76 Replies to “YNoH2OKyoto”

  1. “Won’t someone think of the children?!
    I’m filled with indignation.
    And island rhythms.”
    Island rhythms.. love that!

  2. “NO! That IS the proposed and enacted policy! Remember Kyoto?”
    Are you dull? Like I said…that’s a problem with the political process…a direct result from it in fact…not a problem with the IDEA of climate change policy. If you’ve been paying attention to the wikileaks cables you’ may have heard about the implications that the US bullies and runs the show at all of the sit-downs…and that’s just an aside not, the real joke is how the entire process is organized.
    “NO! That IS the proposed and enacted policy! Remember Kyoto?”
    No..I was just stating the obvious…I’ve heard that argument numerous times.
    “NOPE. If we can get rid of those also, and not effect competitiveness then so be it.”
    What do you mean get rid of them without effecting competitiveness!!? They’re what DOES effect competitiveness…getting rid of them IS ‘not effecting competitiveness’..until we do so, it’s not fair game.
    “I make no such claims”
    Wow…next! Really my friend, you’re not doing a very good job at coming up with a rational debate….
    “If it was viable, the market would take care of things.”
    Now tell me how that isn’t a claim to a free market economy?
    “THAT is the root cause of our economic woes. Furthermore, Progressive such as yourself are obsessed with moving away from a free market economy”
    Good one…who are you talking to again? Mind quoting me on that? Provide some evidence that I support moving away from a free market.
    “your ludicrous economic philosophy.”
    And just what might that be..any quotes?
    “Yes I do, and it’s very consistent of me. ”
    Thanks Sherlock
    “yet you support gangster riddled industries such as Carbon Trading”
    Quote me.
    “Alternative energy companies which have been demonstrated to be fraudulent on a much larger scale than any other industry”
    Show me…name one.
    “Surely you understand what I’m trying to convey here. Please don’t be disingenuous by trying to split hairs about language and other things that are not relevant to this discussion.”
    I’m not splitting hairs…there is no solution to judge.
    “You’re being obtuse BTJ”
    Yeah, yeah…I’ve heard that before…what you’re trying to say without actually saying it, is that I won’t give in to your ignorant opinion – which makes unable to help but face it.
    “I don’t worship the oil and gas industry but I do appreciate its development as one of our greatest inventions.”
    For sure, absolutely, 100%, but it’s an invention that’s over a hundred years old! What other inventions that old do we have that, really, have changed so little? Plus the end of easy oil is coming…clean, thin, easy to extract ME oil won’t be around much longer.
    “Hay BTJ, come back to me when the Ontario Government stops subsidizing wind and solar power to the tune of some 70 cents a Megawatt produced.”
    Doesn’t even come close to approaching oil and gas payouts. Get back to me when you have something worth discussing.
    “Only a complete moron could think oil and gas are “subsidized” anywhere close to the equivalent of the 80cents/kWh the unworkable, uneconomical useless, intermittent, nightmare of solar power gets in Ontario.”
    Oh, so now it’s 80 cents..anybody actually know the figure? You set yourself up for failure here…if solar power is so ‘useless, intermittent, and unworkable’..which I’m not arguing…then how much power could it produce? You say it gets 80 cents/KWh…with so little production, how much could it really be subsidized.
    Oil and gas receives tens of billions of dollars…by Canada alone. The US…the entire war in the ME is really about oil.

  3. “Possibly, it could be that your audio set-up is not sufficient for the programs you are watching”
    Nope.
    Altec lansing for the computer.
    Marantz receiver and refurbished Telefunken speakers for the TV/movie watching.
    Old Pionneer Receiver for the old TV in the basment.
    All have the same problem.
    and my girlfriend has the same problem at her house with her set up which I have nothing to do with.
    And my friends have the same problems too.
    Actually most people I know complain of the same things I do.
    I know people who wear earplugs at the movie theater because the difference in volume between dialogue and music ( or sound effect ) is ridiculous.
    The music/sound effects actually hurt their ears.
    I know people who do not go to Movie theaters anymore because of that volume difference problem ( granted I’m old, I’m 51 )
    Most of my friends keep the remote in their hand when they are watching tv or a movie because they – just like me – must constantly adjust the volume higher for dialogue and lower for music and sound effects ( same problem between regular tv show and commercials, the latter being about 5 times louder than the former )
    Most people I know simply turn off the volume when commercials are on, so in the end LESS people ever watch TV commercials; it is counter productive to make them any louder.
    The louder they are the less people pay attention to them, people are simply annoyed.
    Not a very bright way of getting attention from potential customers…
    But it seems has become “normal” for anything audiovisual to have dialogue and music or sound effect at the two extreme opposites of volume.
    I guess it is a trend or a cultural thing.
    I don’t know.
    But I maintain this “trend” in volume differences is stupid.
    I’m not saying anyone here ( at SDA ) is stupid but the people in the business who make movies, videos and tv commercials are definitely stupid.

  6. “For sure, absolutely, 100%, but it’s an invention that’s over a hundred years old! What other inventions that old do we have that, really, have changed so little? ”
    How old are windmills BTJ” How old are elctric cars BTJ?

