Back country sledding is great fun, but this year the event ended badly. Godspeed to the rescue crews.
77 Replies to “Big Iron Shootout 2009”
Most of these comments focus on 2 sides:either the “brave” and “fun loving” or the “stupid”. How do these “fun loving adventurers” or “selfish fathers” hope to explain all this to the children who are now left fatherless. What impact will this have on their lives? What about the wives who are now left to pick up all the pieces. What about the school, the community and the extended families who will do anything in their power to help these people? No helicopter or rescue team will be available to rescue them. At what point do parents think about their children first? If you play Russian Roulette with your own life…..do you also have the right to play this game with your children?
You endanger your children each and every time you strap them in a car and venture out on the road, Marvin.
Don’t be ridiculous.
Most of these comments focus on 2 sides:either the “brave” and “fun loving” or the “stupid”. How do these “fun loving adventurers” or “selfish fathers” hope to explain all this to the children who are now left fatherless. What impact will this have on their lives? What about the wives who are now left to pick up all the pieces. What about the school, the community and the extended families who will do anything in their power to help these people? No helicopter or rescue team will be available to rescue them. At what point do parents think about their children first? If you play Russian Roulette with your own life…..do you also have the right to play this game with your children?
The children were nowhere near the avalanche area.
Louise- I have a problem with people filing WCB, or insurance claims, after breaking an ankle, playing basketball. I absolutely guarantee, more of my money gets spent on that, than all extreme sports, combined.
As for paid rescue workers, they’re on salary. At least for one day, we aren’t paying them to sit on their public service asses.
I was informed, this afternoon, that one of the injured is the brother of my ex-employee(and friend). The two men who died were friends, and co-workers of the injured man. One of the men got stuck near the top of the hill, and the others came to help him. The combined weight may have triggered the avalanche, but it’s totally pointless to assign blame. The man who survived, did so by sheer strength and will.
Get off your high horses Louise, Marvin, Lew, et al. Shit happens, in the real world. Everyone seemed to celebrate the recent olynpic accomplishments, which are achieved by lots of individual risks, that we all pay for. Do you want all that to end? Should we all just wrap ourselves in cotton batting, to save society the cost of a few rescue workers?
dp,the Olympics eventually pay for themselves. And besides that, every possible and reasonable safety measure is taken by Olympic planners, and there is security all over the place. There may be a risk to individual athletes, but there is no huge risk with the ability to wipe out an entire team (well, except in Munich, but security has improved since then). These folks specifically defied the advice that was issued. Totally different situation.
Mark Peters @ 3:43, bingo! Except for your second last paragraph. People do have to make a living, and sometimes the work they do is very dangerous. But even employers will get busted if they force their workers to go out in extremely dangerous conditions, unless it’s absolutely necessary, such as rescue missions on the stormy seas.
If the mission is to rescue some eccentric billionaire who is trying to fly around the world in a balloon, then sorry, no public money should be spent on that.
However, your 3:48 comment is b. s. No one in their right mind should strap their kid into a car and head out on the highway in a blizzard, unless there was some dire emergency. The point is, that there was an advisory issued to stay off of that mountain.
Of course there are risks associated with normal living. The risks we are discussing here have nothing to do with day to day life. I live in the country with a full complement of wildlife including wolves, bears and, just recently, cougers. Living in proximity with these potentiously dangerous animals is day to day living. We are talking about people who go in search of danger, relish it and sometimes die for it.
I’m not concerned with the cost in financial terms but in terms of the suffering of the families of these enlightened souls who feel that the freedom to do foolish things is their right no matter who gets hurt by it. Something that the adrenaline junkies are staying away from is commenting on the families of the deceased. How about your own family. How would your death, if it should happen to you, affect them? Is that of no importance?
Or is thinking of them not the macho thing to do?
You go on living your life to the fullest coping with life’s inherent dangers PLUS the dangers of your chosen recreation. To me that seems like double jeopardy.
I might add too, that employers whose employees have to perform high risk jobs do pay much higher workmen comp fees. The same principle should apply here. The higher the risk, the greater the price.
Louise- I really hope you get lost, while hiking, and die. I really do.
Marvin- May a grizzly bear eat your children. And don’t bitch to the government to hunt it down. It was your decision to live in their territory.
I’m done arguing with dickheads.
If I’m idiotic enough to go hiking in an area where I’m not familiar and where those in authority have warned against it, then, by all means, I take that risk upon myself, and if anyone is fool enough to try and find me, I should pay for the costs of the search and rescue. Period. I don’t expect big brother to cover the costs of my stupidity.
Funny, there’s a discussion thread at a CBC article about this same thing, and more of the commenters are of my opinion. CBC of all places! And here at SDA so many of you are suggesting the big brother should save stupid people from the logical consequences of their own behavior. Who woulda thunk it?
