With word that nearly 5,000 appointments have been cancelled across Saskatchewan because of the rotating strikes by Health Sciences Association of Saskatchewan workers, I need to ask the government a serious health-care question: If it isn’t mandatory for the workers to participate in the government health-care monopoly then why is it mandatory for me to use it?
Imagine health sciences workers on strike and yet Canada Post legislated back to work when no one really missed them.
Somewhere priorities are a tad screwed?
Time to abolish all unions!
why is it mandatory for me to use it?
It’s not.
why is it mandatory for me to use it?
It’s not.
Posted by: phil at June 26, 2011 10:42 AM
You are correct but it is mandatory to pay for it and not possible to use that money to pay for an alternative.
If Harper had any guts,he would immediately introduce a bill making ALL unions essential,and negate their right to strike. Well,I can dream,can’t I?
“If Harper had any guts,he would immediately introduce a bill making ALL unions essential,and negate their right to strike.”
Actually he did mention this before the election was called. He was going to take the right to strike away from all government unions. This will be essential because of the major cuts you are going to see in the near future.
“If Harper had any guts…”
I’ll go one better. Public sector unions should not have the right to strike, period. Solved. You want to work for the government, then work for the government. If not, quit or – more blessedly – get fired.
mhb23re
Unions in the public sector are a CRIME against every last taxpayer. That is from LBJ one the lefties favorite presidents.
I still contend if you wanna work for the “government” at any level from part-time janitor all the way to and including being the PM, minimum wage is all that should be allowed.
Then we will start to see real shrinkage in the “entitled to my entitlement” leech-class.
Free to be fair gov workers should be paid the same as the people that pay them.
a@c the whole idea is to deny the ride.
If they can do better anywhere else they wont be sucking our wallets empty,we can have better control of them if we make sure there is less of them.
You know the conservative ideal=LESS GOVERNMENT
The first step is federal right to work legislation
Free you are right but they are like the little white seat in the little room we do need them some time. So lets pay what it’s worth.
I guess Phil is the new resident SDA troll.
The simple solution is to ban all public sector unions. Follow that with amending the Canada Heath Care act to open the system to the free market and allow the private sector to compete.
In a few years you would find less people in the public sector and more on the private with the over all costs going down as the public system having access to the new price based system.
I guess Phil is the new resident SDA troll.
Posted by: Maple Leaf Party at June 26, 2011 1:01 PM
Correct. Phil, and another johnny-come-lately, Alex, are best ignored.
I can tell you from experience thatUnions, especially public sector Unions, are not the problem. The problem has been and continues to be the sense of entitlement that public sector unions have due to the decades of caving that public sector management has done. GM would be a notable private sector example of this. In the public sector a manager that sticks their neck out gets it cut off. Those that go with the flow get promoted. The advent of professional human resources departments has excellerated this. Front line Supervisors in the public service get thrown under the bus everytime enforcing the rules gets difficult. When they try to dicipline union members they get a harassment charge and if that doesn’t happen and the union opts for arbitration HR decides it isn’t worth the money so then a precident gets set. So the moral of the story ends up being keep your head down and don’t cause waves. It is sickening what goes on. You may say well why don’t you leave then. Believe it has crossed my mind but I have learned to play the game. Sometimes I feel like chucking it all but then the bills come in. So to wrap up, the Unions are what they are because they have been allowed to get away with waht they do for decades. Why wouldn’t they keep doing what has worked?
To add to above the phrase “rise to your level of incompetence” has been never so true as it is in the public sector. I have endevored to rise no further 😉
Ive said it a million times. Any Union involved in Public services should have no right to strike.
Its should be handled by a none Partisan commitee when problems come about.
Public paid work should be protected since citizans pay for it. Negotitions should be public as well. Including Politicians giving themselves raises.
Well said Free. Uncle Meat has made a very valid argument, IMO. The collective Health Care is owned by everyone and responsible to no one. We have a crumbling, tattered, old institution with outdated, entitlement minded layers of workers instead of a state of the art medical/research facility manned with ambitious, forward thinking experts who have a stake in being the best.
The surgery that makes life livable for MS/ALS sufferers is not ‘approved’ in Canada! Why would a collective not want this procedure practised? Could it be that some practitioners do not want a liberating procedure because they enjoy working on a cure via generous grants from the same collective (taxpayers) who are forced to pay for their, the practitioner’s, priorities?
I was in the hospital in 1971 after a hit and run car accident (I was hit the driver of the vehicle ran) in 1971. The ‘old school’ (people who had practised before the Universal Health Care joke) Doctors and nurses were still in charge. The Hospital was spotless, rules were strict and were enforced, the food was good (we were given menus and the food tasted and looked like what it was claimed to be), my wound dressings were changed twice a day by a doctor, the doctor visited three or four times a day for ten to fifteen min and spoke to my family on a regular basis, the windows in the rooms were open, smokers could smoke and so could visitors. In short, the hospital took care of the patients not the staff and union big shots. I never felt threatened by the bacteria of the unclean staff or the environment – the sheets were bleached and starched (changed every day), the staff wore bleached white uniforms, floors were mopped, bleached and waxed every day, towels were never recycled or used by anyone but the patient.