  7. “The little Bolshevik retards signing the first petition belong in Cuba or Venezuela.”
    And Cuba’s only a short swim away – through shark infested waters.

  8. “How old are windmills BTJ How old are elctric cars BTJ?”
    Again with the windmills!! Drop it already, I get it, you’re smart enough to be able to criticize windmills. Electric cars never got a chance..so really, they aren’t very old at all, their growth has been stunted…take cars though…they’ve changed tremendously…EXCEPT the basis of their engine.

  9. The basis of their engine is a direct rip off of steam technology,steam technology ripped off the gearing and drive train of ….you guessed it! WINDMILLS.

  11. BTJ: If your ever in Greensburgh, PA go to the four points by Sheraton hotel in the hallway to the restaurant there is a picture of an electric car from the turn of the century. It was the turn of the 20th century, 1890’s if I recall.
    Electric cars just don’t make sense. Its a simple mater of energy density. People want to go 600km’s on a fill at 100km’s an hour. For batteries or H2 to do that there needs to be multiple increases in energy density per pound.
    All industries receive tax subsidies, its how jurisdictions compete for the limited capital in the world. If the billions of dollars in capital where not spent in Canada for developing the oil sands they would have gone somewhere else and the hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs directly tied to that capital investment would be generating multiples in income and consumption taxes. A simple solution would be eliminate corporate taxes.

  12. “What the hell are you talking about? Giving money to oil and gas companies in the form of direct subsidies or tax breaks is the same goddamn thing as funding alternative energy projects.
    Posted by: BTJ ”
    Thats so pathetic. You’re trying to convince us that because government(s) don’t charge as much tax as you and enviro-activists want them to it’s the same as an actual subsidy where instead of collecting taxes the government cuts a cheque that “green” energy can’t survive without.
    I will give you this though; The US military presence in the mideast is a subsidy – on mideast oil.

  13. FOA
    Like I said, my wife complains of the same things. That said, I am certain that it is deliberate. The same can be said for Talk Radio. The commercials blare.
    Anyways, I do like the loud theaters and the spikes in volume as they relate to the movies. You know, explosions loud and secrets quiet.
    BTJ
    Bygones. We disagree.

  14. I do the same thing in supermarkets with people I see reading package labels. I tell them that according to scientists the largest portion of processed canned foods contain Dihydrogen Monoxide with trace elements of sodium chloride.
    They generally put the can back on the shelf. 😉

  16. Btj;My post had nothing to do with taxes,it was about ROYALTIES.How do the govts get royalties from wind power,or solar? Oil producing countries got rich on royalties,not taxes as some of them have NO taxes.As far as wind and solar being new,we’ve had wind powered ships and windmills for thousands of years and solar power since the dawn of creation ,so they are hardly new technology.

  17. “there is a picture of an electric car from the turn of the century.”
    Like I said numbskull..they never got a chance for technological growth.
    “Electric cars just don’t make sense. Its a simple mater of energy density.”
    Yes, I understand that…my point is the HUMANS INVENT THINGS. Batteries are the power packing cells of electricity…I have confidence that humans can create better and better batteries. Electricity can be MADE ANYWHERE, oil and gas not so much.
    “If the billions of dollars in capital where not spent in Canada for developing the oil sands they would have gone somewhere else”
    Ya, maybe back in our pockets!
    “Thats so pathetic. You’re trying to convince us that because government(s) don’t charge as much tax as you and enviro-activists want them to it’s the same as an actual subsidy where instead of collecting taxes the government cuts a cheque that “green” energy can’t survive without.”
    What in christ’s name are you talking about…where do you come up with this crap? Ah, right…you just puke out the same old neo-con garble about ‘enviro-activists’ at any chance, be it logical or not.
    “I do the same thing in supermarkets with people I see reading package labels.”
    What, you don’t read the labels? I trust you’re not one to shed your t-shirt in the summer.
    “solar power since the dawn of creation”
    Hahahahahahahaha! Great logic Einstein..by that same mutilated reasoning we’ve had blast furnaces since the discovery of fire.

  18. Those billions of dollars in capital come from investors not the Canadian tax payers. The billions that owners (shareholders) of Exxon, Shell, the Chinese , Japanese, Koreans, Total. . . poured into building the plants would have gone to building plants else where.
    The people who build those plants are Canadians, the people who work in those plants are Canadians, the people who service and support those plants are Canadians. All thanks to investments brought to Canada by competing for the investment.
    Do you have the same negative view of government massive subsidies for solar and wind power? both of which don’t generate nearly the employment that say the oil-sands do on a per dollar subsidy basis.
    Humans will solve the electrical car problem, when it becomes a problem. Even if battery technology doubled density every decade it’ll be 50 or 60 years before batteries pack the punch that gasoline does. And it doesn’t address the problem that electricity is a form of energy not a form of fuel, where does the electric power come from?
    A case could be made that it makes more sense to turn coal into liquid fuel than it does for turning coal electricity then into fuel for cars.