I changed my mind Louise. I hope I die, slowly, of ass cancer.
Get off your high horse for a second. Snowmobilers tend to be a group of people who work hard and earn above average income. Enjoying the outdoors and for some, getting an adrenaline rush might be one of the ways they get through there long work days, which by the way mean we pay way to much taxes to support you and your commie liberal bs social causes. So lots of those “public” funds are paid for by us sledders in the first place. Secondly, a good junk of the rescue’s happened because of the preparedness of the sledders themselves. If this was a group of hiking yuppies like yourself ,my guess is that the casualty rate would be way higher. Another counter to your “cost of rescue”. When you got hiking you what, buy a set of snow shoes? Sledders spend money on hotels, meals, and trail maintenance not to mention $5,000 to $30,000 on a sled and $20,000 to $50,000 on a truck to tow that sled around oh ya and $2,000 to $15,000 on a trailer. So buy the time its all said and done, the contribution to the tax base and economic activity in the country has more than covered the costs of a rescue crews for a few weeks of the year. I guess the difference is sledders wont’ be crying that they weren’t rescued by someone when $hit hits the fan, but if you’re a hiker from a certain place in this country than its everyone’s fault but your own.
As far as charging people for bringing their kids. Are all you people f’ing nuts? How about we start charging all of the lazy ass parents who let their kids turn into fatties. Why should I have to pay for the costs associated with that – do you see how this can spiral out of control? We live in a free society and people should mind their own damn business.
Much of what you say is true BUT… not one of you pro extreme sports enthusiasts are addressing the issue of the affects of your possible death on your families. This has been my argument from the beginning. Does your pleasure over-ride the feelings of your wives, children and other family members whose live will be irrivocably changed by your death?
I have nothing against sledders who do it responsibly and they definately do add much to the Canadian economy but there is a moral issue here that you people refuse to deal with.
Not one of you people has told me how your families feel about your flirting with death. Give me a reasonable answer and I will drop this whole unsavory subject. I’ve said before that I deal with many snowmobilers every winter and generally they are some of the nicest people you could ever meet but there are a selfish few who feel that whatever they want is OK because they want it, moral issues be damned.
And this money that you keep harping about that you pay in taxes and whatever for your own rescue, could it not be used for a better purpose like maybe Cancer research or something of that nature?
Dan Davidoff interviewed by Rob Breakenridge. Breakenridge asks the very same questions about who should pay. Davidoff admits to irresponsible behavior on the part of extreme snowmobilers
dp
I changed my mind Louise. I hope I die, slowly, of ass cancer.
====================================
Right.
Marvin said:
“And this money that you keep harping about that you pay in taxes and whatever for your own rescue, could it not be used for a better purpose like maybe Cancer research or something of that nature?”
On the other hand we could take all the money currently spent treating cancer in smokers, junk food eaters, and sun-tanners, and put it towards search & rescue ops.
There are all kinds of situations people get themselves into (despite warnings) that society helps them out of. If you’re really worried about taxes going towards helping others in self-induced trouble you you could definitely find bigger problems than snowmobiling. I wager that backcountry S&R costs are a small drop in a rather large bucket.
You’ll notice some of the links to the right of that photo with headlines as follows:
BC plans snowmobile crackdown after deadly slide
Charges possible in B.C. avalanche
Snowmobilers ignored danger, B.C.’s top law officer charges
This ain’t over yet, folks. At the end we’ll have more nanny statism, in British Columbia, at least, if not in Alberta. We’ll also have a massive bill for B.C.ers to cover the cost of not just the rescue operation but the (possibly criminal) investigation resulting from this and the cost of the care of the people who were or are currently in hospital. (God willing, they will be released soon with no long aftercare costs due to the physical or emotional damage caused by this catastrophe and will be able to return to work and contribute taxes rather than consuming them.) All of that because a bunch of guys think it’s cool to get the adrenalin rush in an area which they were warned to stay out of. Grow up little boys. There’s more at stake than just your need for thrills and chills, here. Someone has to pay for your stupidity, and unfortunately, that money will have to come from a whole lot more people who weren’t as foolhardy as you were.
There’s a saying among scuba divers. “There are old divers, and bold divers, but there are no old, bold divers.”
From http://www.thestar.com
Revelstoke Mayor David Raven said the city did not sanction the Big Iron Shootout, which takes place outside the city boundary in public parkland.
But the municipality and the province will have to shell out nearly $1 million for the massive rescue operation that included dozens of search and rescue personnel, emergency services volunteers, helicopters and at least four hospitals.
Annoyingmouse @ 5:39, at least you’ve identified the correct group with which these snowmobilers should be lumped in with. I’ll give you that much. Are you suggesting extreme snowmobiling is an addiction? Perhaps you could start up a 12 step group along the same lines as those that exist for obese people and smokers who are trying to kick the habit.
