“Jacques Parizeau and Gilles Duceppe are convinced that the Canadian Supreme Court’s 1998 ruling in the reference regarding the secession of Quebec is supportive of their goal. They remain firmly convinced that a unilateral declaration of independence by the Quebec National Assembly is legal under international law and now argue that the ICJ’s decision supports their position.”
Absolutely! Couldn’t agree more. And don’t forget to take YOUR share of the federal debt,and give back all our military gear in Quebec. Best of luck with your new Country.
Oh,and we’ll take Josh Gorges back from the Canadiens,too.
Just imagine,a Country where our government would no longer have to pander to Quebec,and WE wouldn’t have to make those equalization payments anymore,except to the Maritimes,and Manitoba,and Ontario.
Hm,maybe it’d be easier if the West separated.
If the Czechs and Slovaks can have an amicable split, so can we. I have no desire to ‘punish’ Quebec or ‘beat’ them in a breakup. I like Quebec and Quebeckers, and there are profound family, commercial and political ties that will always remain. But surely we can negotiate a satisfactory outcome that releases both Canada and Quebec from political arrangements we have outgrown. I have long wanted people from all across Canada to begin an informal but serious constitutional convention that does Quebec separation and a lot more – no lawyers and no politicians, until they are needed – to begin the business of redefining Canada. More power to cities? Bunch the maritimes together into a more powerful and integrated unit, while maintaining regional identities? Same for the west? We could do this!
Quebec won’t go anywhere . . . two reasons
First . . .they are too addicted to the $Billions in transfer payments every year. Without this giant subsidy the truth of the weakness of Quebec’s moribund economy would be obvious and people wouldn’t be happy when their schools and hospitals had to close. Canada is the Funding Deaker, Quebec is the handout junkie desperate for the next dollar transfer fix.
Point two, following the same logic of the article, blows a giant hole in the PQ argument that Quebec can leave Canada but no parts of Quebec can leave its jurisdiction.
This “new” ruling means huge parts of Quebec – the whole resource rich North would vote to stay part of Canada.
The really first Quebec referendum was held in Arctic Quebec and the Inuit there voted 99% in favor of staying with Canada if Quebec ever opted out.
They would do the same today.
Look up the history of Senator Charlie Watt . . . he lead that referendum drive and Pierre Turd-Oh put him on the senate public teat for life as his payoff.
I don’t think the will exists in Quebec for an indy state anymore. The firebrands of yore are now retiring and don’t want to shake their feathered nests too hard. In short, Canada works and everyone knows it. That’s not to say we can’t improve here or there…
“Canadians must be reminded that the secessionist movement in Quebec, while in abeyance, remains the most serious threat to national unity.”
Yup, that’s why Chretien’s Liberal regime gave the PQ some of that Adscam money they stole, cuz the Liberals have to make sure the Quebec secesionist movement doesn’t disappear or they can’t perrenially sell themselves as the Champions of Canadian Unity(TM). (ignore all the times the Liberals used Alberta as their whipping boy) “I don’t think the will exists in Quebec for an indy state anymore.”
~PhilM
I agree.
It looks like the Ottawa Citzen’s Michael Behiels does too and wants to help resurrect Quebec seccessionism and the flagging fortunes of the LPC along with it.
Since a nation is a political and not a biological entity, then it is a human construct. That constuction can be undone.
The question then becomes – who wants such an ‘undoing’? And an even more insidious question is: Why?
First, many of us would welcome such a break; we are tired of the adolescent nature of Quebec, always threatening to run away unless we give them this, and then that, and then more of this and…
We are tired of the adolescent demands for more; more money, more special deals and dispensations, more special treatment, more, more… while providing almost nothing to the rest of the country.
We are tired of the bilingual demands; we are tired of the demands for political power.
So- we would, many of us, welcome their departure.
The question is, apart from we tired folks outside of Quebec, who in Quebec wants this? And it’s a minority, a smaller and smaller crowd, many old guard, who are almost all utopian ideologues without a practical bone in them.
Almost all living off some government job, almost all without any fiscal responsibility, no awareness of debt, obligations to debt, all of them living under the assumption that IF ONLY Ottawa wouldn’t take any federal income tax, THEN, Quebec would be wealthy beyond all utopian ideals. They ignore that Quebec receives, federally, far more than its tax base.
And they have no intention of reducing their socialist welfare state, their bloated bureaucracy, their dirt cheap university fees available only to Quebecers and any and all French foreigners.
But the majority of Quebecers are not interested in separation or utopia. They are primarily interested just in ‘doing OK’. In Quebec, with its huge black market economy, its normal way of doing business by hiding just about all income…you can get by quite nicely.