I would be afraid to go to stay in the hospital in Canada today. I know of too many people who went in for one treatment and got sick or died from another disease that he/she fell ill from in the hospital. I have visited the hospital with trepidation; to breath in stale, bacteria ridden, recycled air, to note the filth in corners of the floors (esp bathrooms), to see rugs used in public areas, to see blood on the floor, to note filthy bedroom slippers on cleaning staff and long sleeved shirts with dirt on the rims of cuffs, nasty food, hostile workers, intolerant attitudes, little compassion. Things have gone way downhill in Canada since the taxpayers were forced to pay for medicare.
Said it in another thread, but I’ll repeat it here:
Simple rule. If you’re a public sector union, and you insist on a service monopoly, you give up the right up to strike.
If you allow competition, strike all you want.
KevinB: I’ve said it too…
Spot on.
If I can add – the problem is more than what it is made out to be.
Some of the best Cancer surgeons have moved here because of insurance and life style etc in the USA. Unfortunately they concentrate their practice in Ottawa, Toronto and Vancouver.
As a Cancer recoverer/survivor (so far) I am thankful for universal health care but not so thankful for the aftercare of and by the slogs. I had to empty my own urine bag etc while the nurses were off chatting on cells.
Think folks of this aftercare say in far off posts like Nipawin, Canora or even Yorkton. If the Government of SK did any real survivability stats -I suspect death rates of rural folks due to??? would be HIGH given lack of access to service.
It is an immigration issue also as if Doctors want to come here- a post to rural areas should be part of their eventual residency.
I would like to see a law capping total Public Service renumeration at 90% of an equivalent position in the private sector. Why 90% – job security. We can even raise that to 95% if a fair and effective firing policy is implemented to get rid of the deadwood instead of sending them off for “training” at taxpayer expense.
The 90% would take in to account hours of work, pensions, benefits, productivity etc. A union would only be able to negotiate the split. Want more pension – less take home, accumulated sick days – less pay or pension, shorter hours – smaller bundle to divide up etc.
This would free governments from being forced into contract demands that are a dream for the rest of us.
Actually Phil in case you missed it, if any Saskatchewan resident wants to receive healthcare in their own province there is only one option, the government monopoly option. There is no private option unless I want to leave the country, which I would do if I had to. But to receive healthcare here it is mandatory for me to use the government monopoly.If you know something the rest of us don’t, then let us know…
“It is an immigration issue also as if Doctors want to come here- a post to rural areas should be part of their eventual residency”
Now THAT is a truly leftish idea, and flies in the face of personal freedom and liberty. Dirty little secret, LS: US surgeons/specialists don’t have to move to canuckistan, period. And last time I checked, we had a doctor shortage, not a surplus. So demanding they work in the sticks isn’t going to bait the hook for them. Sorry to burst your bubble.
In a free market system, the market could help entice them to parts remote. Barring that, the governments could offer short or even long-term financial incentives to get them up north or wherever, although that’s a solution I’d prefer not to see. However, when you’re 100% socialized, that’s about all that’s left.
mhb23re
Phil is a troll, but he is correct, you don’t have to use the Canadian system. You can also drive to the USA, or you can curl up and die. These are our choices.
MHB makes a very important point, nobody has to be a doctor in Canada. They already hoist US doctors for a whole year of residency, telling them where they can practice would just insure none come here at all.
The answer to the problem of rural medicine is, obviously, PAY THEM MORE. If a guy makes a significant premium for working in East Mooseantler Sask instead of Toronto, there really will be guys who will take the money.
That reality seems not to have penetrated any management brains in the socialized medicine world
There is no private option unless I want to leave the country
Right, meat, there is an option, so nothing is mandatory. Doctors can also opt out of the system, if they choose.
Public service unions have a place – it’s keeping management on the straight and narrow. This is based on personal experience as the secretary/treasurer of a national public service union. Management didn’t read the contract, tried all sorts of tricks to ignore it, fired people without due cause, and on and on.
If management were perfect, there would be no need for unions, just like everywhere else.
“Public service unions have a place – it’s keeping management on the straight and narrow”
I’m calling bs on that one. This is not the 1930’s. There are more than enough labour laws and standards on the books to adequately protect employees from any management misbehaviour.
Public service unions exist to shield the DF’ers in the workplace from well-deserved discipline. Good employees no longer need a union to protect them from unscrupulous employers.