I mention money one time and someone jumps on that right away. I have repeatedly asked if the extreme sports enthusiasts families agree with their husbands/fathers flirting with death. No one has deemed that important enough for comment. Come on guys, you have the guts to fly halfway up an almost verticle mountainside, don’t you have the guts to ask your family if you should?
The wives of the 2 avalanche victims don’t appear to be to happy with the organizers of this ill-fated event.
My heart goes out to them. No one should have to go through something like this because of an ego trip. Think about it, is this the future you want for your children?
Ok Anonymous, don’t give the rescue fund to Cancer research if that is a problem. How about Parkinson’s, MS or Crohns Disease. Or are there life style problems with them, too?
And just so you know, I think the organizers of the Shoot-out should cough up the money to pay for the rescue operations since they were responsible for getting the people to that spot at that time.
Don’t hold your breath, Marvin. Some of these boys seem to subscribe to the “me, me, me, me, me, me” philosophy of life that says: “I want, therefore I am entitled and you are obligated.”
Thanks Louise, unfortunately that appears to be the case.
im a father of 2 boys,one 2 years old and the other 1, im a back country rider, along with my wife, my brother and his wife, my mother and father, we all ride, my nefphew 7 years old was riding this year in the hills with us on his own sled, we as parents are not make choices for are children, maybe we should leave them home playing video games getting fat, becoming one of thoses kids who live at home for the rest of their lives, who dont know what life is about, the parents at revelstoke wernt climbing hills with their children, they were spectators, just like spectators at a rodeo,olympics,auto races, or a soccer game, snowmobiling in general is one of the biggest family oreintated sports out there,so yes are wives and families agree what we do in the hills, they might not climb hills but we do, maybe try and explain how you might tell your famliy that dad died driving to work and had a head on collision trying to pay for their education, or their hockey gear, dying is a part of life, sometimes it just comes sonner then everyone expects…..
I just found this on a forum here in Saskatchewan. I cannot argue with anything this lady says including that the survivors of the avalanche could be called heros. My argument is that there would have been no need for their heroism if this event would not have taken place in what everyone agrees was a very dangerous time and place.
(Quote)
It’s time to honor the heros.
> Written by Susie Rainsberry
> March 15, 2010
>
> It’s been several days now since the tragic avalanche at Turbo Hill. The
> latest reports are that two are deceased and three are still
> hospitalized. The media is also reporting that there were 200
> snowmobilers at Turbo at the time of the slide. The avalanche is reported
> to have been up to 150 meters wide and 10 meters deep. That, my friends,
> is a BIG avalanche!
>
> I’d like to put some perspective on this – a snowmobiler’s perspective.
> Apparently no one in the media is a snowmobiler or is concerned about
> taking the time to gather the facts – not just the bad, but the good as
> well. And there is good to be heard in this story. If you ask a
> snowmobiler – they’d be able to tell you what that is. But either the
> media isn’t asking, or has heard it and doesn’t feel that the facts are
> newsworthy.
>
> However, I feel these facts are the MOST newsworthy topic of this entire
> tragedy.
>
> Saturday afternoon, following the close of the events for the annual Big
> Iron Shootout, a large group of snowmobilers headed to Turbo Bowl to make
> a run at the hill. As the riders lined up at the bottom of the hill, the
> mass of spectators parked their sleds and prepared to enjoy the show. As
> one of the sleds turned out towards the top, the hillside gave way.
> Thundering down the mountain it came – taking sleds and riders with it.
> This powerful act of nature happens in a split second. There is no time
> to react.
>
> The time to react is as soon as it stops. And react – with speed and
> knowledge – in the midst of chaos – is what those sledders did. There
> were no typical first responders to this catastrophe in the immediate
> moments following the avalanche. Only snowmobilers. Those same
> snowmobilers that the media is painting with a broad stroke as crazy,
> ignorant, thrill-seekers.
>
> As a back country snowmobiler myself, I can tell you that ignorant is not
> a word that I would use to describe those survivors. I would call them
> heroes! And justly so. In the midst of what may have been the most
> terrifying minutes of their lives, they turned their avalanche beacons to
> search, they got out their probes and their shovels and they started
> rescue protocols IMMEDIATELY – likely while in a state of shock. They dug
> out those that were buried, they triaged the injured, they administered
> first aid, they built fires to keep them warm until the helicopters
> arrived. These people were heroic!! Without their quick and educated
> responses, many more people would have died.
>
> I am angered that the media is so eager to report this story that they
> are being so disgraceful to the victims and survivors. These people need
> support and compassion. They do not need to be stereotyped and degraded
> in the media or by anyone else. Shame on you!! Didn’t your mother teach
> you better manners than that?