So – it’s only a few ideologues, living in a utopian cocoon, tenured and pensioned by their govt jobs…
Unlike the author of this piece who must fulfil his university contract by writing about such things, I think that there is no hope or fear of Quebec leaving.
“Canadians have every reason to worry.”
I wish that the writer had elaborated on this comment. Why should the average Canadian worry? I’m not worried in the least at the thought of Quebec going on their merry way and I’m willing to bet that I’m part of the vast majority of Canadians.
Perhaps I should wring my hands and moan over the prospect of Quebec separation … but my heart’s just not in it.
I think the rest of Canada should just kick quebec out of OUR Canada. Problem solved. BTW quebec don’t forget to turn in your Canadian Passports ,get your own currency and take your share of the national debt on your way out the door.
I agree with anonymous coward at August 30, 2010 1:47 PM – Quebec has been beating up on the ROC for as long as I can remember; they have had their hands out and their hearts hardened against all other Canadians. They take with both hands and spew vitrol from their lips at the ROC for our attempts to make them ‘happy’. The lot parked in Quebec seem to be the unhappiest people in North America (with the possible excetion of the ‘Katrina miserables’); as the direct result of their own attitude, what they can expect from me is no opposition to their speedy departure from Canada. I won’t buy them a suitcase but I will help them pack!
If Quebec ever did secede, Ontario and other provinces could expect a pile of anglophones to come streaming out.
But I agree with Fred, Quebec is addicted to the public teat. They aren’t going anywhere.
A “nation” is very much a biological entity, and cannot be arbitratily created or easily destroyed. A “state” is purely political and exists as a matter of convenience and will. Both Canada and Quebec are states, not nations. Their future is entirely negotiable.
Quebec’s right to unilateral secession is of course entirely inconsistent with the law as recognized by the Supreme Court. That right is nonetheless very real, simply as a matter of the facts on the ground. If Quebec genuinely decided, as a matter of general and heartfelt consensus, that it would henceforth be an independent soveriegn state, there would be no one in any position to do anything at all about it. The only position from which anything could be done is inside Quebec, where ex hypothesi nobody intends to do anything, excpet perhaps fight to defend it.
Of course, that could only happen in a Quebec substantially different than the one we actually have. As it is, if the French Canadians ever decided to establish their own sovereign independent national state, they would also have no difficulty doing so, and for the same reason: they and they alone live on their territory, and nobody else is in any position to determine what happens there. However, their territory does not correspond with the boundaries of Quebec, and the boundaries of the new state would have to be established. Most of the earlier separatists understood this and welcomed the prospect of bloodshed, expecting such sacrifice to seal the loyalty of the people to the new state. Whether anyone in the current generation is so clear sighted, I do not know.
Of course, it won’t happen. The French Canadian nation is dying off, and while it lasts it has everything it wants: the right to live exclusively in French at somebody else’s expense. There have been times when independence would have exactly suited the interests of French Canadian nationalism, but the conditions of those times are gone. By the time they return, if indeed they ever do, there won’t be a French Canadian nation left to take advantage of them.
Twenty years ago I cared, now I don’t know why.
If they were serious about secession it would already be done.
This issue deserves to be mocked and dismissed.
During the last refeereudum, the Quebec Dairy Farmers Union was +++ pro separation, really Pro-Go. Understand Quebec “owns” 37% of all dairy quota/production in Canada right now.
When it was explained to them that they would lose this quota, they refused to accept reality and insisted to their members they could be a sovereign nation and keep their historical quota in what would be a “foreign” country. Go figure, have your cream and our butter as well.
Like too Stuck on Stupid to even attempt to have a discussion with those brain-deaders.
It is this kind of nonsense that pervades the dialogue in Quebec during the build-up to voting in each referendum. Way too much exuberant stupidity rather than a careful calculation or costs, reality and consequences.
Canadians don’t need to worry, that is just more MSM/academic elite blather to frighten the natives.
Your average Canadien/Canadian is worried about their family’s well being, not some trumped up ‘political trollop’ trotted out every now and then to get the population restless.
This is simply the separatist ‘pimp my ride’ pitch to get everyone in a lather.
Ooooh, ooooh the ‘lingua franca’ of the ROC is different than my tribe; expel them!
Oh please, a more obvious attempt at divide and conquer couldn’t be made since the Plains of Abraham monument marking Wolfe’s death has been knocked down no less the 4 times.
About the only time this becomes a lightning rod is those drunken revelries on Sainte Jean Baptiste Day.