  19. btj;Coal and oil ARE solar energy you nitwit.The batteries that were used in the 18 and 19th century were called COAL.The best battery yet developed is uranium which took millions of years to charge and the nitwits dont want to use it.They are stupid and I hope that you dont put yourself in that camp.

  20. As we can see, the resident dolt, “Be The Jerk”, is not interested in discussion.
    He doesn’t provide facts, with backup facts or statements, just shouts louder.
    When confronted, he doesn’t make a cognet argument, instead he insults.
    Hey, BTJ, we are still awaiting how and why you define oil and gas subsidies?
    How much, by what device, and how often are these subsidies administered? You made a statement, but have not defended or defined it, except by shouting and ad hominem attacks.
    Surely, somebody with your great wisdom and knowledge should have no problem bringing wisdom to the rest of us, the unwashed masses….show the proof
    We’re waiting, oh enlightened one……

  21. “Those billions of dollars in capital come from investors not the Canadian tax payers. ”
    Subsidies come from the government…who funds the government?
    “Do you have the same negative view of government massive subsidies for solar and wind power?”
    Wow..have you been following the discussion? Yes, except THEY AREN’T MASSIVE! You lot love to blow alternative energy subsidies WAY out of proportion…while denying or ignoring the MASSIVE amounts of government money poured into oil and gas.
    “A case could be made that it makes more sense to turn coal into liquid fuel than it does for turning coal electricity then into fuel for cars.”
    Please, go ahead with it then, make the case…enough with the empty statements.
    “btj;Coal and oil ARE solar energy you nitwit.”
    Gee, thanks big guy. Are we really dumbing the debate down to that? ALL energy is solar by that argument…so where are we now with the debate?
    “He doesn’t provide facts, with backup facts or statements, just shouts louder.”
    Riiiight..and you lot are just bursting at the seams with them.
    “Hey, BTJ, we are still awaiting how and why you define oil and gas subsidies?”
    Wow…work on your reading skills friend…you can start by going back and getting caught up with this thread. A subsidy is a subsidy…any government hand out..whether it’s tax breaks or direct funding.
    “How much, by what device, and how often are these subsidies administered?”
    Huh? Go figure it out yourself! How often has nothing to do with the conversation…whether it’s once a month or once a week…in fact, that’s CLEARLY not how it works. What device? The government..that the device, end of story. How much…the Canadian gov’t alone spends 2-3 billion a year on tax incentives for Canadian oil and gas, then you have us in Afghanistan securing ME oil and gas…and the world’s governments together spends around half a trillion dollars on oil and gas subsidies.

  23. “[B]Global subsidies[/B] for fossil fuels dwarf support given to renewable energy sources such as wind and solar power and biofuels, Bloomberg New Energy Finance said.”
    Right. Global subsidies. And just which countries cut those cheques? USA? Canada? European? Nope, those are the countries that subsidize “green” energy. The biggest subsidizer of fossil fuel? Iran. The Saudis are right up there too. Do these countries also subsidize green energy? Not a chance. Try again.

  25. btj;Lower taxes are NOT a subsidy.Higher taxes are a subsidy for govts.as they ran for years with NO income taxes.Alberta still has NO sales tax.Is that a subsidy for Albertans?Income tax was a temporary measure introduced in Canada to pay for the first world war to be canncelled afterwards.When capital gains tax was introduced in the early seventies,the federal finance dept,was heard to wonder how the govt would be able to spend all the extra money.

  26. BTJ:
    I don’t ignore the subsidies given to industries. I do ignore the contention that the oil industry somehow gets unfair treatment or more than others. When you look at the economic and by extension the taxes generated by the oil industries the subsidies are a great tool to attract capital investment. A few billion total dollars spend over decades into an industry that produces over a billion dollars a week worth of economic activity doesn’t seem like a bad use of tax dollars.
    You love to use absolute dollars to make your point when you should convert it into something that allows comparison. A $ subsidy per $ GDP would be acceptable, a $ subsidy per job created would be another, I’d put the evil oil industries and its billions of subsidies (I’ll even let you define what counts as a subsidy) against the wind energy industry, aerospace, nuclear, or perhaps even the auto industry.
    What is the total subsidies received by the oil and gas industry in Canada? Ballpark it for me, over say the last 20 years. Whats the number, 10 billion? 20 billion? 100 billion?
    Lets say its 100 billion over 20 years, Canada produces 3 million barrels of oil a day and 6+ trillion cubic feet of gas a year (16.4 million, thousand-cfm per day) @ $50 /bbl and $4 /1000cfm this equates to $215 MILLION A DAY, each and every day (150 in oil and 65 million a day in gas). A chunk of that goes directly back to the tax payers via royalties, governments then get to tax the incomes of all the people toiling to find, produce, refine, ship all that stuff. Plus tax the corporate profits and just for good measure tax the Canadian shareholders when they get dividends or capital gains.
    215 million a day is 78 billion a year. Every subsidy dollar generates 15+ dollars in direct GDP. To get to even half of that type of return you would need to be able to build at least TEN THOUSAND 1-MW windmills per billion dollars, if you know where I can get a 1MW windmill installed and running for $100,000 I’d like to know.

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