>
> I’m not done though – there is way more information about snowmobilers in
> respect to the Big Iron Shootout and Revelstoke that the media hasn’t
> covered yet. While they gleefully report that this is an unsanctioned
> (I’ll get to that in a moment) event drew 200 sledders (despite the grave
> warnings from the avalanche center), what they aren’t telling you is that
> there are likely double that number of snowmobilers who DIDN’T attend
> this year’s event – because of the conditions. Snowmobilers who DID heed
> the warnings.
>
> As I was reading the snowmobiling forums and Facebook on Saturday
> evening, the same story continued to repeat itself – people concerned
> about friends who generally attend the BIS, those friends checking in and
> saying they didn’t go this year, or they were in the area but avoided
> Turbo Bowl because of the warnings and the conditions they were already
> aware of. You see, back country snowmobilers are often in the back
> country two or more days a week and already have first hand insight to
> the conditions.
>
> Regarding the word being used in almost every story – unsanctioned. It is
> true that there is no sanctioning organization for this event. Not the
> town of Revelstoke nor the Revelstoke Snowmobile Club. However, just
> because it’s not sanctioned does not mean that it is illegal.
>
> Snowmobilers often gather in large groups to ride with friends who are
> generally dispersed all over Canada and the United States. I personally
> rode with a group of 30 riders at an “unsanctioned” event in Wyoming.
> Oops! I also rode at another “unsanctioned” event, ummm, better make that
> two, here in Oregon. Rest assured, I am not a criminal nor are any of the
> snowmobilers that I know.
>
> The internet keeps the snowmobiling community connected. There are 1,000s
> of unsanctioned events that simply start by someone saying, “hey – who
> wants to ride this weekend?” Next thing ya know, word spreads about how
> much fun everyone had and it snowballs from there (pun intended). They
> grow into these annual events.”same date next year?”
>
> So, here’s what happens next – the date is set. Motel rooms are reserved.
> Trucks and sleds are fueled. Vacation time is requested. Then
> individuals, families and social groups all head into a remote mountain
> town. They buy. They buy. They buy a lot!! They spend money – because
> they can.
>
> It is with great sadness that I have to dispel the myth that mountain
> snowmobilers are a bunch of rednecks. All you really need to do is add up
> the costs to outfit an individual – much less an entire family – with a
> sled and the proper safety gear. Since this article is really targeted at
> those individuals who are not mountain sledders, I will point out that
> everything – got that?.EVERYTHING, on your person and on your sled is
> part and parcel of your survival gear. From your gloves, to your coat, to
> the sunglasses in your backpack. Trying to save a dime in buying a coat
> is really not advised, when that coat may be the only thing protecting
> you from the elements if you have to stay overnight. With all that said,
> here’s a run down of estimated costs of the primary accessories needed to
> sled in the back country.
>
> . Sled $6,000-$14,000 USD
> . Clothes (including base, mid and outer layers – top & bottom)
> $800-$1,200 USD
> . Boots/gloves/helmet $245-$800 USD
> . Backpack (non-avy) $60-$120 USD
> . Backpack (avy) $1,000-$1,200 USD
> . Body armor (tek vest, knee pads, etc) $60-$300 USD
> . Beacon, probe, shovel $250-$400 USD
>
> This doesn’t include a lot of items, such as matches, radios, compass,
> fire starter, flashlight, and the list goes on, and the costs add up. It
> would be GREATLY appreciated if the media would STOP perpetuating the
> myths that sledders are ignorant, beer-swilling, couch-potatoes. Because
> it’s simply not true.
>
> The fact is that mountain sledders do not fit a stereotypical mold. They
> come from all areas of the business world.from CEOs to millworkers. They
> have families and they are single. They are old and they are young. They
> are world-class athletes and they are physically handicapped. They
> survive corporate down-sizing, cancer, divorces, etc..just like everyone
> else.
>
> The thing that binds us together is our great love for the back country
> in the winter. We are modern day adventurers. We want to get out there –
> in the mountains. We want to explore and play and wonder at the beauty.
> We love the snow! When it covers the trees, when it flies up in our
> faces, when it gives us a playground of vast proportions. That is when we
> are in heaven. That is when our souls glow.
>
> We are not anything that the media will have tried to make us out to be
> in the last couple of days. We are so much more. It’s truly a pity that
> the media isn’t interested in shining any light on the truth.
>
> The truth is – the Turbo Bowl avy survivors are HEROS. We in the
> snowmobiling communities – far and wide – are praying for the full
> recovery of those injured, in body and in spirit. And finally, with great
> compassion and sympathy we extend our heartfelt condolences to the
> families of those who perished.
>
> I wrote this and I am Susie Rainsberry, Oregon resident, back-country
> snowmobiler. I provide free and complete liberty for others to share and
> disperse this message. The time has come to stop the slandering of good
> individuals just because they ride snowmobiles.