This is hardly going to stop Canadians from pouring maple syrup on their breakfast pancakes, nor from drinking coffee to assuage their hangover.
Have a nice day!
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
I would like the National Assembly of Quebec put forth a “shotgun” post-nup agreement. If Quebec puts forward a serious document that would allow non-tariff transport passage where required and a reasonable distribution of the national debt as well as a reasonable distribution of nation assets such as the military, then I would certainly vote for Quebec to be expelled from Canada. They should not be forced to stay if they are unhappy and they should not be able to put the rest of Canada at a serious financial disadvantage if they go. Au revior and bon chance!
Westerner’s are like the dog that was trained to accept a beating for food…he came for his beating everyday!
If the west only knew the scope and cost of this ongoing Quebec scam they would give Quebec the boot.
Saddly, we would rather go to the mall!!
I should add and stress this fact…why should we be mad a Quebec…it has worked for them…we have ourselves to blame for allowing it.
Canada would be a very different and better place if it weren’t for Quebec.
It may not be too late. So … Quebec, grow a pair and get the hell out of our country so we can grow into an adult nation who is finally rid of our major whiny babies.
And good luck with your economy.
“we have ourselves to blame for allowing it.”
If by “we” you mean Ontario, that bastion of Liberal power, then yes I agree.
As an Albertan, I disagree.
Besides, we now have much bigger fish to fry, we have the worlds greatest whiners … the Muslims.
They want us all to succeed from life.
A couple of points:
First, I really don’t see a legal way that Canada could prevent a really determined Quebec population from seceding with a unilateral declaration of independence. Nor should we want to.
But what we can do, and should do, legally or otherwise, although I believe we could find a legal framework for it, is to make it 100% clear that an independent Quebec shall be comprised of only of that territory that comprised Lower Canada at the time of Confederation. We probably cannot force an independent Quebec to assume its fair share of the national debt, but we can damn well take back that land we gifted to the Province. Consider it a swap: northern Quebec for the debt. As a practical matter, I’d be willing to negotiate a little on the boundaries of both entities in the interest of avoiding large-scale population transfers and the consequent toll in human misery. But we, meaning Canada, need to have something to take to the bargaining table.
Second, whenever the subject of Quebec arises, there is a tendency, both here and in the lamestream media, to fall into the trap of referring to Quebec and the “rest of Canada.” Can we please put that to rest? It’s a case of the tail wagging the dog, now. Let’s drop that antiquated term, which actually helps the secessionists to frame the debate, and go with “Greater Canada.” Because in any way you choose to measure, Canada, exclusive of Quebec, is much more important than Quebec alone.
uh … that would be secede from life.
Quebec – Canada’s answer to Greece…..
The special treatment for Quebec should end. If they choose to leave, I will wish them well.
It must be August, another columnist/Liberal fool just hit the bottom of the grease barrel and had to scrape the sides.
Quebec is going to separate from Canada in the middle of the biggest, baddest economic meltdown since 1932?
Sure.
What the hell is he going to write about next week, disco?
“Canadians have every reason to worry.”
No they don’t.
“Twenty years ago I cared, now I don’t know why.”
Because we’ve moved on, the demographics and economics have shifted and we’re just not interested anymore.
That silly Ottawa Citizen piece sounded not so much like a threat as it did a desperate cry for attention.
Why did the liberals decide to give the separatists the $1.95 per vote?
Are there a lot of federally funded separatist movements around the world?
Did the liberals need a viable separatist party to bolster their claim that they were the only national party that could keep Canada together and the Reform party was too regional to do that?
It’s probably easier getting work as a separatist dragon slayer if there is a nice fat separatist dragon to slay.
Before the $1.95 per vote subsidy the Bloc was broke and withering away.
I guess it was just good luck for the liberals that the $1.95 per vote subsidy came along just in time to fatten up the separatist movement.
And yeah, if I had a vote quebec would be gone.
So should we get rid of the $1.95 per vote subsidy or take a page out of the liberals book and raise it to $20.00 per vote?
Hmmmmmmmm.
Might be time for a poll.
Just another example of a “post-colonial” mashup, forget the cultural and linguistic barriers between the actual people involved, we’ll just force a political union on them and they’ll figure it out, it is the “age of reason” after all.
A large chunk of the world has gone down this road, and most places when it comes unglued the violence is pretty spectacular.
I’d rather skip that part, if that’s all right.
Quebec, if you really want to go, don’t let the door hit your ass, on your way out.
jcl you read my mind on this.
“Quebec – Canada’s answer to Greece…..
fat civil service, control of immigration, water, hydro …
They ain’t goin’ anywhere. Even if they did I wouldn’t care.
