) overhangs to 21 feet (6.4 m) with 6 feet (1.8 m) overhangs to help prevent debris from entering the stands.
In February 1999, Lowe’s bought the naming rights to the speedway, making it the first race track in the country with a corporate sponsor. Lowe’s chose not to renew its naming rights after the 2009 NASCAR season.
I’m not sure what point Fearless was trying to prove, but the 3 dead/8 injured incident at Charlotte Motor Speedway was during an INDYCAR race in 1999. Those cars haven’t gone back to Charlotte since.
Anyway, that was the most horrific wreck I’ve ever seen. It’s a minor miracle only one driver was killed. RIP, Dan.
My neighbors child was killed in that one.
I’m not sure what point Fearless was trying to prove
–
Point…
Government bans sports that are not corporate sponsored.
You think they care about the blood and death?
follow the money..
I guess I didn’t sell/tax enough beer commercials and cigarettes..
In February 1999, Lowe’s bought the naming rights to the speedway,
Lowe’s chose not to renew its naming rights after the 2009 NASCAR season.
–
Just saw that one,
answered my own point…
No one forced these drivers into their respective race cars. If you’re offended or angered by car racing then don’t watch and if you’re saddened by the fact that a driver was killed then send a car.
Mark finally reveals his true leftist liberal nanny state loving stripes.
I would suggest better oversight on track design. Stronger guidelines may be necessary on the amount of cars permissible per race and per track to prevent horrific outcomes like this. Safety should not be sacrificed for ticket sales.
Indeed, this seems like the classic case of someone who stands to make a lot of money, but doesn’t actually have to get in a car making a stupid decision on behalf of the drivers in order to “make things more interesting.”
Wheldon stood to make $5 million if he won the race.
That was part of a gimmick that many of the drivers thought would create a dangerous situation.
Race organizers had wanted a NASCAR driver to start from the back of the grid and, had they won, would claim the $5 million prize. No NASCAR drivers came forward, so Wheldon took up the offer.
That jammed up the starting grid. At 34 cars, that was too many, according to Paul Tracy, on a track like the Las Vegas Speedway.
lronically, Wheldon ran over Tracy’s back tire as Tracy was braking because of a tangle ahead of him, catapulting Wheldon’s car into a precarious position.
Have the market decide, if sponsors didn’t pay or fans didn’t show up Indy would die.
Oval racing in general is boring. 3, 4, 500 miles of going nowhere.
I like F1, a race lasts ~50laps so 90minutes or so. KERS and DRS have lead to some great racing this year. I think my shoes are still wet from going to the Montreal race.
I like the technology battle in F1. Sure you get the big budget team at the top, but that’s where they deserve to be. Then you see other teams dial in their car and end up with top 10 finishes where at the beginning of the season they couldn’t even make the grid. Or you have Lotus route their exhaust forward to exit under the car for more down-force and have it light the car on fire a couple times.
The death of Dan Wheldon was tragic, to that there is no doubt, my sympathies go out to his family, and friends around the world.
What many of you may not know is why the race had so many entries compared to most other Indy Car races this year. This was the last race for the current Dallara chassis used by all the teams. So the teams were literally trying to use up the cars before they became obsolete, and sold off as novelty collector items.
The reasons the cars were being replaced was two fold. First, Indy Car wanted to inject some excitement into the series by having a new different car, that was designed to allow teams to use their own designs for some of the aerodynamic package, such as side pods, cowlings. That, and the return to turbo engines by many engine builders would allow teams to be seen as different, and create more innovation and interest in the cars.
The second reason was for safety, part of the specifications of the new car are design elements to reduce the likely hood of cars becoming airborne from driving over the tires of another car. Which is what happened in Dan Wheldon’s crash. The design elements include wider and stronger front wings and side pods to help shield the front wheels from hooking the front wheels of another racer. The other design element, which stands out the most of all the changes to the new cars, is the requirement of body work behind the rear wheels, literally a rear bumper system to prevent the launching of cars over each other. Over the last few years there have been a number of incidents of cars becoming airborne in the Indy Car series, but fortunately there were no fatalities until yesterday.
Dan Wheldon was deemed eligible to race for the $5 million bonus yesterday, as he did not have a full time ride this year, Las Vegas was only his 3rd race of the season.But he was a very experienced driver, he did win his second Indianapolis 500 this summer. And it was his experience and exuberance for the sport that allowed him to be a colour commentator on TV for several races this year. Those factors, and his commitment and passion for Indy Car racing led to the league hiring him as a test driver for the prototype of next year’s new car. So in a twist of irony, he was helping develop a race car that would have greatly mitigated the circumstances that led to his death yesterday. One of his fellow racers has already suggested the new car be labeled the DW001 to honour his work in helping develop driver safety.