Most of these comments focus on 2 sides:either the “brave” and “fun loving” or the “stupid”. How do these “fun loving adventurers” or “selfish fathers” hope to explain all this to the children who are now left fatherless. What impact will this have on their lives? What about the wives who are now left to pick up all the pieces. What about the school, the community and the extended families who will do anything in their power to help these people? No helicopter or rescue team will be available to rescue them. At what point do parents think about their children first? If you play Russian Roulette with your own life…..do you also have the right to play this game with your children?
You endanger your children each and every time you strap them in a car and venture out on the road, Marvin.
Don’t be ridiculous.
Most of these comments focus on 2 sides:either the “brave” and “fun loving” or the “stupid”. How do these “fun loving adventurers” or “selfish fathers” hope to explain all this to the children who are now left fatherless. What impact will this have on their lives? What about the wives who are now left to pick up all the pieces. What about the school, the community and the extended families who will do anything in their power to help these people? No helicopter or rescue team will be available to rescue them. At what point do parents think about their children first? If you play Russian Roulette with your own life…..do you also have the right to play this game with your children?
The children were nowhere near the avalanche area.
Louise- I have a problem with people filing WCB, or insurance claims, after breaking an ankle, playing basketball. I absolutely guarantee, more of my money gets spent on that, than all extreme sports, combined.
As for paid rescue workers, they’re on salary. At least for one day, we aren’t paying them to sit on their public service asses.
I was informed, this afternoon, that one of the injured is the brother of my ex-employee(and friend). The two men who died were friends, and co-workers of the injured man. One of the men got stuck near the top of the hill, and the others came to help him. The combined weight may have triggered the avalanche, but it’s totally pointless to assign blame. The man who survived, did so by sheer strength and will.
Get off your high horses Louise, Marvin, Lew, et al. Shit happens, in the real world. Everyone seemed to celebrate the recent olynpic accomplishments, which are achieved by lots of individual risks, that we all pay for. Do you want all that to end? Should we all just wrap ourselves in cotton batting, to save society the cost of a few rescue workers?
dp,the Olympics eventually pay for themselves. And besides that, every possible and reasonable safety measure is taken by Olympic planners, and there is security all over the place. There may be a risk to individual athletes, but there is no huge risk with the ability to wipe out an entire team (well, except in Munich, but security has improved since then). These folks specifically defied the advice that was issued. Totally different situation.
Mark Peters @ 3:43, bingo! Except for your second last paragraph. People do have to make a living, and sometimes the work they do is very dangerous. But even employers will get busted if they force their workers to go out in extremely dangerous conditions, unless it’s absolutely necessary, such as rescue missions on the stormy seas.
If the mission is to rescue some eccentric billionaire who is trying to fly around the world in a balloon, then sorry, no public money should be spent on that.
However, your 3:48 comment is b. s. No one in their right mind should strap their kid into a car and head out on the highway in a blizzard, unless there was some dire emergency. The point is, that there was an advisory issued to stay off of that mountain.
Of course there are risks associated with normal living. The risks we are discussing here have nothing to do with day to day life. I live in the country with a full complement of wildlife including wolves, bears and, just recently, cougers. Living in proximity with these potentiously dangerous animals is day to day living. We are talking about people who go in search of danger, relish it and sometimes die for it.
I’m not concerned with the cost in financial terms but in terms of the suffering of the families of these enlightened souls who feel that the freedom to do foolish things is their right no matter who gets hurt by it. Something that the adrenaline junkies are staying away from is commenting on the families of the deceased. How about your own family. How would your death, if it should happen to you, affect them? Is that of no importance?
Or is thinking of them not the macho thing to do?
You go on living your life to the fullest coping with life’s inherent dangers PLUS the dangers of your chosen recreation. To me that seems like double jeopardy.
I might add too, that employers whose employees have to perform high risk jobs do pay much higher workmen comp fees. The same principle should apply here. The higher the risk, the greater the price.
Louise- I really hope you get lost, while hiking, and die. I really do.
Marvin- May a grizzly bear eat your children. And don’t bitch to the government to hunt it down. It was your decision to live in their territory.
I’m done arguing with dickheads.
If I’m idiotic enough to go hiking in an area where I’m not familiar and where those in authority have warned against it, then, by all means, I take that risk upon myself, and if anyone is fool enough to try and find me, I should pay for the costs of the search and rescue. Period. I don’t expect big brother to cover the costs of my stupidity.
Funny, there’s a discussion thread at a CBC article about this same thing, and more of the commenters are of my opinion. CBC of all places! And here at SDA so many of you are suggesting the big brother should save stupid people from the logical consequences of their own behavior. Who woulda thunk it?
I changed my mind Louise. I hope I die, slowly, of ass cancer.