Umm, can someone please define “threat”. I mean, there is the threat that Megan Fox could kidnap me and ravage me for days or there is the threat that my wife could find out and beat the livin’ tar out of me. Quebec seperating would be much more like the former.
“Canadian have every reason to be worried”???? Worried for what? Getting rid of this pestilence of corruption and immorality, this parasite, that has thrust itself upon us and robbed us blind in the process. Some here are saying that there is nothing to be worried about as Quebec will never seperate. I say the exact opposite; worry that they never will seperate and we will never be rid of them
They’re threatening to stay?
Please God, no.
ebt – sorry, but there’s no evidence for a ‘nation’ being a biological entity. Does it have a metabolism? Can it reproduce itself? No? Then it is not a biological organism but a human construct.
Quebec doesn’t stand a chance economically to go it alone without the money they suck out of the west in equalization payments. They’d be as bankrupt as Greece inside a year. The big question next time is NOT do you want to go but rather do you want them to stay?
Before anyone gets their hopes too high about Quebec leaving, remember that their only way out is continental drift.
“Jacques Parizeau and Gilles Duceppe are convinced that the Canadian Supreme Court’s 1998 ruling in the reference regarding the secession of Quebec is supportive of their goal. They remain firmly convinced that a unilateral declaration of independence by the Quebec National Assembly is legal under international law and now argue that the ICJ’s decision supports their position.”
Of course they’re right.
Same thing applies to the various Indian nations in Quebec too.
Jacques Parizeau and Gilles Duceppe just might be surprised by how many ways Quebec can be partitioned using that same ICJ ruling.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, eh Jacques and Gilles?
Would it be too much to ask you all to remember that 50%+ of the Quebec voters chose to remain within Canada ?
The venom spewed in this and other similar threads over the years is quite disheartening. As a lifelong Montreal, I consider my allegiance to be entirely to my home country of Canada.
“Would it be too much to ask you all to remember that 50%+ of the Quebec voters chose to remain within Canada?”
I was trying to forget that sorrowful day. Thanks a lot for reminding me.
Would it be too much to ask you all to remember that 50%+ of the Quebec voters chose to remain within Canada?
I was watching the vote in the Rattlesnake Saloon in N.W. Calgary and hoping that the Quebecois would win.
I’m sick of Alberta being held hostage by Quebec interests.
I remember the vote for the Charlottetown Accord.
Albertans voted against it because the Federal PC’s wanted to give the farm away to Quebec.
Quebec voted against it because they didn’t think they were getting enough!
Greedy bastids.
What was the excuse for Quebec not voting for the CPC in the last election?
Harper pulled $20 million funding for the arts after giving Quebec $2 Billion extra grease and Quebec votes for more money by electing the Bloc, which only exists to squeeze more money from the paying provinces.(Alberta)
As a “lifelong” Montrealer, Boopy, you should be well aware that the LPC spent 10+ tax dollars for every 1 spent by the separatists and the “NO” side only won because so many Ontario Liberals rigged the vote by getting Quebec mail boxes and getting ballots even though they weren’t Quebec residents.
We have the blight of Multiculturalism thanks to Quebec.
When it comes to Quebec, my Give-A-Crap Meter is pegged at -10.
So you think 50% of Quebecers voting to remain at the Canadian taxpayer trough is a good thing?
This Albertan doesn’t agree.
What has Quebec done for Canada lately or even during my lifetime?
Start by requiring that all political parties receiving federal status benefits must run candidates in 90% of the national ridings.
All votes on separation referendums should be open to every voter in Canada.
This scare article from the Ottawa Citizen makes me laugh.
Quebec will not leave for the reasons stated in some of the earlier comments , however , if they did leave , Quebec culture and language would no longer be protected and financed by “The Rest of Canada” , and as such would likely be overwhelmed by English within a few years.
Who would be their major trading partners … Canada and USA and the language of commerce would be ENGLISH. France as a trading partner … another laugh as the French think Quebecois French is a foreign language.
Oz…as an “Albertan” you are the problem. Like an alcoholic you are refusing to acknowledge the obvious. Alberta could have…had the most reasons to…and could afford too lead the West out of this CON-federation. But refusing to consider it…all of Canada has suffered.
As for Ontario, they too needed the threat to seem real in order to rape the colonial west. Remember the NEP!
I agree with most comments here…there is nothing…nothing at all,that is sacred, about boundaries drawn by men!
If Quebec, as she claims, has been like the abused spouse that complains, but never leaves. Then she should be encouraged to leave and end the pain for all parties involved!