Phantom:
I actually proposed this here a few years ago:
Want to solve rural medicine problems? Let doctors set up clinics in rural areas. They have to provide some percentage of service (say, 80%, but I’m not beholden to any number) within the public sector, but are free to charge over and above standard provincial rates for services beyond that.
This lets Canadian doctors stay in Canada, make extra money, provide service in rural areas, better utilize scare resources (and improve them) in remote areas, and take some of the strain off major urban centres.
What’s likely to happen? Doctors will set up a rotation practice; the more weeks you’re willing to work in Sudbury or Moosonee, the more you make, but you don’t have to commit to living there for years. Yes, doctors will fight among themselves to be there in the summer, and to avoid it in winter, but the rules could set up minimum staffing requirements.
It’s a simple win-win-win arrangement. Chance of happening? Zero.
Actually, if they changed the rules and made the unions collect the workers dues rather than having it taken off the paychek, thing would even out real fast.
Never belonged to a union. Once applied for a job, they told me to sign collective agreement. Told them to go and shove it.
Got a different job.
There ought to be separation of union and the state.
In 2009 our son’s father-in-law who lives in Chilliwack must have acquired H1N1 shortly before a vacation trip to Palm Springs. Within two days of arriving in Palm Springs he had to be admitted to a hospital. He was in there for about a month and then when the doctors there thought it was ok he was medivacted to Richmond BC hospital where he stayed for a while and then to the hospital in Chillwack until he was finally discharged. The Canadian travel insurance company wanted to move him sooner, but the doctors would not let it happen until he was out of danger. Both he and his wife said the patient care in the California hospital was excellent and the hospital was very clean. Richmond was not as clean and Chillwack was worse yet. The patient care was also worse in the Canadian hospitals. They said the experience was a real eye opener.
Wow. A pretty intense debate about a very serious subject. One that I am more than familiar with.
Politicians of various stripes decry the possibility of a “two-tier” health care system. What they apparently do not recognize is that it already exists…the second tier is called the US.
My wife has MS…she is among the 80,000 persons in Canada who are desperate to get some sort of treatment; treatment that is readily available, but is denied because it is called “experimental”.
So here I sit. Do I listen to the boffins in Health Canada who tell me there is nothing to be done, or do I take alternative measures to assist my beloved wife who is suffering and is going to die in front of me unless I do something.
For me the choice was obvious.
I spent $6000 in Canada to have the various scans done in order to establish that her veins were seriously blocked. From private clinics here in Vancouver…the public system would not allow us to have the scans done under medicare, even though they authorize such procedures on a daily basis for others. But it is OK, even in Canada, if you are prepared to pay for it yourself.
Because, of course, it is MS, and such procedures are not allowed in the public system. MS patients, in Canada, are the new lepers.
Then, armed with the knowledge that her veins were seriously blocked, I took her to a renowned clinic in California, where a hour-long, completely non-invasive procedure, restored her circulation. We used to joke that she could chill a can of beer within 15 minutes by simply holding it; it took all of 15 minutes for her hands & feet become pink and warm again.
All in, I spent about $17,000 for the process. Would I do it again? Definitely.
But I am fortunate, because I have the money to afford it. A lot of people are screwed, because they simply cannot afford to do what I did.
So much for socialized medicine, where beaurocrats decide what is important and what is not. After all, the “public good” takes precedence over individual persons with problems.
Such is my rant. I hope it adds something to the debate.
The thing is that private options are already available within Canada. There are a # of private clinics offering the colonoscopy MRIs etc and more – they just can’t officially sedate you like hospitals.
And Yes – you can travel to provinces that offer them and our provincial health insurance does cover it all.
KevinB, you’ll be surprised to hear that your proposal is already in force in Timmins, Kenora, et al. Because of the simple fact that they can’t get anyone to move there for -any- money, they offer to fly locums in and set them up in a hotel for their stay, plus a healthy shift bonus, AND the doctor bills standard OHIP on top. The recruiters have to scramble to keep the schedule full, but it works.
Hospitals in Southern Ontario are increasingly going to this locum model, because docs are increasingly refusing to hire on contract, join staff and be responsible for covering call. The money isn’t good. As locum, you make more, don’t have to put up with the hospital BS, have zero responsibility for call, and can make a schedule that suits YOU instead of somebody else.
Province pushes docs, docs just step aside and add a little push of their own. Province falls on its face. Again. Kung Fu medicine.
A large problem with public sector unions is the squeezing of the gap for various categories within the union. The unions would be happy with a single pay grid where everyone receives the same wage. The janitor receives the same wage as a highly trained specialist would receive no matter what the field. The highly trained have less years of earning due to longer required training periods and usually have substantial debts incurred in that training to pay off. The corporation basis their wage scale on the lowest common denominator, so the unskilled laborer gets more then they are worth while the skilled specialists get less then are worth. This then makes it hard for these organizations to recruit the specialists that they need.