Get off your high horse for a second. Snowmobilers tend to be a group of people who work hard and earn above average income. Enjoying the outdoors and for some, getting an adrenaline rush might be one of the ways they get through there long work days, which by the way mean we pay way to much taxes to support you and your commie liberal bs social causes. So lots of those “public” funds are paid for by us sledders in the first place. Secondly, a good junk of the rescue’s happened because of the preparedness of the sledders themselves. If this was a group of hiking yuppies like yourself ,my guess is that the casualty rate would be way higher. Another counter to your “cost of rescue”. When you got hiking you what, buy a set of snow shoes? Sledders spend money on hotels, meals, and trail maintenance not to mention $5,000 to $30,000 on a sled and $20,000 to $50,000 on a truck to tow that sled around oh ya and $2,000 to $15,000 on a trailer. So buy the time its all said and done, the contribution to the tax base and economic activity in the country has more than covered the costs of a rescue crews for a few weeks of the year. I guess the difference is sledders wont’ be crying that they weren’t rescued by someone when $hit hits the fan, but if you’re a hiker from a certain place in this country than its everyone’s fault but your own.
As far as charging people for bringing their kids. Are all you people f’ing nuts? How about we start charging all of the lazy ass parents who let their kids turn into fatties. Why should I have to pay for the costs associated with that – do you see how this can spiral out of control? We live in a free society and people should mind their own damn business.
Much of what you say is true BUT… not one of you pro extreme sports enthusiasts are addressing the issue of the affects of your possible death on your families. This has been my argument from the beginning. Does your pleasure over-ride the feelings of your wives, children and other family members whose live will be irrivocably changed by your death?
I have nothing against sledders who do it responsibly and they definately do add much to the Canadian economy but there is a moral issue here that you people refuse to deal with.
Not one of you people has told me how your families feel about your flirting with death. Give me a reasonable answer and I will drop this whole unsavory subject. I’ve said before that I deal with many snowmobilers every winter and generally they are some of the nicest people you could ever meet but there are a selfish few who feel that whatever they want is OK because they want it, moral issues be damned.
And this money that you keep harping about that you pay in taxes and whatever for your own rescue, could it not be used for a better purpose like maybe Cancer research or something of that nature?
Dan Davidoff interviewed by Rob Breakenridge. Breakenridge asks the very same questions about who should pay. Davidoff admits to irresponsible behavior on the part of extreme snowmobilers
dp
I changed my mind Louise. I hope I die, slowly, of ass cancer.
====================================
Right.
Sometimes a photo really is worth a thousand words, maybe more.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/travel/snowmobile+legislation+Stelmach/2689888/story.html
Marvin said:
“And this money that you keep harping about that you pay in taxes and whatever for your own rescue, could it not be used for a better purpose like maybe Cancer research or something of that nature?”
On the other hand we could take all the money currently spent treating cancer in smokers, junk food eaters, and sun-tanners, and put it towards search & rescue ops.
There are all kinds of situations people get themselves into (despite warnings) that society helps them out of. If you’re really worried about taxes going towards helping others in self-induced trouble you you could definitely find bigger problems than snowmobiling. I wager that backcountry S&R costs are a small drop in a rather large bucket.
You’ll notice some of the links to the right of that photo with headlines as follows:
BC plans snowmobile crackdown after deadly slide
Charges possible in B.C. avalanche
Snowmobilers ignored danger, B.C.’s top law officer charges
This ain’t over yet, folks. At the end we’ll have more nanny statism, in British Columbia, at least, if not in Alberta. We’ll also have a massive bill for B.C.ers to cover the cost of not just the rescue operation but the (possibly criminal) investigation resulting from this and the cost of the care of the people who were or are currently in hospital. (God willing, they will be released soon with no long aftercare costs due to the physical or emotional damage caused by this catastrophe and will be able to return to work and contribute taxes rather than consuming them.) All of that because a bunch of guys think it’s cool to get the adrenalin rush in an area which they were warned to stay out of. Grow up little boys. There’s more at stake than just your need for thrills and chills, here. Someone has to pay for your stupidity, and unfortunately, that money will have to come from a whole lot more people who weren’t as foolhardy as you were.
There’s a saying among scuba divers. “There are old divers, and bold divers, but there are no old, bold divers.”
From http://www.thestar.com
Revelstoke Mayor David Raven said the city did not sanction the Big Iron Shootout, which takes place outside the city boundary in public parkland.
But the municipality and the province will have to shell out nearly $1 million for the massive rescue operation that included dozens of search and rescue personnel, emergency services volunteers, helicopters and at least four hospitals.
Annoyingmouse @ 5:39, at least you’ve identified the correct group with which these snowmobilers should be lumped in with. I’ll give you that much. Are you suggesting extreme snowmobiling is an addiction? Perhaps you could start up a 12 step group along the same lines as those that exist for obese people and smokers who are trying to kick the habit.