“Jacques Parizeau and Gilles Duceppe are convinced that the Canadian Supreme Court’s 1998 ruling in the reference regarding the secession of Quebec is supportive of their goal. They remain firmly convinced that a unilateral declaration of independence by the Quebec National Assembly is legal under international law and now argue that the ICJ’s decision supports their position.”
Absolutely! Couldn’t agree more. And don’t forget to take YOUR share of the federal debt,and give back all our military gear in Quebec. Best of luck with your new Country.
Oh,and we’ll take Josh Gorges back from the Canadiens,too.
Just imagine,a Country where our government would no longer have to pander to Quebec,and WE wouldn’t have to make those equalization payments anymore,except to the Maritimes,and Manitoba,and Ontario.
Hm,maybe it’d be easier if the West separated.
If the Czechs and Slovaks can have an amicable split, so can we. I have no desire to ‘punish’ Quebec or ‘beat’ them in a breakup. I like Quebec and Quebeckers, and there are profound family, commercial and political ties that will always remain. But surely we can negotiate a satisfactory outcome that releases both Canada and Quebec from political arrangements we have outgrown. I have long wanted people from all across Canada to begin an informal but serious constitutional convention that does Quebec separation and a lot more – no lawyers and no politicians, until they are needed – to begin the business of redefining Canada. More power to cities? Bunch the maritimes together into a more powerful and integrated unit, while maintaining regional identities? Same for the west? We could do this!
Quebec won’t go anywhere . . . two reasons
First . . .they are too addicted to the $Billions in transfer payments every year. Without this giant subsidy the truth of the weakness of Quebec’s moribund economy would be obvious and people wouldn’t be happy when their schools and hospitals had to close. Canada is the Funding Deaker, Quebec is the handout junkie desperate for the next dollar transfer fix.
Point two, following the same logic of the article, blows a giant hole in the PQ argument that Quebec can leave Canada but no parts of Quebec can leave its jurisdiction.
This “new” ruling means huge parts of Quebec – the whole resource rich North would vote to stay part of Canada.
The really first Quebec referendum was held in Arctic Quebec and the Inuit there voted 99% in favor of staying with Canada if Quebec ever opted out.
They would do the same today.
Look up the history of Senator Charlie Watt . . . he lead that referendum drive and Pierre Turd-Oh put him on the senate public teat for life as his payoff.
I don’t think the will exists in Quebec for an indy state anymore. The firebrands of yore are now retiring and don’t want to shake their feathered nests too hard. In short, Canada works and everyone knows it. That’s not to say we can’t improve here or there…
“Canadians must be reminded that the secessionist movement in Quebec, while in abeyance, remains the most serious threat to national unity.”
Yup, that’s why Chretien’s Liberal regime gave the PQ some of that Adscam money they stole, cuz the Liberals have to make sure the Quebec secesionist movement doesn’t disappear or they can’t perrenially sell themselves as the Champions of Canadian Unity(TM).
(ignore all the times the Liberals used Alberta as their whipping boy)
“I don’t think the will exists in Quebec for an indy state anymore.”
~PhilM
I agree.
It looks like the Ottawa Citzen’s Michael Behiels does too and wants to help resurrect Quebec seccessionism and the flagging fortunes of the LPC along with it.
Since a nation is a political and not a biological entity, then it is a human construct. That constuction can be undone.
The question then becomes – who wants such an ‘undoing’? And an even more insidious question is: Why?
First, many of us would welcome such a break; we are tired of the adolescent nature of Quebec, always threatening to run away unless we give them this, and then that, and then more of this and…
We are tired of the adolescent demands for more; more money, more special deals and dispensations, more special treatment, more, more… while providing almost nothing to the rest of the country.
We are tired of the bilingual demands; we are tired of the demands for political power.
So- we would, many of us, welcome their departure.
The question is, apart from we tired folks outside of Quebec, who in Quebec wants this? And it’s a minority, a smaller and smaller crowd, many old guard, who are almost all utopian ideologues without a practical bone in them.
Almost all living off some government job, almost all without any fiscal responsibility, no awareness of debt, obligations to debt, all of them living under the assumption that IF ONLY Ottawa wouldn’t take any federal income tax, THEN, Quebec would be wealthy beyond all utopian ideals. They ignore that Quebec receives, federally, far more than its tax base.
And they have no intention of reducing their socialist welfare state, their bloated bureaucracy, their dirt cheap university fees available only to Quebecers and any and all French foreigners.
But the majority of Quebecers are not interested in separation or utopia. They are primarily interested just in ‘doing OK’. In Quebec, with its huge black market economy, its normal way of doing business by hiding just about all income…you can get by quite nicely.