As to the argument that open wheel racing on ovals should not be allowed, because it is unsafe and boring, compared to F1, that runs on road courses being safer and more exciting I say bullocks. Regarding the safety of F1 cars, they have done nothing to prevent cars going airborne, remember Robert Kubica at Montreal two years ago? I believe F1 has been dodging the bullet of an airborne crash killing a driver for a number of years, I hope Wheldon’s death will be a wake-up call to them to implement safety changes. As to the entertainment factor in the two series, I have seen boring and exciting road course races in both Indy Car and F1, and both series continually tinker with cars and rules to make the races more exciting. And also it is how it is presented on television that either holds or loses our attention. One of the most exciting races I ever watched was last year, I watched the Iowa Indy Car race, held on a small oval track where cars were doing 200 mph. Instead of watching the TV broadcast, I watched the entire race via a web feed from the driver’s view of Tony Kanaan, who started near the back of the field and sliced and diced his way forward to finish first. The speeds there are high, the cars were close to each other, passes occurred all over the track, I’ve never seen any F1 or Indy Car race (since I started watching in the 1960s) have that degree of sustained entertainment, but I will not say one series is better than the other overall, it’s like saying chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla.
By the way Mark, I do remember Michael Andretti’s attempt at running in F1, and how poor it was, but I also remember his father Mario Andretti winning the F1 championship, coming from running the USAC series (forerunner of Indy Car.) As for US teams running in F1, it has been done by Roger Penske and Dan Gurney (winner of a Grand Prix race in his own car) but the likely reason it is not done today, is because the series is mainly run in Europe, or in countries where the races are run at a time to be on prime-time European TV, so American teams would be hard pressed to secure sponsorships from American companies since they would get poor coverage in their main market.
In closing I say R.I.P. Dan Wheldon, you will be missed, but not forgotten.
Kill Marathons! Clearly they’re less safe than Indy.
Over-react much Mark?
I hate football with a passion. Sell the Riders!
Frankly, I don’t give a damn. It’s sad a driver died, but he was a pro, and understood the risks involved.
Government should stay the Hell out of racing, as longs as it takes place on private property.
I consider myself a real gearhead, but I don’t watch NASCAR, or Indy car, or F1 racing at all. They have all gotten too far away from their roots to interest me anymore. I did go to a sprint car race a couple of years ago, and really enjoyed it.
As an ex- British Formula Ford Champion, I just have to say killing off Indy because a driver died misses the whole point of racing. Racing cars is supposed to be dangerous. There has to be the risk of death or dismemberment, otherwise cowards would win races.
I doubt drivers are pushing to kill off Indy Car racing. This risk free society that is perpetually being constructed is defies common sense. One racing driver dies in every ____ thousand races and everybody is freaking out. If its death that bothers you Mark, you’d be better to push outlawing bicycle riding. More bicycle riders get killed by cars that don’t see them than will ever be killed in Indy car racing.
Shit happens when you are doing 220mph. I can’t speak for all racing drivers, but I like it that way.
I was advocating no government action. My point was that the people running the race set it up (size of track, field, and speed) so that something like this was not hard to imagine–the size and catastrophic nature of the crashes, if not the death itself.
Thanks to Al the Fish for his comment. If things next year are indeed significantly better in technical terms that will be a very Good Thing.
So long as those running things still do not take stupid risks in pursuit of ratings and money.
Mark
Ottawa
Mark said: “So long as those running things still do not take stupid risks in pursuit of ratings and money.”
Mark, that’s what pro racing -is-. Taking stupid risks for money. Its sad when people die, but people die every day for less purpose.
One of the reasons Indy and F-1 and Nascar etc. are losing spectators is nobody ever crashes anymore. In the 1930’s, the 1950’s and ’60’s they used to lose a couple guys every -week-. Lemans had a running body count every year.
Personally I like to -go- racing. Watching it is a waste of time IMHO. But, pro racing pays for the racetracks.
You ask me, they should -loosen- the rules, let guys go as fast as the technology can push them. It’d be fun and it’d be -real- racing, not this all-cars-are-the-same BS we see on TV.
Good post Al the Fish. Only comment I’d make is speeds at Iowa are no where close to 200 mph. 177 was the fastest race lap. Still damn fast, but the kinetic energy you need to dissipate in a crash is not proportional to speed. my rough calculations on a 900 kg car, shows 2.7mj at 177mph (78m/s)and 4.2 mj at 215 (Vegas speed)
if you don’t like it, don’t watch; but please don’t nanny the rest of us with your preferences. completely surprised by such an attitude on sda.
Kill bicycle racing now!
I know someone who died of something. I think we should ban something.
Its racing, what do you want? There will always be deaths. Its not like nobody ever dies in F1. The fact that its front page news when it does happen in any racing sport is a testament to how safe these vehicles are. It used to be common for people to die. Now its a rarity.
Your nannystate upbringing is showing again. Seems some of you canucks cant quite get past the need to feel that anything remotely unsafe should be banned. Life has risks. Your far more likely to die in your own car going to work then those guys in indy racing are. Should we ban regular driving, too?
What amuses me about people proposing bans is that they never propose to ban the things THEY want. Only the things that you do that they deem unacceptable. Theyre more than happy to tell you how to live YOUR life for you.
“Mind your buisness.” Should be the mantra that we all live by.
NASCAR is awesome. I love….LOVE watching cars drive around an oval for three hours. Now that is talent. I’m glad we attribute such esteem to people who are the best at driving around the oval. They deserve it.
It’s also the kind of sport that any kid can get into. Sort of like soccer where all you need is a ball and some friends, no fancy equipment or money required to get into NASCAR. Just show up and start being a part of it, right? Yeah, that’s what I like.
I also like the people who attend NASCAR races; classiest bunch of folk you’ll ever find!