I mention money one time and someone jumps on that right away. I have repeatedly asked if the extreme sports enthusiasts families agree with their husbands/fathers flirting with death. No one has deemed that important enough for comment. Come on guys, you have the guts to fly halfway up an almost verticle mountainside, don’t you have the guts to ask your family if you should?
The wives of the 2 avalanche victims don’t appear to be to happy with the organizers of this ill-fated event.
My heart goes out to them. No one should have to go through something like this because of an ego trip. Think about it, is this the future you want for your children?
Ok Anonymous, don’t give the rescue fund to Cancer research if that is a problem. How about Parkinson’s, MS or Crohns Disease. Or are there life style problems with them, too?
And just so you know, I think the organizers of the Shoot-out should cough up the money to pay for the rescue operations since they were responsible for getting the people to that spot at that time.
Don’t hold your breath, Marvin. Some of these boys seem to subscribe to the “me, me, me, me, me, me” philosophy of life that says: “I want, therefore I am entitled and you are obligated.”
Thanks Louise, unfortunately that appears to be the case.
im a father of 2 boys,one 2 years old and the other 1, im a back country rider, along with my wife, my brother and his wife, my mother and father, we all ride, my nefphew 7 years old was riding this year in the hills with us on his own sled, we as parents are not make choices for are children, maybe we should leave them home playing video games getting fat, becoming one of thoses kids who live at home for the rest of their lives, who dont know what life is about, the parents at revelstoke wernt climbing hills with their children, they were spectators, just like spectators at a rodeo,olympics,auto races, or a soccer game, snowmobiling in general is one of the biggest family oreintated sports out there,so yes are wives and families agree what we do in the hills, they might not climb hills but we do, maybe try and explain how you might tell your famliy that dad died driving to work and had a head on collision trying to pay for their education, or their hockey gear, dying is a part of life, sometimes it just comes sonner then everyone expects…..
I just found this on a forum here in Saskatchewan. I cannot argue with anything this lady says including that the survivors of the avalanche could be called heros. My argument is that there would have been no need for their heroism if this event would not have taken place in what everyone agrees was a very dangerous time and place.
(Quote)
It’s time to honor the heros.
> Written by Susie Rainsberry
> March 15, 2010
>
> It’s been several days now since the tragic avalanche at Turbo Hill. The
> latest reports are that two are deceased and three are still
> hospitalized. The media is also reporting that there were 200
> snowmobilers at Turbo at the time of the slide. The avalanche is reported
> to have been up to 150 meters wide and 10 meters deep. That, my friends,
> is a BIG avalanche!
>
> I’d like to put some perspective on this – a snowmobiler’s perspective.
> Apparently no one in the media is a snowmobiler or is concerned about
> taking the time to gather the facts – not just the bad, but the good as
> well. And there is good to be heard in this story. If you ask a
> snowmobiler – they’d be able to tell you what that is. But either the
> media isn’t asking, or has heard it and doesn’t feel that the facts are
> newsworthy.
>
> However, I feel these facts are the MOST newsworthy topic of this entire
> tragedy.
>
> Saturday afternoon, following the close of the events for the annual Big
> Iron Shootout, a large group of snowmobilers headed to Turbo Bowl to make
> a run at the hill. As the riders lined up at the bottom of the hill, the
> mass of spectators parked their sleds and prepared to enjoy the show. As
> one of the sleds turned out towards the top, the hillside gave way.
> Thundering down the mountain it came – taking sleds and riders with it.
> This powerful act of nature happens in a split second. There is no time
> to react.
>
> The time to react is as soon as it stops. And react – with speed and
> knowledge – in the midst of chaos – is what those sledders did. There
> were no typical first responders to this catastrophe in the immediate
> moments following the avalanche. Only snowmobilers. Those same
> snowmobilers that the media is painting with a broad stroke as crazy,
> ignorant, thrill-seekers.
>
> As a back country snowmobiler myself, I can tell you that ignorant is not
> a word that I would use to describe those survivors. I would call them
> heroes! And justly so. In the midst of what may have been the most
> terrifying minutes of their lives, they turned their avalanche beacons to
> search, they got out their probes and their shovels and they started
> rescue protocols IMMEDIATELY – likely while in a state of shock. They dug
> out those that were buried, they triaged the injured, they administered
> first aid, they built fires to keep them warm until the helicopters
> arrived. These people were heroic!! Without their quick and educated
> responses, many more people would have died.
>
> I am angered that the media is so eager to report this story that they
> are being so disgraceful to the victims and survivors. These people need
> support and compassion. They do not need to be stereotyped and degraded
> in the media or by anyone else. Shame on you!! Didn’t your mother teach
> you better manners than that?