So – it’s only a few ideologues, living in a utopian cocoon, tenured and pensioned by their govt jobs…
Unlike the author of this piece who must fulfil his university contract by writing about such things, I think that there is no hope or fear of Quebec leaving.
“Canadians have every reason to worry.”
I wish that the writer had elaborated on this comment. Why should the average Canadian worry? I’m not worried in the least at the thought of Quebec going on their merry way and I’m willing to bet that I’m part of the vast majority of Canadians.
Perhaps I should wring my hands and moan over the prospect of Quebec separation … but my heart’s just not in it.
I think the rest of Canada should just kick quebec out of OUR Canada. Problem solved. BTW quebec don’t forget to turn in your Canadian Passports ,get your own currency and take your share of the national debt on your way out the door.
I agree with anonymous coward at August 30, 2010 1:47 PM – Quebec has been beating up on the ROC for as long as I can remember; they have had their hands out and their hearts hardened against all other Canadians. They take with both hands and spew vitrol from their lips at the ROC for our attempts to make them ‘happy’. The lot parked in Quebec seem to be the unhappiest people in North America (with the possible excetion of the ‘Katrina miserables’); as the direct result of their own attitude, what they can expect from me is no opposition to their speedy departure from Canada. I won’t buy them a suitcase but I will help them pack!
If Quebec ever did secede, Ontario and other provinces could expect a pile of anglophones to come streaming out.
But I agree with Fred, Quebec is addicted to the public teat. They aren’t going anywhere.
A “nation” is very much a biological entity, and cannot be arbitratily created or easily destroyed. A “state” is purely political and exists as a matter of convenience and will. Both Canada and Quebec are states, not nations. Their future is entirely negotiable.
Quebec’s right to unilateral secession is of course entirely inconsistent with the law as recognized by the Supreme Court. That right is nonetheless very real, simply as a matter of the facts on the ground. If Quebec genuinely decided, as a matter of general and heartfelt consensus, that it would henceforth be an independent soveriegn state, there would be no one in any position to do anything at all about it. The only position from which anything could be done is inside Quebec, where ex hypothesi nobody intends to do anything, excpet perhaps fight to defend it.
Of course, that could only happen in a Quebec substantially different than the one we actually have. As it is, if the French Canadians ever decided to establish their own sovereign independent national state, they would also have no difficulty doing so, and for the same reason: they and they alone live on their territory, and nobody else is in any position to determine what happens there. However, their territory does not correspond with the boundaries of Quebec, and the boundaries of the new state would have to be established. Most of the earlier separatists understood this and welcomed the prospect of bloodshed, expecting such sacrifice to seal the loyalty of the people to the new state. Whether anyone in the current generation is so clear sighted, I do not know.
Of course, it won’t happen. The French Canadian nation is dying off, and while it lasts it has everything it wants: the right to live exclusively in French at somebody else’s expense. There have been times when independence would have exactly suited the interests of French Canadian nationalism, but the conditions of those times are gone. By the time they return, if indeed they ever do, there won’t be a French Canadian nation left to take advantage of them.
Twenty years ago I cared, now I don’t know why.
If they were serious about secession it would already be done.
This issue deserves to be mocked and dismissed.
During the last refeereudum, the Quebec Dairy Farmers Union was +++ pro separation, really Pro-Go. Understand Quebec “owns” 37% of all dairy quota/production in Canada right now.
When it was explained to them that they would lose this quota, they refused to accept reality and insisted to their members they could be a sovereign nation and keep their historical quota in what would be a “foreign” country. Go figure, have your cream and our butter as well.
Like too Stuck on Stupid to even attempt to have a discussion with those brain-deaders.
It is this kind of nonsense that pervades the dialogue in Quebec during the build-up to voting in each referendum. Way too much exuberant stupidity rather than a careful calculation or costs, reality and consequences.
Canadians don’t need to worry, that is just more MSM/academic elite blather to frighten the natives.
Your average Canadien/Canadian is worried about their family’s well being, not some trumped up ‘political trollop’ trotted out every now and then to get the population restless.
This is simply the separatist ‘pimp my ride’ pitch to get everyone in a lather.
Ooooh, ooooh the ‘lingua franca’ of the ROC is different than my tribe; expel them!
Oh please, a more obvious attempt at divide and conquer couldn’t be made since the Plains of Abraham monument marking Wolfe’s death has been knocked down no less the 4 times.
About the only time this becomes a lightning rod is those drunken revelries on Sainte Jean Baptiste Day.
This is hardly going to stop Canadians from pouring maple syrup on their breakfast pancakes, nor from drinking coffee to assuage their hangover.
Have a nice day!
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
I would like the National Assembly of Quebec put forth a “shotgun” post-nup agreement. If Quebec puts forward a serious document that would allow non-tariff transport passage where required and a reasonable distribution of the national debt as well as a reasonable distribution of nation assets such as the military, then I would certainly vote for Quebec to be expelled from Canada. They should not be forced to stay if they are unhappy and they should not be able to put the rest of Canada at a serious financial disadvantage if they go. Au revior and bon chance!
Westerner’s are like the dog that was trained to accept a beating for food…he came for his beating everyday!
If the west only knew the scope and cost of this ongoing Quebec scam they would give Quebec the boot.
Saddly, we would rather go to the mall!!
I should add and stress this fact…why should we be mad a Quebec…it has worked for them…we have ourselves to blame for allowing it.
Canada would be a very different and better place if it weren’t for Quebec.
It may not be too late. So … Quebec, grow a pair and get the hell out of our country so we can grow into an adult nation who is finally rid of our major whiny babies.
And good luck with your economy.
“we have ourselves to blame for allowing it.”
If by “we” you mean Ontario, that bastion of Liberal power, then yes I agree.
As an Albertan, I disagree.
Besides, we now have much bigger fish to fry, we have the worlds greatest whiners … the Muslims.
They want us all to succeed from life.
A couple of points:
First, I really don’t see a legal way that Canada could prevent a really determined Quebec population from seceding with a unilateral declaration of independence. Nor should we want to.
But what we can do, and should do, legally or otherwise, although I believe we could find a legal framework for it, is to make it 100% clear that an independent Quebec shall be comprised of only of that territory that comprised Lower Canada at the time of Confederation. We probably cannot force an independent Quebec to assume its fair share of the national debt, but we can damn well take back that land we gifted to the Province. Consider it a swap: northern Quebec for the debt. As a practical matter, I’d be willing to negotiate a little on the boundaries of both entities in the interest of avoiding large-scale population transfers and the consequent toll in human misery. But we, meaning Canada, need to have something to take to the bargaining table.
Second, whenever the subject of Quebec arises, there is a tendency, both here and in the lamestream media, to fall into the trap of referring to Quebec and the “rest of Canada.” Can we please put that to rest? It’s a case of the tail wagging the dog, now. Let’s drop that antiquated term, which actually helps the secessionists to frame the debate, and go with “Greater Canada.” Because in any way you choose to measure, Canada, exclusive of Quebec, is much more important than Quebec alone.
uh … that would be secede from life.
Quebec – Canada’s answer to Greece…..
The special treatment for Quebec should end. If they choose to leave, I will wish them well.
It must be August, another columnist/Liberal fool just hit the bottom of the grease barrel and had to scrape the sides.
Quebec is going to separate from Canada in the middle of the biggest, baddest economic meltdown since 1932?
Sure.
What the hell is he going to write about next week, disco?
“Canadians have every reason to worry.”
No they don’t.
“Twenty years ago I cared, now I don’t know why.”
Because we’ve moved on, the demographics and economics have shifted and we’re just not interested anymore.
That silly Ottawa Citizen piece sounded not so much like a threat as it did a desperate cry for attention.
Why did the liberals decide to give the separatists the $1.95 per vote?
Are there a lot of federally funded separatist movements around the world?
Did the liberals need a viable separatist party to bolster their claim that they were the only national party that could keep Canada together and the Reform party was too regional to do that?
It’s probably easier getting work as a separatist dragon slayer if there is a nice fat separatist dragon to slay.
Before the $1.95 per vote subsidy the Bloc was broke and withering away.
I guess it was just good luck for the liberals that the $1.95 per vote subsidy came along just in time to fatten up the separatist movement.
And yeah, if I had a vote quebec would be gone.
So should we get rid of the $1.95 per vote subsidy or take a page out of the liberals book and raise it to $20.00 per vote?
Hmmmmmmmm.
Might be time for a poll.
Just another example of a “post-colonial” mashup, forget the cultural and linguistic barriers between the actual people involved, we’ll just force a political union on them and they’ll figure it out, it is the “age of reason” after all.
A large chunk of the world has gone down this road, and most places when it comes unglued the violence is pretty spectacular.
I’d rather skip that part, if that’s all right.
Quebec, if you really want to go, don’t let the door hit your ass, on your way out.
jcl you read my mind on this.
“Quebec – Canada’s answer to Greece…..
fat civil service, control of immigration, water, hydro …
They ain’t goin’ anywhere. Even if they did I wouldn’t care.