>
> I’m not done though – there is way more information about snowmobilers in
> respect to the Big Iron Shootout and Revelstoke that the media hasn’t
> covered yet. While they gleefully report that this is an unsanctioned
> (I’ll get to that in a moment) event drew 200 sledders (despite the grave
> warnings from the avalanche center), what they aren’t telling you is that
> there are likely double that number of snowmobilers who DIDN’T attend
> this year’s event – because of the conditions. Snowmobilers who DID heed
> the warnings.
>
> As I was reading the snowmobiling forums and Facebook on Saturday
> evening, the same story continued to repeat itself – people concerned
> about friends who generally attend the BIS, those friends checking in and
> saying they didn’t go this year, or they were in the area but avoided
> Turbo Bowl because of the warnings and the conditions they were already
> aware of. You see, back country snowmobilers are often in the back
> country two or more days a week and already have first hand insight to
> the conditions.
>
> Regarding the word being used in almost every story – unsanctioned. It is
> true that there is no sanctioning organization for this event. Not the
> town of Revelstoke nor the Revelstoke Snowmobile Club. However, just
> because it’s not sanctioned does not mean that it is illegal.
>
> Snowmobilers often gather in large groups to ride with friends who are
> generally dispersed all over Canada and the United States. I personally
> rode with a group of 30 riders at an “unsanctioned” event in Wyoming.
> Oops! I also rode at another “unsanctioned” event, ummm, better make that
> two, here in Oregon. Rest assured, I am not a criminal nor are any of the
> snowmobilers that I know.
>
> The internet keeps the snowmobiling community connected. There are 1,000s
> of unsanctioned events that simply start by someone saying, “hey – who
> wants to ride this weekend?” Next thing ya know, word spreads about how
> much fun everyone had and it snowballs from there (pun intended). They
> grow into these annual events.”same date next year?”
>
> So, here’s what happens next – the date is set. Motel rooms are reserved.
> Trucks and sleds are fueled. Vacation time is requested. Then
> individuals, families and social groups all head into a remote mountain
> town. They buy. They buy. They buy a lot!! They spend money – because
> they can.
>
> It is with great sadness that I have to dispel the myth that mountain
> snowmobilers are a bunch of rednecks. All you really need to do is add up
> the costs to outfit an individual – much less an entire family – with a
> sled and the proper safety gear. Since this article is really targeted at
> those individuals who are not mountain sledders, I will point out that
> everything – got that?.EVERYTHING, on your person and on your sled is
> part and parcel of your survival gear. From your gloves, to your coat, to
> the sunglasses in your backpack. Trying to save a dime in buying a coat
> is really not advised, when that coat may be the only thing protecting
> you from the elements if you have to stay overnight. With all that said,
> here’s a run down of estimated costs of the primary accessories needed to
> sled in the back country.
>
> . Sled $6,000-$14,000 USD
> . Clothes (including base, mid and outer layers – top & bottom)
> $800-$1,200 USD
> . Boots/gloves/helmet $245-$800 USD
> . Backpack (non-avy) $60-$120 USD
> . Backpack (avy) $1,000-$1,200 USD
> . Body armor (tek vest, knee pads, etc) $60-$300 USD
> . Beacon, probe, shovel $250-$400 USD
>
> This doesn’t include a lot of items, such as matches, radios, compass,
> fire starter, flashlight, and the list goes on, and the costs add up. It
> would be GREATLY appreciated if the media would STOP perpetuating the
> myths that sledders are ignorant, beer-swilling, couch-potatoes. Because
> it’s simply not true.
>
> The fact is that mountain sledders do not fit a stereotypical mold. They
> come from all areas of the business world.from CEOs to millworkers. They
> have families and they are single. They are old and they are young. They
> are world-class athletes and they are physically handicapped. They
> survive corporate down-sizing, cancer, divorces, etc..just like everyone
> else.
>
> The thing that binds us together is our great love for the back country
> in the winter. We are modern day adventurers. We want to get out there –
> in the mountains. We want to explore and play and wonder at the beauty.
> We love the snow! When it covers the trees, when it flies up in our
> faces, when it gives us a playground of vast proportions. That is when we
> are in heaven. That is when our souls glow.
>
> We are not anything that the media will have tried to make us out to be
> in the last couple of days. We are so much more. It’s truly a pity that
> the media isn’t interested in shining any light on the truth.
>
> The truth is – the Turbo Bowl avy survivors are HEROS. We in the
> snowmobiling communities – far and wide – are praying for the full
> recovery of those injured, in body and in spirit. And finally, with great
> compassion and sympathy we extend our heartfelt condolences to the
> families of those who perished.
>
> I wrote this and I am Susie Rainsberry, Oregon resident, back-country
> snowmobiler. I provide free and complete liberty for others to share and
> disperse this message. The time has come to stop the slandering of good
> individuals just because they ride snowmobiles.