Umm, can someone please define “threat”. I mean, there is the threat that Megan Fox could kidnap me and ravage me for days or there is the threat that my wife could find out and beat the livin’ tar out of me. Quebec seperating would be much more like the former.
“Canadian have every reason to be worried”???? Worried for what? Getting rid of this pestilence of corruption and immorality, this parasite, that has thrust itself upon us and robbed us blind in the process. Some here are saying that there is nothing to be worried about as Quebec will never seperate. I say the exact opposite; worry that they never will seperate and we will never be rid of them
They’re threatening to stay?
Please God, no.
ebt – sorry, but there’s no evidence for a ‘nation’ being a biological entity. Does it have a metabolism? Can it reproduce itself? No? Then it is not a biological organism but a human construct.
Quebec doesn’t stand a chance economically to go it alone without the money they suck out of the west in equalization payments. They’d be as bankrupt as Greece inside a year. The big question next time is NOT do you want to go but rather do you want them to stay?
Before anyone gets their hopes too high about Quebec leaving, remember that their only way out is continental drift.
“Jacques Parizeau and Gilles Duceppe are convinced that the Canadian Supreme Court’s 1998 ruling in the reference regarding the secession of Quebec is supportive of their goal. They remain firmly convinced that a unilateral declaration of independence by the Quebec National Assembly is legal under international law and now argue that the ICJ’s decision supports their position.”
Of course they’re right.
Same thing applies to the various Indian nations in Quebec too.
Jacques Parizeau and Gilles Duceppe just might be surprised by how many ways Quebec can be partitioned using that same ICJ ruling.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, eh Jacques and Gilles?
Would it be too much to ask you all to remember that 50%+ of the Quebec voters chose to remain within Canada ?
The venom spewed in this and other similar threads over the years is quite disheartening. As a lifelong Montreal, I consider my allegiance to be entirely to my home country of Canada.
“Would it be too much to ask you all to remember that 50%+ of the Quebec voters chose to remain within Canada?”
I was trying to forget that sorrowful day. Thanks a lot for reminding me.
Would it be too much to ask you all to remember that 50%+ of the Quebec voters chose to remain within Canada?
I was watching the vote in the Rattlesnake Saloon in N.W. Calgary and hoping that the Quebecois would win.
I’m sick of Alberta being held hostage by Quebec interests.
I remember the vote for the Charlottetown Accord.
Albertans voted against it because the Federal PC’s wanted to give the farm away to Quebec.
Quebec voted against it because they didn’t think they were getting enough!
Greedy bastids.
What was the excuse for Quebec not voting for the CPC in the last election?
Harper pulled $20 million funding for the arts after giving Quebec $2 Billion extra grease and Quebec votes for more money by electing the Bloc, which only exists to squeeze more money from the paying provinces.(Alberta)
As a “lifelong” Montrealer, Boopy, you should be well aware that the LPC spent 10+ tax dollars for every 1 spent by the separatists and the “NO” side only won because so many Ontario Liberals rigged the vote by getting Quebec mail boxes and getting ballots even though they weren’t Quebec residents.
We have the blight of Multiculturalism thanks to Quebec.
When it comes to Quebec, my Give-A-Crap Meter is pegged at -10.
So you think 50% of Quebecers voting to remain at the Canadian taxpayer trough is a good thing?
This Albertan doesn’t agree.
What has Quebec done for Canada lately or even during my lifetime?
Start by requiring that all political parties receiving federal status benefits must run candidates in 90% of the national ridings.
All votes on separation referendums should be open to every voter in Canada.
This scare article from the Ottawa Citizen makes me laugh.
Quebec will not leave for the reasons stated in some of the earlier comments , however , if they did leave , Quebec culture and language would no longer be protected and financed by “The Rest of Canada” , and as such would likely be overwhelmed by English within a few years.
Who would be their major trading partners … Canada and USA and the language of commerce would be ENGLISH. France as a trading partner … another laugh as the French think Quebecois French is a foreign language.
Oz…as an “Albertan” you are the problem. Like an alcoholic you are refusing to acknowledge the obvious. Alberta could have…had the most reasons to…and could afford too lead the West out of this CON-federation. But refusing to consider it…all of Canada has suffered.
As for Ontario, they too needed the threat to seem real in order to rape the colonial west. Remember the NEP!
I agree with most comments here…there is nothing…nothing at all,that is sacred, about boundaries drawn by men!
If Quebec, as she claims, has been like the abused spouse that complains, but never leaves. Then she should be encouraged to leave and end the pain for all parties involved!